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‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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Comments

  • #362
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Slightly back topic I wonder was the girl paid to take part in this piece? People are commending her for stepping up/bravery so just wondering what sort of financial motivations present in doing a documentary like this.

    A sacrifice?
    wonderfullife wrote: »
    A grand is by no means pocket change but it is not an insurmountable prohibitive price either. Most people, even the poor, can afford to run a car on the dole. It might require slightly longer to pay for an abortion and involve some sacrifices, sure.


  • #363
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I didn't say there was no difference? In fact, I specifically said there was a difference. How can I formulate an answer for something I never said.

    and I asked you what was the difference?

    but you are unable to tell me what is the difference!!


  • #364
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    smash wrote: »
    Does it matter? She didn't have the abortion to get on TV, it wasn't the driving factor. For what it's worth, I hope she was at least compensated enough to cover her costs for the procedure.

    It matters when 2 of her "justifying" reasons were as trivial as having a holiday planned.

    Not that she needs to justify herself. But she stepped forward and put then out there.

    Its tough to have a rationale abortion debate at the best of times. You're largely dealing with headstrong feminists. Thats not an insult its a fact how closely tied historically feminism and pro-choice are.

    No point of view will be accepted or taken on board other than: "its the womans body and its not a child, its a fetus".

    Tough to debate with when that's the case bottom line. In some respects it would be easier to debate with a brick wall, you'd penetrate the same amount into their core position (zero) and not have to type.


  • #365
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    bjork wrote: »
    and I asked you what was the difference?

    but you are unable to tell me what is the difference!!

    The difference being one is talking about HIV and the other about contraception! I don't know the stats on HIV, I don't know the failure rate. I was never involved in that discussion. The fact still remains that condoms fail as contraception.


  • #366
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    bjork wrote: »
    and I asked you what was the difference?

    but you are unable to tell me what is the difference!!

    Does it matter? Your argument has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. If everyone was to take your approach then we'd get nowhere. Get back on topic and make a valid point if you want to be listened to.


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  • #367
    Dandy Dandridge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Dandy Dandridge


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I think there needs to more of an explanation of your post than that...

    Just my opinion sup.


  • #368
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    smash wrote: »
    Does it matter? Your argument has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. If everyone was to take your approach then we'd get nowhere. Get back on topic and make a valid point if you want to be listened to.

    Yes. Both are "conditions" controlled by condom usage. It'd be interesting to compare the stats.


  • #369
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    . You're largely dealing with headstrong feminists. Thats not an insult its a fact how closely tied historically feminism and pro-choice are.

    No point of view will be accepted or taken on board other than: "its the womans body and its not a child, its a fetus".

    I don't identify myself as a feminist and I'm still pro choice. I'm more than willing to hear opposing sides. I won't just accept them without question though.


  • #370
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    bjork wrote: »
    Yes. Both are "conditions" controlled by condom usage. It'd be interesting to compare the stats.


    But HIV has nothing to do with abortion


  • #371
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,144 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    boatbuilder wrote: »
    So - off she went, got an abortion... and hey presto two weeks later... she feels more suicidal than ever and will probably be haunted by her actions for the rest of her life. Many abortions are done as a cure for mental health problems that probably existed long before the pregnancy and are not remotely related to the pregnancy itself. Supporting mentally unwell people to have abortions is surely not a great idea.

    Slut-shaming doesn't help.


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  • #372
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    It matters when 2 of her "justifying" reasons were as trivial as having a holiday planned.

    Not that she needs to justify herself. But she stepped forward and put then out there.
    But as you say yourself, she doesn't need to justify herself. I seriously doubt that getting on TV to make a few quid was a deciding factor in going through with the pregnancy or not.
    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Its tough to have a rationale abortion debate at the best of times. You're largely dealing with headstrong feminists. Thats not an insult its a fact how closely tied historically feminism and pro-choice are.

    Id say you're more so dealing with headstrong religious types.


  • #373
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I don't identify myself as a feminist and I'm still pro choice. I'm more than willing to hear opposing sides. I won't just accept them without question though.

    You haven't accepted one opposing view all thread so I don't see that changing . though ya never know :)


  • #374
    JapaneseLove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭JapaneseLove


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    ‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that’s right for me’

    The sooner this country gets out of the dark ages the better. Having women going abroad to have an abortion is embarrassing. And worse letting women die in hospitals, when an abortion would have saved there lives, is a disgrace.

    Its about time this country threw off the shackles of the Catholic Church and start thinking about what is best for its people.


  • #375
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    bjork wrote: »
    Yes. Both are "conditions" controlled by condom usage. It'd be interesting to compare the stats.

    What's interesting about comparing the stats? Condoms for HIV or pregnancy... they're not 100%.


  • #376
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    You haven't accepted one opposing view all thread so I don't see that changing . though ya never know :)

    I'll hear them, but like I said, I won't accept them without question. Why would I? There hasn't been a convincing argument.


  • #377
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    smash wrote: »
    What's interesting about comparing the stats? Condoms for HIV or pregnancy... they're not 100%.

    Yes, the rate of pregnancy should be lower as sensible people are using a combination of contraception.


  • #378
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    bjork wrote: »
    Yes, the rate of pregnancy should be lower as sensible people are using a combination of contraception.

    Just because you double up, shouldn't give you a complete sense of security. They can still fail. It would be extremely unfortunate but has been known to happen.


  • #379
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    smash wrote: »
    But as you say yourself, she doesn't need to justify herself. I seriously doubt that getting on TV to make a few quid was a deciding factor in going through with the pregnancy or not.



    Id say you're more so dealing with headstrong religious types.
    My point was maybe, just maybe, after the abortion she was offered a nice few quid to appear in a documentary.

    Forget deciding factors I am assuming the abortion decision was long since made.

    My point is before hailing this girl as a bastion of light for attempting to break some sort of "omerta", lets remain open to the very real plausibility she only appeared on it after being offered a few grand to do so.

    If she is some sort of torch bearer attempting to highlight the issue she would have done the piece for free. Which I highly doubt is the case.


  • #380
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    It matters when 2 of her "justifying" reasons were as trivial as having a holiday planned.

    Not that she needs to justify herself. But she stepped forward and put then out there.

    Its tough to have a rationale abortion debate at the best of times. You're largely dealing with headstrong feminists. Thats not an insult its a fact how closely tied historically feminism and pro-choice are.

    No point of view will be accepted or taken on board other than: "its the womans body and its not a child, its a fetus".

    Tough to debate with when that's the case bottom line. In some respects it would be easier to debate with a brick wall, you'd penetrate the same amount into their core position (zero) and not have to type.

    Are you saying you are open to having your mind changed ?


  • #381
    jjC123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭jjC123


    Can I point out one of the largest age brackets in women receiving abortions are the over 40's?

    This mightn't be totally relevant to the original post but I think it's an important point to make regardless.
    It's not all "stupid young girls who shouldn't be having sex because blah blah blah". Despite the "all women are made to push out babies no bother" brigade, pregnancy carries huge health risks for all age brackets. Every single one of those risks increases massively over the age of 40. If a woman has had her kids in her 20's or 30s and becomes pregnant again in her 40s (through failed contraception/believing she was infertile etc) , should she be made carry that child to term even if she fears for her health?

    I'm not talking about standard swollen ankles - women over 40 are at higher risk for gestational diabetes (diabetes runs in my own family - a horrible illness that is really underestimated by people), foetal abnormalities, orthopaedic issues especially if they're overweight, tearing, high blood pressure, pre-eclampsia (a leading cause of maternal morbidity) which can eventually cause damage to the nervous system including seizures. They are 3 times more likely to need a C-section, more likely to need emergency intervention and more likely to have a stillbirth.

    None of the above conditions qualifies a woman in Ireland to have an abortion (there may or may not be an exception if preeclampsia develops into eclampsia but I can't find any information on it)

    This is not to say that women in their 40s shouldn't have kids. This is not to say this will happen to all women over 40 (any arguments of "Mary down the road had Jimmy when she was 46 and said it was the easiest of all her pregnancies" are invalid)
    But I am saying that a woman shouldn't be told 'sorry you have entirely preventable diabetes and precarious health but the government controls your uterus so you must carry this baby you don't want, despite the significant health risks and emotional trauma it may cause you'


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  • #382
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Dandy Dandridge wrote: »
    Abortion is wrong and should only be an option in the case of direct physical threat to the life of the mother or if scans have identified PROFOUND physical deficiencies in the fetus which would lead to a terrible life of existence. Otherwise adoption is the way to go. Tough **** on rape victims, rape is no excuse for adoption. No one was born a rapist.
    Again - are there 5,000 couples, minimum, in Ireland looking to adopt every year?

    What is to be done with the children who are too disabled, too old, or just too ugly to be chosen by one of the limited number of adoptive parents? Are you going to take them in? Are you happy for your taxes to rise exponentially to cover the cost of raising thousands upon thousands of children in institutions for 18 years apiece?


  • #383
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    the opinions of various anti-abortion posters on here are enough to make me want to go out and get protest abortions.


  • #384
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    bjork wrote: »
    Yes, the rate of pregnancy should be lower as sensible people are using a combination of contraception.

    You can not compare the rate of pregnancy to the rate of HIV infections. That's just bloody daft!


  • #385
    DuffmanGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭DuffmanGuy


    Ireland has the most advanced abortion laws in the world: We don't allow it.

    It's inhumane to rip a living baby apart, to feed the coffers of the abortion industry.

    Taking your abortion views from anti-religion is just as mad as taking them from religion.

    Science is clear - All mammals begin life with conception. This woman has killed her child, and some idiots will applaud her for it. That's the Shame.


  • #386
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Ireland has the most advanced abortion laws in the world: We don't allow it.

    It's inhumane to rip a living baby apart, to feed the coffers of the abortion industry.

    Taking your abortion views from anti-religion is just as mad as taking them from religion.

    Science is clear - All mammals begin life with conception. This woman has killed her child, and some idiots will applaud her for it. That's the Shame.

    :pac:


  • #387
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Ireland has the most advanced abortion laws in the world: We don't allow it.

    It's inhumane to rip a living baby apart, to feed the coffers of the abortion industry.

    Taking your abortion views from anti-religion is just as mad as taking them from religion.

    Science is clear - All mammals begin life with conception. This woman has killed her child, and some idiots will applaud her for it. That's the Shame.

    You forgot how they burn it and then force feed the ashes to the mother :rolleyes:


  • #388
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Ireland has the most advanced abortion laws in the world: We don't allow it.

    It's inhumane to rip a living baby apart, to feed the coffers of the abortion industry.

    Taking your abortion views from anti-religion is just as mad as taking them from religion.

    Science is clear - All mammals begin life with conception. This woman has killed her child, and some idiots will applaud her for it. That's the Shame.

    I see a long future for you on boards.


  • #389
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    marienbad wrote: »
    Are you saying you are open to having your mind changed ?
    Of course. But I'm not anti abortion or pro-choice (as it stands).

    All I want is for prospective father's to be given a choice. Which will never happen. So I'm just trying to add value to the debate from the middle.


  • #390
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    kylith wrote: »
    Again - are there 5,000 couples, minimum, in Ireland looking to adopt every year?

    What is to be done with the children who are too disabled, too old, or just too ugly to be chosen by one of the limited number of adoptive parents? Are you going to take them in? Are you happy for your taxes to rise exponentially to cover the cost of raising thousands upon thousands of children in institutions for 18 years apiece?

    Wait, what??
    Where are all these thousands and thousands of children now? or will they suddenly appear if abortion is not legalised?


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  • #391
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Ireland has the most advanced abortion laws in the world: We don't allow it.

    It's inhumane to rip a living baby apart, to feed the coffers of the abortion industry.

    Taking your abortion views from anti-religion is just as mad as taking them from religion.

    Science is clear - All mammals begin life with conception. This woman has killed her child, and some idiots will applaud her for it. That's the Shame.

    So why would I go to jail for 14 years for procuring a chemical abortifactant? No ripping apart there.


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