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Links234

I need feminism because of this: http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/nov/07/protesters-force-us-pick-up-artist-julien-blanc-to-quit-australian-tour

"Pick up artist" chokes women in public, grabs women's heads and motions them towards his crotch, and men pay money for a seminar from this psycho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grV1iDns87s

sunshine and showers

Oh good god. That man needs to be arrested for assault or something. He'd be getting a swift kick if he touched me.

eviltwin

Links234 wrote: »

I need feminism because of this: http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/nov/07/protesters-force-us-pick-up-artist-julien-blanc-to-quit-australian-tour

"Pick up artist" chokes women in public, grabs women's heads and motions them towards his crotch, and men pay money for a seminar from this psycho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grV1iDns87s

I don't know what is worse, that some guy is teaching this to other men or that other men are signing up for his classes in the first place.

Neyite

That is sexual assault, surely?

Rosy Posy

Check out Jenn Li and #TakeDownJulienBlanc. Lots of hotels are cancelling his seminars. Apparently Elliot Rodgers was subscribed to his YouTube page.

Links234

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Check out Jenn Li and #TakeDownJulienBlanc. Lots of hotels are cancelling his seminars. Apparently Elliot Rodgers was subscribed to his YouTube page.

I read one of her articles about this earlier, and she makes a very good point about how there's a whole racism angle to this as well, in the way that he targets asian women in particular. There's this whole idea that asian women are more "submissive" and "know their place" or aren't tainted by feminism or whatever, as if asian women were all the same. Is she from Japan? Korea? The Philipines? Thailand? Singapore? Vietnam? Or one half a dozen other countries? Yeah, there's a certain kinda creep who fetishizes asian women without knowing a thing about their culture because they've heard X racist bull**** generalization.

But ****ing hell, the guy is a psycho one way or another
In the video I posted there, towards the end he's grabbing a woman who's working in a convenience store by the head and she looks ****ing terrified! How can someone be so oblivious to social queues like that, or lack empathy to that degree, that they think that's ok? That's not even in some bar or something, that's while someone's at work for crying out loud! And this jackass is "teaching" people this? ****ing hell...

Frito

This sad story is giving me goosebumps.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/06/call-crown-prosecutors-account-suicide-alleged-rape-victim

A UK woman died by suicide three days before her trial for false rape allegation was to begin.
Her allegation had been investigated by the police but not brought to trial due to lack of supporting evidence. Police did not find evidence she had lied.
The CPS brought the charge against the woman following a private prosecution by her alleged attacker.

Cosmicfox

Links234 wrote: »

I read one of her articles about this earlier, and she makes a very good point about how there's a whole racism angle to this as well, in the way that he targets asian women in particular. There's this whole idea that asian women are more "submissive" and "know their place" or aren't tainted by feminism or whatever, as if asian women were all the same. Is she from Japan? Korea? The Philipines? Thailand? Singapore? Vietnam? Or one half a dozen other countries? Yeah, there's a certain kinda creep who fetishizes asian women without knowing a thing about their culture because they've heard X racist bull**** generalization.

But ****ing hell, the guy is a psycho one way or another
In the video I posted there, towards the end he's grabbing a woman who's working in a convenience store by the head and she looks ****ing terrified! How can someone be so oblivious to social queues like that, or lack empathy to that degree, that they think that's ok? That's not even in some bar or something, that's while someone's at work for crying out loud! And this jackass is "teaching" people this? ****ing hell...

I've seen this creepy 'yellow-fever' stuff firsthand. My friend from the Philippines has a 'save me' gesture for nights out for this kind of thing.

YumCha

Cosmicfox wrote: »

I've seen this creepy 'yellow-fever' stuff firsthand. My friend from the Philippines has a 'save me' gesture for nights out for this kind of thing.

I posted this in the old thread, but it seems appropriate to resurrect (warning: LOTS of swearing!)

JasperGeorge.

Cosmicfox wrote: »

I've seen this creepy 'yellow-fever' stuff firsthand. My friend from the Philippines has a 'save me' gesture for nights out for this kind of thing.

A lot of men who are friends of mine (don't judge I'm a nice guy) misunderstand cultural stereotypes. I have found chinese women to be actually less submissive than western women. Japanese culture is overly polite and women tend to be different there and more supplicant. But today's generation have very different expectations.

I was a month in Thailand and the growing hostility towards me as a white man was palpable. I was suspect at most clubs where there might be a lot of locals.

There are a lot of people on the make towards white tourists in some countries. Needless to say those types of men attract the type of scum they are themselves to be honest.

It's interesting the change in attitudes towards westerners in Asia recently though. It's not a high opinion.

JasperGeorge.

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Check out Jenn Li and #TakeDownJulienBlanc. Lots of hotels are cancelling his seminars. Apparently Elliot Rodgers was subscribed to his YouTube page.

The while Julian Blanc thing as the man who chokes women around the world made me sick. I just hope the backlash doesn't get out of hand. People should take the higher moral ground.

It's quite a damning insight into a whole subculture. I was mildly aware of it and I even knew it was active in Dublin night clubs and socially. I think most guys know a friend who has dabbled with it. I hope it wards the naive off before they get too sucked in.

As a man to me at first glance it seemed too stupid to be harmful, a con.

I am not surprised such a mentally ill young man got wrapped up in it.

TheBeardedLady

The while Julian Blanc thing as the man who chokes women around the world made me sick. I just hope the backlash doesn't get out of hand. People should take the higher moral ground.

You mean do absolutely nothing whatsoever? What good will that do?

Yarf Yarf

Links234 wrote: »

I read one of her articles about this earlier, and she makes a very good point about how there's a whole racism angle to this as well, in the way that he targets asian women in particular. There's this whole idea that asian women are more "submissive" and "know their place" or aren't tainted by feminism or whatever, as if asian women were all the same. Is she from Japan? Korea? The Philipines? Thailand? Singapore? Vietnam? Or one half a dozen other countries? Yeah, there's a certain kinda creep who fetishizes asian women without knowing a thing about their culture because they've heard X racist bull**** generalization.

I personally know men who completely fetishize Asian women and their culture. I think it might be a pretty common thing, and I'm sure porn has a lot to answer for with it. It always comes off as a bit icky to me, sometimes like a "lol asians are so weird and kinky, they'll do anything!" kind of sentiment more than anything.

YumCha

Men explain things to me

YumCha

Frito wrote: »

This sad story is giving me goosebumps.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/06/call-crown-prosecutors-account-suicide-alleged-rape-victim

A UK woman died by suicide three days before her trial for false rape allegation was to begin.
Her allegation had been investigated by the police but not brought to trial due to lack of supporting evidence. Police did not find evidence she had lied.
The CPS brought the charge against the woman following a private prosecution by her alleged attacker.

This is seriously horrifying We have this farcical situation where victims are told they should report - but when they do, they're frequently re-victimised.

Delirium

Tubridy giving airtime to the PUA twit that goes by the title of the Galway Player.

I really hope it was a character being played rather than honest opinion because, even not being female, I found his language extremely predatory and objectifying towards women.

eviltwin

Frito wrote: »

This sad story is giving me goosebumps.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/06/call-crown-prosecutors-account-suicide-alleged-rape-victim

A UK woman died by suicide three days before her trial for false rape allegation was to begin.
Her allegation had been investigated by the police but not brought to trial due to lack of supporting evidence. Police did not find evidence she had lied.
The CPS brought the charge against the woman following a private prosecution by her alleged attacker.

I'm very much on the fence about this. No one knows the true story here. If she did lie then her accused is well within his rights to take her to court and have that fact made public. The legal system can't not do its job just because someone is vulnerable mentally. I find it strange that the CPS were taking her to court when the police say there is no evidence to suggest she was lying but on the other hand would they really take someone to court with no evidence at all? The story is very vague and again this shows the danger of taking media reports as fact but yes, its very worrying that a rape victim will read this and think it means ANY woman who doesn't secure a conviction will be automatically assumed to be lying. Its very irresponsible of the media to report it without clarifying that.

YumCha

YumCha wrote: »

Men explain things to me

I've read it before and I quite liked it.
It's written well too:

I think I was at nine books at that point, including one that drew from primary documents and interviews about Women Strike for Peace. But explaining men still assume I am, in some sort of obscene impregnation metaphor, an empty vessel to be filled with their wisdom and knowledge

eviltwin wrote: »

The story is very vague and again this shows the danger of taking media reports as fact but yes, its very worrying that a rape victim will read this and think it means ANY woman who doesn't secure a conviction will be automatically assumed to be lying. Its very irresponsible of the media to report it without clarifying that.

That's the trouble. Not enough evidence to convict/he is innocent doesn't mean she's a mean lying horrible person

Frito

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm very much on the fence about this. No one knows the true story here. If she did lie then her accused is well within his rights to take her to court and have that fact made public. The legal system can't not do its job just because someone is vulnerable mentally. I find it strange that the CPS were taking her to court when the police say there is no evidence to suggest she was lying but on the other hand would they really take someone to court with no evidence at all? The story is very vague and again this shows the danger of taking media reports as fact but yes, its very worrying that a rape victim will read this and think it means ANY woman who doesn't secure a conviction will be automatically assumed to be lying. Its very irresponsible of the media to report it without clarifying that.

I think we can both agree that it's sad, obviously as the full facts are not known I didn't want to take a definitive stance. It did stop me in my tracks though.
It seems the DPP are investigating this case

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29946823

You will note that 'inconsistencies' have been added as a reason for her allegation to not proceed to trial.

YumCha

eviltwin wrote: »

No one knows the true story here.

This type of phrasing, along with the ever-popular "we don't have all the facts" is really a veiled way of calling her a liar.

Our stories are automatically classed as not being evidence, even when for many victims it's all we have.

YumCha

I can't believe I'm citing the Daily Mail in this discussion - but it's got more detail than the Guardian link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826358/Eleanor-Freitas-father-s-agony-suicide-three-days-trial.html

eviltwin

YumCha wrote: »

This type of phrasing, along with the ever-popular "we don't have all the facts" is really a veiled way of calling her a liar.

Our stories are automatically classed as not being evidence, even when for many victims it's all we have.

Don't misquote me YumCha. I am not saying this woman is a liar. We don't have the facts, we have the drip feed the media want to give us which depending on the publication could be skewed to make either her or the accused appear to be the victim. I won't be judge and jury on the basis of a handful of media articles.

YumCha

eviltwin wrote: »

Don't misquote me YumCha. I am not saying this woman is a liar. We don't have the facts, we have the drip feed the media want to give us which depending on the publication could be skewed to make either her or the accused appear to be the victim. I won't be judge and jury on the basis of a handful of media articles.

Sigh. This is proving my point exactly - all of us are forming an opinion on the basis of what we have. If and when there is new information - we will change our opinion.

It's exactly this classification of victims telling their stories being automatically regarded as not factual which I'm getting at. I choose to believe victims - especially ones that take the step of going to the police. I'm well aware that this support may one day be erroneous, but given the rate of rape/sexual assault vs the rate of false rape convictions - I doubt I'll see it.

eviltwin

YumCha wrote: »

Sigh. This is proving my point exactly - all of us are forming an opinion on the basis of what we have. If and when there is new information - we will change our opinion.

It's exactly this classification of victims telling their stories being automatically regarded as not factual which I'm getting at. I choose to believe victims - especially ones that take the step of going to the police. I'm well aware that this support may one day be erroneous, but given the rate of rape/sexual assault vs the rate of false rape convictions - I doubt I'll see it.

That is the thing, I am NOT forming an opinion. I am keeping an open mind. You can't assume because someone says X happened that it happened. You need evidence, you need to be able to prove it happened. If there is no proof that doesn't mean the person lied but the legal system can't convict people on the say so of someone else.

Its not the job of the accused to prove their innocence, the law works on the basis of innocent until proven guilty. I appreciate that can make rape and sexual assault convictions sometimes impossible to prove but what else can you do?

I would of course expect that anyone going to the police to report a crime is treated with respect and sensitivity and that they too keep an open mind.

Links234

Cosmicfox wrote: »

I've seen this creepy 'yellow-fever' stuff firsthand. My friend from the Philippines has a 'save me' gesture for nights out for this kind of thing.

Oh tell me about it. A while back there was a few of us having a night out, and this really creepy guy came over and just plonked himself next to us and started being a real sex pest to my friend who's Japanese. He was being creepy to me too, tried to touch my hair at one point, but he was way more fixated on my friend. We moved, kept trying to ignore him, flat out tell him we didn't want to talk to him, to go away, etc. Another friend (a guy) had to literally grab him by the arm and pull him away telling him to **** off before he left us alone. Creepy as hell. :eek:

Frito

I appreciate Yumcha's position re the victim's statement as evidence, it obviously is evidence. I think the standard of presumption of innocence would mean a lot of people remain on the fence, until a conviction is secured. Both Ms De Freitas and her alleged attacker are entitled to it, and neither allegation has been tested via jury to result in a conviction.

At least some investigation by the DPP will take place. The BBC article I linked earlier has made reference to her family wanting the coroner's investigation suspended in favour of an enquiry under Article 2 of HR Convention.

Links234

SW wrote: »

Tubridy giving airtime to the PUA twit that goes by the title of the Galway Player.

I really hope it was a character being played rather than honest opinion because, even not being female, I found his language extremely predatory and objectifying towards women.

I think It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia absolutely skewered the whole thing with the character of Dennis, the way he's giving it all this kinda PUA guff, but he's just completely unhinged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1lc6KASWg

YumCha

eviltwin wrote: »

You can't assume because someone says X happened that it happened. You need evidence, you need to be able to prove it happened.

I'm not asking anyone to be convicted on the basis of an allegation. I am saying that me believing someone is a rape victim should not have to be conditional on a legal conviction of their attacker.

Basically - someone avoiding conviction does not automatically discredit a victim's story for me. Legally innocent ≠ didn't do it.

I'm posting this article from a former Crown prosecutor because it bears repeating: What kind of woman won't report sexual assault?

eviltwin

YumCha wrote: »

I'm not asking anyone to be convicted on the basis of an allegation. I am saying that me believing someone is a rape victim should not have to be conditional on a legal conviction of their attacker.

Basically - someone avoiding conviction does not automatically discredit a victim's story for me. Legally innocent ≠ didn't do it.

I'm posting this article from a former Crown prosecutor because it bears repeating: What kind of woman won't report sexual assault?

I know all that but the accused who proclaims his innocence is entitled to the same respect imo. I take offense at the idea that you can't do that without being seen to think the woman is automatically lying.

Semele

Because we still haven't moved past the use of semi-naked women to advertise everything, no matter how irrelevant. The Malmaison in Manchester has been criticised recently for plastering its hoarding (renovation is currently underway) with pictures of normal workmen holding tools...and some women. In contrast to the men, the women, funnily enough, don't look like they're working- unless it's in a porno set on a building site:mad:

It's just such tired and lazy imagery I find it hard to believe anyone ok-ed that design. Good article below from Jeanette Winterson on the reasons it worth getting offended by things like that rather than turning a blind eye. The comments on the article are predictably depressing though.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/31/jeanette-winterson-hoarding-malmaison-hotel-manchester-sexism-feminism

Precious flower

SW wrote: »

Tubridy giving airtime to the PUA twit that goes by the title of the Galway Player.

I really hope it was a character being played rather than honest opinion because, even not being female, I found his language extremely predatory and objectifying towards women.

Yeah I saw an article about him in an Irish magazine today. To be honest I thought it was a joke because the statements the guy was coming out with just seemed so ridiculous. I was full sure it had to be a joke as I thought to give this guy any kind of press, if he genuinely believes what he's preaching, annoys me not to mention the title of his book 'Shift and drift' sounded like a teenage boys book title. Just saw this article about him, ouch - http://oracularspectacular.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/galway-player-almost-definitely-a-virgin-says-top-psychologist/

newmug

IMO feminism is akin to the South Kerry Independence Alliance. It had a specific use once, due to a number of glaring inequalities, but these things have been taken care of and it has outlived its usefulness. Now both feminism and the SKIA do more harm than good to their original cause.

Sauve

Mod

Newmug, do not post in this thread again.

meeeeh

I actually think some of this pua nonsense is very close to what religious cults or herbalife salesmen are peddling. They are all preying on deluded or vulnerable people.

paperclip2

Oh for f**ks sake. Is this for real? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/when-a-woman-says-no-to-sex-she-doesnt-really-mean-it-polish-mep-30730156.html

Pearl of wisdom no.1:

Claiming women’s intelligence could be heightened by contact with male sperm, he told the Observer: “Semen probably is not wasted, because nature usually makes use of the material it has, and there is a hypothesis that the attitudes of men are passed to women by way of the semen which penetrates the tissue…there is a very strong argument for this hypothesis, that now when [oral] contraceptives are much more in use, the women become much more independent.”

No2.

“Women usually pretend that they don’t want [sex],” he added. “The percentage of women who pretend that they don’t want to have sex, but they do want in fact, is about 30 or 40 per cent.”

No.3

Mr Korwin-Mikke, who approved Mr Iwaszkiewicz's appointment to the EFDD, also called for the standard of proof in rape cases to be changed so two witnesses were needed for a conviction unless there was “some visible sign of rape”

iwantmydinner

paperclip2 wrote: »

Oh for f**ks sake. Is this for real? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/when-a-woman-says-no-to-sex-she-doesnt-really-mean-it-polish-mep-30730156.html

Pearl of wisdom no.1:

No2.

No.3

Oh dear god no, please don't let this be real.

meeeeh

Well he is a good match for ukip. I don't want to generalise but Poland are electing some scary people lately.

ancapailldorcha

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually think some of this pua nonsense is very close to what religious cults or herbalife salesmen are peddling. They are all preying on deluded or vulnerable people.

+1

I've been single all my life and I've had to move about for work reasons and I've been tempted to indulge in it. I read up about it on non-PUA sources and felt I'd be better off single than pretending to be someone I'm not for a string of one-night stands.

Delirium

paperclip2 wrote: »

Oh for f**ks sake. Is this for real? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/when-a-woman-says-no-to-sex-she-doesnt-really-mean-it-polish-mep-30730156.html

Pearl of wisdom no.1:

No2.

No.3

He also thinks women aren't interested in politics.:rolleyes:

One of Korwin-Mikke's particular opinions that raised public attention is denying the sensibility of women's suffrage (arguing that most women were not interested in politics anyway, and would more often vote for a welfare state.[12]) He also claims that women are generally less intelligent than men.[9][13] To back up this claim he pointed out that in top 100 chess players there is only one woman.[3] On the other hand, he does not deny women the passive right to voteI][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I and he claims that Margaret Thatcher is his political authority; he attended her funeral.

Wiki

sunshine and showers

Some people shouldn't be allowed out in public, never mind in public representation. :mad:

Jenneke87

You wonder what happend to those people who develop crazy views like that. Really, we're all just dumb virgins till we have sex and then suddenly....a light a turns on in our brain and we become intelligent. Geeh, thanks....

Links234

Petition against Julien Blanc has been submitted to the Japanese Immigration http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/11/10/voices/36000-dont-want-pick-artist-blanc-drop-japan

Sources in law enforcement, including Customs, say there are valid reasons for denying entry. First, Blanc may have been working without a proper visa during his previous “seminar” in Tokyo. Second, the video shows him committing what appears to be forcible indecency (kyōsei waisetsu), a serious crime in Japan.

“While kyōsei waisetsu usually requires a criminal complaint from the victim, he could also be investigated for simple assault and/or obstruction of business, for grabbing a convenience store employee and forcibly kissing her and holding onto her,” said a police source.

The Black Oil

Sexual assault in the military. More at Mother Jones, not an easy read.



Dr. Nancy Lutwak, a VA emergency room physician in New York, opened up a room just for female vets so they could have a safe place to share their experience of being raped in the military and the health problems they face due to the assaults.

Links234

This petition to deny Julien Blanc entry in to the UK is gaining a lot of traction, and he's getting seriously bad press in Japan.

Yarf Yarf

Links234 wrote: »

This petition to deny Julien Blanc entry in to the UK is gaining a lot of traction, and he's getting seriously bad press in Japan.

I signed this earlier this morning. Apparently the home office has said that any person who is doing something that could be considered counter-productive to society can be refused entry to the UK. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

YumCha

I just can't even with this - if you make it to the story about the two-year-old you will explode with rage (TW for rape, sexual assault, CSA):

http://jezebel.com/new-orleans-cops-straight-up-didnt-investigate-over-1-1-1657873672

Links234

Both Brazil and South Korea are denying Julien Blanc entry

Sala

I hope he's not allowed do any of his seminars. I saw his "colleague's" video where he basically boasts about raping a woman... There are no words.

YumCha

Jessica Ennis gets rape threats after saying she would request the removal of her name from a stand if Sheffield took back convicted rapist Ched Evans.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/jessica-ennis-hill-rape-threats-ched-evans-stance

allym

YumCha wrote: »

Jessica Ennis gets rape threats after saying she would request the removal of her name from a stand if Sheffield took back convicted rapist Ched Evans.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/jessica-ennis-hill-rape-threats-ched-evans-stance

Dear Jesus.

I mean, clearly these people are thick. They're defending a rapist, by saying he should rape her.