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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • #1982
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Actually, coming back to this nonsensical post.
    Lionel Hutz wrote: »
    Yes you can, that's the basis of our legal system. The Irish Water guys had legal authority to be where they were, the protesters don't. It's not a difficult concept.

    The 'protesters' in that case is the homeowner, as in the man who owns and actually lives in the house in the video.

    He now has 'no legal authority to be there', what kind of strange fictional world do you reside in?


  • #1983
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Stargate wrote: »
    Riot squad on the way last i heard

    " Large number of Public Order Units cops lining up in Tallaght. "

    We should start a group.
    'Save the moan'


  • #1984
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Tinkersbell wrote: »
    You're right there.
    This is a tax you pay from your income that's already been taxed.

    Would that be the same as an electricity tax or a gas tax?


  • #1985
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    It may not be a great amount in the grand scheme of things, but nothing peculiar about its ringfencing at all. It is completely sensible to centralize and move away from the disastrous water management to date. I completely agree with water charging

    The only question IMO is over the nature of the body to manage it

    You're off your head if you think the money is really all gonna be invested in the water infrastructure.


  • #1986
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    tayto lover wrote: »
    The exact offence being committed by the IW workers on the householder.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Were the IW workers not wilfully obstructing the householder from closing his gates?
    Try harder.

    I'll try and put it as simple as possible for you. Wilful obstruction is not committed if you have a lawful reason for being there. It specifically states this in the legislation. The Irish Workers had a lawful right to install the meters. The protesters do not have a lawful reason to trap someone in their car. Which part of that is not clear to you?


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  • #1987
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Would that be the same as an electricity tax or a gas tax?

    No.
    I can live without electricity and I can live without gas.
    I will die without water.


  • #1988
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,076 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I think she should get out of the car and speak to her constituents. Lovey peacful people.

    It was a very good protest.
    Certainly got the message home and there was no violence.
    Joan knows what it's all about now for sure.


  • #1989
    In Lonesome Dove
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 479 ✭✭In Lonesome Dove


    What's the details regarding signing up? Do you need a water pack? Or can you do it online? I may do a u turn and sign up but only at the very last minute so if it can be done online all the more better. I think IW will be here to stay and it will be silly not to apply for the allowances even though signing up is going to make me puke.


  • #1990
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Tinkersbell wrote: »
    No.
    I can live without electricity and I can live without gas.
    I will die without water.

    Plenty of water round here since Thursday.


  • #1991
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    tayto lover wrote: »
    It was a very good protest.
    Certainly got the message home and there was no violence.
    Joan knows what it's all about now for sure.

    The riot squad are moving in.
    Now there'll be violence.


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  • #1992
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Tinkersbell wrote: »
    No.
    I can live without electricity and I can live without gas.
    I will die without water.

    :pac::pac::pac:


  • #1993
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Plenty of water round here since Thursday.

    Yea....:rolleyes:


  • #1994
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    twowheelsgood wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:

    :confused::confused::confused:
    See...


  • #1995
    AboutaWeekAgo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭AboutaWeekAgo


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    In Lonesome Dove wrote: »
    What's the details regarding signing up? Do you need a water pack? Or can you do it online? I may do a u turn and sign up but only at the very last minute so if it can be done online all the more better. I think IW will be here to stay and it will be silly not to apply for the allowances even though signing up is going to make me puke.

    That's the kind of thinking that IW is hoping everyone has, the classic:

    "Ah sure it's here now we might as well go along with it and hope for the best"


  • #1996
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    In Lonesome Dove wrote: »
    What's the details regarding signing up? Do you need a water pack? Or can you do it online? I may do a u turn and sign up but only at the very last minute so if it can be done online all the more better. I think IW will be here to stay and it will be silly not to apply for the allowances even though signing up is going to make me puke.

    You need a pin to register online and the pin is sent with the information pack.

    You have to be able to sign up at any time though. If you leave home for the first time next year and start renting, you register and get your allowances, right?


  • #1997
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,076 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I'll try and put it as simple as possible for you. Wilful obstruction is not committed if you have a lawful reason for being there. It specifically states this in the legislation. The Irish Workers had a lawful right to install the meters. The protesters do not have a lawful reason to trap someone in their car. Which part of that is not clear to you?

    If the law backs up trespass, obstruction and assault, just because it is used on the side of the Govt, then it is clearly an ass and is being used not to govern the people but to oppress them and deserves to be broken.

    As someone who is a peaceful man I would be obliged to take the message of Martin Luther King -

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."


  • #1998
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    The problem here is that it should have been done years and years ago. Bit because of the shortsightedness of previous governments, there is no longer enough capacity in the population to raise enough to finance the changes to the water management that need to be made. Just because it is supplemented from elsewhere, it does not mean that money raised through the water charges are not ringfenced to pay for water and waste services

    And this is not a regressive tax. A regressive tax would be piling on more onto income tax, the PAYE worker again subsidizing others. It is right that all pay for water, with appropriate provision for the very worst off.

    So....I support water charging 100%. Does not mean I agree with the way that IW has been structured. But going back to the way it was is just not an option

    My point remains.

    How can anyone have faith in a Govt that have a proven history of lying through their teeth about what charges will be, and where they will Go?

    Incidentally, they siphoned off those "100% ring fenced for local services" , lpt funds, to set up Irish Water (lie number two)

    Lie number one, was that they weren't in favour of introducing the lpt to begin with.

    So pardon me for being cynical about their true intentions, especially with a man who has a history of corruption from a FG minister having a fat sausage shaped finger firmly in the pie.

    Irish Water will be the rock FG perishes on.


  • #1999
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »
    That's the kind of thinking that IW is hoping everyone has, the classic:

    "Ah sure it's here now we might as well go along with it and hope for the best"

    It's very clever. If they know he exists then he will get a bill. It will be a smaller bill if he registers. He can then ignore the bill. But at least when it comes time to pay eventually his arrears won't be so much.


  • #2000
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I'll try and put it as simple as possible for you. Wilful obstruction is not committed if you have a lawful reason for being there. It specifically states this in the legislation. The Irish Workers had a lawful right to install the meters. The protesters do not have a lawful reason to trap someone in their car. Which part of that is not clear to you?

    But they didn't have lawful reason for being on his property. They don't have the same authority as the ESB. The meters could have easily been installed without putting barriers onto his property. He was attempting to push the barriers out and then the staff came onto his property.


  • #2001
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Banjo String wrote: »
    My point remains.

    How can anyone have faith in a Govt that have a proven history of lying through their teeth about what charges will be, and where they will Go?

    Incidentally, they siphoned off those "100% ring fenced for local services" , lpt funds, to set up Irish Water (lie number two)

    Lie number one, was that they weren't in favour of introducing the lpt to begin with.

    So pardon me for being cynical about their true intentions, especially with a man who has a history of corruption from a FG minister having a fat sausage shaped finger firmly in the pie.

    Irish Water will be the rock FG perishes on.

    So you keep saying. I for one will not base how I vote on a charge which will cost me a very small fraction of the amount I have lost in wages over the last 7 years. If some people want to vote only on the water issue then they will be liable to overlook other much more substantial matters from the economic standpoint.

    IMO workers would be mad to vote to abolish water charges while thousands of mortgage free retired couples can look forward to 30 years with €460 plus a week coming in from the state and all the household benefits and medical cards which go along with it. They will make no contribution for water if it goes back to the old way but the ever dwindling proportion of workers will have to pay for them.


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  • #2002
    In Lonesome Dove
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 479 ✭✭In Lonesome Dove


    AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »
    That's the kind of thinking that IW is hoping everyone has, the classic:

    "Ah sure it's here now we might as well go along with it and hope for the best"

    Very true too. :(


  • #2003
    In Lonesome Dove
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 479 ✭✭In Lonesome Dove


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    You need a pin to register online and the pin is sent with the information pack.

    You have to be able to sign up at any time though. If you leave home for the first time next year and start renting, you register and get your allowances, right?

    Thanks for this. :( I don't feel like phoning and asking for a water pack. :(


  • #2004
    In Lonesome Dove
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 479 ✭✭In Lonesome Dove


    I just watched the video online from today. Peaceful protest surrounding Joan's car. It's brilliant stuff. Well done to all there. I hope to see more of it.


  • #2005
    teddy_303
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭teddy_303


    for me, the principle of water charges is that those who can't pay, will be cut off or imprisoned. water is only second to air in respect of essential basic elements to life. if you deliberately cut off someones air supply, you will be charged with murder or attemped murder, and rightly so. cutting off anyones water supply is only a slowed down version of that. why would anyone want to give a prover corpo facist corrupt government that level of power of coersion over the general population, i cannot understand, given what we know already...its stupid beyond belief that anyone could be in favour of this level of tyranical statism.

    are we to believe that we have turkeys voting for x mas on thread here? of vultures in disguise?


  • #2006
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    teddy_303 wrote: »
    for me, the principle of water charges is that those who can't pay, will be cut off or imprisoned. water is only second to air in respect of essential basic elements to life. if you deliberately cut off someones air supply, you will be charged with murder or attemped murder, and rightly so. cutting off anyones water supply is only a slowed down version of that. why would anyone want to give a prover corpo facist corrupt government that level of power of coersion over the general population, i cannot understand, given what we know already...its stupid beyond belief that anyone could be in favour of this level of tyranical statism.

    are we to believe that we have turkeys voting for x mas on thread here? of vultures in disguise?

    The air tax is coming. I read it here.


  • #2007
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The air tax is coming. I read it here.

    That's a social charge.


  • #2008
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Have to say i am amazed at the amount of women at most of the protests .
    I think it shows and highlights the effect all this has had on " families " .

    Serious stupidity going on with Joan and Enda .

    How uniformed can she be not to know how angry people are?
    Shows the utter arrogance and blinkered view this Government have toward the people who are screaming at them " enough ".


  • #2009
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,634 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Tinkersbell wrote: »
    That's a social charge.

    No, it's a tax. They can't easily meter it or give a limited allowance to people for free. Conversely charging people for water usage is a charge not a tax.


  • #2010
    twowheelsgood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭twowheelsgood


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Two, very staunch supporters of Irish Water, and the current Govt quote me....
    Good lad Banjo. If you answer a point you answer it. If you can't you cry shill. :p


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  • #2011
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    No, it's a tax. They can't easily meter it or give a limited allowance to people for free. Conversely charging people for water usage is a charge not a tax.

    Yea,:rolleyes:
    In your head it is....


This discussion has been closed.
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