The Hazards of Belief

recedite · 09-02-2015 9:49am

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

But what if one lives lives directly north of Mecca, in Medina say, what does a good muslim man do then?

Well then the jax should be east or west facing. North/south in Ireland though.

TheChizler · 09-02-2015 12:39pm

recedite wrote: »

Well then the jax should be east or west facing. North/south in Ireland though.

What happens in the Tuamotus Islands in French Polynesia? Can sewage not flow down there? Or is it a surface direction thing only? In which case you'd presumably have to keep spinning. I must know!

silverharp · 09-02-2015 1:16pm

Can you imagine the problems Howard in big bang theory would have trying to make the waste system on the iss Muslim friendly....

recedite · 09-02-2015 11:06pm

TheChizler wrote: »

What happens in the Tuamotus Islands in French Polynesia? Can sewage not flow down there...

Can you direct all future enquiries to The Chief Mufti please.

Nodin · 13-02-2015 1:55pm

"Actress Shirley MacLaine has drawn criticism following a series of ill-considered comments on the holocaust and Stephen Hawking."

"MacLaine made the comments in her recently-published memoir, in which she questioned if the 6m victims of the holocaust 'brought it on themselves'. She offered the theory that they were atoning in this life for crimes committed in past ones.
She continued her offensive tirade by suggesting that cosmologist Stephen Hawking 'subconsciously' 'gave himself' motor neurone disease in order to ‘free his mind’ from the needs of his body."
..............................................
"What if most Holocaust victims were balancing their karma from ages before, when they were Roman soldiers putting Christians to death, the Crusaders who murdered millions in the name of Christianity, soldiers with Hannibal, or those who stormed across the Near East with Alexander? The energy of killing is endless and will be experienced by the killer and the killee.’"
http://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/downton-abbey-star-shirley-maclaine-ignites-fury-with-holocaust-comments-30989599.html

...or what if you were off yer rocker Shirley? what then?

Pherekydes · 13-02-2015 2:05pm

Sad to see someone you admired as a kid losing their marbles.

PopePalpatine · 13-02-2015 2:14pm

Nodin wrote: »

"Actress Shirley MacLaine has drawn criticism following a series of ill-considered comments on the holocaust and Stephen Hawking."

"MacLaine made the comments in her recently-published memoir, in which she questioned if the 6m victims of the holocaust 'brought it on themselves'. She offered the theory that they were atoning in this life for crimes committed in past ones.
She continued her offensive tirade by suggesting that cosmologist Stephen Hawking 'subconsciously' 'gave himself' motor neurone disease in order to ‘free his mind’ from the needs of his body."
..............................................
"What if most Holocaust victims were balancing their karma from ages before, when they were Roman soldiers putting Christians to death, the Crusaders who murdered millions in the name of Christianity, soldiers with Hannibal, or those who stormed across the Near East with Alexander? The energy of killing is endless and will be experienced by the killer and the killee.’"
http://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/downton-abbey-star-shirley-maclaine-ignites-fury-with-holocaust-comments-30989599.html

...or what if you were off yer rocker Shirley? what then?

That reminds me of when Ken Barlow's actor said victims of sexual abuse were "paying for past crimes". Disgusting.

13-02-2015 2:16pm

Is it just me or is she asking philosophical and hypothetical questions in that extract and not suggesting that it's true?

I've no other evidence other than the two quotes above to go on, but how else can you ask the questions? Are we to do it without specific references?

Is the proviso "What If" meaningless there?
edit, it's not a proviso but are we just ignoring it?

Pherekydes · 13-02-2015 2:27pm

Sometimes, 'what if' questions are interesting and even useful.

'What if the holocaust victims chose that life for themselves to balance karma from previous lives?' is not interesting or useful. It's astonishingly offensive. Victim blaming at its worst.

13-02-2015 2:34pm

The idea of 'karma' is crudely close to victim blaming though. Are we not to give examples if/when discussing it?

If she'd written "Hypothetically, if karma were a real thing, one could argue that... " instead of "what if...", would that make the above phrases more/less offensive / no different?

Brian Shanahan · 13-02-2015 5:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it just me or is she asking philosophical and hypothetical questions in that extract and not suggesting that it's true?

No, she's spouting offensive claptrap, and knowing that its offensive is posing it as a "what if?" question, in a feeble attempt to try and show herself to not be bigoted.

It's like when a racist goes off on a rant about "darkies" and realising they're sitting beside an African says "no offence meant".

13-02-2015 6:13pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

No, she's spouting offensive claptrap, and knowing that its offensive is posing it as a "what if?" question, in a feeble attempt to try and show herself to not be bigoted.

It's like when a racist goes off on a rant about "darkies" and realising they're sitting beside an African says "no offence meant".

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea of 'karma' is crudely close to victim blaming though. Are we not to give examples if/when discussing it?

If she'd written "Hypothetically, if karma were a real thing, one could argue that... " instead of "what if...", would that make the above phrases more/less offensive / no different?

would be interested on your thoughts here.

Brian Shanahan · 13-02-2015 7:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

would be interested on your thoughts here.

My personal ideas on karma is that it is essentially a "blame the victim" mentality. If you look at societies which have a karmic philosophy they are pretty much all highly stratified or they have taken their ideas from other highly stratified societies. For example, the main exemplar of karma is hindu India, where there are five castes (which are basicly immutable from generation) ranging from the warriors and priests at the top, having access the greatest wealth, best food, best land, best women, slaves &c. to make their lives easier to the dalits, the untouchalbes at the bottoms, whose lives under hindu systems aren't worth ****.

Shrap · 13-02-2015 7:20pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

My personal ideas on karma is that it is essentially a "blame the victim" mentality. If you look at societies which have a karmic philosophy they are pretty much all highly stratified or they have taken their ideas from other highly stratified societies.

It's actually very very similar to what that Imam was saying (as in the Imam, the Jesuit and the Humanist walk into a bar debate about Stephen Fry on Newstalk). I don't think the notion of a person being responsible for their own hardship in this life being down to the ...ahem...."possibility" that they or their ancestors may be having to pay back past-life sins is exclusive to those saying it's "karma".

silverharp · 15-02-2015 12:59pm

dont know if this still goes on today but amusing all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmlYe2KS0-Y

looksee · 15-02-2015 2:30pm

I think that is kinda sad. It is no more ridiculous than going to Lourdes or Knock, or watching a statue in a grotto to see it move. At least they have the excuse of not having the technological education to know what is happening.

Brian Shanahan · 15-02-2015 3:09pm

silverharp wrote: »

dont know if this still goes on today but amusing all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmlYe2KS0-Y

John Frum.

There's cargo cults all over the Pacific actually. There is even one on Tanna, the same island that houses John Frum, that has adopted Phil the Greek as a god (this despite his undisguised and well known racism).

Pawwed Rig · 15-02-2015 9:58pm

looksee wrote: »

I think that is kinda sad. It is no more ridiculous than going to Lourdes or Knock, or watching a statue in a grotto to see it move. At least they have the excuse of not having the technological education to know what is happening.

I remember as a child standing in the rain for hours looking at a statue in Cork waiting for it to move. Watching planes take off and land would have been a better day out for that 7 year old

Kivaro · 15-02-2015 10:05pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I remember as a child standing in the rain for hours looking at a statue in Cork waiting for it to move.

Obviously, you were not doing it right.
You should have waited until hypothermia set in, and then all types of strange things would have happened.

Turtwig · 15-02-2015 10:24pm

Nope, amateurs. He just had to believe with a truly open heart. That's how we came to see it. We can't show him how because he has to experience it for himself. All he had to do was believe and he'd see the statue move. As well as numerous others glorious miracles!

PopePalpatine · 16-02-2015 12:20am

Sure didn't God decide the best way to reveal himself was through hallucinations?

Hotblack Desiato · 16-02-2015 1:34am

It's the only way that any god has been 'revealed'.

TheChizler · 16-02-2015 10:33am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Watching planes take off and land would have been a better day out for that 7 year old

TBH that sounds like a great day!

robindch · 16-02-2015 11:19am

Did this one show up recently? I can't tell any more if Pope Frank and his mates are just trolling everybody. First we get that walloping somebody is ok, then walloping kids is ok, then something about the church needing to protect against groupthink, and now, the world's most eligible, childless guy says that not having children is "selfish"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/11/pope-francis-the-choice-to-not-have-children-is-selfish

Pope Frank, Chief Minister of the F'cking Obvious wrote:

[...] Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: It is enriched, not impoverished [...]

Pope Sorry-What-Did-You-Just-Say wrote:

The choice to not have children is selfish.

RikuoAmero · 16-02-2015 11:37am

robindch wrote: »

Did this one show up recently? I can't tell any more if Pope Frank and his mates are just trolling everybody. First we get that walloping somebody is ok, then walloping kids is ok, then something about the church needing to protect against groupthink, and now, the world's most eligible, childless guy says that not having children is "selfish"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/11/pope-francis-the-choice-to-not-have-children-is-selfish

The sound of facepalms will be loud enough to be heard in space...and yes I know you can't hear anything in space.

robindch · 23-02-2015 11:27am

A priest hands out some moral advice to kids. Kids of around 7-8 years old. Including the following:

SF Gate wrote:

They asked questions such as, “Did I perform impure acts by myself (masturbation) or with another (adultery, fornication and sodomy)?” and, “Did I practice artificial birth control or was I or my spouse prematurely sterilized (tubal ligation or vasectomy)?” as well as, “Have I had or advised anyone to have an abortion?” [...] I read the first few lines and I thought, 'What does that mean?’” she said. “They looked like they were things you weren’t supposed to do — the Commandments. But I don’t think they were.”

The older students were just as confused, and were talking about them at recess and getting “really grossed out,” said sixth-grader Riley Brooks, 11. “There was something about masturbation,” he said. “Pretty sure abortion was on there, but I can’t remember. And sodomy. I don’t know what that means.”

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Pamphlet-about-morals-upsets-parents-at-SF-6086741.php

Neither the priest nor his bishop could be reached for comment.

MrPudding · 25-02-2015 4:02pm

Not sure where to put this... I hate the telegraph, but this story needs reading.

MrP

silverharp · 25-02-2015 4:14pm

MrPudding wrote: »

Not sure where to put this... I hate the telegraph, but this story needs reading.

MrP

That's funny, just watched the Brian Cox documantry last night with my son so caught the "astrology is rubbish of course" comment. I'd have thought that would be an instant death by media experience.

kylith · 25-02-2015 4:29pm

MrPudding wrote: »

Not sure where to put this... I hate the telegraph, but this story needs reading.

MrP

Thanks for that, it's been a while since I was so angered by stupidity that I couldn't see.

Astrology may not be capable of passing double-blind tests but it is based on thousands of years of observation.

If these 'thousands of years of observation' worked astrology would be able to pass a double blind test.

"Astrology was until modern times part of the tradition of medicine.

Yeah, you know what else was part of the tradition of medicine until recently? Mercury and bloodletting.

In the words of a wise man: [alternative medicine] has either not been proven to work, or been proven not to work.

postitnote · 25-02-2015 4:32pm

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/aortic-aneurysms-caused-by-movement-of-saturn-admits-nhs-2015022595714

THE NHS has admitted some forms of heart disease are caused by the alignment of planets in the outer solar system.

Experts said the movement of Saturn through Aquarius causes dilation of the aorta just below the left ventricle and if left untreated can cause sudden death or exciting new career opportunities.

A NHS spokesman said: “Initially we dismissed the research, but the results were conclusive. We don’t yet know how it affects the other major organs, but there’s no question that endocarditis, aortic aneurysms and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy are all caused by Saturn.”

Martin Bishop, a consultant cardiologist, added: “If you’re a Scorpio or a Gemini you should probably get a scan. But wait until after the 15th because of Leo, obviously.

“On the upside, if you’re a Sagittarius you can eat whatever you want.

“You’re heart may still be broken towards the end of the month, but by unrequited love rather than a myocardial infarction.”

The Hazards of Belief

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