ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

fullstop · 15-11-2014 12:05AM

user2011 wrote: »

Too much double speak for me..

So you don't but you'd have a bet. So what I said could of equally of happened but you disagreed with me straight off the bat :cool:

Well if he came across as any sort of level-headed, reasonable individual, you might think he'd have done it, but let's face it...he seems like a wound up lunatic with a short fuse

fullstop · 15-11-2014 12:06AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Any proof that it's the same guy?

And where did he assault them first? He was trying to close the gate of his property, which he has every fcuking right to do. Not his fault that the goons wouldn't move to allow him to do so without impediment.

Didn't say it was the same guy, watch the 2 videos and make up your own mind. You see the bit where he charges at them and tries to push them out on the road? That bit. At least his son looks like he has some semblance of sense, somehow, so there's hope for the future yet

My name is URL · 15-11-2014 12:13AM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

fullstop wrote: »

Didn't say it was the same guy, watch the 2 videos and make up your own mind. You see the bit where he charges at them and tries to push them out on the road? That bit. At least his son looks like he has some semblance of sense, somehow, so there's hope for the future yet

The video starts with him trying to close the gate, the IW guys were pushing back against it not allowing him to do so. Then one of them deliberately aimed the hose at his groin and let fly. He reacted to that.

I said earlier that neither side comes out of it looking good, but it appears to me that spraying him in the balls with a high powered jet of water is what escalated things.

user2011 · 15-11-2014 12:14AM

fullstop wrote: »

Well if he came across as any sort of level-headed, reasonable individual, you might think he'd have done it, but let's face it...he seems like a wound up lunatic with a short fuse

What has gotten him too the wound up state when the video started rolling?

Him asking them to remove themselves and their barriers from his property and them refusing which leads too what got shown on video. Logic.

pconn062 · 15-11-2014 12:19AM

steamengine wrote: »

This video shows the man being hosed in the groin area with a high pressure washer, so how is he meant to react ? By perhaps saying "Could you please be more careful ".

That this is carried out by what appears to be company employees makes it all the more reprehensible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCmaJkhOQw

Jesus, that is mental. I actually don't know who is more insane in that video. I must admit the whole IW thing has gone over my head a little maybe because (selfishly I admit) it doesn't affect me as we have a private well. I didn't realise things had gotten so out of hand. Effectively we have employees of a utility company and consumers fighting street battles in housing estates!! :eek:

Grandpa Hassan · 15-11-2014 12:23AM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

masculinist wrote: »

It is assault. And trespass. There is no grey area. That is what it is. I feel for that homeowner having hired thugs intrude upon the sanctity of his private home. They have no respect. They should constantly be apologizing for what they were doing. Instead they were threatening and aggressive.

Can you actually be any more melodramatic?

hynesie08 · 15-11-2014 12:23AM

user2011 wrote: »

What has gotten him too the wound up state when the video started rolling?

Him asking them to remove themselves and their barriers from his property and them refusing which leads too what got shown on video. Logic.

But they didn't start on his property! They were working outside (with a plastic barrier against but not inside his gate) he runs out and begins pushing them. Any aggression was started by him.

fullstop · 15-11-2014 12:25AM

My name is URL wrote: »

The video starts with him trying to close the gate, the IW guys were pushing back against it not allowing him to do so. Then one of them deliberately aimed the hose at his groin and let fly. He reacted to that.

I said earlier that neither side comes out of it looking good, but it appears to me that spraying him in the balls with a high powered jet of water is what escalated things.

Are we watching the same video here!? The video starts with him trying to dismantle the barrier and then when the worker tries to retrieve it, the neighbour screaming "hiiiiii you're on private peoperty ye cnut ye" or something along those lines

fullstop · 15-11-2014 12:26AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

But they didn't start on his property! They were working outside (with a plastic barrier against but not inside his gate) he runs out and begins pushing them. Any aggression was started by him.

Don't let facts get in the way of a mob mentality. Rabble etc

My name is URL · 15-11-2014 12:33AM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

fullstop wrote: »

Are we watching the same video here!? The video starts with him trying to dismantle the barrier and then when the worker tries to retrieve it, the neighbour screaming "hiiiiii you're on private peoperty ye cnut ye" or something along those lines

I'm going by the video quoted by pconn062 above. That's apparently the first in the sequence of the three posted.

66ad · 15-11-2014 12:33AM

fullstop wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way of a mob mentality. Rabble etc

Your with the rabble etc, would you not retaliate if someone hosed you in the genitals with a high powered hose?

user2011 · 15-11-2014 12:38AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

But they didn't start on his property! They were working outside (with a plastic barrier against but not inside his gate) he runs out and begins pushing them. Any aggression was started by him.

Ah grand so, the anti water meter crowd they don't say anything they just attack.

The barriers and the IW lads are stopping him from closing over his gates to his property. Like I said with my first post about the video why didn't someone on IW lads side think, look let him close the gates we'll use that as the barrier..

15-11-2014 12:50AM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Where did the fella getting in the ambulance come from????

I really feel for both sides in that video. Those workers are just trying to make a living. Few years ago, most were on the dole or getting a few weeks work here and there. Then, all the talk was about meter installations and they spent a fortune doing either a 1 day (for qualified plumber) or 3 day course. All the abuse is laid onto them and what most people don't realise is that they are getting abuse from the b0llox of a boss too about getting so many done each day and wtf are they at.

We all have pressure points and today the Coffey lads reached theirs. I'm not condoning their actions but I understand how it could come to this.

Government, Irish Water, Directors of Siteserv & Coffey and whoever else has an installation contract - Get your ****ing act together and sort out this mess!

hynesie08 · 15-11-2014 12:51AM

user2011 wrote: »

Ah grand so, the anti water meter crowd they don't say anything they just attack.

The barriers and the IW lads are stopping him from closing over his gates to his property. Like I said with my first post about the video why didn't someone on IW lads side think, look let him close the gates we'll use that as the barrier..

The Gates were closed!! There are four videos on that Facebook page.

In the first one the gates are closed and the homeowner comes out and starts pushing the iw workers.

In the second he opens the gate and the iw barriers collapse inside his gate and he immediately attacks an iw worker.

The third is him pushing and shoving the workers while destroying their workplace.

The fourth is them back outside amd he reopens the gate and throws away the plastic barriers that are on the road.

Honestly, I'm far from pro iw, but the chap in thos video acted like a complete scumbag. And for all the people spouting reasonable force, i think the iw workers had at least 3/4 scenarios where they should have responded in kind, but didn't.

masculinist · 15-11-2014 12:53AM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Can you actually be any more melodramatic?

Yes since my melodrama rating is zero. But I consider that there is already enough melodrama from contributors like you

user2011 · 15-11-2014 01:19AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

The Gates were closed!! There are four videos on that Facebook page.

In the first one the gates are closed and the homeowner comes out and starts pushing the iw workers.

In the second he opens the gate and the iw barriers collapse inside his gate and he immediately attacks an iw worker.

The third is him pushing and shoving the workers while destroying their workplace.

The fourth is them back outside amd he reopens the gate and throws away the plastic barriers that are on the road.

Honestly, I'm far from pro iw, but the chap in thos video acted like a complete scumbag. And for all the people spouting reasonable force, i think the iw workers had at least 3/4 scenarios where they should have responded in kind, but didn't.

I've watched them all, the 5 min long vid which is the "start", at the start of it the man and young fella are pushing to close the gates over fully (the gates being closed fully is a minor inconvenience to the workers at best) but are getting pushed back. IMO the man hasn't just gone out started to totally give them **** I think it's reasonable to suggest that the IW lads were asked to move their stuff so the gates could be closed and it escalated to what was good to capture on video..

But some on here think the anti meter crowd are just action (attacking the IW lads) and no talk. I call it that bs and it's just looking to paint a lot of people in a bad light when they come from all walks of life it isn't just the scroungers that have grievance with IW charge.

I'm trying paint a picture of what may have went on before the video recording started but nope I'm not allowed to do that it seems. He is scum rabble rabble.. :rolleyes:

Going Forward · 15-11-2014 01:25AM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

And all of this, and the resulting division, paranoia, and distrust it's causing, to raise barely E300million in taxes for an economy that's generating tens of BILLIONS in tax receipts.

Good strategy from Fine Fail.

It's certainly bringing communities together.

dollybird2 · 15-11-2014 01:29AM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

If people want to fight water charges then its the government they need to challenge, not lads doing a days work. Let them install the meters, and afterwards do whatever you want to do, tamper with it, refuse to register, etc.

Some of the videos really make me feel sorry for meter installers and seem as if the anger that ireland is experiencing at the moment is being channelled towards guys working. Save it for the protests and for inspiring your local rep to speak out. Use effective channels.

Smidge · 15-11-2014 01:45AM

listermint wrote: »

Ah here you go mary. What was it you were saying ?

This is the full footage. illegally on the mans property FULLY.

Apologies listermint for quoting your post here but its the video I wanted to show.

Firstly, I have watched this video.
Secondly, the IW guys are CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY trespassing on this mans property(anyone with a set of working eyeballs can see they are within his boundary along with their barriers)

I would like to know, how many people have ever tried to go through a set of gates on a persons home private property in say D4 or Howth without the owners permission????
And then intimidate the owner and use physical force(the pressure washer) to assault them when the are asked to leave(and anyone with working ears can hear the repeated requests to "get off my property..and this is private property"). And it makes NO difference that they are IW workers in the eyes of the law, they are trespassing under the law.
Anyone???
Didn't think so because try that kind of thing there and oh boy would you be in trouble.

I am sickened to my stomach by the people posting here and elsewhere about "those poor men doing a days work"
Do your days work, by all means.
But OBEY the fukcing law. These "workers" really crossed the line in this video.
How many of the Yes men for IW would allow an unauthorised person to trespass on there property. An unauthorised person means ANYONE who YOU as the PROPERTY OWNER does not want on their property for whatever reason. It is YOUR property, your right under law.
Or have we been so beaten down to a subjugated pulp by this and recent governments that we have forgotten we have a single right left?
Shame on anyone who does not see the wrong in this clip.
And someday, when you need the law to protect YOUR rights, it may bite you in the ass.

Oh and for those looking for links. legal reference etc....have at it.

18.—(1) The use of force by a person for any of the following purposes, if only such as is reasonable in the circumstances as he or she believes them to be, does not constitute an offence—

(a) to protect himself or herself or a member of the family of that person or another from injury, assault or detention caused by a criminal act; or

(b) to protect himself or herself or (with the authority of that other) another from trespass to the person; or

(c) to protect his or her property from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act or from trespass or infringement; or

(d) to protect property belonging to another from appropriation, destruction or damage caused by a criminal act or (with the authority of that other) from trespass or infringement; or

(e) to prevent crime or a breach of the peace.

(2) “use of force” in subsection (1) is defined and extended by section 20 .

(3) For the purposes of this section an act is ‘criminal’ notwithstanding that the person doing the act—

(a) if charged with an offence in respect of it, would be acquitted on the ground that—

(i) he or she acted under duress,

(ii) his or her act was involuntary,

(iii) he or she was in a state of intoxication, or

(iv) he or she was insane so as not to be responsible according to law for the act,

or

(b) was a person to whom section 52 (1) of the Children Act 2001 applied.

(4) The references in subsection (1) to protecting a person and property from anything include protecting the person or property from its continuing; and the reference to preventing crime or a breach of the peace shall be similarly construed.

(5) For the purposes of this section the question whether the act against which force is used is of a kind mentioned in any of the paragraphs (a) to (e) of subsection (1) shall be determined according to the circumstances as the person using the force believes them to be.

(6) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a person who believes circumstances to exist which would justify or excuse the use of force under that subsection has no defence if he or she knows that the force is used against a member of the Garda Síochána acting in the course of the member's duty or a person so assisting such member, unless he or she believes the force to be immediately necessary to prevent harm to himself or herself or another.

(7) The defence provided by this section does not apply to a person who causes conduct or a state of affairs with a view to using force to resist or terminate it:

But the defence may apply although the occasion for the use of force arises only because the person does something he or she may lawfully do, knowing that such an occasion will arise.

(8) Property shall be treated for the purposes of subsection (1) (c) and (d) as belonging to any person—

(a) having the custody or control of it;

(b) having in it any proprietary right or interest (not being an equitable interest arising only from an agreement to transfer or grant an interest); or

(c) having a charge on it;

and where property is subject to a trust, the persons to whom it belongs shall be treated as including any person having a right to enforce the trust.

Property of a corporation sole shall be treated for the purposes of the aforesaid provisions as belonging to the corporation notwithstanding a vacancy in the corporation.

(9) In subsection (3) ‘intoxication’ means being under the intoxicating influence of any alcoholic drink, drug, solvent or any other substance or combination of substances.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0018.html#sec18

Greenmachine · 15-11-2014 02:12AM

Don't know what to make of the video to be honest. No comes out of it looking good. The Irish Water lads, enroaching on his property, and 2 of them come close to a physical altercation with the man. I can only go on what I see in the videos. The guy was noticeably pissed, from the video I can't tell if he just wanted a fight with IW, or if them enroaching his entrance set him off. At the end of the day, they are doing a job, but I think the situation could have been handled better.

moxin · 15-11-2014 02:14AM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

pconn062 wrote: »

Jesus, that is mental. I actually don't know who is more insane in that video. I must admit the whole IW thing has gone over my head a little maybe because (selfishly I admit) it doesn't affect me as we have a private well. I didn't realise things had gotten so out of hand. Effectively we have employees of a utility company and consumers fighting street battles in housing estates!! :eek:

And it will get worse. Largely IW have metered estates which have been upper and middle class orientated where the householders have been happy to pay twice for water. What we have seen in Donaghmede(D13 in general) with GMC is just the start, you will see many more stories of the above happening.

Question is how far will Enda continue with his crusade against the less fortunate in our society so he can waste money in order he can turn IW off the state balance sheet for the deficit under the EU rules? Its disgraceful.

Smidge · 15-11-2014 02:16AM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Don't know what to make of the video to be honest. No comes out of it looking good. The Irish Water lads, enroaching on his property, and 2 of them come close to a physical altercation with the man. I can only go on what I see in the videos. The guy was noticeably pissed, from the video I can't tell if he just wanted a fight with IW, or if them enroaching his entrance set him off. At the end of the day, they are doing a job, but I think the situation could have been handled better.

Maybe blasting him in his genitals, and therefore assaulting him on his own property annoyed him?
Maybe the refusal to leave private property annoyed him?
Maybe denying the leave of his own property through his own entrance annoyed him?
Do your job but dont break the law.
Which they clearly have.

Kevin McCloud · 15-11-2014 02:47AM

They should have stopped work, let the man close his gates. That was wreckless carry on.

masculinist · 15-11-2014 02:51AM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

They should have stopped work, let the man close his gates. That was wreckless carry on.

It looks like Irish water will need armed guards for all those unguarded meters anyway. I wouldnt be surprised if some YouTuber sees that driveway and decides to sledge hammer the meter once the Irish Water thugs leave. The anger is that much. Critics act like this one householder is an isolated incident. This is happening all over the country. The sooner we hold a general election the better. Irish Water will never make any money thanks to Enda Kenny

_Kaiser_ · 15-11-2014 09:39AM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

So according to the Irish Times this morning, they're going all out to try and put an end to this, but still get the charges in

The revised plan will see the discarding of multiple tiers of charges based on the number of adults in a household. It will also replace three separate water allowances with a single universal allowance.

The final details of the two new rates have yet to be formally approved. However it is expected they will result in households with five adults or more paying the same as a family with two adults, some €280 per annum.

When the universal allowance is taken into account, it will mean the annual bill for households with two children will be substantially less than €200, and single households will pay less than €100 per annum

Given the short-sighted nature of many people, I fear it might be enough to sway those who agree in principle with the whole idea. Of course the rest of us know that these charges won't stay that low for long - and it does nothing to address the whole cronyism involved with IW or the incompetence that has been their hallmark to date.

twowheelsgood · 15-11-2014 09:56AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Of course the rest of us know that these charges won't stay that low for long -

Surely any substantial increase in charges will likely come about by the state reducing the subsidies?

sjb25 · 15-11-2014 10:05AM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

They should have stopped work, let the man close his gates. That was wreckless carry on.

I'd be with you in this case the workers inflamed it by reacting to your man they should have let him close his gates and stopped and called the Garda to sort it all out not take it upon themselves but the man and his mate with the camera are not blameless he assaulted most of the workers there in some way an orange barrier was flung at them aswell(them things are heavy) also the car reversing out was told to "reverse over the cnunts" somebody is going to be seriously hurt in all this soon it's all getting out of hand the hole thing should just be stopped now till someting is done one way or the other

Streetwalker · 15-11-2014 10:24AM

I agree with metered water charges

Greenmachine wrote: »

Don't know what to make of the video to be honest. No comes out of it looking good. The Irish Water lads, enroaching on his property, and 2 of them come close to a physical altercation with the man. I can only go on what I see in the videos. The guy was noticeably pissed, from the video I can't tell if he just wanted a fight with IW, or if them enroaching his entrance set him off. At the end of the day, they are doing a job, but I think the situation could have been handled better.

The "they are just doing a job" line doesn't wash with me.

Streetwalker · 15-11-2014 10:26AM

I agree with metered water charges

sjb25 wrote: »

I'd be with you in this case the workers inflamed it by reacting to your man they should have let him close his gates and stopped and called the Garda to sort it all out not take it upon themselves but the man and his mate with the camera are not blameless he assaulted most of the workers there in some way an orange barrier was flung at them aswell(them things are heavy) also the car reversing out was told to "reverse over the cnunts" somebody is going to be seriously hurt in all this soon it's all getting out of hand the hole thing should just be stopped now till someting is done one way or the other

IW has hand picked a lot of areas to install the meters thus far. They have avoided a lot of the rougher parts of the country and Dublin in particular. It will get a lot worse when/if they attempt to install meters in these areas.

dxhound2005 · 15-11-2014 10:32AM

masculinist wrote: »

It looks like Irish water will need armed guards for all those unguarded meters anyway. I wouldnt be surprised if some YouTuber sees that driveway and decides to sledge hammer the meter once the Irish Water thugs leave. The anger is that much. Critics act like this one householder is an isolated incident. This is happening all over the country. The sooner we hold a general election the better. Irish Water will never make any money thanks to Enda Kenny

Is it really happening all over the country? It is certainly not happening all over Dundalk. Dozens of streets and estates have had meters installed with no interference or even any protestor presence. Very early on there were some protests organised by local paramilitaries but after a few of the ringleaders were arrested it petered out. One video of an incident at one house does not reflect what is happening in general.

http://talkofthetown.ie/2014/10/02/four-arrested-in-dundalk-following-water-meter-protest/

I never heard of any trouble either in Drogheda, Monaghan or Cavan for instance but I don't even know if meters are being installed in those towns. I asked before if people could post information about what was happening on the ground in their local areas but nobody responded. Apart from the videos out of Dublin and the one from Clonmel I get the impression that the hundreds of thousands of meters which have been installed was done with no protestor presence.

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Comments

ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP