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Dash cam saves your ass (no Roundabout stuff please :)

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Comments

  • Options
    #6332
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭josip


    CiniO wrote: »
    But this sign does not apply when traffic lights are in operation.

    OK, I'll explain.
    In Poland (and nearly everywhere on the Continent as far as I know), right of way on junctions is either decided by general law rules, road signs, traffic lights, or policeman directing traffic.
    Priority is in order I listed.
    So if there is junction without any signs, traffic lights, or policeman, then general rule of giving way to vehicles coming from the right apply.
    If there are road signs (establishing which road had priority), then you forget about general rule of giving way to vehicle coming from the right, but just obey the signs.
    If there are traffic lights, then you forget about general rule and the signs, and follow traffic light.
    And if there is policeman on the junction, you forget about anything above, and just obey his signals (f.e. if you have red light but policeman points you to go, then you just go).

    Every single junction with traffic light, is equipped with traffic signs showing priority. This is just for case when traffic lights are off or broken. Then people need to obey traffic signs. But when traffic lights are in operation, then you discard the signs.

    In that video, camera drive had green light, and clio driver was going on red.

    Ramming car had a nodding dog on the dash. Nuff said.


  • Options
    #6333
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Try this one.
    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/watch-terrifying-moment-car-driver-7984426

    Brill driving - as if it happens to him everyday, just calmly pushes him into the shoulder and stops. Fair play.


  • Options
    #6334
    Chippy01
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Chippy01


    CiniO wrote: »
    And now question to you - I see you are of the opinion that in that video camera driver was at fault, as he went on green light through "yield" sign without checking for traffic coming.
    If there was no "yield" sign there at all, would you still be of the same opinion?

    Of course, if there was no yield sign, the 'minor road joining a major road' rules apply. Would you just drive straight out from a minor road onto a major road without looking?


    Any chance of you providing a translated version of the Polish Rules of the Road? It must be interesting reading.


  • Options
    #6335
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Chippy01 wrote: »
    Of course, if there was no yield sign, the 'minor road joining a major road' rules apply.
    Actually you are wrong again.
    If there was no light signals or road signs, then standard rules would apply giving priority to vehicle coming from the right. So cam driver would have right of way over clio. But that's not really relevant, as there are signs and traffic lights.

    Would you just drive straight out from a minor road onto a major road without looking?
    No I wouldn't. And I don't think I ever did. But that's still irrelevant, as there is no minor or major road, because of traffic lighs.

    And I would be very wary of driving from the road with green light through the road having red light without looking, but I would lie if I said I never did that.
    Once you have a green light, you need a bit of trust for other driver that they will actually stop on red.

    And your argument of minor and major road is completely pointless here, as when traffic lights are there, it's the road with green light which has a priority. There's no minor or major road.
    Any chance of you providing a translated version of the Polish Rules of the Road? It must be interesting reading.

    Here you go:
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v10.pl%2Fprawo%2FKodeks%2Cdrogowy%2C-%2CDzial%2CII%2C-%2CRuch%2Cdrogowy%2C1.html&edit-text=&act=url

    As it's translated by google translate, grammar might be bit strange.

    Relevant part here Art 5, point 3.
    3. The light signals have priority over road signs governing the right of way.
    Which means in short, that you disregard road signs governing right of way if there are traffic light signals.


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    #6336
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Which means in short, that you disregard road signs governing right of way if there are traffic light signals.
    Sounds like a bit of poor planning & design by whoever installed the lights & signs if the motorist has to decide which takes prescience over the other, they should be designed in such a way that there is no ambiguity as to the priority.

    Mixed signals are often a cause of crashes!


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  • Options
    #6337
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sounds like a bit of poor planning & design by whoever installed the lights & signs if the motorist has to decide which takes prescience over the other, they should be designed in such a way that there is no ambiguity as to the priority.

    Mixed signals are often a cause of crashes!

    Well I might be wrong, but I think such system works nearly all over the Continent.

    It makes perfect sense. You have traffic lights controlled junctions, but you also have road priority signs (stating which road is major road and which is minor road) in case traffic lights don't work.
    Very often at night traffic light are turned off, not to delay drivers on empty junctions, and then they have to adhere to the priority road signs.
    Otherwise, at daytime when traffic lights are in operation, you disregard signs, and obey traffic lights.
    It's so natural for me (and probably for anyone driving on the Continent), that I don't really even see those road signs when traffic lights are in operation.

    Much better than Irish system, where in case of traffic lights failure, no one knows what to do and who has right of way. Also this forces lights to be in operation 24/7 and often you need to wait for minute every few hundred meters on red light at night on empty roads.


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    #6338
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    Some craic if I appeared in a video on here, made a show of myself earlier when a car let me out of a side road, I waved, give it a little too much welly on the muddy road, arse spun out leaving me pointing at the kerb, then massive over correction the other way, then correcting the other direction, before wobbling up the road. Smoooooth! :o


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    #6339
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    Some craic if I appeared in a video on here, made a show of myself earlier when a car let me out of a side road, I waved, give it a little too much welly on the muddy road, arse spun out leaving me pointing at the kerb, then massive over correction the other way, then correcting the other direction, before wobbling up the road. Smoooooth! :o

    So now we are waiting for someone to post a video ;)


  • Options
    #6340
    Chippy01
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Chippy01


    CiniO wrote: »
    Actually you are wrong again.
    If there was no light signals or road signs, then standard rules would apply giving priority to vehicle coming from the right. So cam driver would have right of way over clio. But that's not really relevant, as there are signs and traffic lights.
    .

    Do you actually watch the clips? The cam-car was on a single track road and was entering a multi track road (4 lanes I think). To me that is a minor to a major road.
    The lines painted on the road indicated the end of the single track. Common sense should tell you to double check before driving out.

    By your definition, if there were no lights or signs at that junction the cam-car had right of way (exiting from the single track) over the Clio on the multi track road?

    Yes, the Clio should have stopped on the red light but it didn't. If the cam-car driver was paying attention to his surroundings he would have seen this.


  • Options
    #6341
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭degsie


    Any chance of some vids lads, instead of just
    quoted
    posts?


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  • Options
    #6342
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Chippy01 wrote: »
    Do you actually watch the clips? The cam-car was on a single track road and was entering a multi track road (4 lanes I think). To me that is a minor to a major road.

    The lines painted on the road indicated the end of the single track.
    First of all - amount of lanes doesn't really dictate which road is major and which is minor, even though indeed in most cases wider roads with more lanes are major roads.

    On this particular junction, road which cam-driver was going would be minor road and was joining major road. That's what "yield" sign suggest, and road markings you mentioned. However this is irrelevant, as there were traffic lights which effectively cancel any relation between major or minor road.
    When there are traffic lights, it's just traffic which has green light and traffic which has red light, former one being the one allowed to go, and latter forced to stop.
    Common sense should tell you to double check before driving out.
    Well as I already said few times. Common sense should tell to look around at all times when you're driving but sometimes you might miss something, especially something which you wouldn't expect.
    By your definition, if there were no lights or signs at that junction the cam-car had right of way (exiting from the single track) over the Clio on the multi track road?
    Well, it's not my definition.
    It's general rule of giving way at junctions to traffic coming from the right, which applies all over Europe pretty much, and is clearly written in Polish traffic law.
    But that's only hypothetical, as you can see there are lights and road signs.

    I don't think I've ever seen a case where there wasn't priority signs on such a big junction.
    Yes, the Clio should have stopped on the red light but it didn't. If the cam-car driver was paying attention to his surroundings he would have seen this.
    I agree.
    But it doesn't make him at fault at the accident.
    Clio is at fault, as he run the red light.

    EDIT:
    Even more.
    Have a look at this video, which is not related to the event from first video anyhow, but just shows the junction from point of view of the clio (as it's the same junction). He had very clear set of traffic lights in front of him, and he must have clearly run through red. Angle at which camera driver on original video was going, made it even harder for him to see clio coming.
    Anyway - this was another real example of "dashcam saving ass", as in the comments he said that clio driver was claiming that he had green light and cam-driver had red. Police arrived, and as there were no witnesses, it would be very hard to judge, but as cam-driver showed them dashcam recording, then police awarded 100% fault to clio, and rightly so.


  • Options
    #6343
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    degsie wrote: »
    Any chance of some vids lads, instead of just posts?

    I put 4 videos 2 pages ago, and we are just discussing about them. I though that's what the thread was about.
    If you want videos, feel free to break up discussion and paste some videos yourself. That's the better way of stopping the discussion than just asking for more videos.
    If someone will have some interesting videos they will post them.
    And while no one has anything interesting to put up, let us discuss.


  • Options
    #6344
    Chippy01
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Chippy01


    Sorry CiniO, I've never gotten the hang of breaking up quotes like you can. You'll just have to pick your way through.


    First of all - amount of lanes doesn't really dictate which road is major and which is minor, even though indeed in most cases wider roads with more lanes are major roads.
    Bit of a contradiction there, is there not?


    On this particular junction, road which cam-driver was going would be minor road and was joining major road. That's what "yield" sign suggest, and road markings you mentioned. However this is irrelevant, as there were traffic lights which effectively cancel any relation between major or minor road.
    How is this irrelevant? How can traffic lights cancel relevancy?


    When there are traffic lights, it's just traffic which has green light and traffic which has red light, former one being the one allowed to go, and latter forced to stop.
    GO - provided it is safe to do so. The same applies to the stop light as well.


    Well as I already said few times. Common sense should tell to look around at all times when you're driving but sometimes you might miss something, especially something which you wouldn't expect.
    On this we agree.


    Well, it's not my definition.
    It's general rule of giving way at junctions to traffic coming from the right, which applies all over Europe pretty much, and is clearly written in Polish traffic law.
    But that's only hypothetical, as you can see there are lights and road signs.
    By your definition, if a minor road was joining a major road on it's right (as in that clip), the traffic on the major road has to give way? There was a yield sign on the minor road that conflicts with that rule.

    I don't think I've ever seen a case where there wasn't priority signs on such a big junction.


    I agree.
    But it doesn't make him at fault at the accident.
    Clio is at fault, as he run the red light.
    The Clio running the red light did not cause the accident, it's the cam-car pulling out (because he had absolute right of way) in front of the Clio.
    The accident wouldn't have happened I f(a) the Clio had stopped, or (b) if the cam-car driver had checked before proceeding.
    Many a driver has been killed or injured because of the ''It's my right of way so everyone else back off'' attitude.

    EDIT:
    Even more.
    Have a look at this video, which is not related to the event from first video anyhow, but just shows the junction from point of view of the clio (as it's the same junction). He had very clear set of traffic lights in front of him, and he must have clearly run through red. Angle at which camera driver on original video was going, made it even harder for him to see clio coming.
    Anyway - this was another real example of "dashcam saving ass", as in the comments he said that clio driver was claiming that he had green light and cam-driver had red. Police arrived, and as there were no witnesses, it would be very hard to judge, but as cam-driver showed them dashcam recording, then police awarded 100% fault to clio, and rightly so.
    Different angle, but still a minor road joining a major road.



    @ degsie, feel free to put some vids up if you're getting bored.


  • Options
    #6345
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Chippy01 wrote: »
    Sorry CiniO, I've never gotten the hang of breaking up quotes like you can. You'll just have to pick your way through.
    No bother.
    Just in the beginnin in relation to your all replay - you still seem to ignore the most important fact here - the video is from Poland and Polish traffic law applies. You seem to judge the situation by Irish traffic law, which just doesn't make sense.
    Bit of a contradiction there, is there not?
    No contradiction at all. I said in most cases wider road with greater traffic is major road, but it's not something you can assume automatically. It's the road signs which dictate it and you have to look at them. But that's not relevant to the video.
    How is this irrelevant? How can traffic lights cancel relevancy?
    How can traffic lights cancel relevancy? Very simple - because they do. That are the rules. As I pointed above - this is in Poland and Polish law applies, and this law (which I quoted to you earlier) says clearly that traffic lights cancel priority on junctions set by road signs. You have to understand that's really the case.
    GO - provided it is safe to do so. The same applies to the stop light as well.
    Same as above - no such clause as "if it's safe to do so" in Polish law in relation to green light. You can not drive through green light if there's no space to continue, and generally you have to be extra careful when driving through the junction, but no such clause in traffic law as " go if it's safe to do so".
    You are again mixing Irish law with Polish law.
    On this we agree.
    Nice one ;)
    By your definition, if a minor road was joining a major road on it's right (as in that clip), the traffic on the major road has to give way? There was a yield sign on the minor road that conflicts with that rule.
    Exactly as you say. If there wasn't any road signs, traffic on the wider road would have to give way to traffic from the small road coming from the right. That's because of the rule I mentioned above of giving way of traffic coming from the right on the junctions. If that was the case, none of these roads would be major or minor. They would just be both of equal importance.
    But exactly as you say - as we can see there are road signs (which have higher priority than general rules) so traffic from minor road has to give way to traffic on main road. Those signs cancel general rule of giving way to vehicles coming from the rights.
    And again, as there are traffic lights, they go further, and cancel road signs, so there is no major and minor road anymore. There is just road with red and green signal where car on road with green signal are allowed to go, and the ones with red aren't.
    The Clio running the red light did not cause the accident,
    it's the cam-car pulling out (because he had absolute right of way) in front of the Clio.
    Are you serious?
    If this was in Ireland, and there wasn't any road signs setting priority on junctions (as there isn't any in Ireland on traffic lights controlled junctions), and two cars collided as one run on red light and other on green, would you really say it wasn't fault of the one who run on red?
    Are you saying it would be fault of driver who run on green?
    Because that's exactly what you are saying above.
    The accident wouldn't have happened I f(a) the Clio had stopped, or (b) if the cam-car driver had checked before proceeding.
    Agree.
    Many a driver has been killed or injured because of the ''It's my right of way so everyone else back off'' attitude.
    Agree.
    Different angle, but still a minor road joining a major road.
    Back to the beginning - it isn't.
    If junction is controlled by traffic lights, there isn't such thing as major and minor roads on it.
    That seem to be a thing which you can't really understand and I think that's what causing all your confusion.

    To describe the situation from beginning. There was a junction controlled by traffic lights. Clio was on red, but ignored it and drove through.
    Cam-car was on green, and went through without looking, probably because angle was bit tricky and it would be hard to see if someone isn't breaking red light. Unfortunately clio did, and that's why accident happend. There's nothing more to it.
    100% fault of clio, and we are not just guessing, as author of the video said it in a comment what was Police's verdict on fault in this accident.


  • Options
    #6346
    Chippy01
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭Chippy01


    Having never driven in Poland, and judging by some of the conflicting traffic laws over there, I hope I never do - I can only look at it from the Irish/UK traffic law angle.

    Two 'offences' were committed.
    The first was the Clio breaking a red light; the second was the cam-car pulling out from a side road into the path of on-coming traffic.
    The accident only happened when the cam-car driver pulled out without looking, as the Clio had already gone through the lights (albeit on red) without incident, and the point of impact was well beyond the lights.

    ''we are not just guessing, as author of the video said it in a comment what was Police's verdict on fault in this accident'' - Well, if that's what the Polish police's verdict, so be it.

    But from my angle of looking at it, it was the wrong verdict.


  • Options
    #6347
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Chippy01 wrote: »
    Having never driven in Poland, and judging by some of the conflicting traffic laws over there, I hope I never do -
    There's no any conflicting traffic laws over there. I already explained how it works. Nothing conflicting about it.

    And just to warn you, it's not only Poland but AFAIK most of continent that has such rules.
    Generally traffic rules over continent are fairly unified, and very similar in all the countries.

    I can only look at it from the Irish/UK traffic law angle.
    And that's what you are doing, but that's wrong.
    You can't look at situation in other country with different law from point of view of other country and it's laws.
    Two 'offences' were committed.
    One only as I said several times.
    The first was the Clio breaking a red light;
    That's correct.
    the second was the cam-car pulling out from a side road into the path of on-coming traffic.
    This wasn't an offence as it wasn't any "side road" as you call it.
    It was a junction of two roads, where traffic on one had green light while traffic on other had red light. That's all it was.
    The accident only happened when the cam-car driver pulled out without looking, as the Clio had already gone through the lights (albeit on red) without incident, and the point of impact was well beyond the lights.
    Jeyses.
    Impact was in the middle of the junction between those two roads. Do you really think that if you cross red light, and accident doesn't happen by the signal, but in the middle of the junction instead, then you are in clear?
    ''we are not just guessing, as author of the video said it in a comment what was Police's verdict on fault in this accident'' - Well, if that's what the Polish police's verdict, so be it.

    But from my angle of looking at it, it was the wrong verdict.
    It might be wrong verdict from your angle of looking, but as I said above - you are looking from wrong angle. You are looking from traffic law you know which apply in Ireland, while you should look from angle of Polish laws which apply in Poland.

    Now again question to you, similar as last time, but you didn't really answer it clearly.
    Assume there is a junction like that in Ireland. Wide road with few lanes, and little side road joining the main road. No road signs, and this is controlled by traffic lights. Assume there is a car A going on the wide road, and fails to stop on red light, but plunged through the junction on red light.
    At the same time, there's another car B waiting from the side road, and when green light comes on for him, he moves ahead. Somehow he doesn't notice car A breaking a red light, and this ends up in collision.
    All this in Ireland.
    Whole fault will this be?
    A) Car A driver?
    B) Car B driver?
    C) Both?

    Please answer clearly if you don't mind - just option A, B or C.


  • Options
    #6348
    IP freely
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭IP freely


    Must this thread always decend into D*ck measuring contest.

    I love this thread but unfollowing it now. One poster seems to be always at the centre of it too.


  • Options
    #6349
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    A Close One



  • Options
    #6350
    Sterling Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭Sterling Archer


    How do I report a post when on a mobile? .. I'm fairly tired of this thread turning into a pissing contest with the same usual contenders.


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    #6351
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭degsie


    Shane_ef wrote: »
    How do I report a post when on a mobile? .. I'm fairly tired of this thread turning into a pissing contest with the same usual contenders.

    'Tis the little flag.


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    #6352
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Shane_ef wrote: »
    How do I report a post when on a mobile? .. I'm fairly tired of this thread turning into a pissing contest with the same usual contenders.

    Maybe let's then just split it into two threads.
    One particularly for videos and nothing else.
    And other one, where we are actually allowed to discuss videos.


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    #6353
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭degsie


    CiniO wrote: »
    Maybe let's then just split it into two threads.
    One particularly for videos and nothing else.
    And other one, where we are actually allowed to discuss videos.

    Discuss or argue?


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    #6354
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    CiniO wrote: »
    ....
    It's general rule of giving way at junctions to traffic coming from the right, which applies all over Europe pretty much, and is clearly written in Polish traffic law.But that's only hypothetical, as you can see there are lights and road signs.

    Is it not then the case that you should be obeying the road sign or signal in front of you and not the one behind you. As is the norm in other countries.


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    #6355
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    11 Minutes of Mayhem from our cousins in Oz



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    #6356
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    degsie wrote: »
    Discuss or argue?

    Well, if at least two members of discussion have opposite opinions, then it's arguing until one side can convince other side to their point.


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    #6357
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Is it not then the case that you should be obeying the road sign or signal in front of you and not the one behind you. As is the norm in other countries.

    You mean that traffic light signal was couple of meters ahead of "yield" sign?
    They both apply to the the same junction...


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    #6358
    joujoujou
    Registered Users Posts: 13,541 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    CiniO wrote: »
    You mean that traffic light signal was couple of meters ahead of "yield" sign?
    They both apply to the the same junction...
    Leave them.

    They don't even know Irish road traffic rules well enough, so it's really too much hassle to educate them this way. czolem.gif


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    #6359
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    11 Minutes of Mayhem from our cousins in Oz


    That is one lucky biker at the 1.12 mark.


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    #6360
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #6361
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    CiniO wrote: »
    You mean that traffic light signal was couple of meters ahead of "yield" sign?
    They both apply to the the same junction...

    What I mean is, he gets a green light and then approaches a junction with a yield sign. Surely then it is the yield instruction that the cam car should be following.


This discussion has been closed.
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