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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,494 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    The injunction wasn't against peaceful protest, it was against intimidation against innocent workers.
    it was against protest by a company not based in this republic which should be bankrupted

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,102 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    papu wrote: »
    Absolutely Pathetic.

    I think it's a very appropriate and fitting place for a protest.
    The only pathetic thing about it was Joan and Enda.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Funny how RTE said it was a Water Protest then.
    Did you not read it and only look at the pictures?

    2 days ago you weren't trusting RTE for a news report - now you are?
    changing statements for the argument?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    I think it's a very appropriate and fitting place for a protest.
    The only pathetic thing about it was Joan and Enda.

    Banging on the doors and windows is childish behaviour and will not get them anywhere. Interrupting the launching of a commemoration to the 1916 Rising will also not gain them any favours. It's unpatriotic and scummy.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    it was against protest by a company not based in this republic which should be bankrupted

    ? The injunction was against protest by a company??


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,494 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    so now you know what they wanted??? Do you not think that many would have wanted us to get freedom in the 6 counties?

    In other threads i've seen you post "life's not fair" - well how about applying that to here, and people just have to pay the tax, or is it a case that you can only use that argument when your making the statement?
    people haven't got the money to pay another charge. yes i know what they would have wanted. the fact they faught in the first place suggests that what happened tonight is what they would have wanted

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Give it a few weeks, the protestors will be at each other's throats.
    Half of them want to sack thousands of public servants, the other half are hard-left, unionised, job-for-life boyos.

    None of them on this thread can actually agree what they'd do as an alternative.

    It's funny to watch.

    Today's ill advised protest will drive a further wedge between them

    Watch this space, sit back and enjoy the show......

    I know I will:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    papu wrote: »
    Banging on the doors and windows is childish behaviour and will not get them anywhere. Interrupting the launching of a commemoration to the 1916 Rising will also not gain them any favours. It's unpatriotic and scummy.

    But not unpatriotic and scummy to set the country's own police force on the people of the land in aid of a fella called Denis ?

    Joke time i think .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    But not unpatriotic and scummy to set the country's own police force on the people of the land in aid of a fella called Denis ?

    Joke time i think .

    The police were protecting the citizens of this country , allowing them to go about their appointed work.
    Problem?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,102 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    2 days ago you weren't trusting RTE for a news report - now you are?
    changing statements for the argument?

    I heard it on Newstalk before RTe broadcast it :pac:
    You sound sore.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    I agree with metered water charges
    Give it a few weeks, the protestors will be at each other's throats.
    Half of them want to sack thousands of public servants, the other half are hard-left, unionised, job-for-life boyos.

    None of them on this thread can actually agree what they'd do as an alternative.

    It's funny to watch.

    Today's ill advised protest will drive a further wedge between them

    Watch this space, sit back and enjoy the show......

    I know I will:D

    The only thing im enjoying is watching IW fall apart and bring the government down with them. Is so sweet. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,102 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    papu wrote: »
    Banging on the doors and windows is childish behaviour and will not get them anywhere. Interrupting the launching of a commemoration to the 1916 Rising will also not gain them any favours. It's unpatriotic and scummy.


    People just like you said the same in 1916.
    Shame on you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,358 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    papu wrote: »
    The police were protecting the citizens of this country , allowing them to go about their appointed work.
    Problem?

    The only pathetic and scummy thing is the swindling of tax payers money, the cover ups the nepotism the cronyism.

    Do you think the leaders of the rising would be peddling themselves unvouched expenses and awarding themselves the highest salaries of politicians in the western world.

    What's held in high regard in government corridors is everything those guys stood against.

    Don't sully their fight by forwarding the Enda agenda. Its so transparent we might as well call you glass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,102 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Give it a few weeks, the protestors will be at each other's throats.
    Half of them want to sack thousands of public servants, the other half are hard-left, unionised, job-for-life boyos.

    None of them on this thread can actually agree what they'd do as an alternative.

    It's funny to watch.

    Today's ill advised protest will drive a further wedge between them

    Watch this space, sit back and enjoy the show......

    I know I will:D

    I'm enjoying watching you squirm now :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    people haven't got the money to pay another charge. yes i know what they would have wanted. the fact they faught in the first place suggests that what happened tonight is what they would have wanted

    they fought for their freedom from the British rule, and yet you someone how think this equates to protesting about water charges????:confused::confused:

    regarding people not having the money to pay - i ask for you to provide a % earlier on in the night of those who cannot pay and those who do not want to pay. I would reckon that what you provide as a % will be different to what others on here, (who have similar ideas) will say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Give it a few weeks, the protestors will be at each other's throats.
    Half of them want to sack thousands of public servants, the other half are hard-left, unionised, job-for-life boyos.

    None of them on this thread can actually agree what they'd do as an alternative.

    It's funny to watch.

    Today's ill advised protest will drive a further wedge between them

    Watch this space, sit back and enjoy the show......

    I know I will:D


    " If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame."
    I take it you take some joy in peoples misery BT?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    The only thing im enjoying is watching IW protests fall apart. Is so sweet. :D
    FYP


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    papu wrote: »
    The police were protecting the citizens of this country , allowing them to go about their appointed work.
    Problem?

    Didn't see any at the meat factory protests.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    I agree with metered water charges
    It's a thing of beauty watching this government fall apart and the likes of the state broadcaster and dinnytalk attempt to deflect attention. The people have spoken, IW is finished.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    listermint wrote: »
    The only pathetic and scummy thing is the swindling of tax payers money, the cover ups the nepotism the cronyism.

    Do you think the leaders of the rising would be peddling themselves unvouched expenses and awarding themselves the highest salaries of politicians in the western world.

    What's held in high regard in government corridors is everything those guys stood against.

    Don't sully their fight by forwarding the Enda agenda. Its so transparent we might as well call you glass.

    So what about the potential cover ups in Sinn Fein - which is pretty much the alternative to FF/FG/Labour government -

    I'm sure you've heard about all them in the news today. what about the fact the Adams allowed his brother work with children even thought he was aware of what he had done in the past - how do you feel about this - are you happy with it - what else does he know and isn't letting on??

    You can hit out at the present government or past, but when you look at the alternative they have many unanswered questions.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    I'm enjoying watching you squirm now :pac:

    Try another funny Tayto.

    The last one had your lickspittle buddies falling over themselves to thank you

    Go on, I'm sure you can come up with something really hilarious this time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    papu wrote: »
    The police were protecting the citizens of this country , allowing them to go about their appointed work.
    Problem?

    Wrong !!

    Problem ? Yes it is a problem . The police are protecting IW interest nothing more , nothing less .


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Clarification time again, to coin a phrase, the signal to noise ratio is getting bad, and it's time to get back to IW, having almost left the country with the distractions.

    To clarify where I am at, I have no issue with water charges, but I have massive issues with IW as presently structured and set up, and putting a new method of charging back into the Local Authorities is not an option, my preference would be for a properly structured, resourced and managed IW, which means some serious changes to what's been put in place at present,

    The plan with IW, albeit very badly implemented at present, is that the cost of water (and waste water) will be paid via metering. That is NOT Water TAX, it is Water CHARGES, in that EVERY user pays according to their usage, or if they don't have a meter yet, they pay based on a usage that's been determined by reference to the usage patterns of other countries, who are years ahead of us in this area.

    I would prefer to see that system in use, for several reasons, the main one being that it is a fair way to put charges into place, if you use a lot of water, you pay for it, if you don't, the bill is lower. Exactly the same system as that used for electricity, gas, motor fuel, heating oil, and many other consumables.

    There needs to be a method to assist people that really are in financial problems, and can't pay, but that does not mean that every unemployed person and their family should be automatically excluded from charging, far from it, the intention is to make water charges fair and proportional and widely based. There are going to be some that genuinely can't pay, and they need to be helped. That is the hallmark of a genuine and caring society.

    Meter charging is accepted in just about every other developed country worldwide, and has been proven to be effective, both in terms of cost recovery, and encouraging conservation.

    Right now, as structured, IW is massively NOT fit for purpose. It has too many senior managers with dubious track records, and too many staff that they don't have work for, and it is completely wrong that they should be paid for by water users. I also have grave reservations about the bonus culture, the culture of the company, and their operational plan, there are a large number of issues that were not well managed by IW or the Government in the way that it was set up and structured.

    IW has to remain state owned, and in order to provide an acceptable level of certainty, we need some form of constitutional protection of IW that will not permit the sale of IW to the private sector without the specific permission of the electorate through referendum, and the only reason for insisting on this extreme protection is because we can't trust the weasel words of the Political Elite, they have demonstrated on many occasions that they can't be trusted.

    The other issues that have to be resolved are making sure that IW is completely transparent and open about the way that it spends the money it receives, and the regulator has to be given teeth to ensure that the regulation is not just a rubber stamp for increases.

    If correctly structured, resourced and managed, IW has the potential to deal with the outstanding issues of leaks and missing infrastructure without massive increases in costings, but only if it is correctly set up and managed, right now, it is anything but, and that's one reason why IW wants nearly double the rate that the local authorities have been charging for potable water and waste water.

    The other reason why we need IW is to get water out of the day to day influence of the political system, water has suffered badly for 25 years because of political interference, and the local authorities have been equally bad, because local politicians are more interested in visible vote winning schemes, and will prefer them to invisible infrastructure, which is why we're in the mess we are now. If IW is separate, and funded by its clients, rather than Government subventions, for the first time in 25 years, the water systems might actually start to improve.

    In theory, direct taxation should be reduced by the equivalent of water charges, as the Government will no longer be funding water, but we all know that with the deficit that Ireland has at present, that's not going to happen for some time, which is a problem to some, but the reality of the deficit is that it has to be reduced in order to meet our obligations under EU and Euro treaty agreements.

    The waters are about to be muddied by the Government, having made a shambles of the initial set up of IW, they are going to make it even worse, by messing with the funding, maybe worse, and that's going to do two things, the first is that it's going to reduce the IW income, and the second is that it's going to be yet another vote catching bribe, and neither are appropriate.

    What should be happening is that the former county managers should be invited to "retire" again, ideally permanently, and enjoy their platinum plated pensions, and the 2500 people that IW didn't want should be let go, now. A management that is capable of running the organisation is needed, and the senior managers are not acceptable to people like me for all sorts of reasons, the main one being their less than acceptable previous track record.

    IW need to publish a plan that will see meters fitted in the places that they are ignoring at present, so that there are fewer places that are not metered, and they need to be much more up front and visible with their plans for dealing with the leaks, and for dealing with the missing waste water treatment services in places like Clonmel, which has nothing at present.

    The Government (actually, the entire political system) needs to recognise that the days of the Golden Circle are over, and no longer acceptable, and that the excesses of the last 25 years have to be corrected. That's going to be incredibly painful, because the changes need to happen to just about every state organisation. The HSE and IW are the most glaring examples, and the local authorities are no longer fit for purpose, the semi state quango structure has to be reformed, as do many other areas, and if that happens, Ireland will have a system that will be worthy of the nation, and (more importantly right now) acceptable to the electorate.

    Our alternative is to do nothing, and wait for the next crisis, which on present showing won't be that long coming, and let the IMF make and implement all the hard decisions. That will be even more traumatic, and painful, but it might be the only way to actually achieve the very much needed result.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,102 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Try another funny Tayto.

    The last one had your lickspittle buddies falling over themselves to thank you

    Go on, I'm sure you can come up with something really hilarious this time.

    I'm too busy rolling on the floor laughing at you ha ha ha :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,358 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    they fought for their freedom from the British rule, and yet you someone how think this equates to protesting about water charges????:confused::confused:

    regarding people not having the money to pay - i ask for you to provide a % earlier on in the night of those who cannot pay and those who do not want to pay. I would reckon that what you provide as a % will be different to what others on here, (who have similar ideas) will say.

    They fought to free the country from exterior influence and power and the tirade of finance removal from this nation.



    Ring any bells?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,641 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/stock-market-recession-1772380-Nov2014/

    This was on the journal site yesterday. It's about a firm that preticted the crash that happened in 1929 which resulted in a depression. The same firm is predicting trouble ahead for the US in 2015 (which will have knock on effects for us, no doubt).

    I've been saying it for a few years now, with so many countries - the us, Iceland, the UK, some other European countries - Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, France - experiencing similar problems to us - bank problems, deficits, debts and large unemployment, I reckon this is a depression which governments aren't telling their nations about. The problem is very, very deep and is going back to the way money is made. To fix this they are just hammering the backs of people. Ordinary people and citizens of these countries that do not have the money to fix something so deep. The only people that have this money are the very top bankers. Like the federal union. The very top richest people in the world are bankers. The way money is made, it creates debt slavery and this is what's happening to many countries.

    Something or someone will absolutely break and snap at some stage. It probably won't happen yet for years come. Depressions only end in war.

    Australia is also at the start of a slowdown.

    Whenever the next recession/depression comes that will mean maybe 100,000 more unemployed. Which will reduce the income tax base and increase the Social Welfare spend. It will be good for whoever is trying to balance the books to have the property tax and whatever is coming in from water charges. And not have to fund bins and motor/road tax from general taxation. They are among the "double taxation" which people are paying now.

    Over and above that we are heading for a situation where there will be less and less workers to pay income tax as a proportion of the overall population. Life expectancy is rising rapidly and there will be increased calls on public spending for pensions and geriatric health care. Now is as good a time as any to take water funding out of general taxation to some extent and let the user pay something at least. The income tax take can only keep shrinking in proportion to the demands for spending.

    It's not too hard to predict recessions and depressions. From memory I think there have been 47 of them in the United States to date.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    listermint wrote: »
    The only pathetic and scummy thing is the swindling of tax payers money, the cover ups the nepotism the cronyism.

    Do you think the leaders of the rising would be peddling themselves unvouched expenses and awarding themselves the highest salaries of politicians in the western world.

    What's held in high regard in government corridors is everything those guys stood against.

    Don't sully their fight by forwarding the Enda agenda. Its so transparent we might as well call you glass.

    I've no allegiance to any political party , inferring otherwise is plain wrong. It annoys me when the 1916 Rising , and the brave people who fought for the freedom of this country (Nothing at all comparable to Water charges) Have the launching of the 100year commemoration spoiled by these as I said , unpatriotic scum.

    People who had relatives fight in 1916 (I'm one of them) are pretty outraged by these antics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Satriale


    I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured
    [/B]

    People just like you said the same in 1916.
    Shame on you.

    They did more than that, they spat on those boys and threw horsesh1t at them.
    I doubt the 1916 lads give a flying fcuk what commemorating the grandchildren of those people do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭323


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    papu wrote: »
    Banging on the doors and windows is childish behaviour and will not get them anywhere. Interrupting the launching of a commemoration to the 1916 Rising will also not gain them any favours. It's unpatriotic and scummy.

    Maybe, most thought that about the folks in Iceland a few years back. Banging pots and pans, shouting and making noise demanding that the government step down.
    They had pretty much had enough of the cronyism, their political system being run by and for the benefit of various financial institutions by their faithful political guardians who had adjusted their lawmaking to meet their masters´ demands.

    All sounds very familiar.

    Maybe its time for Irelands "Pots and Pans revolution", and where better for it to take place than at a 1916 commemoration.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,494 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Give it a few weeks, the protestors will be at each other's throats.
    Half of them want to sack thousands of public servants, the other half are hard-left, unionised, job-for-life boyos.

    None of them on this thread can actually agree what they'd do as an alternative.

    It's funny to watch.

    Today's ill advised protest will drive a further wedge between them

    Watch this space, sit back and enjoy the show......

    I know I will:D
    nothing wrong with being unionized

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



This discussion has been closed.
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