31% of the US public believe that humans never evolved

Wibbs · 30-01-2015 10:20AM

Grayson wrote: »

Well statistically speaking.... If we ever get to the point where we are scientifically advanced enough to replicate the big back (or whatever happened) we could technically create another universe. Now if we accept that it might be possible to do it, then we would technically some day be the creators of a universe. Now in that universe, in a galaxy, in a solar system a civilisation might evolve on a planet. they could reach a stage of advancement where they would create a universe and so on.... Since it would technically go on for a near infinite number of universes there's no reason to think that if the above was possible we'd be the first universe in the chain.

Aye, I've long considered a wacky notion that if we extend the gaia principle to the universe, intelligent life like ours might well be the reproductive system of the "organism" we call the universe. The VR universe is an interesting idea. It would mean that there was at least one "real" universe at point zero, or maybe not? Maybe the terms are too simplistic? That there is little or no difference between a "virtual" universe and a "real" one?

Antar Bolaeisk · 30-01-2015 10:36AM

Grayson wrote: »

Well statistically speaking.... If we ever get to the point where we are scientifically advanced enough to replicate the big back (or whatever happened) we could technically create another universe. Now if we accept that it might be possible to do it, then we would technically some day be the creators of a universe. Now in that universe, in a galaxy, in a solar system a civilisation might evolve on a planet. they could reach a stage of advancement where they would create a universe and so on.... Since it would technically go on for a near infinite number of universes there's no reason to think that if the above was possible we'd be the first universe in the chain.

So technically it's possible to be rational and yet at the same time be open to the chance that the universe didn't spontaneously come into existence.

That doesn't in any way even vaguely imply that God exists. I'm actually more likely to think that some bloke in a lab (that i have no evidence for) created the universe rather than a magical mystical being.

(I've also heard the same scenario explained as creating a virtual reality world. In that VR world, which is a perfect replica of ours, all the people are AI's that don't know they are AI's. they would eventually create a VR with AI's. And you can see where that goes).

There's absolutely no evidence to believe that the above are actually even slightly possible.

We could all be just something's equivalent of a random number generator

valoren · 30-01-2015 10:37AM

I call them the Thickeratti.

Akrasia · 30-01-2015 11:58AM

I think surveys like this overstate the number of morons in the U.S.

The question about the number of days it takes for the earth to orbit the sun does't necessarily indicate that the person doesn't know that the earth orbits the sun, it's just an indicator that these ordinary people do not automatically link the passage of a year, to the orbit of the earth and when asked this question on the spot, they drew a blank

For most people, a year is associated with birthdays and holidays and seasons, and while the vast majority of people should intellectually know that the earths solar orbit defines one earth year, it's not in the 'intuitive' part of the brain (system 1 as described by Daniel Kahneman) but in the more reflective part of the brain. (system 2)

(This is the reason why people often blurt out the wrong answers to very easy questions despite them 'knowing' the answer)

In relation to evolution, this is an issue where politics and other very strongly held beliefs influence the answers people give to these questions

For People who say that they do not believe in evolution, if you probe their actual beliefs, you will probably find that they been grossly misinformed on what evolution actually is with pithey statements like "evolution is like an explosion in a junkyard making a boeing 747", and if you explain to them how evolution actually works, they'll happily go along with the majority of it up until a point where it conflicts with a political or religious belief and then they stop engaging

This is a congnitive dissonance at work, where people are being expected to choose between two competing frameworks, and they go with the one that is more deeply entrenched.

The problem with America is not that the people are stupid, it is that the media and political system are so divisive. Conservatives only consume conservative media, liberals only consume liberal media, and they are being constantly re-inforced that their view of the world is reasonable and everyone else is stupid and wrong.

America needs to regulate it's media in order to protect itself from this trap it has fallen into. I'm not talking about censorship, but it should be illegal for a major news organisation to deliberately report news that it knows to be false and misleading.

It's illegal for a solicitor to deliberately give bad advice, or for an accountant to deliberately misinform his clients, but with the media, they can print any lies that they like and are protected by the first ammendment, and even it is proven that they knew they were lies when they printed them, they are still protected by the constitution.

SpaceTime · 30-01-2015 12:05PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

From my experience of the US school system, we started the day by praying to a flag. I wouldn't really expect much.

Swap flag for crucifix and quadruple the number of "prayers" and you've got the Irish school system.

Honestly we are in NO position to criticise the American education system on grounds of religiously! Despite everything, the USA is actually a secular county with legal and enforced church state separation.
Yes they have their very loud and very religious lobbyists and religion can be more "in your face" there but they do have a fully secular public school system which is absolutely not the case in Ireland where 96%!!!! of schools are run by religious communities and 90% are Catholic church organisations.

iDave · 30-01-2015 12:07PM

As far as I'm concerned evolution is a reality. A reality we should be thankful for as we wouldn't be here for it.
I've yet to hear any argument that comes close to disproving it but no doubt that J C fella that trolls the A+A forum will make a weak attempt along with lots of smileys.

seamus · 30-01-2015 12:08PM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

That is incorrect... it's a fact & theory. A phrase which was used as the title of an article by paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould in 1981. He describes fact in science as meaning data, 'not absolute certainty' but "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse (in his words) to withhold provisional assent. But it is still not 100% fact.

I'm afraid you're the one who is incorrect.

Evolution occurs. That is a fact. It has been seen to occur in the lab, DNA analysis proves evolutionary links between living and extinct species. Evolution happens. That's fact. There is zero debate about whether evolution happens.

The "theory" part is about the nature of this evolution - the how, why, when and where of it. This called "The Theory of Evolution".

Gravity is the oft-quoted example to illustrate it, and it's as relevant here. Gravity happens. That's a fact, indisputable. When I drop a book from my hand, it hurtles towards the centre of the earth. If anyone tried to claim that gravity is only a theory, you could just push them over to demonstrate how completely stupid they are.

There is however a theoretical component - the how, why, what and where of gravity. And yes, this is called "The Theory of Gravitation".

Don't conflate the theory with the fact. Evolution is not a theory.

30-01-2015 12:11PM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What a boring world it would be if every human being had the exact same belief/thought system. In 100 years it could all change again into some other philosophy - belief - system.

I agree and disagree to a point. I absolutely agree that a uniformity in belief across our species would be boring. If we all liked the same music - we all had the same conclusions about philosophy - and so forth.

But I do not think that having a species that ensured their beliefs tracked with reality would necessarily result in such conformity or boredom. We can maintain the diversity you treasure so much - while not having to sacrifice reason and reality in the process.

After all does near total or total universal consensus on other scientific laws - such as gravity for example - suddenly stifle individuality and variety? Clearly not. And society is made worse by those who do not track their beliefs with that reality - such as stepping off buildings thinking they can fly.

I treasure diversity of thought as much as you do - but not to the degree that I think we require a subset of our society believing fantastical nonsense - or denying basic reality.

RecordStraight · 30-01-2015 12:11PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

Swap flag for crucifix and quadruple the number of "prayers" and you've got the Irish school system.

Honestly we are in NO position to criticise the American education system on grounds of religiously! Despite everything, the USA is actually a secular county with legal and enforced church state separation.
Yes they have their very loud and very religious lobbyists and religion can be more "in your face" there but they do have a fully secular public school system which is absolutely not the case in Ireland where 96%!!!! of schools are run by religious communities and 90% are Catholic church organisations.

This post comes to you from 1984.

SpaceTime · 30-01-2015 12:13PM

They just don't like admitting that they've very distant cousins of not only monkys but cats, cows, whales and if you go back a bit further birds, further still, insects and plants.
You share a good 20% of your DNA with a banana!

Personally I'm very proud of my bacteria-like ancestors! They did great work on building this ecosystem!

Drumpot · 30-01-2015 12:21PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I treasure diversity of thought as much as you do - but not to the degree that I think we require a subset of our society believing fantastical nonsense - or denying basic reality.

When I read this part I couldnt help thinking about world war z.

In a world plagued by zombies , only Israel has protected itself properly with a wall around a city.

Something on the lines of They had some sort of system whereby they have 10 people who have to take a rational view of certain myths but one of these 10 always has to take the opposite view of the General consensus, no matter how ridiculous that stance can appear. And they have to do allthey can to prove it.

seamus · 30-01-2015 12:22PM

One of the most exciting confirmations that's come out of evolutionary science in the last 30 years is the fact that dinosaurs didn't actually "die off", they're still here, flying around and twittering and chirping at us every day. And even better that they come from the Therapod line - the line of T.Rex and Velociraptor - cool!

I mean scientists have kind of known/suspected it for a very long time, but it's only in recent times with modern analysis techniques that it's come to be almost universally accepted as fact.

30-01-2015 12:31PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Something on the lines of They had some sort of system whereby they have 10 people who have to take a rational view of certain myths but one of these 10 always has to take the opposite view of the General consensus, no matter how ridiculous that stance can appear. And they have to do allthey can to prove it.

Sounds like science to me. Look at the history of plate tectonics - symbiogenesis from Lynn Marguis - the concept that heavy things fall no faster than smaller things - and much more. Quite often in science a new idea results from that 1 person in 1000 who stands up and attempts to prove the exact opposite of what everyone else took for granted as being true.

SpaceTime · 30-01-2015 12:35PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

This post comes to you from 1984.

2015 actually unless the Irish school system was completely rebuilt since last week almost none of its policies or structures have changed since 1984 or 1924 either.

We are still *debating* whether public schools should have the right to prioritise admissions based on religious background for example. Teachers still don't have the same protection against discrimination as every other employee in the state (private and public sector) etc etc etc

Ireland's changed dramatically but the school system's still largely stuck in another era entirely with the only chicks of light being Educate Together.

All I'm saying is that Irish online sneering at the secular American education system on the grounds of American religiosity is setting off irony and hypocrisy alarms everywhere!

There is a problem with the far right and religious extremism pushing back on secularism in the US but they do have strongly secular foundations and constitutional underpinnings that we sorely lack here.

We still have prayers every day in the Oireachtas at the opening of sessions!

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/a-misc/prayer.htm

cerastes · 30-01-2015 12:45PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Because they have an influence on which government controls the most powerful country in the world.

No they dont, their influence is minimal really,

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well a sign of intelligence is actually learning on your own and not relying on what you're taught.

yes, Id agree

bb1234567 wrote: »

because thats over 100 million stupid people in a very powerful country, their vote could have effects on americas international affairs and relations with many other countries

See your quote above.
US citizens dont hold a massive sway over what their Govt does, anymore than we do.
The US govt (most Govts) does what it wants and for convenience tries to convince its population that is whats best for them and their country.

Grayson wrote: »

Well statistically speaking.... If we ever get to the point where we are scientifically advanced enough to replicate the big back (or whatever happened) we could technically create another universe. Now if we accept that it might be possible to do it, then we would technically some day be the creators of a universe. Now in that universe, in a galaxy, in a solar system a civilisation might evolve on a planet. they could reach a stage of advancement where they would create a universe and so on.... Since it would technically go on for a near infinite number of universes there's no reason to think that if the above was possible we'd be the first universe in the chain.

So technically it's possible to be rational and yet at the same time be open to the chance that the universe didn't spontaneously come into existence.

That doesn't in any way even vaguely imply that God exists. I'm actually more likely to think that some bloke in a lab (that i have no evidence for) created the universe rather than a magical mystical being.

(I've also heard the same scenario explained as creating a virtual reality world. In that VR world, which is a perfect replica of ours, all the people are AI's that don't know they are AI's. they would eventually create a VR with AI's. And you can see where that goes).

There's absolutely no evidence to believe that the above are actually even slightly possible.

Twilight zone?

PopePalpatine · 30-01-2015 01:37PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Aye, I've long considered a wacky notion that if we extend the gaia principle to the universe, intelligent life like ours might well be the reproductive system of the "organism" we call the universe. The VR universe is an interesting idea. It would mean that there was at least one "real" universe at point zero, or maybe not? Maybe the terms are too simplistic? That there is little or no difference between a "virtual" universe and a "real" one?

The multiverse hypothesis makes my head hurt.

Magico Gonzalez · 30-01-2015 02:00PM

7 out of 10 is not bad for a country that size. It's pretty churlish to use it as a way to re-inforce stereotypes.

What % of those surveyed finished high school / live in poverty / live in the bible belt.

Honestly, given the amount of votes the horrendous current version of the Rep. party got in the mid terms, this is almost refreshing.

Wibbs · 30-01-2015 02:03PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The multiverse hypothesis makes my head hurt.

Ditto. Certaintly the multiverse fudge to cover arses the cracks in quantum theory and don't get me going on the ballsology that is "dark" matter and energy.

Son Of A Vidic · 30-01-2015 02:08PM

sxt wrote: »

That is shocking and scary, is it not ?

No it is not. I welcome people having differing beliefs and opinions. Regardless of whether I feel they have a sound basis for them or not. And the only scary thing about this is, the people who can't seem to accept differing opinions or beliefs.

osarusan · 30-01-2015 03:30PM

Science?

F**K YEAH!

SpaceTime · 31-01-2015 07:58PM

31% of the population is as think as two short planks. If you've ever had to deal face to face with the "general public" you'll soon realise this!

31% of the US public believe that humans never evolved

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