‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

the_monkey

PauloMN wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tara-they-shouldn-t-have-control-over-my-uterus-1.2089490



Her baby got in the way of her new apartment and a trip away.

What a sad, sad society.

Wasn't a baby yet mate - get over yourself.

RobertKK

kylith wrote: »

Tell that to the kids left to roam the streets pretty much as soon as they're old enough to walk. Neglected and starved by parents who never really wanted them in the first place. Tell them that life is what they make it and to quit whinging.

Report the parents if you see neglect.

eviltwin

RobertKK wrote: »

Yet I was reading Nicki Minaj saying in Rolling Stone magazine how she is 'haunted' by the abortion she had.
Abortion is not easy, neither is adoption but with abortion you cannot undo it, while you can look to find the child you gave up for adoption.

I could show you many testimonies from women who gave children up for adoption who are haunted by that but that's what you are encouraging.

I can also tell you about many woman who don't regret their abortions for one moment but you probably won't put as much relevance to their stories as you do to the likes of Nicki Minaj who have regrets.

RobertKK

smash wrote: »

Why should she? It's traumatic for her body and mind to go through a pregnancy. Trauma that she doesn't need to endure.

What about the women who suffer trauma from abortion.

Pro-choice amazingly quiet on that.

Shrap

wonderfullife wrote: »

If you are in favour of subsidising abortions then you open the floodgates for people wanting all sorts of procedures subsidised. A tummy tuck or gastric op would in theory save tax payers a lot in the long run as obesity causes long term health problems and burdens the health infrastructure.

Incidentally when you look at your children do you still think abortion was the better option. Thats something people tend to overlook when trivialising abortion by saying "its just a fetus". Whatever the semantics, it does tend to turn into a baby.

It's a moot point. I cannot regret my children because I love them more than I love myself. HOWEVER while they were tiny foetuses in the womb, I did not love them then. In fact, they did not become (for me) lives that I could imagine as distinct from myself until at least 3 months into the pregnancies.

And they're talking about subsidising procedures for conditions that would become a drain and a burden on the tax payers in the long run already.

Delirium

Shrap wrote: »

And they're talking about subsidising procedures for conditions that would become a drain and a burden on the tax payers in the long run already.

And if we're talking in a purely monetary saving to taxpayers, surely an abortion would be cheaper than 18 years of child allowance/public health insurance/education?

kylith

Drumpot wrote: »

Who ever said being pregnant was easy ?

And why would you make a huge decision to abort a child mainly because of what people would say or think ? What do you care about what random nosey Nellys think ?

So, what? Someone should have to either put up with the judgement of strangers or spend 5 months lying about what they intend to do to every nosey sod who decides to tell them how happy they must be, knowing all the while that they will be handing the baby over at birth. You don't think that that would be a very stressful mental experience?

Drumpot wrote: »

Who said "it was a woman's job to put her body through a painful and dangerous experience"? Stop putting sensationalist words in my posts. I never said that.

Every person who says 'just give it up for an adoption' is saying that that is what a woman should do instead of terminating.

Drumpot wrote: »

Giving birth is a natural process and not nearly as dangerous as your post suggest, unless of course you have statistics to back up how dangerous it is ?

Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a human woman can do. We are very lucky in the west that the risks have been largely mitigated due to medical advances but you can still face eclamsia, high blood pressure, diabetes and life long problems like vaginismus, incontinence, prolapses, and those are only what I remember off the top of my head.

Drumpot wrote: »

You have a right to believe that having an abortion for ANY reason is fine, as I have a right to believe that having an abortion simply because it doesn't suit your lifestyle is not an admirable trait I would be looking to encourage.

Sure, you can believe that having an abortion is wrong for any reason you want, and no-one is ever going to force you to have one. However, as has been said, physically and mentally adoption is not a one-size-fits-all answer to an unwanted pregnancy. In fact, it's not an answer to an unwanted pregnancy. And IIRC a married woman in Ireland cannot give a child up for adoption.

eviltwin

RobertKK wrote: »

What about the women who suffer trauma from abortion.

Pro-choice amazingly quiet on that.

Not at all but if you do a bit of research you'll find there are reasons for that.

Women who actually would want to have the baby are more likely to suffer trauma,

Women who are forced or pressured are more likely to suffer trauma.

Women who have later term abortions are more likely to suffer trauma.

Women who have to go to extraordinary lengths to access abortion are more likely to suffer trauma.

Women who have little or not follow up support are more likely to suffer trauma

Women who are judged or stigmatised are more likely to suffer trauma.

Those who make an informed choice, a choice THEY want, without judgement are the ones who come out best.

smash

RobertKK wrote: »

What about the women who suffer trauma from abortion.

Pro-choice amazingly quiet on that.

What about it? It's an issue that can be dealt with IF it occurs. Have you seen what pregnancy can do to a woman's body? There is no reason why any woman should be forced to endure it when she doesn't want to and doesn't need to!

Then there's the mental torture of it all, which I'd say is worse than post abortion trauma because she's being forced into it instead of having the choice herself.

RobertKK

eviltwin wrote: »

I could show you many testimonies from women who gave children up for adoption who are haunted by that but that's what you are encouraging.

I can also tell you about many woman who don't regret their abortions for one moment but you probably won't put as much relevance to their stories as you do to the likes of Nicki Minaj who have regrets.

What about the father too?
High profile abortions like the following

Nicole Appleton, who is writing a book called Together with her sister Natalie, said: "Robbie Williams put his hand on my belly and told me `This baby is saving my life.

"After having my abortion I was in shock. I couldn't believe what I had done. I wanted to kill myself."

And she added: "Afterwards, everyone pretended it hadn't happened.

"I was too scared for confrontation. I am only now starting to get my confidence back.

"But writing about it made me confront it all.

"I'm so glad I did it. It was there, but I'd never told anyone in detail.

"It was like I was saying `Now do you understand why my confidence disappeared?'"

Nicole blames being a member of All Saints for the abortion remaining a painful secret for so long.

She said: "I couldn't do anything because I was in the band. The music business is such a small world."

Yes there are women who have no probably aborting and some do it multiple times, but pro-choice don't want the other side aired.

RobertKK

smash wrote: »

What about it? It's an issue that can be dealt with IF it occurs. Have you seen what pregnancy can do to a woman's body? There is no reason why any woman should be forced to endure it when she doesn't want to and doesn't need to!

That depends on how you value life.

Tasden

RobertKK wrote: »

Yet I was reading Nicki Minaj saying in Rolling Stone magazine how she is 'haunted' by the abortion she had.
Abortion is not easy, neither is adoption but with abortion you cannot undo it, while you can look to find the child you gave up for adoption.

You cannot undo bringing a child into the world. You can't undo the damage it does to your body. You can't undo the fact that you gave away a child that now wants to track you down despite you wanting to erase it all from your life. You can't undo the hurt you caused to family members who tried to convince you to keep a baby you didn't want.

wonderfullife

RobertKK wrote: »

What about the women who suffer trauma from abortion.

Pro-choice amazingly quiet on that.

My ex being one of them.

To the point that I got an email out of the blue last year from her with the original ultrasound from the Marie Stopes clinic and a message saying "I'm so sorry".

11 years later!!!! Still haunted. Some carry that for life. Some never go on to have kids or families and it all work out hunky dory.

And people on here, especially women, seem to believe financial struggles are a good enough reason for abortion. My mam raised 3 of us on a shoestring on her own and worked. I'm not saying it was easy by any stretch and my nanny helped as much as she could but it isn't this impossible dream some make it out to be.

You can still continue education, employment and even have a social life when you are poor and a mother. And all of the above assumes single motherhood which isn't always the case by any means.

muddypaws

I suggest the posters that are seeing adoption as the be all and end all solution to unwanted pregnancies look into how many adoptions break down, with the child then ending up in the care system, feeling that they have been rejected twice. Look into the research into the effect on adopted children, not just the parents who gave the child up for adoption. I used to completely believe in adoption, what a fantastic thing it is, and sometimes yes, it is, but being an adoptive parent and knowing other adoptive families, I'm not sure I even agree with it anymore. Open adoption is the norm now, with the child knowing they are adopted, and possibly even having contact with their birth family. Try living with the knowledge that you were given away for the rest of your life, and the mental health implications of that.

smash

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes there are women who have no probably aborting and some do it multiple times, but pro-choice don't want the other side aired.

There's not much to air. It was her choice and she made it. She was not forced into something. The pro-life anti-choice brigade seem to brush it under the carpet that it is the woman's body. She's not just a vessel for life, she is a life! And she should be allowed to live her life her, in her body, without you dictating how she should use it!

RobertKK wrote: »

That depends on how you value life.

How much do you value the life of the woman? How much do you value the quality of her life?

eviltwin

muddypaws wrote: »

I suggest the posters that are seeing adoption as the be all and end all solution to unwanted pregnancies look into how many adoptions break down, with the child then ending up in the care system, feeling that they have been rejected twice. Look into the research into the effect on adopted children, not just the parents who gave the child up for adoption. I used to completely believe in adoption, what a fantastic thing it is, and sometimes yes, it is, but being an adoptive parent and knowing other adoptive families, I'm not sure I even agree with it anymore. Open adoption is the norm now, with the child knowing they are adopted, and possibly even having contact with their birth family. Try living with the knowledge that you were given away for the rest of your life, and the mental health implications of that.

Open adoptions aren't the norm here though. I think its a shame they aren't available. It might actually encourage more women to consider it if they knew they could still have a relationship with their child.

RobertKK

Tasden wrote: »

You cannot undo bringing a child into the world. You can't undo the damage it does to your body. You can't undo the fact that you gave away a child that now wants to track you down despite you wanting to erase it all from your life. You can't undo the hurt you caused to family members who tried to convince you to keep a baby you didn't want.

You forgot to add 'you can't undo an abortion', to you list.

bodice ripper

RobertKK wrote: »

You forgot to add 'you can't undo an abortion', to you list.

you can get knocked up again...

eviltwin

RobertKK wrote: »

You forgot to add 'you can't undo an abortion', to you list.

You're assuming women would want to

Baggy Trousers

Surely it's only a matter of time before we have another referendum on this. I guess it wont happen in this government cycle but the next government should consider it early in the cycle. This backwardness of exporting our abortions has gone on long enough.

muddypaws

eviltwin wrote: »

Open adoptions aren't the norm here though. I think its a shame they aren't available. It might actually encourage more women to consider it if they knew they could still have a relationship with their child.

Adoption isn't the norm here either, as I say, I'm not sure I agree with it anymore, but so many children have to stay in the care system because the HSE can't go to court and get them freed for adoption. Anyhow, thats for a different discussion I think, although maybe not

Tasden

RobertKK wrote: »

You forgot to add 'you can't undo an abortion', to you list.

Well you completely missed my point.

That had already been said. (Eta:by you)
I was adding to that statement because the poster (you) seemed to assume that abortion was the only option you can't undo. It's not.

wonderfullife

bodice ripper wrote: »

you can get knocked up again...

Yeah because having sex and conceiving again undoes the fact you had a mentally exhausting procedure done before .....ummm

Shrap

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yeah because having sex and conceiving again undoes the fact you had a mentally exhausting procedure done before .....ummm

There could be a 10 year gap in that (non)sense you're making, during which time financial circumstances could have dramatically changed for the better as well as feelings of "readiness" to become a parent. Also, I've never met anyone who was traumatised by the actual procedure or the decision that let to it. I have however heard many abortion stories about missed flights and connections, crappy b&b's and pro-life protesters outside the clinics.

the_syco

This picture is how I view the pro-lifersbirthers; http://i.imgur.com/X4HZiYp.jpg

RobertKK

smash wrote: »

There's not much to air. It was her choice and she made it. She was not forced into something. The pro-life anti-choice brigade seem to brush it under the carpet that it is the woman's body. She's not just a vessel for life, she is a life! And she should be allowed to live her life her, in her body, without you dictating how she should use it!


How much do you value the life of the woman? How much do you value the quality of her life?

There are three lives in this, the mother, the father and the unborn.
Was the mother forced to have sex, and if she was, did she and her partner understand how babies are made?
Did they have sex when she was most fertile?
A lot of irresponsible stuff going on, better brush it under the carpet with an abortion.

I value the lives of women, my views would have more women in the world, not the gendercide that goes on that kills unborn females, but that is the choice of the mother...

eviltwin

RobertKK wrote: »

There are three lives in this, the mother, the father and the unborn.
Was the mother forced to have sex, and if she was, did she and her partner understand how babies are made?
Did they have sex when she was most fertile?
A lot of irresponsible stuff going on, better brush it under the carpet with an abortion.

I value the lives of women, my views would have more women in the world, not the gendercide that goes on that kills unborn females, but that is the choice of the mother...

Most women having abortions don't do it to get rid of a female baby. And banning abortion doesn't stop the ones who do. If you are that concerned you have the change the culture of certain societies that sees women as of less value than men. Its not an issue for the vast majority of western women so stop derailing the discussion.

bodice ripper

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yeah because having sex and conceiving again undoes the fact you had a mentally exhausting procedure done before .....ummm

have you had one?

smash

RobertKK wrote: »

There are three lives in this, the mother, the father and the unborn.
Was the mother forced to have sex, and if she was, did she and her partner understand how babies are made?
Did they have sex when she was most fertile?
A lot of irresponsible stuff going on, better brush it under the carpet with an abortion.

Irresponsible in your eyes! You're forgetting that contraception isn't 100%. There's also rape cases. There's cases where the baby will be born deformed etc.

So irresponsible or not, it's still her right to decide if she wants to go ahead with it or not.

RobertKK wrote: »

I value the lives of women, my views would have more women in the world, not the gendercide that goes on that kills unborn females, but that is the choice of the mother...

Well I don't agree with your "gendercide" crap. But it's good to see that you've finally come around and have noted that it's the woman's choice!

kidneyfan

Anyone else ptsl at her claim that she wants to go travelling when they are just driving across America. Laos that's real traveling and they love kids too!
Laos is amazing.