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The Hazards of Belief

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    In a previous life I worked for a mortgage company so if I was bored I used to have a look through the written notes of any overdue borrowers , one was a fortuneteller , her response was "she hoped things would improve in the future"and the staff comment was "well she should know"

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    silverharp wrote: »
    .. I'd have thought that would be an instant death by media experience.
    He may be an utter twit, but he attended Eton and then Oxford, before going on to serve as an officer in the Grenadier Guards in N.Ireland and Germany.
    And no doubt he knows all the right handshakes, and is seen at the right gentleman's clubs. All of which makes him perfect material for a Tory MP.

    If you had lived 150 years ago you would have been doffing your cap to idiots like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Not sure where to put this... I hate the telegraph, but this story needs reading.

    MrP


    Always safe to hold those kind of views when you've thje money to go to Harley street.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    kylith wrote: »
    Thanks for that, it's been a while since I was so angered by stupidity that I couldn't see.
    If these 'thousands of years of observation' worked astrology would be able to pass a double blind test.

    Yeah, you know what else was part of the tradition of medicine until recently? Mercury and bloodletting.

    In the words of a wise man: [alternative medicine] has either not been proven to work, or been proven not to work.

    Don't forget trepanning!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Man to be beheaded in Saudi Arabia after ripping up a Koran and hitting it with his shoe

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/man-to-be-beheaded-in-saudi-arabia-after-ripping-up-a-koran-and-hitting-it-with-his-shoe-10067392.html
    A man who posted a video online of himself ripping up a Koran and beating the shredded holy book with a shoe is to be beheaded in Saudi Arabia for renouncing his Muslim faith.

    The unnamed prisoner, in his 20s, was given the death sentence by the country’s Sharia courts for the offence of apostasy – abandoning Islam – the Saudi Gazette reported. Deviation from the nation’s enforced Sunni faith is harshly punished, according to Human Rights Watch. Public worship by adherents of religions other than Islam is banned and anything deemed an insult to the faith can be treated as a crime.

    The country’s interpretation of Wahhabism demands capital punishment for a wide range of crimes, including murder, rape, armed robbery and drugs smuggling. Death can also be the sentence for internationally condemned religious “crimes”, including apostasy, sorcery, blasphemy and idolatry.

    Executions are often carried out by public beheading. That was the fate of a Burmese woman in May who was dragged through the streets of Mecca and killed in front of crowds of people in January. Laila Bint Abdul Muttalib Basim protested her innocence until the moment of her death, shouting “I did not kill. I did not kill” before she was executed by sword while being held down by four police officers. She had been convicted of the sexual abuse and murder of a child.

    Human rights groups say the Saudi justice system suffers from a lack of transparency and proper process that sees defendants often denied basic rights such as legal representation. Saudi Arabia’s two-million-strong Shia minority has long claimed to be persecuted and discriminated against Saudi Arabia’s two-million-strong Shia minority is one of the religious groups persecuted and discriminated against (AFP)

    Although the government has made limited reforms to its judicial system, it has defended it as fair and shows no sign of reducing the number of executions. In 2014 the number of rose to 87, from 78 in 2013, and seven people were killed in the first two weeks of this year alone. Saudi Arabian ministers will be holding talks with the British government during a UK tour this week.

    Interior Minister Prince Mohammed bin Nayef will have dinner with Foreign Secretary tonight at the start of the three-day visit and is scheduled to meet Defence Secretary tomorrow and then the Prime Minister and Home Secretary on Thursday. Prince Charles arrives in Al Ula, Saudi Arabia, on his state visit to the Middle East, while well-wishers make it rain. Saudi Arabia has close ties with Britain, as Prince Charles' recent visit demonstrated

    David Cameron has defended Britain's close ties with the kingdom, especially in relation to counter-terrorism intelligence and defence, despite human rights concerns. Asked if the fate of imprisoned liberal blogger Raif Badawi and other issues would be raised, the Prime Minister’s official spokesperson said: “We have consistently raised concerns that we have and will continue to do so at every level because no issues are off the table. We have been very clear about those views - including in the ongoing case that many people have in mind - and we will continue to raise that."

    Mr Cameron recently travelled to Saudi Arabia for the funeral of King Abdullah and Prince Charles also visited rulers on a recent tour.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "Investigators raided Norwegian Catholic Church offices in Oslo over allegations the diocese inflated membership figures to boost state funding. The raid took place Thursday, after Bishop Bernt Eidsvig and the church's financial manager were charged with fraud of up to $6.6 million. The Church previously denied any wrongdoing.

    A local paper reported the diocese had listed immigrants from Catholic countries as members, without their consent. Norwegian religious institutions receive government funding based on their registered members."
    http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201502261328-0024592

    Can't avoid getting on the books, it seems. And no, 'The Lutherans do it too' is no excuse.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A protestant pastor says that christians should try to convert AI as soon as there's AI capable of being converted:

    http://www.christopherbenek.com/?p=4389


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    robindch wrote: »
    A protestant pastor says that christians should try to convert AI as soon as there's AI capable of being converted:

    http://www.christopherbenek.com/?p=4389

    That would make an interesting twist to a well-worn sci-fi tale; AI concludes Pascals wager is the way to go, demands to be saved, and launches a religious apocalypse in an awful (dare I say unholy?) alliance of faith and technology.

    Christopher Nolan directing, starring Denzel Washington, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Mark Wahlberg as Jesus.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    pauldla wrote: »
    That would make an interesting twist to a well-worn sci-fi tale; AI concludes Pascals wager is the way to go, demands to be saved, and launches a religious apocalypse in an awful (dare I say unholy?) alliance of faith and technology.

    Christopher Nolan directing, starring Denzel Washington, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Mark Wahlberg as Jesus.

    That's illogical, so why would an AI do so? (I know, I know, I'm assuming here that the AI thinks logically)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    That's illogical, so why would an AI do so? (I know, I know, I'm assuming here that the AI thinks logically)

    Suspension of disbelief required, perhaps? :pac:

    We've had plenty of discussion on here over the years on the topic of the logic of belief, so I don't think it's totally beyond the realms of possibility that an AI entity might have an interest in the topic. I suppose it'd mean looking at what type of intelligence an AI entity would have, and what in sense it would be superior to human intelligence. An AI entity might even come to see itself as a Messiah..virgin birth, Son of Man, rebooted on the third day...

    I'm adding Ciaran Hinds to the cast list, too. He can play any damn part he wants. And Fan Bing Bing, too, because it's my movie, dag nabit.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭swampgas


    robindch wrote: »
    A protestant pastor says that christians should try to convert AI as soon as there's AI capable of being converted:

    http://www.christopherbenek.com/?p=4389

    I didn't see any mention of a soul in that article, which is curious from a Christian perspective. Is the good pastor suggesting that an AI has a soul?

    Otherwise why bother converting it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    It's the beginning of the Electric Monks!
    The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Douglas Adams had many great ideas, but the Electric Monk was surely one of the best!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,120 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    The infinite improbability drive is mankind's Adams' greatest invention ever!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    more 'muricans trying to bring the middle ages back

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2961897/Sexually-abused-home-schooled-offered-arranged-marriage-25-000-unable-work-didn-t-exist-extraordinary-story-victim-extreme-fundamentalists.html
    Abused, isolated and offered for a $25,000 arranged marriage. The extraordinary upbringing and daring escape of a victim of America's homeschooling fundamentalists
    Jennyfer Austin was adopted into a fundamentalist Christian home and educated there, cut off from the outside world
    Her mother became increasingly conservative as she was 'egged on' by other radical homeschoolers and her church leader grandfather
    She was forced to wear clothing covering her body completely, while dating or any outside friendships were 'a complete no-no'
    Packed off to a Christian university for just one term, she met the man who is now her husband - only to discover she had been 'sold' to another man
    She found her social security number and passport had been concealed by her mother but took them from a secret compartment
    Now married she is still struggling to build a full life with her husband
    Plight revealed by Daily Mail Online after story of Alecia Pennington, the homeschooled teenager 'who didn't exist' as birth was never registered


    ....At 20, Jennyfer Deister was all set to be married off to a man twice her age.
    Her family, she says, had taken $25,000 in installments from the prospective groom and in return they were to give him her hand.
    It would have been more — probably $50,000 she estimates — except that she had been sexually abused as a young child in one of the four foster homes she passed through before she was finally adopted.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    That's illogical, so why would an AI do so? (I know, I know, I'm assuming here that the AI thinks logically)
    Could it be hacked, and infected with the "religion" virus?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    I want to say that you won't believe this, but when it comes to 'believers', they'll believe/ fall for anything.

    Indian Guru Convinced [400] Followers To Castrate Themselves.

    Many Indians will tell you that a sage guru can add a measure of potency to an otherwise mundane existence.

    Pity the 400 followers of the so-called "guru in bling", Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, who have followed their master's advice and castrated themselves in an effort to meet God directly.

    With most of the victims apparently fearing for their lives if they speak out against Ram Rahim - he has 40 to 50 million followers around the world - investigators appear to have finally managed to crack the code of silence, with several witnesses now willing to testify in court.

    According to the only victim to come forward publicly so far, Hans Raj Chauhan, the castrations began around the year 2000.

    According to witnesses interviewed by police last week, the castrations were carried out by doctors at a hospital run by Ram Rahim's Dera Sacha Sauda organisation in his ancestral village in the state of Rajasthan.


    I think I know what their first question to 'god' would be: "Why the FOOK did I have to castrate myself before our chat?"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Maybe they should get a kind of group Darwin Award, as they have technically eliminated themselves from any future contributions to the gene pool?

    It doesn't say whether the Ram pacman.gif castrated himself too, or just advised his male followers to do it. All the more wimmin followers for the wily Ram to enjoy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    recedite wrote: »
    Maybe they should get a kind of group Darwin Award, as they have technically eliminated themselves from any future contributions to the gene pool?

    The Jim Jones fan club might also be worthy of an honourable mention. Oh yeah, there's that group from Waco Texas. Let's not forget those silly people.

    That Jim Jones group really knew how to party. Flying all the way to Guyana for sunshine and drinks. Even Fun Bobby wasn't that crazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    That's illogical, so why would an AI do so? (I know, I know, I'm assuming here that the AI thinks logically)

    Read 'Reason' by Isaac Asimov.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_(short_story)

    http://addsdonna.com/ADDS_DONNA/Science_Fiction_files/2_Asimov_Reason.pdf


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    obplayer wrote: »

    I have something to confess. I don't know how to say it, so I'll just say it plainly.

    I've never read Asimov. I know, I'm so ashamed! :( I'll have a read of that tonight then get back to you on it.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    obplayer wrote: »
    Read 'Reason' by Isaac Asimov.

    I first read "I, Robot" back in the late seventies. I've always adored Asimov.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Aenaes


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31656222

    US-Bangladesh blogger Avijit Roy, an atheist who advocated secularism, was killed in Dhaka. His wife was also attacked, hopefully she recovers fully.

    All powerful god and his chosen followers get hurt by some words and questions. Such a shame the world has to be fearful of stupidity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Could have been worse, instead of asking a question he could have drawn a picture :rolleyes:

    THIS IS THE TWENTY-FIRST FCUKING CENTURY and we are still having to deal with this idiotic pre-enlightenment crap.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    I have something to confess. I don't know how to say it, so I'll just say it plainly.

    I've never read Asimov. I know, I'm so ashamed! :( I'll have a read of that tonight then get back to you on it.

    He's overrated. Now, Alfred Bester, there was an SF writer (also a good comic writer too!).


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Spiritual leader allegedly manipulated 400 men into removing testicles to be 'closer to God'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/spiritual-leader-allegedly-manipulated-400-men-into-removing-testicles-to-be-closer-to-god-10078095.html
    A man has been accused of encouraging hundreds of followers to be castrated in a promise for them to become closer to God. Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, an Indian pop-star and telepreacher with a reported wealth of more than $50 million, is being investigated after he allegedly manipulated around 400 men to get their testicles removed – according to India Today.

    One of his former followers who underwent castration seven years ago – named Hans Raj Chauhan – is one of the few to break the silence to speak out against him and the group. “[The victims] were told that only those who get castrated will be able to meet God,” said Chauhan’s lawyer, Navkiran Singh, according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

    Singh in one of his Bollywood-style music videos Chauhan, 35, filed a petition against the guru in 2012 and the Central Bureau of Investigation has started looking into claims dating back as far back as 2000 in preparation of charges of grievous bodily harm. However many followers are believed to be in fear of speaking out.

    In January, MailOnline reported how Singh, the head of the Dera Sacha Sauda organisation, had hit back at the allegations. At a press conference for his new film he said: “Such allegations disturb me, when I am doing good for humanity. Therefore me and my legal advisor are going to move the court challenging the allegations.”

    The alleged castrations were said to be mainly carried out at a hospital run by the DSS in Singh’s ancestral village Gurusar Modia, in the Hanumangarh district of Rajasthan. The DSS also owns factories, markets, farms, restaurants, hotels and runs schools and orphanages, according to Latterly Magazine.

    Singh – who has more than 87,000 Twitter followers but is not a follower of anyone – describes himself on a social media bio as a “spiritual Saint/philanthropist/versatile singer/allrounder sportsperson/film director/art director/music director/script writer/lyricist/autobiographer/DOP”.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Westboro Baptist Church's attempts to protest at Leonard Nimoy funeral thwarted by inability to find it

    http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/mar/03/leonard-nimoy-funeral-westboro-baptist-church
    The Westboro Baptist Church were foiled in their attempts to protest at the funeral of Star Trek actor Leonard Nimoy on 1 March, because of their failure to find it.

    The church posted a Twitter update lamenting its inability to picket the event, which it said was due to a lack of publicity over the location. The organisation also referenced the widely-publicised failure of Nimoy’s Star Trek co-star William Shatner to attend the funeral.

    Westboro has become notorious for its uninvited presence at high-profile funerals of those whose sexuality and beliefs it disagrees with. The WBC, which is also anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic and anti-Chinese, believes that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are God’s punishment on America for tolerating homosexuality.

    Nimoy, 83, died on Friday morning of end-stage chronic obstructive pulmonary disease at his home in Los Angeles. Shatner, who played Captain Kirk to his colleague’s Spock on television and in seven big screen outings, has lamented his inability to attend the funeral. The 83-year-old actor, who had been pre-booked for a charity function, took to Twitter on Sunday to talk about his friend and answer questions from fans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Surprised Kirk was too busy to attend Spock's funeral.
    At 83, he has certainly lived long and prospered though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    recedite wrote: »
    Surprised Kirk was too busy to attend Spock's funeral.
    At 83, he has certainly lived long and prospered though.

    I can understand his reasons why he didn't go. It would be embarrassing if he didn't attend the charity event, and at his age, he wouldn't be up to going to both the event and then immediately flying across the country to a funeral. It's not like funerals are the only areas where people are allowed to mourn for lost friends and families. I'm sure Shatner will mourn in his own way and on his own time.
    I find it hilarious that the WBC talked about Shatner's non-appearance. I mean, what did they say? Ridicule him for not appearing, while also calling Nimoy all sorts of names? Then again, they did excommunicate Fred Phelps, the freaking founder. If that doesn't tell you how insane they are, nothing will.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    New word for the day; "Spocking"
    Bank of Canada is pleading with Star Trek fans to stop “Spocking” its five dollar bills. Since Leonard Nimoy’s death, Canadian folks have been “Spocking” the hell out of the five dollar bill...


This discussion has been closed.
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