Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Boom__Boom · 02-02-2015 11:40PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Thank you for that

Gary just look at that and you will see my point

I'm geuinely nor trying pick holes in cork but I absolutely despise false dawn and reality must over come emotions yesterday and reality is cork had eleven starters from mayo

Connaifhlw didn't even start and he's young talent

Boom what your view on cork from kerry side so far

How as kerry man would you rate George durrant also please

There's enough football talent there for Cork to be competing at the top table, but I can't see anything but it ending in disaster this season with Cuthbert and his inexperienced selectors on the line.

Midfield looks like it could be a black-hole especially if anything happens Maguire - from what i've seen of Maguire he's a talent but it look like a fierce burden will be put on his shoulder. People in Cork seem to be hoping that Cuthbert and co learn from last season but I just don't see it happening. If Cork achieve anything it will be in spite of Cuthbert instead of because of him.

Know very little on Durrant but there was a fair bit of surprise to hear he'd been called into the Cork squad.

Hurleratheart · 03-02-2015 12:14AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Brendan Mccarthy I forget if he's available has start midfield terrific player captain dean Ryan cup winning midleton team last year

Butty and Beausang Gone from squad afaik

Hard lines on Cahill too as very close last year but injury hasn't helped him

Nothing written astone yet only Feb

Hurleratheart · 03-02-2015 12:45AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Richestown football game Saturday twelve thirty mallow

Any injuries after weekend???

You think they have a chance
I think they do but huge pressure both codes do both
I think club scene rockies Douglas will be strong next few years also

If concentrTing on football only I'd give this group a right chance even against an academy like The Sem - hot favs to win out tho Dingle wont be to shabby

Havent seen Rochestown football to much this year but this team don't know when to stop tho overall Rochestwon has desperate record in senior football - they've left more behind them last few years

You can't not rate a team with powter kingston ryle griffin o Brien liam o sullivan - to many good footballers but so
many duel players I'd worry they'll runout of steam
Powter minor football cork captain this year

All came true last day despite some concerns but players getting no rest - Young fellas I kno but still there training morning noon and night - school club minor dev squads

I wouldn't be surprised if they pull it off but Sem def have edge and a fair share if them beaten in Frewen last year will want to redem themselves

Worst possible result would be a draw

Gary Neville · 03-02-2015 01:11AM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

There's enough football talent there for Cork to be competing at the top table, but I can't see anything but it ending in disaster this season with Cuthbert and his inexperienced selectors on the line.

Midfield looks like it could be a black-hole especially if anything happens Maguire - from what i've seen of Maguire he's a talent but it look like a fierce burden will be put on his shoulder. People in Cork seem to be hoping that Cuthbert and co learn from last season but I just don't see it happening. If Cork achieve anything it will be in spite of Cuthbert instead of because of him.

Know very little on Durrant but there was a fair bit of surprise to hear he'd been called into the Cork squad.

That's a very accurate accessment, Boom Boom. Ian maguire hasn't even filled out properly yet and he can't be expected to match the likes of Sean Cavenagh and A O Shea - he and Kiely are 2 for the future but he will be pressed into action this season as we don't seem to have many options.

I cannot understand why we tried Cussen yet refused to try Sean Dineen and Ml O Laoire.

The quality anc character of the Cork Squad is such that the season won't be a disaster like last season - we'll get tough tests in Monagan and Donegal and Cuthbert won't be sleep walking come June/July.

The players have obviously decided that they have to put up with him and make the best of it but the fact that he's doing some of the coaching shows how he seeks control. Gavin accepted full responsibility for the loss to Donegal - he got the tactics wrong - Dublin Supporters are demanding and Gavin left the players off the hook - they would go through a brick wall for him. Cuthbert could have held his hands up after the PUC Debacle but he dropped players and hung them out to dry. They know what he's like and most players thought the set-up was a shambles. As recently as the Waterford game Cuthbert criticised DOC for missing a late free - he just can't help himself. Kerry players have total belief in E FitzM - Donegal the same with Jimmy Mac - Monaghna/Clerkin etc etc.

IMO he'll get another term - but he won't give the players the lift they need to get back as a real contender.

Orizio · 03-02-2015 04:06AM

Anyone have the Minor and Senior squads lads? Supposed to have been announced to both panels recently.

solwhit12 · 03-02-2015 06:55AM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

There's enough football talent there for Cork to be competing at the top table, but I can't see anything but it ending in disaster this season with Cuthbert and his inexperienced selectors on the line.

Midfield looks like it could be a black-hole especially if anything happens Maguire - from what i've seen of Maguire he's a talent but it look like a fierce burden will be put on his shoulder. People in Cork seem to be hoping that Cuthbert and co learn from last season but I just don't see it happening. If Cork achieve anything it will be in spite of Cuthbert instead of because of him.

Know very little on Durrant but there was a fair bit of surprise to hear he'd been called into the Cork squad.

What sort of crap is that there is nothing wrong with Cuthbert management.people hound him over the Kerry game last year when nothing went right these things happen.the same happened the hurlers against tipp but nothing is said about that.but I'm sure if we get a few lucky goals and referring decisions like yereselvels we won't be far away but unfortunately our players haven't learned the art of diving like the gooch and o donaghue yet.

Orizio · 03-02-2015 08:42AM

A 12 point hammering at home to one of the more talented Cork football squads = these things happen???

Wonder what club you are from.

Orizio · 03-02-2015 08:53AM

solwhit12 wrote: »

the same happened the hurlers against tipp but nothing is said about that.

This is true, JBM got off easily last year. Not that it excuses Cuthebert.

zetecescort · 03-02-2015 09:47AM

Orizio wrote: »

This is true, JBM got off easily last year. Not that it excuses Cuthebert.

Got to an All Ireland final in 2013, Munster champions last year. Disappointing performance against Tipp but JBM had plenty credit built up.

thinkstoomuch1 · 03-02-2015 11:38AM

solwhit12 wrote: »

What sort of crap is that there is nothing wrong with Cuthbert management.people hound him over the Kerry game last year when nothing went right these things happen.the same happened the hurlers against tipp but nothing is said about that.but I'm sure if we get a few lucky goals and referring decisions like yereselvels we won't be far away but unfortunately our players haven't learned the art of diving like the gooch and o donaghue yet.

The point is though that this is not a one off performance that it just happened

Dublin the league game was one game
Kerry, the night mare in cork worst defeat in thirty years
The scraping by tipperary
The leaving of two players
The non realistic view midfield was a shambles all year and no fix in place

Waterford loss I don't buy can be forgotten in cork should have won it still

You seem to think that one game he has redeemed he's record
He hasn't
He didn't get hounded
What happened was last like you see in top elite teams sport that have minimum standards of acceptance he got criticism for making same mistake again and again

The jbm argument is imo not correlated as it's different in jbm has a huge credit rating built up from senior all Ireland win, a minor win and the all Ireland final with a team that over achieved
You go to a bank and ask for a loan if you have a good credit rating you will get it over the guy with no credit rating
Cuthbhert or any of he's selection team bar Flanagan have no proven success at even club level
That's why there's a lack of confidence that is totally justified

He also surrounded himself with Johnny crowley and ger cunningham something this management up to this year didn't do
People have criticism of jbm and have here regularly for lack of tactically astute mindedness that's absolutely vital to win an all ireland and no team imo will win an all ireland without it
However jbm is still out of the options available is the best man to lead cork as if he left this year and one of the possible candidates tool over cork were going backwards have no doubt about it

That's not the case regards the current football set up where if he doesn't win there's at least three candidates with proven experience that would jump at the chance to work with the golden great great I mean really great talent available

That myth that kerry were lucky to win an all ireland imo is incorrect
Kerry won over an average team compared to the great teams of kerry becoming good and having an effective, co herrent modern system of play with both a plan a and b that unlike cork actually got the best out of players in a sytrem that played to their strengths and not their weakness
Also players like o sullivan were reinvented and young players like Murphy were developed from potential talent to a top class inter county players due to the awesmoric coaching of cian o Neill

If you can please show me such example in cork I'd review my assement of management last year
The statistics from the match in the Examiner today are very significant

Dublin won twenty five out of forty six kickouts of which twenty eight were short kick outs of total over both teams

Dublin had marginally more possession in just over half yet they never went long to midfield
When teams go long cork are in huge trouble
Corks tackle count was 63 to cork fifty two and when you look at Dublin under strength team to eleven starters from last year for cork it shows why

Dublin imo have huge scope of improvements
Cork are training since November
Cork only in the forwards got six from play
With the forwards we have that's a poor return imo

Dublin also had eleven turnover where cork just had eight against them but again look at the Dublin young team thar played

The cork scoring chances were 16/31 to Dublin 16/28
Not a great difference for cork with eleven of the team that played mayo

The key point also was in the tackle count only forward Dublin tackled was mcanman with eight tackles which imo shows that the forward did not do what mayo or kerry or Dublin in championship will do which is high press intensity tackling in side cork half
Donegal and monaghan will also do this
Cork were allowed build play from deep
When that is stopped cork are in trouble

A bit like in rubgy you won't win a game if your having a team with a running full back and an outhalf that can't kick for territory or field position but there only way forward is like cork run it out from the back

The good teams will realise this and force cork to kick long as in the big games they will slow down cork by fouling if needs be and cork need a plan b
If Paul flynn was there he would have caused cork huge problem with he's high end press in your face tackling

Interesting point cork three best defenders were cadogan on eight and loughrey on eight and colm o driscoll on eight
Cadogan must start full back but through default only over injures went in there
Loughrey was good but this statistics doesn't show when one v one he was beaten time and again as he's easily turned but like I said Sunday in a group defence he's fine and imo be much better half back but is not or never will be imo a corner back

Colm o driscoll had eight tackles which is good but that was never a problem of he's game it's going forward is the problem imo
This win is been seen as the end of cork problems by some
Imo it's clear that cork with stronger team that only just won at home where we could have conceded three goals there imo huge problems in this team
Just because Dublin didnt expose them doesn't mean their not their

thinkstoomuch1 · 03-02-2015 11:44AM

Orizio wrote: »

Anyone have the Minor and Senior squads lads? Supposed to have been announced to both panels recently.

Senior is tonight I think being cut the minor panel has been cut but injuries or form obviously it could change but the management imo have a pretty good understanding of the core of their team
It's a very strong panel from what I heard this mornings if the panel is correct, extremely strong be fair but some good hurler didn't make it as there's huge competition

Froggyno11 · 03-02-2015 11:47AM

Orizio wrote: »

This is true, JBM got off easily last year. Not that it excuses Cuthebert.

To be fair JBM has done a very good job with a limited panel of players, you compare the current panel to the one in 1999 how many would make that team? I know the game has changed since then but to me there is no comparison a bit of cuteness and we would have won the All Ire two years ago, it would of been compared to the miracle of the loaves and fishes. I still think we are outside the top 5 in the country.

The football imo is a different story with the last 10 years we we have produced footballer after footballer from junior to senior with little success, Cuthbert a very knowledgeable football man but communications skills let him down, there is no two men in the county would pick the same startling line up which in one way is a good sign but what happened against Kerry last year was unforgettable, no problem with playing to a system when it works but when it gets destroyed you have to change, its easy to sit behind a screen and talk when your on the line its a different story but all this criticism comes from our lack of success.

thinkstoomuch1 · 03-02-2015 11:49AM

Orizio wrote: »

This is true, JBM got off easily last year. Not that it excuses Cuthebert.

I think a lot of that was down to he's term being up and the huge worry that an unproven manager would be put in as the availability of candidates were slim
Interesting an ex cork manager hurling could be making a return to management maybe soon if things pan out as I heard he's on the radar with one inter county team
Could be an interesting development in the months ahead

thinkstoomuch1 · 03-02-2015 11:55AM

Froggyno11 wrote: »

To be fair JBM has done a very good job with a limited panel of players, you compare the current panel to the one in 1999 how many would make that team? I know the game has changed since then but to me there is no comparison a bit of cuteness and we would have won the All Ire two years ago, it would of been compared to the miracle of the loaves and fishes. I still think we are outside the top 5 in the country.

The football imo is a different story with the last 10 years we we have produced footballer after footballer from junior to senior with little success, Cuthbert a very knowledgeable football man but communications skills let him down, there is no two men in the county would pick the same startling line up which in one way is a good sign but what happened against Kerry last year was unforgettable, no problem with playing to a system when it works but when it gets destroyed you have to change, its easy to sit behind a screen and talk when your on the line its a different story but all this criticism comes from our lack of success.

I'd agree totally
Cork football has this culture of do not critise for years and we see good talent not developed and cork wants more success
The last thing we want is a Larry Tompkins seven year term
Cuthbhert has a lot of skills but man management and coaching was the problem but if he had given himself a back round proven successful management team he could been fine
Worry is cork are now playing catch up
Were a year behind kerry and Dublin and while we strive to get up to last year level there working on moving on
Cork are striving to perfect the blanket
Dublin have a system just incorporating the blanket to them
Kerry have the blanket but have no doubt will evolve it again
Cork having a blanket won't work in it needs that and much more
We have huge ground to make up

solwhit12 · 03-02-2015 12:07PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

The point is though that this is not a one off performance that it just happened

Dublin the league game was one game
Kerry, the night mare in cork worst defeat in thirty years
The scraping by tipperary
The leaving of two players
The non realistic view midfield was a shambles all year and no fix in place

Waterford loss I don't buy can be forgotten in cork should have won it still

You seem to think that one game he has redeemed he's record
He hasn't
He didn't get hounded
What happened was last like you see in top elite teams sport that have minimum standards of acceptance he got criticism for making same mistake again and again

The jbm argument is imo not correlated as it's different in jbm has a huge credit rating built up from senior all Ireland win, a minor win and the all Ireland final with a team that over achieved
You go to a bank and ask for a loan if you have a good credit rating you will get it over the guy with no credit rating
Cuthbhert or any of he's selection team bar Flanagan have no proven success at even club level
That's why there's a lack of confidence that is totally justified

He also surrounded himself with Johnny crowley and ger cunningham something this management up to this year didn't do
People have criticism of jbm and have here regularly for lack of tactically astute mindedness that's absolutely vital to win an all ireland and no team imo will win an all ireland without it
However jbm is still out of the options available is the best man to lead cork as if he left this year and one of the possible candidates tool over cork were going backwards have no doubt about it

That's not the case regards the current football set up where if he doesn't win there's at least three candidates with proven experience that would jump at the chance to work with the golden great great I mean really great talent available

That myth that kerry were lucky to win an all ireland imo is incorrect
Kerry won over an average team compared to the great teams of kerry becoming good and having an effective, co herrent modern system of play with both a plan a and b that unlike cork actually got the best out of players in a sytrem that played to their strengths and not their weakness
Also players like o sullivan were reinvented and young players like Murphy were developed from potential talent to a top class inter county players due to the awesmoric coaching of cian o Neill

If you can please show me such example in cork I'd review my assement of management last year
The statistics from the match in the Examiner today are very significant

Dublin won twenty five out of forty six kickouts of which twenty eight were short kick outs of total over both teams

Dublin had marginally more possession in just over half yet they never went long to midfield
When teams go long cork are in huge trouble
Corks tackle count was 63 to cork fifty two and when you look at Dublin under strength team to eleven starters from last year for cork it shows why

Dublin imo have huge scope of improvements
Cork are training since November
Cork only in the forwards got six from play
With the forwards we have that's a poor return imo

Dublin also had eleven turnover where cork just had eight against them but again look at the Dublin young team thar played

The cork scoring chances were 16/31 to Dublin 16/28
Not a great difference for cork with eleven of the team that played mayo

The key point also was in the tackle count only forward Dublin tackled was mcanman with eight tackles which imo shows that the forward did not do what mayo or kerry or Dublin in championship will do which is high press intensity tackling in side cork half
Donegal and monaghan will also do this
Cork were allowed build play from deep
When that is stopped cork are in trouble

A bit like in rubgy you won't win a game if your having a team with a running full back and an outhalf that can't kick for territory or field position but there only way forward is like cork run it out from the back

The good teams will realise this and force cork to kick long as in the big games they will slow down cork by fouling if needs be and cork need a plan b
If Paul flynn was there he would have caused cork huge problem with he's high end press in your face tackling

Interesting point cork three best defenders were cadogan on eight and loughrey on eight and colm o driscoll on eight
Cadogan must start full back but through default only over injures went in there
Loughrey was good but this statistics doesn't show when one v one he was beaten time and again as he's easily turned but like I said Sunday in a group defence he's fine and imo be much better half back but is not or never will be imo a corner back

Colm o driscoll had eight tackles which is good but that was never a problem of he's game it's going forward is the problem imo
This win is been seen as the end of cork problems by some
Imo it's clear that cork with stronger team that only just won at home where we could have conceded three goals there imo huge problems in this team
Just because Dublin didnt expose them doesn't mean their not their

The real test will come in the championship I know that but he deserve s a chance last year there was a lot of retirements and Sheehan went to OZ .its not easy to replace those players as the hurlers found out since the great team of 04/05 .its only the league and if clare beat Limerick the will be a huge challenge and that's before Kerry.look we will have to wait and see.Kerry supporters can laugh away that suits cork fine they have been blowing us up for years and we couldn't beat them in crocker.

darragh_haven · 03-02-2015 03:01PM

Tipperary senior defender makes club move to last year’s Cork championship finalists http://jrnl.ie/1916650 via The42.ie

darragh_haven · 03-02-2015 03:02PM

Tipperary senior defender makes club move to last year’s Cork championship finalists http://jrnl.ie/1916650 via The42.ie

Producer Ben · 03-02-2015 05:12PM

Cork intermediate hurlers had a practice game last night in Cloughduv. Anyone know what kind of panel they'll have?

wackokid · 03-02-2015 05:37PM

Why would a student in Galway, live in Courtmacsherry on the south coast of Cork?
Tis a luvly spot for sure but ...............................
He could be the missing link for Ross as they did leak too many easy scores.
Just curious................surely TTM will know?

darragh_haven · 03-02-2015 05:53PM

wackokid wrote: »

Why would a student in Galway, live in Courtmacsherry on the south coast of Cork?
Tis a luvly spot for sure but ...............................
He could be the missing link for Ross as they did leak too many easy scores.
Just curious................surely TTM will know?

He was a student in Galway. Now lives and works in west cork

wackokid · 03-02-2015 06:14PM

Thanks Darragh, that explains it.
He can show them his RED card from Armagh game on Sunday.............ya boy ya.

KrustyUCC · 03-02-2015 08:36PM

how can he choose to play for Ross which is over 20 mins away and there is a senior football club he will pretty much have to pass to get to ross

Gary Neville · 03-02-2015 08:47PM

solwhit12 wrote: »

The real test will come in the championship I know that but he deserve s a chance last year there was a lot of retirements and Sheehan went to OZ .its not easy to replace those players as the hurlers found out since the great team of 04/05 .its only the league and if clare beat Limerick the will be a huge challenge and that's before Kerry.look we will have to wait and see.Kerry supporters can laugh away that suits cork fine they have been blowing us up for years and we couldn't beat them in crocker.

I suppose you could argue that last years league was not conducive to learning. However FitzMaurice learned a lot from the Tralee game.

The dissatisfaction was a combination of refusing to change a flawed system until 2 weeks before the AI QF and his general poor man management skills, dictatorial style and the poor morale in the camp. He got very little right. The good performance v Mayo was inspite of him and not due to him.

However, we are lumbered with him and it's a dilemma - I want Cork to do well but that will probably mean another term for this guy and I doubt that he can deliver an AI in spite of the quality of players.

wackokid · 03-02-2015 08:50PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

how can he choose to play for Ross which is over 20 mins away and there is a senior football club he will pretty much have to pass to get to ross

Don't think the parish rule applies in this case as he is a stranger to both clubs. In any case these rules are not enforced in Cork football and I don't need to name any players or clubs.

Gary Neville · 04-02-2015 01:39AM

Early days yet but at least we know everyone is back bar the hurlers, Butcher and Dineen.

What will our c/ship 15 be :-

I'd guess - KOH, Galvin, Shields, Clancy, Loughrey, Cadogan, BOD, Goold, Maguire, O Rourke, Kelly, Collins, CON, Donncha, Hurley

Some really tough calls - Dorman, Tomas C, Kiely, R Deane, COD, Vaughan, Cronin, Kerrigan, Crowley, Hayes, Hodnett, Goulding, Barry OD, Hanrahan - we could put out a pretty decent reserve side.

zetecescort · 04-02-2015 09:50AM

Am I the only one who thinks Loughrey isn't up to inter county football. I know he can be picked out of position in the corner but Every player, never mind just defenders should have some idea at tackling and shadowing their man.

Gary Neville · 04-02-2015 10:06AM

I think Loughrey is unfortunate, at the moment in that he's being asked to fill a gap in the corner and his best position is wing back. He's definately up to IC Level and would be a regular for a lot of teams but I don't think he's top drawer.

He's fit with a great engine but doesn't see the plays and will often play a poor pass - he coughed up 2 pts in quick succession by giving away a cheap turn-over and then McM easily rounded him and scored - Kevin McM is elusive but Lougrey was goal side and should have clsoed him down IMO - he's not great at the tackle.

I'd have Tomas Clancy, Crowley and maybe Dorman (depending on how he develops) in before him but u can ceertainly make a case for hin inclusion and his attitude and application seem great so u can understand why Cuthbert picks him.

big_drive · 04-02-2015 10:14AM

Any word on full hurling panel?

I know one of the young lads who started in the Waterford Crystal final has been told he won't be involved in league panel so wondering is there an official panel being announced in the next couple days?

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 10:22AM

big_drive wrote: »

Any word on full hurling panel?

I know one of the young lads who started in the Waterford Crystal final has been told he won't be involved in league panel so wondering is there an official panel being announced in the next couple days?

It has been finalised for the league and more than one has been ommitted from senior league panel

thinkstoomuch1 · 04-02-2015 10:26AM

Gary Neville wrote: »

I think Loughrey is unfortunate, at the moment in that he's being asked to fill a gap in the corner and his best position is wing back. He's definately up to IC Level and would be a regular for a lot of teams but I don't think he's top drawer.

He's fit with a great engine but doesn't see the plays and will often play a poor pass - he coughed up 2 pts in quick succession by giving away a cheap turn-over and then McM easily rounded him and scored - Kevin McM is elusive but Lougrey was goal side and should have clsoed him down IMO - he's not great at the tackle.

I'd have Tomas Clancy, Crowley and maybe Dorman (depending on how he develops) in before him but u can ceertainly make a case for hin inclusion and his attitude and application seem great so u can understand why Cuthbert picks him.

You unfortunately are replacing like with like In dorman as proves with cork under twenty one last year and v Kildare league is not anywhere suited to the full back line

Clancy is not a full back and was in trouble at times yes had one good game v Kerry in killarney two years ago but game was over at this stage

Crowley is the only half back with focused and concentration for corner as others are awesome half backs but natural instinct is attack

Corner back play is a defined specialist role in defending

Loughrey is not or never will be top drawer in he's played out of positions

As proved with highest eight tackles v Dublin he's great in the tackle like choke tackle what he's poor in I'd the actual ability to stay tight and not be turned

Corner back he's too loose for the sera
At half back in a blanket he's brilliant as he's physically in strength in tackle rather than mark space is brilliant

The key difference is he's good in the tackle but not good defending space or one v one
Put him in a bunch of defended he will win the tackle nine out of ten times and is a superb attacker as against mayo proved

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