‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:16AM

traprunner wrote: »

If you re-read my first post that you replied to you will see that I was calling the foetus a parasite and not a baby that has been born. I even underlined the word "until".

It doesn't matter, you are defining parasite incorrectly elsewhere.

sbsquarepants · 04-02-2015 11:17AM

Kenya Most Gout wrote: »

Abortion is the ultimate exercise is selfishness - "My happiness is more important than another human being's life".

What a pile of shíte.
Bringing a child into the world that you can't support (for whatever reason) that is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Shrap · 04-02-2015 11:20AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What a pile of shíte.
Bringing a child into the world that you can't support (for whatever reason) that is the ultimate act of selfishness thoughtlessness.

Can I just correct that please? I feel bad enough day to day about not being able to support my kids without being accused of selfishness too. It was thoughtless though.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:21AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What a pile of shíte.
Bringing a child into the world that you can't support (for whatever reason) that is the ultimate act of selfishness.

According to Tara, the abortion was the best thing for her as she and her partner have a road trip planned for the US for next year.

traprunner · 04-02-2015 11:21AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It doesn't matter, you are defining parasite incorrectly elsewhere.

No I don't. You misunderstand the definition.

Shrap · 04-02-2015 11:23AM

RobertKK wrote: »

According to Tara, the abortion was the best thing for her as she and her partner have a road trip planned for the US for next year.

...and know they're not in a position to support a child for the rest of it's born natural life at this stage?

Or do you reckon they only thought about their holiday? :pac:

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:24AM

traprunner wrote: »

No I don't. You misunderstand the definition.

I know what a parasite is, I studied them as part of my education for the work I do.

Your Superior · 04-02-2015 11:25AM

Reading this thread as someone who has not lived in Ireland for well over 40 years makes me very sad. The pro-lifers out there respect the life of a foetus more than the life of the woman carrying it. Between this and the same-sex marriage debates it's like being transported to the 1950s or the American Bible Belt.

Does Ireland really still have people who are so blinded by their beliefs? I have never come across this level of vitriol anywhere in the UK, the US outside of the bible belt, Europe or Australasia. It is mind-boggling to me.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:30AM

Shrap wrote: »

...and know they're not in a position to support a child for the rest of it's born natural life at this stage?

Or do you reckon they only thought about their holiday? :pac:

Well she mentioned the holiday first, the apartment was next and how the timing was wrong.

We have a road trip planned for the states next year, we are saving for a new apartment… I am just not ready … it’s not the best time for me right now…

DeltaWhite · 04-02-2015 11:30AM

The one thing that makes me laugh the most is how people just cannot stop involving themselves in places where they don't belong..

Here's the thing.. that woman's vagina DOES NOT affect me in any way, nor does her choice to terminate her foetus.. NO AFFECT...

I cant understand why all the hystericals are even getting their knickers in a twist.. Focus on your own life and not others... Its actually really simple to keep your nose out of other peoples business!

B_Wayne · 04-02-2015 11:32AM

In relation to the cost issue, it is very much a problem if for example a person can't afford to travel. Then it becomes a situation of abortion for those who can afford it and that simply results in illegal abortions or women carrying to term pregnancies that aren't wanted. That's undue psychological strain just because the right to travel is very much an issue of finance.

There's also the issue that going abroad is more of a mental strain that having a support network where you live.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:33AM

Your Superior wrote: »

Reading this thread as someone who has not lived in Ireland for well over 40 years makes me very sad. The pro-lifers out there respect the life of a foetus more than the life of the woman carrying it. Between this and the same-sex marriage debates it's like being transported to the 1950s or the American Bible Belt.

Does Ireland really still have people who are so blinded by their beliefs? I have never come across this level of vitriol anywhere in the UK, the US outside of the bible belt, Europe or Australasia. It is mind-boggling to me.

It is fine to support abortion as a choice if you believe it is fine if you never existed or if your loved one never existed because he/she was never given the chance of living because of abortion, because her mother had that choice on that person's existence.

seamus · 04-02-2015 11:33AM

Your Superior wrote: »

Does Ireland really still have people who are so blinded by their beliefs? I have never come across this level of vitriol anywhere in the UK, the US outside of the bible belt, Europe or Australasia. It is mind-boggling to me.

Yes, they exist, but by and large only come out on forums because they don't have to engage on a face-to-face level with anyone here to argue their point.

The abortion question is much less clear than same-sex marriage. There would still be a lot of people who are opposed to the availability of abortion, not on a religious basis, but on a gut feeling basis.
In my experience a lot of these people are torn - they understand the pro-choice arguments, but emotionally have difficulty standing on the pro-choice side because in their heads there is a child in the womb. Whether that comes from a religious upbringing or their peers or whatever, it probably varies.

That said, I have come across virtually no-one in day-to-day life who opposes abortion in the case of rape or fatal foetal abnormalities.

seamus · 04-02-2015 11:34AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is fine to support abortion as a choice if you believe it is fine if you never existed or if your loved one never existed because he/she was never given the chance of living because of abortion, because her mother had that choice on that person's existence.

Trillions of "people" "never existed" every day as sperm leave testicles for destinations unknown and unfertilised ova are shed from wombs.

If someone never existed, they never existed. That's a nonsense argument.

Tasden · 04-02-2015 11:34AM

DeltaWhite wrote: »

The one thing that makes me laugh the most is how people just cannot stop involving themselves in places where they don't belong..

Here's the thing.. that woman's vagina DOES NOT affect me in any way, nor does her choice to terminate her foetus.. NO AFFECT...

I cant understand why all the hystericals are even getting their knickers in a twist.. Focus on your own life and not others... Its actually really simple to keep your nose out of other peoples business!

Well in this case she's making her business known. But if she hadn't nobody would be involving themselves in her business.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:35AM

DeltaWhite wrote: »

The one thing that makes me laugh the most is how people just cannot stop involving themselves in places where they don't belong..

Here's the thing.. that woman's vagina DOES NOT affect me in any way, nor does her choice to terminate her foetus.. NO AFFECT...

I cant understand why all the hystericals are even getting their knickers in a twist.. Focus on your own life and not others... Its actually really simple to keep your nose out of other peoples business!

We all lived in that place.

Are we suppose to be silent about our former home in the womb of our mothers?

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:37AM

seamus wrote: »

Trillions of "people" "never existed" every day as sperm leave testicles for destinations unknown and unfertilised ova are shed from wombs.

If someone never existed, they never existed. That's a nonsense argument.

So, they never existed as life to start with.

Do women have abortions of something that doesn't exist?
Are they hypochondriacs?

AlexisM · 04-02-2015 11:38AM

myshirt wrote: »

Are you reading a different thread? Of course it is a child.

Draw a picture of a child. Draw a picture of 20 children. Draw a picture of 100 children.

How many have you drawn that are tiny clumps of cells the size of a peanut?

DeltaWhite · 04-02-2015 11:38AM

Omg, the dramatics is unbelievable...

Her womb, DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY! Her choice DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY!!

traprunner · 04-02-2015 11:39AM

RobertKK wrote: »

We all lived in that place.

Are we suppose to be silent about our former home in the womb of our mothers?

You must be very young then seeing that she is 24. Congrats growing up and getting educated so quickly. You were in your mothers womb, not Tara's or any other woman's. Your mother possibly had the option of getting the boat and choose not to. That does not give you the right to tell other peoples mothers what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 11:39AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is fine to support abortion as a choice if you believe it is fine if you never existed or if your loved one never existed because he/she was never given the chance of living because of abortion, because her mother had that choice on that person's existence.

Well I personally (if for some reason I ended up with a consciousness) would completely respect it if my mother had decided to abort me. I made her life very very difficult financially. She was not ready to have a child when she had me. She had no money, she was barely scraping by herself. We didn't exactly have much growing up. I'm glad she kept me as I now exist but would completely respect the idea of me being aborted.

Your Superior · 04-02-2015 11:40AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is fine to support abortion as a choice if you believe it is fine if you never existed or if your loved one never existed because he/she was never given the chance of living because of abortion, because her mother had that choice on that person's existence.

Yep, I'm fine with that. Nobody is alive unless they are born. Otherwise they are just a foetus. The mother should always have the choice, you seem to have zero respect for the life of the mother.

Drumpot · 04-02-2015 11:40AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What a pile of shíte.
Bringing a child into the world that you can't support (for whatever reason) that is the ultimate act of selfishness.

That reason is not really relevant in modern day Ireland. There are plenty of families who would love to adopt an unwanted child. I was only discussing my own adoption with Barnardos yesterday and casually asked what its like to adopt in Ireland. Its pretty much impossible because there simply aren't enough children, not because there aren't enough able families to support them.

Despite being an adopted child, I do believe in the mother having a right to decide. However I would certainly question the moral compass of somebody having an abortion simply because it doesn't suit them. Its depriving the child of life and a family of a child who they would love dearly.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:42AM

traprunner wrote: »

You must be very young then seeing that she is 24. Congrats growing up and getting educated so quickly. You were in your mothers womb, not Tara's or any other woman's. Your mother possibly had the option of getting the boat and choose not to. That does not give you the right to tell other peoples mothers what they can and can't do with their bodies.

My mother was against abortion, my right to life which I was given was never in doubt unless a natural abortion had happened.
It gave me a far more privileged chance of life before I was born due to the stance taken by my mother.

marienbad · 04-02-2015 11:46AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Though if one of the main "gripes" the girl has is the cost of the abortion then there is every right to judge.

Anyway you can get a Sail-Rail ticket from Dublin to London via Holyhead for less than 50 euros and hostels in London for a tenner a night. Whole gig re: travel costs can be accomplished for less than a serious night out on the town in cork (or anywhere).

But the key point for me is the facetiousness in complaining about the cost of it all. Irrespective of her "taking a human life" with her actions; she should know the abortion situation in this country before getting pregnant - not moan about the costs thereafter.

Its like getting done for speeding and complaining about the fine and wishing we had cheaper fines like other countries.

If you don't want to pay a fair whack of money then maybe:

1. Don't get pregnant.....

And/or

1a) having been careless/reckless/unfortunate enough to get pregnant, don't play the "poor me" card at having to pay the cost of a procedure that is fundamentally your own decision. You don't have to pay it. Have the baby....or quit moaning.

What a cruel and heartless post !

wonderfullife · 04-02-2015 11:48AM

Shrap wrote: »

As one of "the poor" you refer to, I can safely tell you it would be impossible for me to come up with 1000 in a matter of weeks without borrowing off a richer friend or family. Some people don't have richer family/friends. Most "poor" people run cars on the fume of petrol and pay the tax/insurance on a hand to mouth basis (thereby costing more to themselves in the long run). You're totally wrong about it not being an insurmountable prohibitive price. I couldn't get a credit union loan for 1000 on top of the loans taken to upgrade my heating system/plumbing/electrics in the house. I'm already paying that back at as much as I can afford and if the car dies, I'm fooked.

As for getting to London for under 50, I'm assuming you are talking about coach? Not the best return journey for a woman who has just had a medical procedure on her womb, is it? Ditto with staying in a hostel. Sure, I can think of nothing more suited to her physical/mental health than sharing a bathroom with a bunch of back packers.

I'm a single parent of two (one resulting from our "careless and reckless" mishap with a condom, unbeknownst until a month later) and I can also safely tell you that had I not had the full support of my family (including financially), it would have been a much better decision at the time to have an abortion. It's no joke raising kids on a shoe string and is definitely a drain on tax payers, a feeling in myself that is exacerbated each and every time I collect my social welfare. If I had had an abortion and waited until I was financially stable to raise a child (as I believe people should, although I didn't - knowing what I know now, like) I would still have produced children that would contribute to the economy eventually but would also have been better positioned to do the same, without having been a drain on tax payers in the first place.

All good reasons to have at least a subsidised abortion service in this country.

If you are in favour of subsidising abortions then you open the floodgates for people wanting all sorts of procedures subsidised. A tummy tuck or gastric op would in theory save tax payers a lot in the long run as obesity causes long term health problems and burdens the health infrastructure.

Incidentally when you look at your children do you still think abortion was the better option. Thats something people tend to overlook when trivialising abortion by saying "its just a fetus". Whatever the semantics, it does tend to turn into a baby.

AlexisM · 04-02-2015 11:48AM

RobertKK wrote: »

My mother was against abortion, my right to life which I was given was never in doubt unless a natural abortion had happened.
It gave me a far more privileged chance of life before I was born due to the stance taken by my mother.

What on earth does that even mean? 'a far more privileged chance of life'? What is that? The words don't even make sense strung together like that.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 11:50AM

Drumpot wrote: »

That reason is not really relevant in modern day Ireland. There are plenty of families who would love to adopt an unwanted child. I was only discussing my own adoption with Barnardos yesterday and casually asked what its like to adopt in Ireland. Its pretty much impossible because there simply aren't enough children, not because there aren't enough able families to support them.

Despite being an adopted child, I do believe in the mother having a right to decide. However I would certainly question the moral compass of somebody having an abortion simply because it doesn't suit them. Its depriving the child of life and a family of a child who they would love dearly.

I agree with most of your post.

It is argued Steve Jobs existed because abortion was illegal in the US when he was conceived.
He was adopted and when he met his biological mother, he thanked her for not aborting him, and thanking her for putting him up for adoption as he had a great childhood.
The world would have been a poorer place without him.

kylith · 04-02-2015 11:50AM

Drumpot wrote: »

That reason is not really relevant in modern day Ireland. There are plenty of families who would love to adopt an unwanted child. I was only discussing my own adoption with Barnardos yesterday and casually asked what its like to adopt in Ireland. Its pretty much impossible because there simply aren't enough children, not because there aren't enough able families to support them.

Despite being an adopted child, I do believe in the mother having a right to decide. However I would certainly question the moral compass of somebody having an abortion simply because it doesn't suit them. Its depriving the child of life and a family of a child who they would love dearly.

It is not any woman's job to put herself through a painful and dangerous experience to supply children for other people.

In fact, I can't think how I could carry a pregnancy and go about my daily life with people telling me how excited I must be and to have to see the look of judgement on their face when I tell them I'm giving it away. And it's not just friends and family; pregnant women are fair game for any Nosey Nelly on the street.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 11:55AM

kylith wrote: »

It is not any woman's job to put herself through a painful and dangerous experience to supply children for other people.

In fact, I can't think how I could carry a pregnancy and go about my daily life with people telling me how excited I must be and to have to see the look of judgement on their face when I tell them I'm giving it away. And it's not just friends and family; pregnant women are fair game for any Nosey Nelly on the street.

Plus, I previously provided two extensive papers that show women suffer more when it comes to adoption than abortion.

‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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