ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 03:48PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Tony EH wrote: »

I've never had anything to with SF, nor do I really intend to either, but I have to ask, why is it such a "scary" prospect?

Their proposals for taxes would send the wealthy running from these shores, the top 1% currently pay 21% of the tax at an effective rate of around 51%. Sinn Feins proposals would up the effective tax rate of anyone in this bracket to 71%.

Also we all know their one single minded goal if they got into power as the main party would be to reunify the country and as much as this would be a great thing to have happen neither country is yet ready for it. Also add onto the social issues and costs that would appear with it the north runs on a huge deficit and reunifying the country would just put us back into a death spiral as far as the whole deficit goes.

tayto lover · 13-11-2014 03:54PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Their proposals for taxes would send the wealthy running from these shores, the top 1% currently pay 21% of the tax at an effective rate of around 51%. Sinn Feins proposals would up the effective tax rate of anyone in this bracket to 71%.

Also we all know their one single minded goal if they got into power as the main party would be to reunify the country and as much as this would be a great thing to have happen neither country is yet ready for it. Also add onto the social issues and costs that would appear with it the north runs on a huge deficit and reunifying the country would just put us back into a death spiral as far as the whole deficit goes.

I'd say the British would pay us some huge amount to take it off their hands and the U.S. would support us big-time.
We would certainly have to cut SW payments.

Red Pepper · 13-11-2014 03:55PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

I talked to a former colleague who works as a government advisor.
He says they have produced a "good press backlog" to try and counter the bad press from IW. He says the plan is now to stick as much mud to SF as possible now and to reload it along with other minor stories after December 10th. They are actually happy enough with that date because being so close to Christmas break, it will get diluted.

I am no fan of SF or Adams and I have made that clear before but I would suggest that letting the government off the hook for the undoubted past failings of SF is weak minded.

tayto lover · 13-11-2014 03:57PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I talked to a former colleague who works as a government advisor.
He says they have produced a "good press backlog" to try and counter the bad press from IW. He says the plan is now to stick as much mud to SF as possible now and to reload it along with other minor stories after December 10th. They are actually happy enough with that date because being so close to Christmas break, it will get diluted.

I am no fan of SF or Adams and I have made that clear before but I would suggest that letting the government off the hook for the undoubted past failings of SF is weak minded.

This is not going away after Dec 10th either.
Nobody getting off the hook.

Cantona's Collars · 13-11-2014 04:14PM

I agree with metered water charges

tayto lover wrote: »

This is not going away after Dec 10th either.
Nobody getting off the hook.

Wait 'til people who are financially tapped out from Christmas get their bills.Even more of those who are on the fence will jump to the NO IW side.

end of the road · 13-11-2014 04:19PM

Barely There wrote: »

Maybe they'd stop if Gerry and friends fessed up to where she's buried?

no they wouldn't. SF can't "fess up" to something they don't know the answer to.

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 04:19PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

zerks wrote: »

Wait 'til people who are financially tapped out from Christmas get their bills.Even more of those who are on the fence will jump to the NO IW side.

I though the majority of people wouldn't mind paying for water?

The idea that a bill arriving will change peoples minds implies its not IW they are angry about and its more about paying for water that they don't wanna do.

end of the road · 13-11-2014 04:24PM

Barely There wrote: »

Love democracy, that's why its incumbent on all us true Republicans (the non-murdering kind) to keep the Shinners away from the levers of power of our state

Fairly common gender-neutral phrase - would have thought you'd know that.

your not a republican. SF are not murderers. they are a legitimate political party

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 04:25PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

end of the road wrote: »

your not a republican. SF are not murderers. they are a legitimate political party

No point in replying to the posts of someone who's not allowed post in the thread anymore

end of the road · 13-11-2014 04:29PM

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Hard to know exactly why you're still here, mk2.
You don't contribute much apart from the personal insults, like the ones Banjo listed earlier.

insulting people is all he has got.

Streetwalker · 13-11-2014 04:32PM

I agree with metered water charges

VinLieger wrote: »

Their proposals for taxes would send the wealthy running from these shores, the top 1% currently pay 21% of the tax at an effective rate of around 51%. Sinn Feins proposals would up the effective tax rate of anyone in this bracket to 71%.

Also we all know their one single minded goal if they got into power as the main party would be to reunify the country and as much as this would be a great thing to have happen neither country is yet ready for it. Also add onto the social issues and costs that would appear with it the north runs on a huge deficit and reunifying the country would just put us back into a death spiral as far as the whole deficit goes.

So it's okay if the poor and coping classes have to leave these shores but if the wealthy have to leave it's a disaster?

Good riddance to them then.

end of the road · 13-11-2014 04:35PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Their proposals for taxes would send the wealthy running from these shores, the top 1% currently pay 21% of the tax at an effective rate of around 51%. Sinn Feins proposals would up the effective tax rate of anyone in this bracket to 71%.

Also we all know their one single minded goal if they got into power as the main party would be to reunify the country and as much as this would be a great thing to have happen neither country is yet ready for it. Also add onto the social issues and costs that would appear with it the north runs on a huge deficit and reunifying the country would just put us back into a death spiral as far as the whole deficit goes.

so be it. it would be worth all of it for ireland to be one country again, ireland is ready for it

Streetwalker · 13-11-2014 04:36PM

I agree with metered water charges

VinLieger wrote: »

You really want the shinners in there? The may talk the talk but so did FG and FF before them and the reality is their economic policies ironically don't hold any water when put under scrutiny

I'm willing to give them the chance to prove me wrong, Everyone else has been a complete and utter failure.

Caliden · 13-11-2014 04:36PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Streetwalker wrote: »

So it's okay if the poor and coping classes have to leave these shores but if the wealthy have to leave it's a disaster?

Good riddance to them then.

Exhibit A: http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 04:37PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Streetwalker wrote: »

So it's okay if the poor and coping classes have to leave these shores but if the wealthy have to leave it's a disaster?

Good riddance to them then.

And where will the 21% that they currently pay in taxes come from if they leave? This isnt a scaremonger question in case you try to paint it as such, you have just said the richest people in the country who pay a huge portion of income tax can leave cus you don't like that they earn that much money so where will the difference be made up if they do?

end of the road · 13-11-2014 04:38PM

VinLieger wrote: »

No point in replying to the posts of someone who's not allowed post in the thread anymore

i was a good bit behind so only catching up now

Streetwalker · 13-11-2014 04:39PM

I agree with metered water charges

Caliden wrote: »

Exhibit A: http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

Last line of that...

"When the bill came in there was no one to pay it"..

Bit like my household finances, I don't have the money to pay any more stealth taxes. Simple as.

Can't get blood from a stone.

Streetwalker · 13-11-2014 04:41PM

I agree with metered water charges

VinLieger wrote: »

And where will the 21% that they currently pay in taxes come from if they leave? This isnt a scaremonger question in case you try to paint it as such, you have just said the richest people in the country who pay a huge portion of income tax can leave cus you don't like that they earn that much money so where will the difference be made up if they do?

Like is said I don't care. Taxing the coping/working classes to their eyeballs has worked out well hasn't it :rolleyes:

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 04:41PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Streetwalker wrote: »

Last line of that...

"When the bill came in there was no one to pay it"..

Bit like my household finances, I don't have the money to pay any more stealth taxes. Simple as.

Can't get blood from a stone.

Doesnt make your statement of "good riddance" to the wealthy any less ridiculous and oblivious to how the tax system works

listermint · 13-11-2014 04:42PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

VinLieger wrote: »

And where will the 21% that they currently pay in taxes come from if they leave? This isnt a scaremonger question in case you try to paint it as such, you have just said the richest people in the country who pay a huge portion of income tax can leave cus you don't like that they earn that much money so where will the difference be made up if they do?

Yeah because thats the real policies and thats really going to happen....

lulz

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 04:44PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

listermint wrote: »

Yeah because thats the real policies and thats really going to happen....

lulz

If you think anyone will happily take their income being taxed at 71% you are dreaming and these people will have all the resources to move if needed as well. Im not saying it definitely would happen but simply taxing the rich is not a solution to any problem.

Also I was not the one who said good riddance we will make do. That kind of thinking will land us in more of a mess.

Stargate · 13-11-2014 05:23PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Tinkersbell wrote: »

We won't know until we try.
All other party's have failed the Irish people in the last 10 years.

As someone once said .

" You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try."

listermint · 13-11-2014 05:38PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

VinLieger wrote: »

If you think anyone will happily take their income being taxed at 71% you are dreaming and these people will have all the resources to move if needed as well. Im not saying it definitely would happen but simply taxing the rich is not a solution to any problem.

Also I was not the one who said good riddance we will make do. That kind of thinking will land us in more of a mess.

Yes because thats realistic and its going to happen. Stop running pipe dreams up the flag pole to get a reaction.

We are in a mess, a right mess. And Europe will bring us down with it. Do you read anything about the current situation across Europe ?

If not id suggest you might want to.

geeksauce · 13-11-2014 05:40PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to remain in it's current form

VinLieger wrote: »

If you think anyone will happily take their income being taxed at 71% you are dreaming and these people will have all the resources to move if needed as well. Im not saying it definitely would happen but simply taxing the rich is not a solution to any problem.

Also I was not the one who said good riddance we will make do. That kind of thinking will land us in more of a mess.

Can't imagine there being any adverse consequences for those left behind should the group with the largest share of disposable income decide to take their incomes elsewhere!!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 05:41PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

listermint wrote: »

Yes because thats realistic and its going to happen. Stop running pipe dreams up the flag pole to get a reaction.

We are in a mess, a right mess. And Europe will bring us down with it. Do you read anything about the current situation across Europe ?

If not id suggest you might want to.

Whats europe got to do with it? Theres many other countries in the world people can go to that arent in europe, and yes im very aware of the current situation across the eu.

Also that wasnt my pipe dream its Sinn Fein's proposed tax scheme for the 2014 budget so if you dont agree with it complain to them

listermint · 13-11-2014 05:58PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

VinLieger wrote: »

Whats europe got to do with it? Theres many other countries in the world people can go to that arent in europe, and yes im very aware of the current situation across the eu.

Also that wasnt my pipe dream its Sinn Fein's proposed tax scheme for the 2014 budget so if you dont agree with it complain to them

71% was not in their manifesto, I am unsure where you got that figure from. But its untrue.

Where did it come from ?

masculinist · 13-11-2014 06:08PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

What happened today in the Dail was a thundering disgrace. I dont' have any association with any political party but I want this government out and I want them out now. Allow water charges to be introduced at your peril . Once introduced they will increase beyond the price of inflation and watch the long list of scandals make headlines as the years rolls by - all of it without a shred of democratic accountability. Just look what happened to your Gas and electricity bills over the last few years. Once they have you by the balls they will continue to squeeze. Dont let them get that grip in the first place !

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 06:10PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

listermint wrote: »

71% was not in their manifesto, I am unsure where you got that figure from. But its untrue.

Where did it come from ?

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-73-per-cent-tax-1717283-Oct2014/

the top marginal rate of tax under Sinn Féin would, in the first year, be 48 per cent + 7 per cent Universal Social Charge + 4 per cent PRSI. That equals a 59 per cent marginal rate. In order to continue making the savings Sinn Féin claims it would have made over the past three years, it would have to add 7 per cent to the top rate in each subsequent year meaning that in year two the top marginal rate would be 66 per cent (48 per cent + an additional 7 per cent + 11 per cent PRSI and USC)
Then in year three, the top income tax rate of 55 per cent would have another 7 per cent added and another 11 per cent in USC and PRSI bringing you to the magic 73 per cent.

teddy_303 · 13-11-2014 06:32PM

for anyone interested: from the DDI web site:

Emergency Dáil Legislation On Collecting Water Bills Due This Friday 14th November 2014
Posted on November 13, 2014 by Admin D

dail sit inThe Troika are back next week and they want the water charges paid as they were a key condition of the bail;out. So in advance of this visit The two government parties have cooked up a piece of emergency legislation to be voted on tomorrow. The cat is out of the bag and because of this the Dáil is currently suspended

DUBLIN GROUPS WANTED OUTSIDE THE DAIL ASAP IN SUPPORT TODAY AND FRIDAY 14th November 2014

This is Not about DDI or Sinn Fein or any other party … It is about the LEGISLATION Period.

THE GOVERNMENT ARE BRINGING EMERGENCY LEGISLATION TO ENACT IRISH WATER BILLS TO BE DEDUCTED FROM YOUR WAGE PACKET AND SOCIAL WELFARE PAYMENTS

THE DAIL IS SUSPENDED FOR THE DAY … DUE TO MARY LOU McDONALD ASKING A QUESTION OF THE TANAISTE.

Tánaiste Joan Burton avoided answering two very important questions from the deputy leader:

1- Will you “give assurances to the dail that you will not allow for unpaid bill to be deducted from peoples wages, peoples pensions or peoples social welfare?

2- Will you “not allow for (revenue) ATTACHMENT ORDERS to be used by #IrishWater for unpaid bills?”

Mary Lou McDonald continued to say: “I know that house is sitting on Friday. I understand that there will be a vote on Friday. I wonder to myself, and there is some speculation that there might be some

EMERGENCY LEGISLATION presented on Friday perhaps to allow for these very things.

TANAISTE DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION … MARY LOU IS ON A DAIL SIT IN … REFUSING TO LEAVE DAIL CHAMBER UNTIL …. ?????

Right now people need to make their feelings known to ALL of their local TDs. Contact ALL of them and make sure they know the people want them to VOTE DOWN this emergency legislation. Contact especially the Fine Gael and Labour TDs and make sure enough of them cross the floor and vote with the opposition.

Tell them that any chance they have of ever being elected to any office in Ireland again depends upon it.

masculinist · 13-11-2014 06:51PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

teddy_303 wrote: »

Right now people need to make their feelings known to ALL of their local TDs. Contact ALL of them and make sure they know the people want them to VOTE DOWN this emergency legislation. Contact especially the Fine Gael and Labour TDs and make sure enough of them cross the floor and vote with the opposition.

Tell them that any chance they have of ever being elected to any office in Ireland again depends upon it.

As disgusting as it is to have to come into contact with those vermin. This is what needs to be done.

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP