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‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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Comments

  • #302
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    There are three lives in this, the mother, the father and the unborn.
    Was the mother forced to have sex, and if she was, did she and her partner understand how babies are made?
    Did they have sex when she was most fertile?
    A lot of irresponsible stuff going on, better brush it under the carpet with an abortion.

    I value the lives of women, my views would have more women in the world, not the gendercide that goes on that kills unborn females, but that is the choice of the mother...

    Sorry? If I have sex at my most fertile point and the condom breaks then that's tough luck?
    Are you really saying that if a woman becomes pregnant as a result of rape then if she knows how pregnancy happens it's tough luck?


    No-one will ever legally be forced to have an abortion, and if someone forces/tries to force you there is legal comeback, but there are plenty who would force you to bear a child you don't want, and won't care about the months of nausea, pain, incontinence, diabetes, vaginal tearing, C-section scars or high blood pressure because, hey you can always 'just' give it up for adoption and hope it doesn't end up spending 18 years in a care home, then have to deal with it all again if they decide to track you down. Not to mention the poor child who may have to deal with being told their birth mother doesn't want to know them.


  • #303
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    kidneyfan wrote: »
    Anyone else ptsl at her claim that she wants to go travelling when they are just driving across America. Laos that's real traveling and they love kids too!
    Laos is amazing.

    No.


  • #304
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Shrap wrote: »
    There could be a 10 year gap in that (non)sense you're making, during which time financial circumstances could have dramatically changed for the better as well as feelings of "readiness" to become a parent. Also, I've never met anyone who was traumatised by the actual procedure or the decision that let to it. I have however heard many abortion stories about missed flights and connections, crappy b&b's and pro-life protesters outside the clinics.

    Just because you have never met anybody does not mean they don't exist.

    My ex had the abortion in Marie Stopes. It was a monday in March time. She said she was still in tears during the abortion. Add to before and afterwards. She wasnt sure she was making the right decision (by any means) even until the last moment.

    The factors that led to the abortion were: age (we were 21 and 20), finances (though we both agreed we would be fine on that front), readiness for a child (something she was unsure of) and what other people would think of her.

    It basically being a decision which her parents influenced greatly and ultimately she went for it. It was extremely late for an abortion just under 2 weeks before they couldnt offer it at the clinic. It was an extremely tough spot to be in for her. On the one hand she had me supporting her in terms of saying look its not ideal but we love each other we can do this. And on the other hand she had religous parents who ironically were ashamed of their unmarried "young" daughter being pregnant.

    Every individual case is different but please dont justify pro-choice by saying you have never MET anybody traumatised by it. She was. And still is. 11 years later.

    Im not even anti-abortion. To make it clear. Im in the ridiculous camp who want something impossible - pro-choice for both parents. So yeah it means me as the prospective father having a choice too. But because its not my body i get none. And never will.


  • #305
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Most women having abortions don't do it to get rid of a female baby. And banning abortion doesn't stop the ones who do. If you are that concerned you have the change the culture of certain societies that sees women as of less value than men. Its not an issue for the vast majority of western women so stop derailing the discussion.

    No, but one can see the consequences elsewhere. It was in reply to valuing women, so don't say I derailed it, we live on a small planet, less than a grain of sand in the universe.


  • #306
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    If every single pregnant woman in the world, and every single woman who becomes pregnant in the future, all decide to have an abortion, then that is fine by me. It's their choice.


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  • #307
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Im not even anti-abortion. To make it clear. Im in the ridiculous camp who want something impossible - pro-choice for both parents. So yeah it means me as the prospective father having a choice too. But because its not my body i get none. And never will.

    I get that. And I'm always sorry for a man who is against his partner's choice to have an abortion, but unfortunately what also factors in a woman's decision is the potential that they will be left parenting a child they didn't want in the first place ALONE. I didn't have an abortion, but both times I believed my partner would be with me for life. I have no regrets about having my children, but being a single mother is not a choice I would have made.

    Which is why, ultimately, the decision to have a baby is one that should never be taken as easily as the decision not to.


  • #308
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, but one can see the consequences elsewhere. It was in reply to valuing women, so don't say I derailed it, we live on a small planet, less than a grain of sand in the universe.

    So one less "life" being terminated before it can even think or breath isn't going to make a difference.


  • #309
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    kylith wrote: »
    Sorry? If I have sex at my most fertile point and the condom breaks then that's tough luck?
    Are you really saying that if a woman becomes pregnant as a result of rape then if she knows how pregnancy happens it's tough luck?


    No-one will ever legally be forced to have an abortion, and if someone forces/tries to force you there is legal comeback, but there are plenty who would force you to bear a child you don't want, and won't care about the months of nausea, pain, incontinence, diabetes, vaginal tearing, C-section scars or high blood pressure because, hey you can always 'just' give it up for adoption and hope it doesn't end up spending 18 years in a care home, then have to deal with it all again if they decide to track you down. Not to mention the poor child who may have to deal with being told their birth mother doesn't want to know them.

    No that is just careless, no one forced you have sex at that point in the cycle.
    Rape is different, it is forced, not a choice.

    On this planet, there are women who are forced to have abortions as reported in China and North Korea. Some women feel forced by circumstances to have an abortions.
    You would think women weren't designed for having babies reading your post.


  • #310
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    RobertKK wrote: »
    What about the father too?
    High profile abortions like the following



    Yes there are women who have no probably aborting and some do it multiple times, but pro-choice don't want the other side aired.

    People do things and regret them all of the time.

    Bit hypocritical to complain about what the pro choice side doesn't want aired. You haven't posted any stories of women who had an abortion and feel it was right thing to do. Why don't you put up some stories about people who gave up their child for adoption and regret it?

    Pots and kettles come to mind. You do the very thing you accuse the pro choice side of doing.


  • #311
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    RobertKK wrote: »
    That depends on how you value life.

    Just another cliché , we don't value life . Some lives yes , most lives no .


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  • #312
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Just because you have never met anybody does not mean they don't exist.

    My ex had the abortion in Marie Stopes. It was a monday in March time. She said she was still in tears during the abortion. Add to before and afterwards. She wasnt sure she was making the right decision (by any means) even until the last moment.

    The factors that led to the abortion were: age (we were 21 and 20), finances (though we both agreed we would be fine on that front), readiness for a child (something she was unsure of) and what other people would think of her.

    It basically being a decision which her parents influenced greatly and ultimately she went for it. It was extremely late for an abortion just under 2 weeks before they couldnt offer it at the clinic. It was an extremely tough spot to be in for her. On the one hand she had me supporting her in terms of saying look its not ideal but we love each other we can do this. And on the other hand she had religous parents who ironically were ashamed of their unmarried "young" daughter being pregnant.

    Every individual case is different but please dont justify pro-choice by saying you have never MET anybody traumatised by it. She was. And still is. 11 years later.

    Im not even anti-abortion. To make it clear. Im in the ridiculous camp who want something impossible - pro-choice for both parents. So yeah it means me as the prospective father having a choice too. But because its not my body i get none. And never will.

    I feel for your ex I really do but she is not representative of every woman. I don't regret my abortion, I'm very grateful I was able to have one despite the hoops I had to jump through. That's not to say I walked out and everything was fine, its a big deal having to travel and pregnancy is a time of huge hormonal upheaval. It takes time to recover and your emotions can be all over the place for a while but that's normal. But 8 years on I know it was the right choice and I wouldn't change a thing. Mind you I wasn't pushed into it and I dealt with it early on, my husband supported me 100% and we were old enough not to care about other people's opinions of it.

    What your ex is dealing with is not normal. Its just a shame she lives in a country with very little post abortion support. She should really think about getting proper counselling. She doesn't have to carry that guilt around forever.


  • #313
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No that is just careless, no one forced you have sex at that point in the cycle.
    Rape is different, it is forced, not a choice.

    On this planet, there are women who are forced to have abortions as reported in China and North Korea. Some women feel forced by circumstances to have an abortions.
    You would think women weren't designed for having babies reading your post.

    Yeah, you're right. People should just stop having sex unless they mean to conceive. I mean, it's not like we developed a whole heap of nerves down there for pleasure or anything... Oh wait...

    Forced abortion is wrong. Nobody is disputing that


  • #314
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Shrap wrote: »
    I get that. And I'm always sorry for a man who is against his partner's choice to have an abortion, but unfortunately what also factors in a woman's decision is the potential that they will be left parenting a child they didn't want in the first place ALONE. I didn't have an abortion, but both times I believed my partner would be with me for life. I have no regrets about having my children, but being a single mother is not a choice I would have made.

    Which is why, ultimately, the decision to have a baby is one that should never be taken as easily as the decision not to.
    Well in my case we had been together 3 years and I wasn't going anywhere. I'm still in touch with her today a decade later. But yes I agree that is a worry for many who have an unplanned pregnancy.

    A lot of people do decide to be single mothers - even when the father wants to be involved. Its a very very complex issue and very few cases are the same. The factors that go into abortion and how it affects the woman and man are very individual. I was cut up over it and still think about it sometimes. Whereas another man might think "phew lucky escape". All depends on the persons involved.


  • #315
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    smash wrote: »
    So one less "life" being terminated before it can even think or breath isn't going to make a difference.

    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.


  • #316
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Well in my case we had been together 3 years and I wasn't going anywhere. I'm still in touch with her today a decade later. But yes I agree that is a worry for many who have an unplanned pregnancy.

    A lot of people do decide to be single mothers - even when the father wants to be involved. Its a very very complex issue and very few cases are the same. The factors that go into abortion and how it affects the woman and man are very individual. I was cut up over it and still think about it sometimes. Whereas another man might think "phew lucky escape". All depends on the persons involved.


    I've never met anyone who decided to be a single parent just for the sake of being a single parent...


  • #317
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Just a question for those advocating adoption. 5,000 Irish women travel to the UK for a termination every year (that we know of). Do you think that there are a minimum of 5,000 couples looking to adopt children annually in Ireland?


  • #318
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.

    Or the next Hitler or Dr. Mengele.


  • #319
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.


    The person could have even more easily ended up in a condom, or even a sock, or onto a tampon...


  • #320
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.

    Or the next Hitler.

    It works both ways.


  • #321
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Yeah, you're right. People should just stop having sex unless they mean to conceive. I mean, it's not like we developed a whole heap of nerves down there for pleasure or anything... Oh wait...

    Forced abortion is wrong. Nobody is disputing that

    If they conceive and say the timing isn't right, they are treating abortion akin to contraception which is a very immature way to look at human life in whatever form.


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  • #322
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.

    Every time a person masturbates you may have lost out on the cure for cancer by this logic... There's always a road not taken,part of life. Could be the next Hitler,mass murderer etc too for all you know but possibilities are just possibilities, nothing more.


  • #323
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Or the next Hitler.

    It works both ways.


    Or the next shruikan2553, do we want that? :p


  • #324
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What your ex is dealing with is not normal.

    ???
    How can you say that it's not normal because you had a different experience of it.

    Would you like to be told you're not "normal"?

    It's just different. She sounds like she was pressured into it in the first place. Perfectly "normal" to regret doing something you were not sure about.


  • #325
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If they conceive and say the timing isn't right, they are treating abortion akin to contraception which is a very immature way to look at human life in whatever form.


    You could treat human life as sperm and an egg. After all, that is the foundations. Without a sperm and egg, there would be no human life.


  • #326
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No that is just careless, no one forced you have sex at that point in the cycle.

    Sorry hun not tonight, or any time actually! Because the reality is that I can get pregnant at any time during my cycle and there's a chance the condom might break.

    :rolleyes:
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Depends, you could have just terminated the life that would cure Alzheimers or the life who would have created the means to travel the universe.
    Should we force all women to endure pregnancy, unwanted or not, just in case?


  • #327
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    Every time a person masturbates you may have lost out on the cure for cancer by this logic... There's always a road not taken,part of life. Could be the next Hitler,mass murderer etc too for all you know but possibilities are just possibilities, nothing more.

    Masturbation doesn't create a life to destroy. You could easily have used a wet dream, but that natural way would not have suited your point of view.


  • #328
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    smash wrote: »
    Sorry hun not tonight, or any time actually! Because the reality is that I can get pregnant at any time during my cycle and there's a chance the condom might break.

    :rolleyes:

    Are condoms the only type of protection?


  • #329
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I've never met anyone who decided to be a single parent just for the sake of being a single parent...

    This "never met" anyone line of arguing has to stop. Can you not see how ridiculous it is?

    I've never met a rapist, serial killer, I've never met a zoologist or marine biologist, I've never met anybody from Guatemala and I've certainly never met anybody who plays the trombone.

    All these people do exist.

    Likewise some people get pregnant via one night stands or flings and decide to keeo the baby, in full knowledge its a decision to become a single parent - for the moment.


  • #330
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Masturbation doesn't create a life to destroy. You could easily have used a wet dream, but that natural way would not have suited your point of view.

    Sperm create life, don't they?
    bjork wrote: »
    Are condoms the only type of protection?

    Are all contraceptive fool proof?


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  • #331
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    smash wrote: »
    Sorry hun not tonight, or any time actually! Because the reality is that I can get pregnant at any time during my cycle and there's a chance the condom might break.

    :rolleyes:

    There is a varying degree of fertility.


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