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Am I being unreasonable?

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    #212
    ice.cube
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭ice.cube


    bren2002 wrote:
    I hope you are fully tax compliant if your landlord lives abroad. You could be stung for a large tax bill if not. The landlord could also use this as a tactic against you.


    Can you explain this further please?


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    #213
    Ken79
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Ken79


    bren2002 wrote: »
    I hope you are fully tax compliant if your landlord lives abroad. You could be stung for a large tax bill if not. The landlord could also use this as a tactic against you.

    By the way, to answer your question - yes you are being unreasonable.

    Good question. We don't deduct tax but we pay into an irish bank account and her "agent" slash father in law who handles the day to day lives across the road.

    Could we be stung? If so, do I have to start witholding rent to cover the tax bill?


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    #214
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    If your landlord lives abroad you are required to withhold 20% of the rent and pay it directly to revenue. You then forward the receipt to the landlord.

    If you pay rent to an agent you don't need to do this. But if you pay directly to the landlords account, even an Irish one, you are liable for the tax bill.


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    #215
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    I'm using a phone so cant post a working link.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html

    Ahh the link does work!


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    #216
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    ice.cube wrote: »
    Can you explain this further please?

    For non resident landlords, it's the tenant's responsibility to withhold the portion of the tax due and pay it directly to the revenue.

    "Where rents are paid directly to a person whose usual place of abode is outside
    the State, the tenant is obliged to deduct income tax @ the standard rate from
    the payment (section 1041 TCA 1997). The tenant then gives the landlord a
    certificate of the tax deducted on form R 185. The landlord is entitled to claim
    relief for expenses which are usually allowed in arriving at the rental profit
    and may be entitled to a proportion of personal allowances. Note: Payment
    into a bank account in the name of the landlord is payment directly to the
    landlord."


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    #217
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Ken79 wrote: »
    Good question. We don't deduct tax but we pay into an irish bank account and her "agent" slash father in law who handles the day to day lives across the road.

    Could we be stung? If so, do I have to start witholding rent to cover the tax bill?

    If you are paying directly to a landlord who lives abroad you should be withholding a portion (20%) of the rent for revenue. You should contact them and ask, they are helpful about such things.


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    #218
    Ken79
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Ken79


    bren2002 wrote: »
    If your landlord lives abroad you are required to withhold 20% of the rent and pay it directly to revenue. You then forward the receipt to the landlord.

    If you pay rent to an agent you don't need to do this. But if you pay directly to the landlords account, even an Irish one, you are liable for the tax bill.

    Okay. Thats not something I was aware of so I'm going to have to look into it.
    Thanks for that. Better to know than to be ignorant.


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    #219
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,734 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    bren2002 wrote: »
    If your landlord lives abroad you are required to withhold 20% of the rent and pay it directly to revenue. You then forward the receipt to the landlord.

    If you pay rent to an agent you don't need to do this. But if you pay directly to the landlords account, even an Irish one, you are liable for the tax bill.

    Which just seems ridiculous to me - why should a tenant have any interest or responsibility for a LL's tax affairs on a property they're only renting. Their job is to pay rent as agreed, not act as a tax collector/auditor.

    It's kinda ironic considering the reaction the notion of LL's being responsible for tenant's IW compliance got... and rightly so. The utility bill is the responsibility of the person using the service.

    But that's me.. we all know Ireland has to be "different"


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    #220
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    So assuming your rent is €1,200 pm and you've been renting for 2 years. You owe revenue €5,760.

    Correct as appropriate.


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    #221
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    bren2002 wrote: »
    So assuming your rent is €1,200 pm and you've been renting for 2 years. You owe revenue €5,760.

    Correct as appropriate.

    Nonsense, revenue dont look for the money retrospectively. Ill bet the OP has a lease with an Irish address for the landlord too.


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    #222
    Stella11
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Stella11


    You are being unfair.. i cant believe you are asking that question.. its obvious..shes in a really difficult situation and you are trying to profit from it.. unbelievable.


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    #223
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Ken79 wrote: »
    You can't help gossip. You can make sure there's no truth in the gossip.

    Yes but gossip is not objective in it's nature - it's entirely subjective. Once people start bad mouthing you, it's very difficult to control the spread of it. Depends on your standing in the area - whether you are a native from a respected family or if you a 'blow in'.
    Ken79 wrote: »
    Okay. Thats not something I was aware of so I'm going to have to look into it. Thanks for that. Better to know than to be ignorant.

    You see, the LL in this case was clearly being a bit casual in not implementing this. It's impossible to tell whether this was deliberate or not. There are undoubtedly some people (many?) in situations like this who might like a nice handy source of tax free income.


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    #224
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    drumswan wrote: »
    Nonsense, revenue dont look for the money retrospectively. Ill bet the OP has a lease with an Irish address for the landlord too.

    Do you reckon they don't look for retrospective payment?


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    #225
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭ec18


    bren2002 wrote: »
    So assuming your rent is €1,200 pm and you've been renting for 2 years. You owe revenue €5,760.

    Correct as appropriate.

    so is this money he'll have to pay and try and work out some refund from the landlord? or is the onus purely on him?


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    #226
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,734 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    drumswan wrote: »
    Nonsense, revenue dont look for the money retrospectively. Ill bet the OP has a lease with an Irish address for the landlord too.

    To be fair it is an interesting point though..

    I don't know where my landlord lives although I know it's in Dublin. If they decide to move abroad in the morning and didn't tell me, how would I know?

    Does the tenant get a commission/tax credit for this collector role? (don't worry, I know the answer! :))

    Wonder what'd happen in such a scenario though.


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    #227
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    ec18 wrote: »
    so is this money he'll have to pay and try and work out some refund from the landlord? or is the onus purely on him?

    You'd have to ask revenue.


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    #228
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    bren2002 wrote: »
    Do you reckon they don't look for retrospective payment?

    I know it, Ive been through that situation where a landlord decided to emigrate without telling me.

    The act even makes provision for it:
    The obligation to deduct tax on payment of rents does not
    make the tenant a chargeable person (section 950 TCA
    1997).[45.1.4]
    2
    2. Payments of this nature are not charges on income. Taxed or
    other income cannot be regarded as covering these
    payments.
    2.2 Residential lettings
    In the case of residential lettings, tenants may not be aware of their
    obligation to deduct tax. This can occur either because the tenants are
    unaware that the landlord is resident abroad or because the tenants are
    unaware of the obligation to deduct tax when making payment to such
    a landlord.

    I had no problem going to revenue and saying 'Ive just become aware of this, how should I proceed?"


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    #229
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,734 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Stella11 wrote: »
    You are being unfair.. i cant believe you are asking that question.. its obvious..shes in a really difficult situation and you are trying to profit from it.. unbelievable.

    Flip it around...

    Look at the threads on this forum right now about tenants who have just been hit with significant and unexpected rent increases by their landlords and who may have to move out because of it.

    Is that not the LL profiting from the current market? Is it still unfair or just good business sense?


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    #230
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    drumswan wrote: »
    I know it, Ive been through that situation where a landlord decided to emigrate without telling me.

    The act even makes provision for it:

    Interested to get first hand experience. But in this case the tenant does know the landlord lives abroad.


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    #231
    Ken79
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Ken79


    bren2002 wrote: »
    So assuming your rent is €1,200 pm and you've been renting for 2 years. You owe revenue €5,760.

    Correct as appropriate.
    No, my rent is only €750 and we have been renting for 13 months so it's be about €1800. So there'll be no rent for her for the next few months by the looks of it.


    Would we have been liable for that or would she? It's her tax after all, not mine.


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    #232
    REXER
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭REXER


    cursai wrote: »
    Annnnnnnd I'm done with this thread!

    Bye, see ya.


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    #233
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,734 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Ken79 wrote: »
    Would we have been liable for that or would she? It's her tax after all, not mine.

    Based on the above it seems it's your problem - as mad as that seems to me!


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    #234
    Ken79
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Ken79


    drumswan wrote: »
    I know it, Ive been through that situation where a landlord decided to emigrate without telling me.

    The act even makes provision for it:


    I had no problem going to revenue and saying 'Ive just become aware of this, how should I proceed?"

    Thank you for that. Was worried for a minute.


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    #235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bren2002 wrote: »
    Interested to get first hand experience. But in this case the tenant does know the landlord lives abroad.

    "or because the tenants are
    unaware of the obligation to deduct tax when making payment to such
    a landlord"


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    #236
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    Ken79 wrote: »
    No, my rent is only €750 and we have been renting for 13 months so it's be about €1800. So there'll be no rent for her for the next few months by the looks of it.


    Would we have been liable for that or would she? It's her tax after all, not mine.

    You're liable.


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    #237
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    bren2002 wrote: »
    Interested to get first hand experience. But in this case the tenant does know the landlord lives abroad.

    True, but he wasnt aware of his obligation to hold back rent which is accounted for in the act, where it is also explicitly stated that the tenant is not a chargeable person. If he has a lease with the landlords Irish address this further confuses things.

    He should contact revenue for assistance, they are not out to screw people on this one.


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    #238
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bren2002 wrote: »
    You're liable.

    You can't read


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    #239
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭bren2002


    Oh, play the ball not the man. Posting on a phone so its slower.


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    #240
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can't read

    Its not that clear to be fair, the tenant has an 'obligation to collect' but is 'not a chargeable person'. Hardly clear, it suggests that the tenant has an obligation to withhold the rent but no action can be taken against them if they dont.


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    #241
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Ken79 wrote: »
    Thank you for that. Was worried for a minute.

    But you do know the landlord is abroad - going by your own moral compass and desire to keep things right & proper, then surely you are obliged to see if this tax has been paid and pay it if necessary.

    It reads a bit like the 'Withholding tax for professional fees' etc which you'll possibly be familiar with depending on the nature of your business.


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