Lad Culture

Turtyturd · 01-12-2014 12:24AM

efb wrote: »

Saying I find Olivier Giroud attractive? I would not consider guys expressing an interest in ladies to be laddish, unless there is a use of derogatory words and references to forcing themselves on them.

Fairly sure it's stronger than expressing an interest...I can think of posters who have blocked you due to pictures you have posted.

Even your sig would be fairly indicative of lad culture.

Cantremember · 01-12-2014 12:26AM

CHRIST it's a culture now is it? Soon be looking for race status, maybe entitlements, a technical group.

efb · 01-12-2014 12:27AM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Fairly sure it's stronger than expressing an interest...I can think of posters who have blocked you due to pictures you have posted.

Even your sig would be fairly indicative of lad culture.

How are you aware of this? Do you meet and discuss who you have blocked and why?

What part of sig, being the patron saint of oral?

tritium · 01-12-2014 12:29AM

efb wrote: »

No its describing a behaviour trait, where is a wide enough correlation to justify it.

Eh, No! Lad culture has basically been taken as a hugely broad hodge-podge of behaviours. Some not very nice or good, others just annoying which casts as wide a net as possible across young men. Essentially its a one size fits all tag for young men that then justifies the sort of 'consent classes' stuff that some UK colleges are now rolling out. And if you cast a wide enough net then you can attach the label 'culture' to it as opposed to various non-homogeneous examples of behaviour of wide degrees of obnoxiousness (from 0 (none) to 10(lots) on a scale)

Lets take some examples of what I mean from the links helpfully provided in the report you linked to. From a linked Guardian report by Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett:

The NUS defines lad culture as a group or “pack” mentality expressed in activities such as sport and heavy alcohol consumption, and in “banter” which is “often sexist, misogynist, and homophobic”.

given the author you quoted choose to link to this piece I think we can infer she at least doesn't violently disagree with the definition

so: Heavy alcohol consumption - yeah I think we can safely say that brush captures a fairly large block of young males. Problematically it actually captures a large block of young people. You know, both X and Y chromosome types. What to so about that, I guess they just ignored it.....

sport: Well yes again many young men play spoprt, Some may even play competitively. Oddly enough I haven't in the past seen too much criticism for the idea of people taking up sporting activities - heck, I've even seen it encouraged. Guess what? They even encourage women to do so! I know! mad Ted!

Pack mentality: Yep, most young people (both sexes) hang out with groups of friends and peers. Sometimes it can I'll admit be intimidating (regardless of gender on occasion believe it or not). However I'm pretty sure this isn't a new thing.....

“banter” which is “often sexist, misogynist, and homophobic”.: Well banter is basically talking. I think we have to let them do that to be fair. The three 'ists' are certainly unwelcome though. They concede they are 'often' rather than always, so I'll assume the culprits do have other things to discuss that are more palitable. Having lived long enough to have sat in the company of groups of men and women I'd be pretty slow to say that 2 of those 3 are the preserve of young men though (misogyny sure, but I can swap plenty of misandry stories). TLDR: Young people usually have some growing up to do. Pretending that young boys are some special case of this is nonsense.

Now that's not to say if there are issues with sexual crime on campuses for example that something shouldn't be done. Demonising 50% of the population however seems like a pretty poor solution. Unless of course your departments continued existence might depend on finding a few reds men under the bed. And this part of the reason is why so many men are starting to get defensive, Because when you start looking critically at this sweeping brush being applied its actually being applied dishonestly, And the groups applying it know its dishonest - they have since the days of Mary Kroos. The sad thing is that dishonesty creates a negativity and hostility that makes it harder to address any real issue.

Tail Docker · 01-12-2014 12:30AM

Was hoping for a discussion of modded cars, football and how many pints ye can take before falling over. Thread has the serious.

efb · 01-12-2014 12:31AM

tritium wrote: »

Eh, No! Lad culture has basically been taken as a hugely broad hodge-podge of behaviours. Some not very nice or good, others just annoying which casts as wide a net as possible across young men. Essentially its a one size fits all tag for young men that then justifies the sort of 'consent classes' stuff that some UK colleges are now rolling out.

Lets take some examples of what I mean from the links helpfully provided in the report you linked to. From a linked Guardian report by Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett:

given the author you quoted choose to link to this piece I think we can infer she at least doesn't violently disagree with the definition

so: Heavy alcohol consumption - yeah I think we can safely say that brush captures a fairly large block of young males. Problematically it actually captures a large block of young people. You know, both X and Y chromosome types. What to so about that, I guess they just ignored it.....

sport: Well yes again many young men play spoprt, Some may even play competitively. Oddly enough I haven't in the past seen too much criticism for the idea of people taking up sporting activities - heck, I've even seen it encouraged. Guess what? They even encourage women to do so! I know! mad Ted!

Pack mentality: Yep, most young people (both sexes) hang out with groups of friends and peers. Sometimes it can I'll admit be intimidating (regardless of gender on occasion believe it or not). However I'm pretty sure this isn't a new thing.....

“banter” which is “often sexist, misogynist, and homophobic”.: Well banter is basically talking. I think we have to let them do that to be fair. The three 'ists' are certainly unwelcome though. Having lived long enough to have sat in the company of groups of men and women I'd be pretty slow to say that 2 of those 3 are the preserve of young men though (misogyny sure, but I can swap plenty of misandry stories). TLDR: Young people usually have some growing up to do. Pretending that young boys are some special case of this is nonsense.

Now that's not to say if there are issues with sexual crime on campuses for example that something shouldn't be done. Demonising 50% of the population however seems like a pretty poor solution. Unless of course your departments continued existence might depend on finding a few reds men under the bed. And this part of the reason is why so many men are starting to get defensive, Because when you start looking critically at this sweeping brush being applied its actually being applied dishonestly, And the groups applying it know its dishonest - they have since the days of Mary Kroos. The sad thing is that dishonesty creates a negativity and hostility that makes it harder to address any real issue.

Do you think what the rugby club posted was lad behaviour? Was it acceptable?

Sound of Silence · 01-12-2014 12:37AM

Welcome to 2014, where being perpetually offended is the new cultural capital!

Have you checked your privilege?

Turtyturd · 01-12-2014 12:39AM

efb wrote: »

How are you aware of this? Do you meet and discuss who you have blocked and why?

What part of sig, being the patron saint of oral?

And the going deep double entendre.

efb · 01-12-2014 12:40AM

Turtyturd wrote: »

And the going deep double entendre.

That was a reference to the Bank Bailout???

KERSPLAT! · 01-12-2014 12:52AM

MOD

TheZohan wrote: »

Might I suggest a glass of water. See you in your next reincarnation.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Because I don't like you.

Jaysus, give it a rest the pair of ye.

Everyone else, please keep it civil

braddun · 01-12-2014 12:53AM

going down to the pub with the lads

tritium · 01-12-2014 12:54AM

efb wrote: »

Do you think what the rugby club posted was lad behaviour? Was it acceptable?

acceptable -no

An example of the desperate misogyny inherent in a flawed lad culture -no!

An example of the elitist snobbery of a small group of asshats who look down their noses at anyone who isn't one of them -Bingo!!

Its kind of tragic how in the rush to focus on how sexist and misogynistic this group are everyone ignored the snobbery ("scum-they'll work for us"), misandry ("pose in a neon wife beater") and xenophobia (pissing on a croatian national monument) . An that's only in the bit that was released - I'll assume that the rest may have insulted many other groups but it didn't suit the tight focus of the message to highlight it.

In summary, given the number of groups they've specialised in insulting, I doubt you could pull anything but a fairly narrow demographic into their world. Certainly not the broad brush that NUS applied to describe lad culture in their definition. If I can dig up a suitably similar document written by a small group of women should I take that as an example of the inherent moral destitution of all or most women who share any remotely similar characteristic, for example age bracket?

efb · 01-12-2014 12:56AM

tritium wrote: »

acceptable -no

An example of the desperate misogyny inherent in a flawed lad culture -no!

An example of the elitist snobbery of a small group of asshats who look down their noses at anyone who isn't one of them -Bingo!!

Its kind of tragic how in the rush to focus on how sexist and misogynistic this group are everyone ignored the snobbery ("scum-they'll work for us"), misandry ("pose in a neon wife beater") and xenophobia (pissing on a croatian national monument) . An that's only in the bit that was released - I'll assume that the rest may have insulted many other groups but it didn't suit the tight focus of the message to highlight it.

In summary, given the number of groups they've specialised in insulting, I doubt you could pull anything but a fairly narrow demographic into their world. Certainly not the broad brush that NUS applied to describe lad culture in their definition. If I can dig up a suitably similar document written by a small group of women should I take that as an example of the inherent moral destitution of all or most women who share any remotely similar characteristic, for example age bracket?

I don't believe the majority of men are part of this "lad culture"- but I don't like how its being championed atm

tritium · 01-12-2014 01:06AM

efb wrote: »

I don't believe the majority of men are part of this "lad culture"- but I don't like how its being championed atm

There's a difference between championing unacceptable behaviour and defending a large swathe of innocent people from what's basically gross bullying - an attempt to corral them into one homogenous pot so that they can be lectured on how they 'should be' and everything that 'wrong' with them.

Yet you still haven't addressed the other elephant in the room. The definition of what the NUS finds as unacceptable Laddish behaviour applies equally broadly to young women - good luck with telling that demographic in the mainstream media about not getting obnoxiously drunk. I rather suspect that the author of the piece you linked might have a very different view on that

Wibbs · 01-12-2014 01:07AM

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Welcome to 2014, where being perpetually offended is the new cultural capital!

Have you checked your privilege?

Yea and would this imported gender war ballsology please fúck the hell out of it and leave the rest of us alone to be people. So take your adolescent student staring into the bottom of a pint spent alone "feminist" and "manist" bullshíte with you thanks all very much. Or just fcuk off and irritate someone else.

RDM_83 again · 01-12-2014 01:13AM

efb wrote: »

I don't believe the majority of men are part of this "lad culture"- but I don't like how its being championed atm

Is it actually being championed though? any more than the early 2000's shows like Jackass "championed" getting kicked in the nuts? I see a that there is a lot of car crash TV in terms of the Shores etc but on the flip side I've had to sit through a couple of episodes of Made in Chelsea and all the guys in that seem to do is talk about their emotions.
I'd wonder if this has a negative effect in terms of normalising this behaviour but then again I am a horrible authoritarian ( not the good sort of authoritarian that only wants to ban people from having views that offend me :pac: )

Carlos Orange · 01-12-2014 01:16AM

tritium wrote: »

The definition of what the NUS finds as unacceptable Laddish behaviour applies equally broadly to young women

The NUS survey is obviously terribly slanted but at least they find time to mention
12% of male students have experienced unwanted sexual comments about their body. Strangely the director of gender studies forgets to.

efb · 01-12-2014 01:17AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Is it actually being championed though? any more than the early 2000's shows like Jackass "championed" getting kicked in the nuts? I see a that there is a lot of car crash TV in terms of the Shores etc but on the flip side I've had to sit through a couple of episodes of Made in Chelsea and all the guys in that seem to do is talk about their emotions.
I'd wonder if this has a negative effect in terms of normalising this behaviour but then again I am a horrible authoritarian ( not the good sort of authoritarian that only wants to ban people from having views that offend me :pac: )

A lot of ads seem to champion it Ladbrokes etc

RDM_83 again · 01-12-2014 01:25AM

efb wrote: »

A lot of ads seem to champion it Ladbrokes etc

I actually don't know which ad your talking about? A lot of ads aimed at men seem to be about getting drunk with your mates and having the craic along with a bit of mild slagging, if thats what you mean by lad culture is it that bad?I'd guess its what most men between 18-35 do most weekends anyway.

On that note I'l add this video to point out the gender differences in advertising :P

osarusan · 01-12-2014 01:29AM

I can honestly say I've never heard of this before opening this thread, never mind hearing it being blamed for all the ills of the western world.

What is it, exactly?

hatrickpatrick · 01-12-2014 02:03AM

anncoates wrote: »

That's strange because the entire culture was essentially constructed and lionized by magazines like Loaded that were largely aimed at - and largely staffed by - men.

I'm not objecting to the culture itself, but to the derogatory use of the term. When women get together in groups, they also sometimes get drunk, objectify men, act the eejit. Yet there isn't an endless media onslaught telling them they're the source of all of society's ills.

efb · 01-12-2014 02:06AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not objecting to the culture itself, but to the derogatory use of the term. When women get together in groups, they also sometimes get drunk, objectify men, act the eejit. Yet there isn't an endless media onslaught telling them they're the source of all of society's ills.

How much criminal behaviour is caused by drinking women?

Tombi! · 01-12-2014 02:50AM

It's down to opinion on what it is.
It can be anything from having a few pints in a pub watching a match to going out, getting hammered and starting fights by beating up people at 4am with a gang of mates.

If you want to get get offended then you've already made your mind up and no amount of reasoning will help change it. There's no doubt the phrase "boys will be boys" can be used to play down whatever happened but at the end of the day that's on the person using it. Lad culture doesn't have a strict definition and probably won't for a long time.

Jester252 · 01-12-2014 03:56AM

I'm sorry for being a white straight male in his early twenties.

Jester252 · 01-12-2014 03:58AM

efb wrote: »

How much criminal behaviour is caused by drinking women?

I guess you never been on a night out.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 01-12-2014 06:48AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ok then, notice how men in popular almost always seem to me sleazy, stupid or both? Any modern US sitcom evinces this and I'll cite the entire male cast of characters of Big Bang Theory as an example. The likes of Jessica Valenti and Una Mullally regularly spout the kind of bile that sends men off to the likes of Paul Elam.

:rolleyes:The men in the Big Bang Theory are all genuises or close to being geniuses in the show

tritium · 01-12-2014 08:06AM

efb wrote: »

How much criminal behaviour is caused by drinking women?

What percentage of young males captured in the NUS definition are engaging in criminal behaviour?

DoYouEvenLift · 01-12-2014 08:24AM

Ban lads!

01-12-2014 09:42AM

efb wrote: »

It's not always harmless

Neither are bunnies. They can be vicious little things you know.

efb wrote: »

How much criminal behaviour is caused by drinking women?

I do not think I have ever met someone who has drunk a woman. How do you even get one in a glass?

shruikan2553 wrote: »

So what exactly is lad culture and what is the problem with it?

So far it appears to be a catch all term - so it can mean anything you want it to mean - and whatever you ALREADY have a problem with - you just lump it in under the term - and then attack the term. Simples

ancapailldorcha · 01-12-2014 11:06AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

:rolleyes:The men in the Big Bang Theory are all genuises or close to being geniuses in the show

You're missing the point.

Lad Culture

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