ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

dxhound2005 · 08-11-2014 06:40PM

Cuttlefish wrote: »

I beg to differ on the status of the USC charge when it was first introduced and also its predecessor.

Both were seen to be temporary measures but USC levy/ tax/ charge, decide whatever you think it is, is a permanent fixture and a reminder in EVERYONES pay slip how we are paying for the good times had by developers et al.

IT WILL NEVER BE REMOVED, they will "tinker" with it and let you think you are getting money back/ relief etc but all smoke and mirrors

You can't say it will never be removed. The next government could be in the mood to give even more relief to the people as well as doing away with water charges and property tax. I think we are all in agreement that that FG and Labour will be wiped out.

There is no doubt about when USC was introduced. It was in the 2011 budget which FF/Greens brought before the Dail in December 2010. I would have to check out the history of the two levies it incorporated into one but it is very possible that the politicians who brought those in said they would be temporary. Income tax was a temporary measure the first time it was introduced, long before Ireland was independent.

Stargate · 08-11-2014 06:42PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Where do you get this idea that nobody is arrested for assaulting a Garda? The unfortunate part is that if the person receives other charges, such as public order charges, that charge will often not be accompanied by an assault charge. That's just the way it is. And it's something that has been brought up a number of times.

Can you clarify what the disinformation is from the GRA? He seems pretty clear. Gardaí have been assaulted at protests, there are 1000 gardaí assaulted per year and Gardaí have received threats in person and in Facebook. Where's the disinformation?

The guy is saying that because Gardaí have been awarded medals for bravery then they shouldn't fear threats from protesters. I'm going to quote this again

https://www.facebook.com/EdenmoreSaysNo/posts/1552716361625721

Read the comments and you tell me why Gardaí do not have a reason for fearing the actions of protesters.

He's saying that nobody has been arrested. This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

Two words come to mind , Straws and clutching .
Can you show me a link to these arrests " at the clinic in Coolock "
Do you mean when peole were pushed to the ground near Enda's car earlier that day?

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 06:47PM

I agree with metered water charges

Water & treatment never to be privatised eh?

http://www.veoliawater.ie/

gladrags · 08-11-2014 06:48PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Where do you get this idea that nobody is arrested for assaulting a Garda? The unfortunate part is that if the person receives other charges, such as public order charges, that charge will often not be accompanied by an assault charge. That's just the way it is. And it's something that has been brought up a number of times.

Can you clarify what the disinformation is from the GRA? He seems pretty clear. Gardaí have been assaulted at protests, there are 1000 gardaí assaulted per year and Gardaí have received threats in person and in Facebook. Where's the disinformation?

The guy is saying that because Gardaí have been awarded medals for bravery then they shouldn't fear threats from protesters. I'm going to quote this again

https://www.facebook.com/EdenmoreSaysNo/posts/1552716361625721

Read the comments and you tell me why Gardaí do not have a reason for fearing the actions of protesters.

He's saying that nobody has been arrested. This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

The woods are full of Wardens

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 06:54PM

I agree with metered water charges

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Where do you get this idea that nobody is arrested for assaulting a Garda? The unfortunate part is that if the person receives other charges, such as public order charges, that charge will often not be accompanied by an assault charge. That's just the way it is. And it's something that has been brought up a number of times.

Can you clarify what the disinformation is from the GRA? He seems pretty clear. Gardaí have been assaulted at protests, there are 1000 gardaí assaulted per year and Gardaí have received threats in person and in Facebook. Where's the disinformation?

The guy is saying that because Gardaí have been awarded medals for bravery then they shouldn't fear threats from protesters. I'm going to quote this again

https://www.facebook.com/EdenmoreSaysNo/posts/1552716361625721

Read the comments and you tell me why Gardaí do not have a reason for fearing the actions of protesters.

He's saying that nobody has been arrested. This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

If you assault a Garda,you end up in a squad car,nobody has been carted off to the cells.Once more you try to twist absolute facts to find a negative which suits the pro-tax side.

Being arrested for obstruction is vastly different than being arrested for assault.

My name is URL · 08-11-2014 07:00PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Can you clarify what the disinformation is from the GRA? He seems pretty clear. Gardaí have been assaulted at protests, there are 1000 gardaí assaulted per year and Gardaí have received threats in person and in Facebook. Where's the disinformation?

Headline from the Indo

Gardai involved in policing water protests threatened and assaulted - Union

Three assaults a day recorded on officers

If you can't see how that's designed to mislead and sway public opinion regarding water protests then there ain't much I can do to help you see it.

GRA President Garda Dermot O’Brien appeared on both Communicorp stations Newstalk and TodayFM yesterday.

When asked by Jonathan Healy what assaults gardaí are receiving specifically at water protests, he diverted straight to talk of “sinister elements” and threats on Facebook, defended pushing an elderly Coolock woman as “reasonable” and finished the interview without answering the question.

O’Brien has been speaking about the number of assaults on Gardai and using the issue of water protests to frame it all. Anyone that has heard his interviews will have realised it.

Cuttlefish · 08-11-2014 07:02PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You can't say it will never be removed. The next government could be in the mood to give even more relief to the people as well as doing away with water charges and property tax. I think we are all in agreement that that FG and Labour will be wiped out.

There is no doubt about when USC was introduced. It was in the 2011 budget which FF/Greens brought before the Dail in December 2010. I would have to check out the history of the two levies it incorporated into one but it is very possible that the politicians who brought those in said they would be temporary. Income tax was a temporary measure the first time it was introduced, long before Ireland was independent.

USC is a crutch that the Finance dept can't live without, I am nit sure of exact figures but it brings in approximately €3bn per year.

Don't forget PRSI was "temporary" also

If the protest against IW and Water Charges continue then perhaps Water Charges will be scrapped, USC here to stay.

listermint · 08-11-2014 07:06PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Cuttlefish wrote: »

USC is a crutch that the Finance dept can't live without, I am nit sure of exact figures but it brings in approximately €3bn per year.

Don't forget PRSI was "temporary" also

If the protest against IW and Water Charges continue then perhaps Water Charges will be scrapped, USC here to stay.

Everything is a crutch, Tax Payers are treated as a bottomless pit rather than tackling the efficiencies that are required in numerous departments and the cronyism and not fit for task employees keep milking the tax payer, oh and blame poor people and sinister elements as being the actual problem....

falan · 08-11-2014 07:29PM

I agree with metered water charges

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w70pcgFcaRM

moxin · 08-11-2014 07:46PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

I've seen Audrey speak at rallies, she is quite a good speaker. She is a random resident who like many others were not involved in politics before and now she has stood up for her beliefs. Its the likes of her that the state elite are afraid of, ordinary people making a stand.

falan · 08-11-2014 07:53PM

I agree with metered water charges

moxin wrote:

I've seen Audrey speak at rallies, she is quite a good speaker. She is a random resident who like many others were not involved in politics before and now she has stood up for her beliefs. Its the likes of her that the state elite are afraid of, ordinary people making a stand.

I suppose the likes of little chu chu and Co would say she's a great actress.

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 08:12PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Stargate wrote: »

Two words come to mind , Straws and clutching .
Can you show me a link to these arrests " at the clinic in Coolock "
Do you mean when peole were pushed to the ground near Enda's car earlier that day?

zerks wrote: »

If you assault a Garda,you end up in a squad car,nobody has been carted off to the cells.Once more you try to twist absolute facts to find a negative which suits the pro-tax side.

Being arrested for obstruction is vastly different than being arrested for assault.

No, actually it is the very same section of the Public Order Act.

http://www.thejournal.ie/water-protest-coolock-garda-station-1764662-Nov2014/

My name is URL wrote: »

Headline from the Indo

If you can't see how that's designed to mislead and sway public opinion regarding water protests then there ain't much I can do to help you see it.

O’Brien has been speaking about the number of assaults on Gardai and using the issue of water protests to frame it all. Anyone that has heard his interviews will have realised it.

You're attributing the headlines to the GRA when it is not what was said, as evidenced from your own bloody quotes. And in the same posts you criticise others for framing things to suit themselves. I trust the irony isn't lost on you.

Ghost Buster · 08-11-2014 08:18PM

mikom wrote: »

"We are committed to maintaining the services at Roscommon General Hospital.”

In a speech made in Roscommon town on February 8, as Kenny called on listeners to vote for local Fine Gael TDs Frank Feighan and Denis Naughten.

He also ended schleeveen politics didnt he.. John Mc Nulty is sure glad of it..

Stargate · 08-11-2014 08:29PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

He's saying that nobody has been arrested. This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

Like i said , and i am open to correction on this but there were no arrests at the protest in Coolock , the night of the pepper spray incident as far as i know.

moxin · 08-11-2014 08:34PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn, many hours ago I challenged you to provide evidence to back up your claim a riot occurred outside Coolock Garda station, have you found the evidence yet or are you still digging?

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 08:40PM

I agree with metered water charges

moxin wrote: »

Little CuChulainn, many hours ago I challenged you to provide evidence to back up your claim a riot occurred outside Coolock Garda station, have you found the evidence yet or are you still digging?

He still believes obstructing somebody & assaulting them is the same thing,don't depend on anything he says.Same old,same old for the pro tax crowd.

Creative Juices · 08-11-2014 08:47PM

Stargate wrote: »

From May 2014

" Denis O’Brien owned Topaz appoints Brian Cowen as director "

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/topaz-brian-cowen-1445910-May2014/

Where do Gardai and other service get their fuel ?

Fook me , the more i read and see this sh!te the more i see the need for not just water meters/ IW/ to go but that whole corrupt system.

In Galway, the Gardaí only use Topaz.

Irish Steve · 08-11-2014 08:52PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

zerks wrote: »

He still believes obstructing somebody & assaulting them is the same thing,don't depend on anything he says.Same old,same old for the pro crowd.

I am going to bite here, what do you mean by "the pro crowd"?

I know it's getting more complex by the hour, but there are many different varieties and flavours of "pro" in this thread, and the extremes of the political spectrum as well.

In some ways, it would be helpful if we could split this thread into a thread about Irish Water as an organisation and the related political issues, and a separate thread about the installation of meters, the related local protests and intimidation (or worse, depending on who you believe).

It's not that easy I know, but the situation where the Government are able to try and divert legitimate protest and dissatisfaction with their policies by blaming extremists and dissidents is not helping the many people who have no interest at all in any form of violent protesting or intimidation, but they are VERY interested in seeing the present administration and it's cronyism consigned to history.

gladrags · 08-11-2014 08:57PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No, actually it is the very same section of the Public Order Act.

http://www.thejournal.ie/water-protest-coolock-garda-station-1764662-Nov2014/

You're attributing the headlines to the GRA when it is not what was said, as evidenced from your own bloody quotes. And in the same posts you criticise others for framing things to suit themselves. I trust the irony isn't lost on you.

Corruption is what it is,your pedantic narrow arguement , smells of hypocrisy.

Tell me what your values are,and cut your mindless rhetoric.

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 09:05PM

I agree with metered water charges

Irish Steve wrote: »

I am going to bite here, what do you mean by "the pro crowd"?

I know it's getting more complex by the hour, but there are many different varieties and flavours of "pro" in this thread, and the extremes of the political spectrum as well.

In some ways, it would be helpful if we could split this thread into a thread about Irish Water as an organisation and the related political issues, and a separate thread about the installation of meters, the related local protests and intimidation (or worse, depending on who you believe).

It's not that easy I know, but the situation where the Government are able to try and divert legitimate protest and dissatisfaction with their policies by blaming extremists and dissidents is not helping the many people who have no interest at all in any form of violent protesting or intimidation, but they are VERY interested in seeing the present administration and it's cronyism consigned to history.

Edited my post.

shinzon · 08-11-2014 09:12PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

This video was posted by Audrey Clancy of Dublin says no who was at coolock Garda station and who says she was pepper sprayed for peacefully protesting

Shin

Going Forward · 08-11-2014 09:12PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Of the €1.2 billion water bill, do we know the seperate costs breakdown of supplying and treating water for households, compared to business, industry and agriculture?

Off the total bill, if memory serves , there was a suggestion that €200 million is non domestic, and collected by local authorities.

I've asked this earlier in the other IW thread, but no response yet.

Will domestic bills subsidise industry or agriculture water costs?

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 09:15PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Stargate wrote: »

Like i said , and i am open to correction on this but there were no arrests at the protest in Coolock , the night of the pepper spray incident as far as i know.

There rarely are in those siutations. It's generally unsafe to try and arrest people when so outnumbered and the crowd have demonstrated, as shown on a previous video, that they will interfere. Prosecutions tend to be followed up later.

moxin wrote: »

Little CuChulainn, many hours ago I challenged you to provide evidence to back up your claim a riot occurred outside Coolock Garda station, have you found the evidence yet or are you still digging?

Here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0014.html#sec14

Educate yourself on the legislation

gladrags wrote: »

Corruption is what it is,your pedantic narrow arguement , smells of hypocrisy.

Tell me what your values are,and cut your mindless rhetoric.

Corruption seems to be whatever you decide it is.

zerks wrote: »

He still believes obstructing somebody & assaulting them is the same thing,don't depend on anything he says.Same old,same old for the pro tax crowd.

I'll educate you a little too so. Obstruction refers to Section 19 of the Public Order Act which makes it an offence to interfere with, obstruct or assault a peace officer (i.e. a Garda) in the course of his duty. The reason people are always arrested for obstruction is because an allegation of assault on a member must be investigated by a member of the rank of sergeant before any prosecution can be brought.

moxin · 08-11-2014 09:20PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0014.html#sec14

Educate yourself on the legislation

So shouting "Shame on you" constitutes a riot?!

Ghost Buster · 08-11-2014 09:20PM

Corruption seems to be whatever you decide it is.

No its not. It back handers, cronyism, nepotism, tax avoidance, fiddling expenses, being in the pocket of business men........
You know...Irish Politics...

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 09:24PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

moxin wrote: »

So shouting "Shame on you" constitutes a riot?!

Even if that was all that was said, which it pretty clearly wasn't, you would still be stuck on subsection 2.

Ghost Buster · 08-11-2014 09:25PM

[QUOTE=Little CuChulainn;92957126

Corruption seems to be whatever you decide it is.

.[/QUOTE]

No its not. It back handers, cronyism, nepotism, tax avoidance, fiddling expenses, being in the pocket of business men........
You know...Irish Politics...[/QUOTE]

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 09:26PM

I agree with metered water charges

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There rarely are in those siutations. It's generally unsafe to try and arrest people when so outnumbered and the crowd have demonstrated, as shown on a previous video, that they will interfere. Prosecutions tend to be followed up later.

Here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0014.html#sec14

Educate yourself on the legislation

Corruption seems to be whatever you decide it is.

I'll educate you a little too so. Obstruction refers to Section 19 of the Public Order Act which makes it an offence to interfere with, obstruct or assault a peace officer (i.e. a Garda) in the course of his duty. The reason people are always arrested for obstruction is because an allegation of assault on a member must be investigated by a member of the rank of sergeant before any prosecution can be brought.

Still doesn't explain why nobody has been arrested due to these "3 assaults a day",going by this theory we'd have seen Spike Island re-opened to house all these 'criminals' for "assaulting Gardai".:rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 09:34PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

zerks wrote: »

Still doesn't explain why nobody has been arrested due to these "3 assaults a day",going by this theory we'd have seen Spike Island re-opened to house all these 'criminals' for "assaulting Gardai".:rolleyes:

I don't know where you are getting this idea that nobody is arrested for it. It's pretty common. you should visit the courts some time.

Stargate · 08-11-2014 09:38PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

Called you on it , asked you to prove it?

Your reply ...

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There rarely are in those siutations. It's generally unsafe to try and arrest people when so outnumbered and the crowd have demonstrated, as shown on a previous video, that they will interfere. Prosecutions tend to be followed up later.

Very good , you lied glad you cleared that up !

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP