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Reasons feminism is still relevant *READ OP BEFORE POSTING*

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Comments

  • #122
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Sorry but there are too many generalizations there that I would drag this way off topic discussing it. Neither do I feel the need to defend men because they can do it themselves.

    Obviously I'm talking about men that don't partake in defending rapists, make rape jokes etc. It's those men that need to be more vocal, we need to stamp out the thoughts that I've outlined. I can't see what any right thinking man would have against this view?


  • #123
    Lemming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,170 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    Well rape is something that men do but I'm not saying criticise the gender. I'm saying instead of trying to spread the blame and trying to depict men as victims in society, more effort should be put into tackling the thought that's out there that some rape is not really rape and the thought that some men have of rape being not that serious of a crime.
    This can only be changed by men being vocal against those who defend rapists with various excuses of drink involved, she was leading him on etc etc. Men making jokes about rape is far too common, it's only done when they're amongst other men. We need to be strong enough to stand up and say it's not ok to make jokes about rape.
    This is not saying that all men are rapists, I'm just showing some of the things that men can do to make even thinking about rape taboo. It's not about an attack on men, it's about arming men to attack rape culture.

    Emphasis mine. You cannot say it's not an attack on men and then launch an attack on men. Double plus good and all that down at the Ministry of Truth by the looks of it these days.


  • #124
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    Lemming wrote: »
    Emphasis mine. You cannot say it's not an attack on men and then launch an attack on men. Double plus good and all that down at the Ministry of Truth by the looks of it these days.

    Rape isn't something ALL men do. It's not an attack on men, it's an attack on men who rape. The only people that should take any offence to my post are rapists and those who support or defend rape.


  • #125
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,964 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    Rape is something men do, 99% of rape crimes are committed by men. Rape isn't something ALL men do. It's not an attack on men, it's an attack on men who rape. The only people that should take any offence to my post are rapists and those who support or defend rape.

    'Rape" is something 'rapists' do.

    The moment you substitute the word 'rapist' with the plural 'men' you implicate the whole gender.

    I would never say 'X is something women do' as it would be seen as a gross generalization. And I would completely agree.

    Rape is a horrible thing and yes, people need to be made aware that it comes in many guises. I'm male and I'm all for helping spread that message - I just find it extremely disheartening when I read comments like the one you posted above.


  • #126
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    o1s1n wrote: »
    'Rape" is something 'rapists' do.

    The moment you substitute the word 'rapist' with the plural 'men' you implicate the whole gender.

    I would never say 'X is something women do' as it would be seen as a gross generalization. And I would completely agree.

    Rape is a horrible thing and yes, people need to be made aware that it comes in many guises. I'm male and I'm all for helping spread that message - I just find it extremely disheartening when I read comments like the one you posted above.

    It's clear what I'm saying but it's typical that the point is being ignored over semantics or trying to distract from the issue.


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  • #127
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,964 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    99% of rapists are men. Not 99% of men are rapists. It's clear what I'm saying but it's typical that the point is being ignored over semantics or trying to distract from the issue.

    I"m really very conscious of the directions in the OP so don't want to debate your points here, so I'm just going to leave you with a similar point to the one I made before - saying 'rape is something men do' alienates men who would otherwise agree and support your points.

    It might be semantics to you but trust me, as someone who slots into that specific gender that comment is aimed at, its far from it.


  • #128
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,457 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    The whole mens rights thing has taken over. There are some things that are slightly balanced against men but in the overall scheme of things men don't have it bad. Not only are men far more likely to commit rape as the stats show above, men are also far more likely to commit acts of violence, to murder people, actually most crimes be they big or small are committed by men.
    The whole mens rights thing scares me a little, it seems to be more about trying to downplay any injustices suffered by women. They attack any woman who even makes a simple claim of sexist behaviour against her. They call her feminazi or whatever. They use the word feminist as a cover word for an attack on all women.
    The mens rights movement has gone too far in it's plight to paint men as victims. I've seen some defend rapists as part of it! It's really frightening if you think about it. So instead of showing how far men are against things we've seen posted above and against what way men are depicted, trying to play the victim has become priority. It's sad really.

    Why don't you come over to the mens rights thread and post this instead of playing it safe here where nobody is allowed to take you to task on what you say?


  • #129
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    o1s1n wrote: »
    I"m really very conscious of the directions in the OP so don't want to debate your points here, so I'm just going to leave you with a similar point to the one I made before - saying 'rape is something men do' alienates men who would otherwise agree and support your points.

    It might be semantics to you but trust me, as someone who slots into that specific gender that comment is aimed at, its far from it.

    Yeah, I don't want to drag this off either.


  • #130
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Why don't you come over to the mens rights thread and post this instead of playing it safe here where nobody is allowed to take you to task on what you say?

    What is this all about? :confused:


  • #131
    Makayla Echoing Boy
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Makayla Echoing Boy


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't want to drag this off either.

    Rape is something men do is a statment of fact, it's not having a go at all men. And I am a man, I'm hardly calling myself a rapist am I?

    It's also something women do. I'm not really sure where you're going with this.


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  • #132
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    bluewolf wrote: »
    It's also something women do. I'm not really sure where you're going with this.


    See we're getting dragged completely off topic now, I think that was the aim. Forget the statistics and all that then, it has nothing to do with the main point I was making.


  • #133
    Liam McPoyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,846 ✭✭✭✭Liam McPoyle


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    See we're getting dragged completely off topic now, I think that was the aim. Forget the statistics and all that then, it has nothing to do with the main point I was making.

    Your user name is donkey dick and you really expect people to not see you as the simple, low level wind up merchant that you are, and a re-reg to boot no doubt!

    I'm no mystic meg but I predict a short shelf life on this site for you.

    Good day sir!

    :)


  • #134
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    Business Cat wrote: »
    Your user name is donkey dick and you really expect people to not see you as the simple, low level wind up merchant that you are, and a re-reg to boot no doubt!

    I'm no mystic meg but I predict a short shelf life on this site for you.

    Good day sir!

    :)

    What the hell??????


  • #135
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    Ok so I've edited my posts. Now can you deal with the actual points I've raised and stop dragging this thread off topic? If not or you have nothing to add to this thread then will you leave it alone please?


  • #136
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Don Kedick wrote: »
    Ok so I've edited my posts. Now can you deal with the actual points I've raised and stop dragging this thread off topic? If not or you have nothing to add to this thread then will you leave it alone please?

    You mean the misandrist generalisations? If I recall correctly, you dragged it off topic so it's a tad rich to be seeing you backseat modding.

    Anyhow, that's my contribution and as much as I hate to agree with the likes of you, this is getting off topic.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #137
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    I'm not even a woman, but it's feckin tiresome the way a thread about needing feminism will almost invariably end up being about men.


  • #138
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Business Cat wrote: »
    Your user name is donkey dick and you...[]

    Good day sir!

    :)

    Completely OT, but I remember there used to be a racehorse in England that was called "Dixie Normas" :)

    Good day sir! :D


  • #139
    sunshine and showers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭sunshine and showers


    Feminism is still relevant because it's not all about the menz.


  • #140
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I hate to break it to you but considering the rapist was invite to wedding I think at least bride and possibly more female friends didn't believe the poster above it happened or didn't take it seriously. I certainly hope my partner would refuse attend the wedding where my rapist would be present and I really wouldn't want to be friendly with people who were still his friends.

    I also know a woman who was willing to lie on the stand to protect her husband who was accused of the sexual assault and rape of the minor. Her opinion was that the victim was money grabbing bitch. Rape might be predominantly male crime but it is often supported or even facilitated by women, especially in case of minors. So making this "only" male issue is idiotic.

    The situation in question is complicated. I don't have the energy to post the full story. But I do agree that in the omnishambles that followed was contributed to by both male and female inegalitarian attitudes. Part of the reason that I didn't come out with guns blazing and demand that people cut the rapist from our social circle was that I knew it would lead to my sexual history being picked over by a jury of peers and it was easier for me to try to bury it. Ironically this was a stick that was used to beat me with in the inevitable social trial that followed- why didn't you go to the police- why didn't you start a lynch mob. My close friends have nothing to do with him and thankfully neither of us live in the country any more so I very rarely have to see him. But the whole scenario is an example of why I think we have a long way to go towards an egalitarian society.


  • #141
    Don Kedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Don Kedick


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You mean the misandrist generalisations? If I recall correctly, you dragged it off topic so it's a tad rich to be seeing you backseat modding.

    Anyhow, that's my contribution and as much as I hate to agree with the likes of you, this is getting off topic.

    You mean saying that 99% of rape is committed by men? There's no misandry there. Now please stay on topic.


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  • #142
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mod

    Don Kedick banned for trolling. Do not post in this thread on your return.


  • #143
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,915 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    <modsnip>

    Please do not respond to a poster who has been threadbanned for trolling. You're around long enough to know better than that.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #144
    Kav0777
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Kav0777


    Reasons feminism is still relevant: Lingerie football on UPC channel 422 now. Female american football played in bras and knickers with pads, it's ridiculous...


  • #145
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    The situation in question is complicated. I don't have the energy to post the full story. But I do agree that in the omnishambles that followed was contributed to by both male and female inegalitarian attitudes. Part of the reason that I didn't come out with guns blazing and demand that people cut the rapist from our social circle was that I knew it would lead to my sexual history being picked over by a jury of peers and it was easier for me to try to bury it. Ironically this was a stick that was used to beat me with in the inevitable social trial that followed- why didn't you go to the police- why didn't you start a lynch mob. My close friends have nothing to do with him and thankfully neither of us live in the country any more so I very rarely have to see him. But the whole scenario is an example of why I think we have a long way to go towards an egalitarian society.

    I can relate entirely to this, having seen a number of my own friends and acquaintances in similar situations.

    I think we need feminism because rape and sexual assault are, in my experience of the world around me, not usually this big, bad bogeyman who drags a woman down an alleyway, beats her forty shades of blue and forces himself upon her at knife point. There's no social nuance at play there, we all know that's horrific, evil and wrong.

    More frequently it follows the lines of the above, there are maybe layers of connected friends surrounding the perpetrator and the victim, the social intricacies blur things somewhat and it becomes a lose-lose for the woman - damned if you speak up, damned if you don't. Speak up and be the subject of scrutiny, side-taking, judgement and gossip. Don't speak up, and it can't really have been rape rape, can it? You obviously led him on, or you were both drunk and the line got blurred, or you have a sexual history with him anyway and these things happen, or or or...

    All you have to do is take a look at a single thread in another forum on this site on the subject of the allegation of rape to see how these judgements come into play and tar the reputation of someone who decides to be come forward about an attack or assault. Or because some woman somewhere cried wolf this one time, it means every woman everywhere who does the terrifying thing of speaking up should be doubted until she comes up with scientific evidence or CCTV footage or whatever to prove that she's not lying and even then, well she went on a date with him, she did this, she did that...

    I understand 'innocent until proven guilty' and 'no smoke without fire' but it's also true that most women don't make this stuff up, 1 out of 4 women will be sexually assaulted or raped and the majority of those won't say a damn thing because of all the above reasons.


  • #146
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I blame societal factors for this. I think a lot of people who commit the "blurred lines" rapes don't even know what they're doing. They're literally not thinking. It's partly because our conversations about sex and consent are so unclear. Feminism should (and does) play a big part in clearing up what is and isn't acceptable.

    I think the whole "rape is evil" thing causes a lot of problems too. Because straight away (some) people immediately think rapists are evil. And the whole presumption that no-one normal could be consciously evil. I know my rapist isn't evil. She was living up to a role society expected of her. She was a confused teenager. I was a confused teenager. As someone pointed out to me she probably thought she was doing me a favour, "Surely this is what everyone would want!" Purely because that's what society, in a really unintended and manipulative way says people do want. That's why the message about consent, respecting people, and being consciously aware of what you and your partner is doing and wants when it comes to sex is so important. When everyone gets the message that sex can be an amazing thing, but also an incredibly damaging thing, so it needs to be negotiated carefully then we'll be a lot better off.

    And I think this is what feminism is doing at the moment, so that's a reason for feminism.


  • #147
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Kav0777 wrote: »
    Reasons feminism is still relevant: Lingerie football on UPC channel 422 now. Female american football played in bras and knickers with pads, it's ridiculous...

    It's horrible, isn't it? And it makes a mockery of any woman who actually wants to play the sport and be taken seriously.


  • #148
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭YumCha


    Because of every time we're told to speak up or fight back when being harassed and something like this happens :(

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tugce-albayrak-germany-pays-tribute-to-student-killed-for-helping-harassed-women-9892851.html


  • #149
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Kav0777 wrote: »
    Reasons feminism is still relevant: Lingerie football on UPC channel 422 now. Female american football played in bras and knickers with pads, it's ridiculous...
    I can understand why you personally might find it distasteful but what is the link between that and feminism being relevant? :confused:


  • #150
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    I can understand why you personally might find it distasteful but what is the link between that and feminism being relevant? :confused:

    For me, anyway, it's making a mockery of women in sport. To my mind, the statement it's making is that women's primary function is to look good and have their bodies on show, rather than women's sport being about what they can do with their bodies. It's insulting to women who want to be taken seriously as athletes.

    I've heard similar criticisms from female pro surfers who apparently get pressured to surf in bikinis rather than wetsuits. Also sponsorship deals tend to go to more attractive female surfers whereas sponsorship deals for male surfers tend to be awarded on the merit of their surfing skill.


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  • #151
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    For me, anyway, it's making a mockery of women in sport. To my mind, the statement it's making is that women's primary function is to look good and have their bodies on show, rather than women's sport being about what they can do with their bodies. It's insulting to women who want to be taken seriously as athletes.

    I've heard similar criticisms from female pro surfers who apparently get pressured to surf in bikinis rather than wetsuits. Also sponsorship deals tend to go to more attractive female surfers whereas sponsorship deals for male surfers tend to be awarded on the merit of their surfing skill.
    Again, I can understand that but feminism is about choice and if some women willing participate in that sport, then so be it. Some women may not like it but the mantra "my body, my choice" still applies.

    About the surfers, it sucks and there is no quick fix solution for that.


This discussion has been closed.
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