Trinity college educated surgeon encourages trainee clinicians to accept sex offers

Tarzana2

volchitsa wrote: »

I think she has proven that she is making a difference, by getting so much reaction to something that all career women learn sooner or later, but that some had to discover the hard way.

If she had simply said for the Nth time that any woman to whom this happened should complain and to hell with the consequences, does anyone really think we would have heard about this at all? Of course not.

It's too early to know if her stance will make an difference. The reaction will die down and she hasn't offered any solutions.

humbert

Augmerson wrote: »

The way she has said it, it shocked me at first, but when I thought about it, it's a smart thing to do, and really puts an emphasis on how bad this is.

That's extremely kind. At best I'd consider it jaded cynicism.

StudentDad

Where has the respect for integrity gone? This article smacks of the old adage, 'power corrupts ...' etc. Just because you want something doesn't mean you're entitled to it. I have experienced something like this in social situations over the years, where I have been propositioned and had to deal with the shock and horror on the part of a couple of women who didn't like my polite, 'sorry I'm married' response. The attitude seemed to be, 'how bloody dare you say no!'. Luckily none of these were women who had any leverage over me.

SD

gozunda

volchitsa wrote: »

Maybe you could keep to the topic a little? This isn't about what parents can or should do. It's about whether young women are likely to be penalized in a traditionally male, high-testosterone career structure if they put in a complaint about advances made to them by their superiors.

If the truth is that they are - and is there any reason to doubt this doctor? - them as adults, these young women are entitled to know that, and not be lied to and allowed to imagine that they will find much support from others around them.
In my opinion.

Wtf? So yeah they 'know' their lecturer or senior house physician is a sexual predator. Now what? How are they to handle that knowing that I'd they complain they will get bias. Are you suggesting they meekly agree. Like fook they should. I did not say it was anything 'what parents would do' BUT what would you suggest to your daughter should do in such a situation? Or are you finding this a bit a la fifty shades of grey?

Rather than attempting to criticise how about you actually come out with some possible solutions? That would be a lot more useful ..

kerry4sam

The culture of advocating silence is common-place and not just in relation to sexual advances. The first time I spoke out in one major organisation here in Ireland about a document issue; they changed procedures straight-after but those who I named for being involved refused to speak or acknowledge me thereafter, even when working the same duties. I endured unbearable silence for reporting wrong-doing and even experienced worse (you can read here).

When I spoke out about other issues I was pulled aside by this one female and ‘encouraged’ to ssssh/stay silent as it was upsetting members that these issues were being raised. Now I only wish I had spoken out sooner tbh but I was afraid to! The silence almost killed me inside and affected so many others which is when I spoke out. I long for the day that she & I meet for words will be had when we do.
Silence kills people. Advocating silence in cases of severe wrong-doing is morally wrong at very least. Speaking out does harm you further though in more ways than one also so what’s the alternative.

Now, in the same organisation as myself you can read about our current Garda Commissioner O Sullivan right here and some of her own experiences. Again, male dominated environment.

Now here in this instance, she is being brutally honest with saying the truth and for that she should be commended. Will we ever see a day where you can actually speak out about wrong-doing and not actually suffer further? I know many others who have stayed quiet and do suffer in silence and suffer they do. That’s just not on! That should not be acceptable but it is tolerated and deemed acceptable by this organisation that I can speak of to name one.

I don’t think here she was advocating you perform these acts; but just informing you of what WILL happen should you refuse or should you even highlight the issue. That in itself is something positive, but does not go far enough imo.

Hope if anyone out there reading this thread experiences similar, that they do find a positive outlet for a solution.
kerry4sam

The Rape of Lucretia

My name is URL wrote: »

It's good to hear a surgeon at least mention it because it is a big problem in all areas of medicine.

Seems to be. But what other workplace provides "on call rooms" (yeh, yeh, I've watched a fair bit of Grey's Anatomy and know what they are for) ? Isnt that just asking for problems ?

conorh91

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Same story, different paper - yes, I know it's the Mail

It's not quite the same story, since this one makes clear how she finds the situation so frustrating.

Which is a different to the implication that she is making little of this problem.

My name is URL

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Seems to be. But what other workplace provides "on call rooms" (yeh, yeh, I've watched a fair bit of Grey's Anatomy and know what they are for) ? Isnt that just asking for problems ?

I dunno if they really exist here, especially not the ones depicted on TV, but even if they did, why would it be asking for trouble?

It's a place for people to crash between shifts or on quiet periods. It's no different from a rec room in any other place of work. You shouldn't expect to be propositioned just for using the facility!

K4t

steddyeddy wrote: »

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. She is in a position of power and instead of making any efforts to change the system she is recommending people to go along with it. It's disgusting IMHO.

Agree with this. She has a chance now to speak out about this apparent common practice and perhaps bring about change, but instead advises those going through the process to simply comply. It's a similar mentality to the one surrounding junior doctor's hours in Ireland - we had to do it, now it's your turn.

I think the tone is being misread here. She's not advocating silence or encouraging compliance per se, she's wryly detailing the consequences if you don't. It's not the same as telling people to put up and shut up.

Shrap

K4t wrote: »

Agree with this. She has a chance now to speak out about this apparent common practice and perhaps bring about change, but instead advises those going through the process to simply comply. It's a similar mentality to the one surrounding junior doctor's hours in Ireland - we had to do it, now it's your turn.

What would you suggest she advise young interns to do? I think the point she's making (loud and clear to my mind) is that there is nothing she can suggest they do that actually works, beyond sardonically (and cynically perhaps) suggesting that the least damage to their careers/lives may be to follow through with the sexual advance.

What's so interesting about this to me is that people are having a go at her for not being able to solve the problem. I think coming out and saying something as shocking as "My advice? Give him the blow-job or your career is ruined" gets people talking about this revolting issue so much more than the usual platitudes of "Go straight to HR and make a complaint, we're all behind you", and similar BS.

volchitsa

Shrap wrote: »

What would you suggest she advise young interns to do? I think the point she's making (loud and clear to my mind) is that there is nothing she can suggest they do that actually works, beyond sardonically (and cynically perhaps) suggesting that the least damage to their careers/lives may be to follow through with the sexual advance.

What's so interesting about this to me is that people are having a go at her for not being able to solve the problem. I think coming out and saying something as shocking as "My advice? Give him the blow-job or your career is ruined" gets people talking about this revolting issue so much more than the usual platitudes of "Go straight to HR and make a complaint, we're all behind you", and similar BS.

I think a lot of people, male and female, prefer for everyone not to make waves. And I think the accusation that this is what this woman is doing is in fact an example of that - it's very noticeable that people are so up in arms at this doctor, for saying so frankly what may happen, yet apparently the doctors responsible for destroying her career, including the man who made the advances, have got off scot free and no-one here yelling about how unacceptable it is to say such things has bothered getting even the tiniest bit het-up about abusers not getting punished for their abuse. Why is that, I wonder?

Loafing Oaf

While it's fairly commonplace 'worldly-wise' to advise women subjected to these type of advances not to complain to the authorities but to fend them off as best they can, to actually 'advise' young women to go through with a sexual encounter that they are not enthused about for the sake of their career is extraordinary, and suggests to me that the surgeon is engaging in shock tactics to draw attention to the problem, something reinforced by her use of the term blowjob...

K4t

volchitsa wrote: »

yet apparently the doctors responsible for destroying her career, including the man who made the advances, have got off scot free and no-one here yelling about how unacceptable it is to say such things has bothered getting even the tiniest bit het-up about abusers not getting punished for their abuse. Why is that, I wonder?

I would have thought it was a given that every poster in this thread is appalled at the apparent practice that goes on. Some of us just think the doctor could do more than merely acknowledge the problem and make out that it's better to comply than to try and change it. I'm not up in arms or anything, I just find it sad that this is the best she can do about a seemingly serious issue.

Shrap

K4t wrote: »

I would have thought it was a given that every poster in this thread is appalled at the apparent practice that goes on. Some of us just think the doctor could do more than merely acknowledge the problem and make out that it's better to comply than to try and change it. I'm not up in arms or anything, I just find it sad that this is the best she can do about a seemingly serious issue.

Y'know, I'd say she finds it sad too? I imagine that's the basis for the sardonic statement. And she IS doing something, by getting further in publicising this issue than most do.

vienne86

Germany Engineering wrote: »

Wise words, she'll bring more attention to this issue than the usual generic feminist whinging.

Like everyone else, I was appalled at this headline, so read the article. I hadn't thought of this aspect - maybe you're right. She has certainly made it clear that this is happening.

K4t

Shrap wrote: »

Y'know, I'd say she finds it sad too? I imagine that's the basis for the sardonic statement. And she IS doing something, by getting further in publicising this issue than most do.

Yeah, fair enough point as well. I don't think she needed to go as far as she did though; it sends out a bad signal, but bad attention is better than no attention I suppose.

JuliusCaesar

Her comments follow a warning she issued to young women at Sydney's Parliament House on Friday, during the launch of a book she co-authored on gender equality....
At the launch of 'Pathways to Gender Equality in Australia' on Friday, Dr McMullin advised female trainees to avoid putting themselves in vulnerable situations. But giving in to unwanted sexual advances is easier than pursuing perpetrators, she warned, because the sexism is so entrenched.

Of course she wasn't advocating that women do so, she was just saying it was EASIER to do so.

If she was advocating this, she wouldn't be writing books about gender equality.

mylefttesticle

Sometimes you have to say the opposite to what you mean to get the most exposure and open a debate on it! She is very clever! it worked!