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Time off for funeral

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2

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    #32
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    davo10 wrote: »
    Sounds like the HSE.

    At least in the HSE there. is a written policy re time off for a funeral.

    OP, how come ye work on Christmas day?


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    #33
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    At least in the HSE there. is a written policy re time off for a funeral.

    OP, how come ye work on Christmas day?

    I really can't answer that without giving away who I work for! There's not too many organisations working Christmas Day!


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    #34
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    I really can't answer that without giving away who I work for! There's not too many organisations working Christmas Day!

    Well is it a public or private organisation?


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    #35
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    Well is it a public or private organisation?

    It's a private organisation. We benefit on sick leave, but as pointed out earlier, even the incompetent HSE have a policy in place for compassionate leave!


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    #36
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    It's a private organisation. We benefit on sick leave, but as pointed out earlier, even the incompetent HSE have a policy in place for compassionate leave!

    Ah, now:(. No need to cast aspersions. I'm only trying to determine if there was any hope of finding a loophole to free you for the day. Hope Granny holds out till Feb at least.


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    #37
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    Ah, now:(. No need to cast aspersions. I'm only trying to determine if there was any hope of finding a loophole to free you for the day. Hope Granny holds out till Feb at least.

    Does my critisim of the HSE cause offence? Sorry! From a selfish point of view I'm really hoping she'll hang on a bit longer, but I know she's ready, which is why I'm expecting it to be very soon. People don't tend to last too long once they've given up the fight.


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    #38
    Galadriel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    At least in the HSE there. is a written policy re time off for a funeral.

    OP, how come ye work on Christmas day?

    I work for the HSE and was not entitled to a day off for my Grandmothers funeral, I took a day's annual leave.


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    #39
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Galadriel wrote: »
    I work for the HSE and was not entitled to a day off for my Grandmothers funeral, I took a day's annual leave.

    You must have joined in recent years after [they] <<abuse mod-snipped>> changed the rules.





    MOD-NOTE: People who work in HR are employees like the rest of us, doing their job. You may not like what they do, but there's no call for abusing them.


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    #40
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,753 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    davo10 wrote: »
    I really can't imagine any business not allowing someone time off to attend a grantparent's funeral.

    I certainly can.

    An Irish owned and operated business, no.

    But a multi-national, absolutely. Many cultures aren't nearly so emotional about deaths as the Irish are, and take firmer points of view about what is and isn't reasonable. And the fact that here funerals happen as soon as possible means that employers get less notice and thus time to arrange cover.

    OP, it's a very hard one to call. Only you can really judge whether to tell them or not. As others have said, you have no entitlement. But don't be too hung up by the "no unpaid leave" rule: if you manager wants, they can either bend the rule, or allow you to anticipate a day from next year, or they can possibly choose to grant you a day's paid extra leave even though it's not an entitlement.

    I feel for you: many years ago, I was in a new job for less than two weeks when I got the phone call to say my mother was dying, and it could be anything between a couple of hours and a couple of weeks. Wasn't easy saying to a new manager "I have to go, no idea how long for".

    Hope the next few days / weeks go as well as they can for you and your family.


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    #41
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I certainly can.

    An Irish owned and operated business, no.

    But a multi-national, absolutely. Many cultures aren't nearly so emotional about deaths as the Irish are, and take firmer points of view about what is and isn't reasonable. And the fact that here funerals happen as soon as possible means that employers get less notice and thus time to arrange cover.

    OP, it's a very hard one to call. Only you can really judge whether to tell them or not. As others have said, you have no entitlement. But don't be too hung up by the "no unpaid leave" rule: if you manager wants, they can either bend the rule, or allow you to anticipate a day from next year, or they can possibly choose to grant you a day's paid extra leave even though it's not an entitlement.

    I feel for you: many years ago, I was in a new job for less than two weeks when I got the phone call to say my mother was dying, and it could be anything between a couple of hours and a couple of weeks. Wasn't easy saying to a new manager "I have to go, no idea how long for".

    Hope the next few days / weeks go as well as they can for you and your family.

    Thanks :)

    Most people don't get how different it is to work for a multi-national. It's the first time I've worked for one, and even though I've come to expect their attitude to be a whole lot different, they still manage to surprise me. They can be very generous but at the same time they tend to have absolutely no consideration for personal situations. We're not robots!


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    #42
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    You must have joined in recent years after [they] <<abuse mod-snipped>> changed the rules.





    MOD-NOTE: People who work in HR are employees like the rest of us, doing their job. You may not like what they do, but there's no call for abusing them.

    Point taken, but when the minions in National HR changed the rules without any consultation and omitted grandparents and in-laws that were included in the earlier policy, then you could'nt call them nice boys & girls ;).


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    #43
    Aber2012
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Aber2012


    I think your best of option here is as stated previously pop out for the funeral/burial for two hours max. If there is going to be a removal/wake you'll be there the night before and the night of the funeral. I know it's your grandmother... But would your family rather see you unemployed and attend a funeral? If they still say no to the popping out for the funeral situation.... Bite your tongue, go with it or else if they are that strict they could turf you out, it's awful situation to be in. What kind of lunch break do you get? Most funerals start at 11 am you could get there in time for the burial?
    I've never been in this situation myself but I do find it heartless that your boss wouldn't have some sort of compassion for you. Bring the situation up straight away, and be honest and discuss your options in a logical manner


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    #44
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Aber2012 wrote: »
    I think your best of option here is as stated previously pop out for the funeral/burial for two hours max. If there is going to be a removal/wake you'll be there the night before and the night of the funeral. I know it's your grandmother... But would your family rather see you unemployed and attend a funeral? If they still say no to the popping out for the funeral situation.... Bite your tongue, go with it or else if they are that strict they could turf you out, it's awful situation to be in. What kind of lunch break do you get? Most funerals start at 11 am you could get there in time for the burial?
    I've never been in this situation myself but I do find it heartless that your boss wouldn't have some sort of compassion for you. Bring the situation up straight away, and be honest and discuss your options in a logical manner

    Officially we get 30 mins for lunch. Unofficially it's frowned upon not to be working while you eat!


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    #45
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    My uncle died a couple of months ago and my manager said I had to use annual leave to attend the funeral. My grandmother is very sick at the moment and we're not expecting her to last much longer. I have no annual leave left for this year. If she were to pass before the end of the year, and the funeral was a work day, where would I stand? I know it's a bit morbid, but I'd just like to know where I stand. I'd have no problem taking the day unpaid but my company doesn't usually allow this. Could they legally refuse me the day off?

    Could they legally refuse me the day off? Short answer>> 'Yes!' However, they would have to be hard-hearted to refuse.


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    #46
    Aber2012
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Aber2012


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    Officially we get 30 mins for lunch. Unofficially it's frowned upon not to be working while you eat!

    Ok, I hear ya, I work in a place with a similar culture - lunch time wise, and it is easy for others to say oh you're entitled to this, that and the other, it's not going to go down well where you are. Are you rostered for working weekends?if not then y If the unmentionable happens... For instance if your grandparent was to pass away say on a Wednesday, would they consider postponing the funeral for a day so that you could attend on a weeknd, Equally funerals don't generally follow the usual sequence like they used to years ago- person passes away say Monday, wake Tuesday, burial Wednesday, these days people have to travel to get home etc... I'm really clutching at straws here but ya never know


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    #47
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Aber2012 wrote: »
    Ok, I hear ya, I work in a place with a similar culture - lunch time wise, and it is easy for others to say oh you're entitled to this, that and the other, it's not going to go down well where you are. Are you rostered for working weekends?if not then y If the unmentionable happens... For instance if your grandparent was to pass away say on a Wednesday, would they consider postponing the funeral for a day so that you could attend on a weeknd, Equally funerals don't generally follow the usual sequence like they used to years ago- person passes away say Monday, wake Tuesday, burial Wednesday, these days people have to travel to get home etc... I'm really clutching at straws here but ya never know

    I don't want to be overly pushy about the funeral as in fairness it's down to her children to make the final decision. If however they were to say it was going to be on a day where I'm due to work, but I'd be off the following day, I will definitely be asking if we could delay it 1 day. All my aunts and uncles are very much aware that I'll struggle to get the day off so I'm sure they wouldn't have any problem with it. (I really struggled to get time off for my uncles funeral, even though I was using annual leave, because it was a weekend and no one wanted to cover for me.)


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    #48
    Aber2012
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Aber2012


    It sounds like a hostile place to work.... And this is the last thing you should have to worry about at a time like this. Have to say your colleagues are just as heartless, I'm sure you would do anything in a time of crisis to make sure things were easier for them. A lot of people don't function that way unfortunately. Are you looking for a job else where?!


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    #49
    Paco Rodriguez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Paco Rodriguez


    If your uncle is on your father's side you are entitled to time off. If it is your mother's side your employer are under no obligation to give you time.


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    #50
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Paco Rodriguez wrote: »
    If your uncle is on your father's side you are entitled to time off. If it is your mother's side your employer are under no obligation to give you time.

    What?, completely misinformed.

    From Citizens Advice.

    Compassionate leave

    If a member of your close family dies you have no entitlement to force majeure leave. Other compassionate leave not covered by force majeure leave will depend on your employment contract, custom and practice within your workplace or the employer's discretion.


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    #51
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    davo10 wrote: »
    What?, completely misinformed.

    From Citizens Advice.

    Compassionate leave

    If a member of your close family dies you have no entitlement to force majeure leave. Other compassionate leave not covered by force majeure leave will depend on your employment contract, custom and practice within your workplace or the employer's discretion.

    Force majeure is there to cover unforeseen occurences. That would cover sudden illnesses, accidents etc, but not foreseeable compassionate leave.


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    #52
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Aber2012 wrote: »
    It sounds like a hostile place to work.... And this is the last thing you should have to worry about at a time like this. Have to say your colleagues are just as heartless, I'm sure you would do anything in a time of crisis to make sure things were easier for them. A lot of people don't function that way unfortunately. Are you looking for a job else where?!

    In fairness to my colleagues I think it's very difficult to work in that kind of an environment for an extended period of time and not become heartless! I'm sure they were lovely people once. I am very actively seeking alternative employment. After my Uncles funeral, and the moaning I had to listen to for inconveniencing my colleague with the impromptu day off, I promised myself I wouldn't stay long enough to end up like that!


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    #53
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    Paco Rodriguez wrote: »
    If your uncle is on your father's side you are entitled to time off. If it is your mother's side your employer are under no obligation to give you time.

    As others have pointed out, that's not correct, but I'd love to know where you got it from?


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    #54
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    Force majeure is there to cover unforeseen occurences. That would cover sudden illnesses, accidents etc, but not foreseeable compassionate leave.

    Force Majeure is the only possible leave Paco Rodrigues could be referring to.

    There is no obligation to provide compassionate leave, it is at the discretion if the employer. There are only two leaves the employer must accept, maternity leave and certified sick leave, nothing more, nothing less. Force Majeure applies as you said, in exceptional circumstances, it must be sudden, the employee's attendance must be essential and it must be an immediate family member. None of these apply to the OP so the employer is legally not obliged to grant leave, though morally I think it would be wrong to refuse


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    #55
    InReality
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    Does your co-worker know the situation ?

    I'd
    1) ask co-worker
    2) ask co-worker and say will pay them
    3) explain to manager

    In any semi-normal workplace 1 or 3 should work.


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    #56
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    Now we're down to 2 due to maternity leave. At the moment there is only ever 1 in the office at a time so that we can cover the maternity leave without getting someone else in. So for the time being, every instance of 1 of us being off leads to overtime.
    Would the lady who is off on maternity leave be interested in coming back for a day? She might actually be happy to get back in touch with people for a day. Maybe she has family who could step in with childcare for a day.


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    #57
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    What is the employer coming to when you cant even take a day off to attend a grand parents funeral. A disgraceful way to be treated OP.


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    #58
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    Tell your boss you WILL be taking the day off for the funeral when it happens. I cant see them sacking you for it, would that be a case for unfair dismissal?


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    #59
    Whiplashy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Whiplashy


    I rang my manager today and told her that I wanted to give her prior notice that my grandmother is very unwell and I could be looking for time off for the funeral before the end of the year. Her answer? "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Don't forget I'm finishing up for Christmas on Wednesday but if you need to contact me urgently you can of course email me. I'll probably be checking it most days."

    I definitely should have went with the sickie! Now I've basically been told, in a roundabout way, no phone calls over Christmas even if it's urgent!


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    #60
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Polo_Mint wrote: »
    Tell your boss you WILL be taking the day off for the funeral when it happens. I cant see them sacking you for it, would that be a case for unfair dismissal?

    Of course not, if OPs request is declined and she still takes the day off, she will be absent without authorisation and she has already posted that a colleague was dismissed for the same issue.


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    #61
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Whiplashy wrote: »
    I rang my manager today and told her that I wanted to give her prior notice that my grandmother is very unwell and I could be looking for time off for the funeral before the end of the year. Her answer? "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Don't forget I'm finishing up for Christmas on Wednesday but if you need to contact me urgently you can of course email me. I'll probably be checking it most days."

    I definitely should have went with the sickie! Now I've basically been told, in a roundabout way, no phone calls over Christmas even if it's urgent!

    No, you've done the right thing. Now she knows in advance that you may need a day off, your manager will cross that bridge when you come to it which is a reasonable reply, she did not say "no you can't have a day off even if your granny dies". She now has 2 days to talk to your colleague.


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