Spoilers Series 8, Episode 12 - "Death in Heaven"

ixoy · 09-11-2014 01:35AM

Disappointed myself and felt that there were too many moments thst, if not plot holes exactly, were just poor plotting.

Oh well I did smile at Clara's birthday and Missy saying "Oh my giddy aunt" presumably made some of the fans of the older seasons laugh too.

BlitzKrieg · 09-11-2014 02:17AM

Really only one point that really really really sticks out to me. Why did the master put Clara and the doctor together? It didn't effect this story at all from what I saw.

Also I really hope the umbrella was Missy's tardis

misslt · 09-11-2014 08:25AM

Yeah a big "meh" from me too. So much potential but it just didn't deliver!

Wasn't even a little bit moved with the whole Danny thing, I never did warm up to him. Found his whole "dead for a few days" makeup a bit creepy though.

Bold move for one writer to kill off the master, no? Assuming that she is really dead and not just de-materialised to somewhere else (which would not surprise me, although I don't know where since it can't be the afterlife

)

Wibbs · 09-11-2014 10:12AM

Da F did I just watch? Moffat seemed to be channeling RTD at his daftest. Plot holes all over the place, obvious stuff is obvious coming from miles away. Osgood getting iced an example(TBH for me no loss, she kinda irritated me). The whole master thang didn't really work either, as BlitzKrieg said why put him and Clara together, it did nada for the plot or the master's plan? Made zero sense internally. The master getting out in the first place is dubious and he/she nicked a tardis too, so where was that?

As for the master surviving? Easy peasy to make that happen. The Brigadier cyberman wasn't, it was the masters tardis, that rather than vapourising him transported him inside and then flew away.

09-11-2014 10:25AM

But he didn't kill the master... it was the same transporter-colour disappearance as earlier in the episode, or I was positive of it anyway ... rewatching it now so I'll see again at the end.

Osgood

Missy kept changing accents randomly to accentuate the "I'm crazy" thing e.g. when first captured, talking about the phone call, etc, and I think the scottish accent was to make fun of the doc

I thought it was good and missy really acted it perfectly - didn't like her in the previous short bits but she did an awesome job in this episode.

It's true there were plot holes e.g. crowing about bringing them together and then wat?

I did like the "love isn't an emotion it's a promise", and I did like danny's defiance of him to the last. I waswatching skeptically during his speech when his emotions were supposed to be gone but I can't flaw that bit - it wasn't emotional I think

What's the story with clara claiming she knew the name? Did I miss that somewhere

Mr Rhode Island Red · 09-11-2014 10:26AM

*whispers under all the hate* 'i liked it'

09-11-2014 10:28AM

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

*whispers under al the hate* 'i liked it'

me too dont worry

hey cmere... i have to tell you something ... no ihave to whisper it... it's like, SO, important?!

lol

DirtyBollox · 09-11-2014 11:19AM

And lads even if missy died she was wearing a bracelet like Danny used to bring the lad back from wherever he was at the end so master isn't dead and gone just yet

Busi_Girl08 · 09-11-2014 12:11PM

And another thing! Worst. Guards. Ever.

Seriously. They missed her take off her cuffs, slip them in her pocket and threaten to kill and then kill Osgood.

I dunno. I think I'm just pissed off that my theory that Seb was really the master didn't come to fruition

Angron · 09-11-2014 12:12PM

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

And another thing! Worst. Guards. Ever.

Seriously. They missed her take off her cuffs, slip them in her pocket and threaten to kill and then kill Osgood.

I dunno. I think I'm just pissed off that my theory that Seb was really the master didn't come to fruition

Yeah, when they didn't do anything I'd thought that they were secretly with the Master. Turned out they were just terrible at the one thing they were supposed to do.

Ginny · 09-11-2014 12:32PM

Yeah I thought it was going to turn out she'd already killed the guards and they were just somehow kept in position. Other than all the plot holes another annoyed me, so Clara loves Danny, Danny dies, she's devastated. Somehow he comes back to see her for a few minutes and nothing from her, barely any emotional reaction, and even less when she's "killing" him?

aunt aggie · 09-11-2014 12:40PM

DirtyBollox wrote: »

And lads even if missy died she was wearing a bracelet like Danny used to bring the lad back from wherever he was at the end so master isn't dead and gone just yet

No that was the same bracelet the doctor gave to Danny. I dont think she is dead and while this episode wasnt up to the same standard as Dark Water I felt it was setting up a lot of things for Christmas and the next series; Gallifrey, the Master returns and we might eventually figure out why Clara is so important.

At least that's what I'm hoping...

09-11-2014 12:54PM

Pretty certain Missy will be back. As said, you don't kill the mistress that easy.

Pretty certain thus was another episode that set up the fact that the doctor can regenerate as a woman. Maybe not the next one, but it'll happen soon.

I also think the doctor is going to harbour hate for killing Missy. After all, she told the truth for the first time just before he killed her.

Delighted that Clara's time is up. Gutted that Osgood was killed off. She would have made a great assisstant.

8mv · 09-11-2014 12:55PM

You're a tough crowd to please. Have to say I liked it for what it was.

Das Kitty · 09-11-2014 01:11PM

The brig Cyberman killed Missy, we were supposed to believe. To save the Doctor's soul or summat.

Nah, she was zapped to her TARDIS.

I realised what bothered me so much about cyber Danny. It's a grim concept and is pretty much a lift from Robocop.

I wasn't sold on Clara and Danny's relationship, so it felt very forced to me.

What I did like though was the idea that The Master sat down and thought, "Hmm, how am I going to get my buddy to be friends with me again?" And then came up with a plan to give him an army of dead humans to fix the universe with. Hahahaha.

Seemed to me that was the concept Moffat liked. The rest seemed phoned in.

Das Kitty · 09-11-2014 01:14PM

Oh, and Missy was Scottish all along. She just cranked it up from time to time.

So Scot Moff has made both the Doctor and the Master Scottish in a clear display of bias. I am outraged. :mad::pac::p

aunt aggie · 09-11-2014 01:22PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

Oh, and Missy was Scottish all along. She just cranked it up from time to time.

So Scot Moff has made both the Doctor and the Master Scottish in a clear display of bias. I am outraged. :mad::pac::p

I love it, bet it confusing the **** out of the poor Americans

Mr.Saturn · 09-11-2014 01:32PM

Since RTD left, I feel like Angela Carter has slowly taken over Doctor Who. That was like a critical retelling of a lot of notes already hit in Nu-Who, but just outright robs you of an easy answers.

Yeah, yeah, some of it was clumsy, and I'm not sure I got all of it, but after the initial 'well....', it's a grower.

doctorwhogirl · 09-11-2014 04:33PM

I'm going to sound very stupid but didn't she lie about gallifrey? Someone posted that she told the truth now I'm afraid I've missed something.

General episode feeling...meh

General series feeling....meh

It's just not pulling me in like it used to. I remember being on the edge of my seat in previous series, dying fir the next episode. Not so much here.

tommy2bad · 09-11-2014 04:59PM

Well that was good. Tied up lots of the themes and motifs in the series so far, tossed some balls in the air for the next series and managed to add some new possibilities to the Who universe. Though as the laws of physics or logic don't apply their, I suppose it only alluded to what possibilities it might opt for. The who universe seems to operate in a framework all it's own.
Poor old Danny dead and gone, where he's gone is anyones guess but he got to send back someone from wherever it is. Danny is a super actor, far better than most, what was lacking was any chemistry between him and Clara. He totally convinced as a soldier with regrets who given the opportunity would jump into action and save the day.
Clara circled her controlling, lying and doppelgangers the doctor arch, ending up alone?
I suspect whatever she wanted to tell the doctor will be revealed yet. Possibly the xmass special, if their is a santa, their should be a kid in the story?
I doubt Missie is gone for good, it would be a shame to waste such a great character. No point trying to work out how she could survive, they never explained it this time either.
The episode looked fabulous, best visuals so far. The plot was a bit let down by the coda with Clara and The Dr. I thought they could have left that for the next time. I ruined the pace of the finally.
Capaldi is an excellent doctor, just right for the part. Now get him some scripts he can really let go on and we will have something special. Clara is going, I'm sure of it now so looking forward to a new companion next year, I suspect xmass will be her swansong.

Busi_Girl08 · 09-11-2014 05:03PM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I'm going to sound very stupid but didn't she lie about gallifrey? Someone posted that she told the truth now I'm afraid I've missed something.

General episode feeling...meh

General series feeling....meh

It's just not pulling me in like it used to. I remember being on the edge of my seat in previous series, dying fir the next episode. Not so much here.

That's still to be found out. Oddly specific co-ordinates she gave, it's still entirely possible that Gallifrey is in that location, but on a different plane/dimension, parallel universe.

The Master · 09-11-2014 05:55PM

I'm still alive

Coordinates for Gallifrey.....

The Brig...

will56 · 09-11-2014 09:07PM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I'm going to sound very stupid but didn't she lie about gallifrey? Someone posted that she told the truth now I'm afraid I've missed something.

I think that was the whole point of the hug and what the Doctor said about hiding your face, because they were both lying, the Doctor that he had found Galifrey and Clara about Danny being back.

I think Capaldi needs some better storylines in the next series, some of the better writing in some episodes has really let him shine as The Doctor, it would be great to see him get a better story arc.

martingriff · 10-11-2014 12:03AM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Well that was good. Tied up lots of the themes and motifs in the series so far, tossed some balls in the air for the next series and managed to add some new possibilities to the Who universe. Though as the laws of physics or logic don't apply their, I suppose it only alluded to what possibilities it might opt for. The who universe seems to operate in a framework all it's own.
Poor old Danny dead and gone, where he's gone is anyones guess but he got to send back someone from wherever it is. Danny is a super actor, far better than most, what was lacking was any chemistry between him and Clara. He totally convinced as a soldier with regrets who given the opportunity would jump into action and save the day.
Clara circled her controlling, lying and doppelgangers the doctor arch, ending up alone?
I suspect whatever she wanted to tell the doctor will be revealed yet. Possibly the xmass special, if their is a santa, their should be a kid in the story?
I doubt Missie is gone for good, it would be a shame to waste such a great character. No point trying to work out how she could survive, they never explained it this time either.
The episode looked fabulous, best visuals so far. The plot was a bit let down by the coda with Clara and The Dr. I thought they could have left that for the next time. I ruined the pace of the finally.
Capaldi is an excellent doctor, just right for the part. Now get him some scripts he can really let go on and we will have something special. Clara is going, I'm sure of it now so looking forward to a new companion next year, I suspect xmass will be her swansong.

The one Danny sent back.

In relation to Missy the blue light when she "died" looked like the same light when she teleported in to the graveyard. Say Galifrey is a story arc for next season. I agree with another poster who has said that Missy may have given the correct coordinates but its in another dimension or phased out

10-11-2014 09:29AM

Mr Bloat wrote: »

What was the point of bringing back a major enemy like the Master and having her obliterated at the end?

Missy killed people, with that device, in an orange flash and teleported in blue.

Doctor pointed clicked and there was a blue flash.

bren2001 · 10-11-2014 09:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Missy killed people, with that device, in an orange flash and teleported in blue.

Doctor pointed clicked and there was a blue flash.

The Doctor didnt kill Missy, it was the brig Cyberman. So the colour being different doesnt give away much. Although, we are all in agreement she was teleported rather than killed. I didn't like Missy and hope she regenerates into another actor, unlikely of course.

Angron · 10-11-2014 09:38AM

bren2001 wrote: »

The Doctor didnt kill Missy, it was the brig Cyberman. So the colour being different doesnt give away much. Although, we are all in agreement she was teleported rather than killed. I didn't like Missy and hope she regenerates into another actor, unlikely of course.

Yeah, same. While it had a bit of the manicness that I loved about John Simm as the Master, far too often she made it feel over-blown and quite hammy.

tommy2bad · 10-11-2014 10:18AM

martingriff wrote: »

The one Danny sent back.

In relation to Missy the blue light when she "died" looked like the same light when she teleported in to the graveyard. Say Galifrey is a story arc for next season. I agree with another poster who has said that Missy may have given the correct coordinates but its in another dimension or phased out

I was thinking more of Orson Pink's dad or gran dad. Clara did seem to have some 'news' when she contacted the doctor. If you get what I mean!

Theirs lots to criticise in this ep, it's basically the killing joke rewritten, cybermen with souls, not just one but two! unforgivably killing Osgood and whats worse using her glasses not her inhaler as a signifier! But overall it held to the themes of the season. The doctors uncertainty about his moral position, lying, Soldiers and officers and the sacrifices they make. The nature of heroes. I think if we ignore the plot holes (this is Who, we do it all the time) this series was one of the best of nu who.
And hitting that note on remembrance weekend, had to be intended.

smacl · 10-11-2014 12:49PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

unforgivably killing Osgood and whats worse using her glasses not her inhaler as a signifier!

Watching it the kids, they were mildly shocked when Osgood got zapped, but Missy then standing on her glasses drew laughs all round. A bit cold perhaps, but proper Master style humour. We were also gobsmacked how a cyberman managed to drag the rather chunky looking Indian chap through such a tiny aeroplane window.

Wasn't the strongest episode, but I enjoyed it right up to the point Santa made an appearance. Not holding out much hope for the Christmas special.

bren2001 · 10-11-2014 01:18PM

smacl wrote: »

Watching it the kids, they were mildly shocked when Osgood got zapped, but Missy then standing on her glasses drew laughs all round. A bit cold perhaps, but proper Master style humour. We were also gobsmacked how a cyberman managed to drag the rather chunky looking Indian chap through such a tiny aeroplane window.

Wasn't the strongest episode, but I enjoyed it right up to the point Santa made an appearance. Not holding out much hope for the Christmas special.

Not attacking you but a few people have said that too me. "A poor episode but enjoyable up until Santa appeared." Firstly, it wasnt part of the episode but more the teaser for Christmas. Secondly, maybe because I am a Nick Frost fan, but the cameo gives nothing away for the Christmas special and you can hardly judge the tone of it on it. We don't know if he is Santa or someone dressed as Santa. I will wait for the full preview before setting my expectations.

(As a side: I know it said Nick Frost as Santa Clause, however, we all know the number one rule with Dr Who. They lie).

**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 12 - "Death in Heaven"

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Spoilers Series 8, Episode 12 - "Death in Heaven"