‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

sunshine and showers

Smidge wrote: »

Massively voted against, just on the news there now

Clearly the government don't want to risk it being struck out by the Supreme Court if (more like when) the President referred it to them under Article 26.

I don't think the AG's advice was right, though. I'm not sure it would have been found unconstitutional.

Just proves, yet again, that we need a referendum on the Eighth Amendment.

padd b1975

Smidge wrote: »

I must commend Boyd Barrett for speaking from personal opinion about his own daughter(it was clearly emotive for him)

I found his tour of radio stations in the past few days trying to make political capital out of a personal tragedy crass in the extreme.

eviltwin

padd b1975 wrote: »

I found his tour of radio stations in the past few days trying to make political capital out of a personal tragedy crass in the extreme.

What I heard was a father who had been through a pretty terrible ordeal campaigning to ensure no other family has to go through the same thing.

RobertKK

eviltwin wrote: »

What I heard was a father who had been through a pretty terrible ordeal campaigning to ensure no other family has to go through the same thing.

He campaigned as if his story defined all.

Given I have a close relation who was told her unborn wouldn't survive, due to a FFA but expertise from Crumlin means years later the child is like any other.

It is not as straightforward as some politicians make it out to be.

eviltwin

RobertKK wrote: »

He campaigned as if his story defined all.

Given I have a close relation who was told her unborn wouldn't survive, due to a FFA but expertise from Crumlin means years later the child is like any other.

It is not as straightforward as some politicians make it out to be.

It gives insight. Only someone who has been in that position can really articulate the trauma involved in travelling to the UK.

How does someone with a fatal diagnosis survive? Not being smart asking that, I am genuinely interested. Was the original diagnosis wrong? Obviously as medicine improves things can change and some ffa's may no longer mean certain death. I'm sure most people advocating for tfmr would support those cases no longer being covered under the terms of the legislation as and when those improved outcomes occur.

RobertKK

eviltwin wrote: »

It gives insight. Only someone who has been in that position can really articulate the trauma involved in travelling to the UK.

How does someone with a fatal diagnosis survive? Not being smart asking that, I am genuinely interested. Was the original diagnosis wrong? Obviously as medicine improves things can change and some ffa's may no longer mean certain death. I'm sure most people advocating for tfmr would support those cases no longer being covered under the terms of the legislation as and when those improved outcomes occur.

They survive because the initial diagnosis is wrong, my sister went months with this diagnosis and it came from the top maternity hospital as she was referred there due to the complexity of the pregnancy. She found it very hard, her own doctor was very supportive which was massive.
Even when having the baby by appointment she was told the baby might not survive.

I just think this black and white outcome as some put it to be is wrong.
It ignores how complex it is and I think that is why it was unconstitutional, Clare Daly and some others put it as being something straightforward.

sunshine and showers

I don't think Clare Day thinks it's straightforward at all. I think what she was trying to get politicians to recognise is that FFA as a diagnosis is a sad reality of life and parents (women especially) deserve to have options if they find themselves in that horrific situation.

It's wonderful if the diagnosis is wrong and there is a healthy baby born,but that is so, so rare. Unfortunately, the majority of the time the diagnosis is correct and we shouldn't be shipping the women of Ireland of to the UK to get the medical treatment they deserve.

Little CuChulainn

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Clearly the government don't want to risk it being struck out by the Supreme Court if (more like when) the President referred it to them under Article 26.

I don't think the AG's advice was right, though. I'm not sure it would have been found unconstitutional.

Just proves, yet again, that we need a referendum on the Eighth Amendment.

Generally I'd agree with voting against populist bills that take advantage of the publics lack of constitutional knowledge. But I think this bill was fairly solid constitutionally and deserved to go as far as the president.

sunshine and showers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Generally I'd agree with voting against populist bills that take advantage of the publics lack of constitutional knowledge. But I think this bill was fairly solid constitutionally and deserved to go as far as the president.

I would have to agree and I really do think it was more a decision for the ultimate interpreters of the Constitution - the Supreme Court - as opposed to the government on the advice of the AG. At least then we would know where we definitely stand constitutionally.

padd b1975

Lol @ the posters who think they know better than The Attorney General..

sunshine and showers

padd b1975 wrote: »

Lol @ the posters who think they know better than The Attorney General..

Is she infallible now?

padd b1975

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Is she infallible now?

As close as can be, yes.

jaja321

padd b1975 wrote: »

Lol @ the posters who think they know better than The Attorney General..

Perhaps they just think it's an issue for the Supreme Court, not one person's opinion.

Morag

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-says-it-s-all-down-to-the-constitution-1.2099038

A general election is on the way. TDs want no truck with anything to do with the “abortion” word.
“Off the record? We’re sick of it” said one Government backbencher.

Do they really think they can have a general election and not have this be a door step issue?
150,000+ women have traveled from Ireland to the UK to have abortions, after what happened to Savita, Migrant Y and Tara that people won't raise Repeal the 8th with them?
Delusional.

Shrap

Morag wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-says-it-s-all-down-to-the-constitution-1.2099038



Do they really think they can have a general election and not have this be a door step issue?
150,000+ women have traveled from Ireland to the UK to have abortions, after what happened to Savita, Migrant Y and Tara that people won't raise Repeal the 8th with them?
Delusional.

I'll be hanging a sign on my gate saying "All prospective TD's please prepare your answers for why the repeal of the 8th amendment hasn't been put to the people yet. Votes contingent on your answer"

jaja321

Morag wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-says-it-s-all-down-to-the-constitution-1.2099038



Do they really think they can have a general election and not have this be a door step issue?
150,000+ women have traveled from Ireland to the UK to have abortions, after what happened to Savita, Migrant Y and Tara that people won't raise Repeal the 8th with them?
Delusional.

I've always wondered about this, and it will certainly be a door step issue for me... but is it for the vast majority of people? It mustn't be if successive governments won't go near it.. politicians 'deliver' on what they think the people want. As I said I'll certainly be raising it, and I'm sick to the teeth of the political dodgeball that goes on around this issue - but I wonder in reality how many other people on the door steps raise this issue to the point where a government will commit to tackling it.

lazygal

Morag wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-says-it-s-all-down-to-the-constitution-1.2099038



Do they really think they can have a general election and not have this be a door step issue?
150,000+ women have traveled from Ireland to the UK to have abortions, after what happened to Savita, Migrant Y and Tara that people won't raise Repeal the 8th with them?
Delusional.

I don't tweet but I would support a campaign entitled #Imsickofit to get the ball rolling. I'm sick of politicians refusing to deal with abortion when most other normal countries manage to grasp the nettle on the issue.

PopePalpatine

lazygal wrote: »

I don't tweet but I would support a campaign entitled #Imsickofit to get the ball rolling. I'm sick of politicians refusing to deal with abortion when most other normal countries manage to grasp the nettle on the issue.

That sounds like a plan, I'm in.

padd b1975

A twitter campaign ......

Breaking out the heavy artillery good and early!!

RobertKK

padd b1975 wrote: »

A twitter campaign ......

Breaking out the heavy artillery good and early!!

:pac:

That will work out well....it will be war on twitter and then when everyone is rightly worked up on both sides, it will have led to nothing, apart from raised blood pressure.

marienbad

Morag wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-says-it-s-all-down-to-the-constitution-1.2099038



Do they really think they can have a general election and not have this be a door step issue?
150,000+ women have traveled from Ireland to the UK to have abortions, after what happened to Savita, Migrant Y and Tara that people won't raise Repeal the 8th with them?
Delusional.

Sadly it wont be a doorstep issue for most people , that is the reality.