ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Tinkersbell · 08-11-2014 04:10PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

tayto lover wrote: »

What intrigues me is that that poster seems to think that working for FG is dirty.
It's some kind of admission

Clear your inbox... I can't PM you.....

Irish Steve · 08-11-2014 04:24PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Phoebas wrote: »

Unless they're on an average of €333k a year, that figure is bull****.

No it was a typo, now fixed, and it's interesting that you have to nit pick rather than face the bigger picture. Have a look here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-waters-2000-extra-staff-to-cost-householders-2bn-29952271.html

For the full story that's been researched in much more detail than I could ever do it. My figure is still wrong, but to avoid you derailing the thread even more, I will leave it as 1 Bn rather than the 2 that the ESRI estimate.

Then again, if increases in pay of the sort that are likely happen do happen, it will be a bit like Tierney's 8.3 million that ended up as over €30M at Dublin City Council.

Oh hang on a moment, Tierney's the top dog at IW now isn't he, and some of the people he paid all that money to are now working for him as well.

We can be sure it wasn't their job costing skills that got them that job then can't we!

In Lonesome Dove · 08-11-2014 04:24PM

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Looks that way, they're making up stories of Gardai and IW workers being assaulted instead, twisting a high court judge's words to suit that story.

This is something I don't get though. I'm not part of these protests that are happening in other parts of the country or parts of Dublin so I don't know what's really going on and happening in these areas/estates/protests. The gardi are not going to get called out to these for nothing or a walk in the park. There must be something happening for the gardai to get called out, like a distruption for the meter installers and to the work that they have been employed to do. A peaceful protest of people and neighbours nearby some water meter installations standing about chanting 'Enda Kenny, Not a penny' or 'Down with this sort of thing' or whatever is not going to require gardai. There must be something going down for the gardai to get called out.

IMO, this is wrong and futile. The protestors should be targeting their local TDs and the government that has implemented these charges and Irish Water.

Phoebas · 08-11-2014 04:35PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

No it was a typo, now fixed, and it's interesting that you have to nit pick rather than face the bigger picture. Have a look here

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-waters-2000-extra-staff-to-cost-householders-2bn-29952271.html

For the full story that's been researched in much more detail than I could ever do it. My figure is still wrong, but to avoid you derailing the thread even more, I will leave it as 1 Bn rather than the 2 that the ESRI estimate.

Then again, if increases in pay of the sort that are likely happen do happen, it will be a bit like Tierney's 8.3 million that ended up as over €30M at Dublin City Council.

Oh hang on a moment, Tierney's the top dog at IW now isn't he, and some of the people he paid all that money to are now working for him as well.

We can be sure it wasn't their job costing skills that got them that job then can't we!

Nit picking? :rolleyes:
You got it wrong by a factor of 5 to 10 times and you call it nit picking.

But, on the substantive issue; I'd like to see IW reduce their staff numbers far more quickly than proposed. There is some requirement to keep on a lot of the local authority workers because that's where the institutional knowledge lies, but that obviously doesn't explain all of it.
People who want to scrap IW and return to the status quo would see all of those workers being retained in perpetuity.

Tinkersbell · 08-11-2014 04:35PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

This is something I don't get though. I'm not part of these protests that are happening in other parts of the country or parts of Dublin so I don't know what's really going on and happening in these areas/estates/protests. The gardi are not going to get called out to these for nothing or a walk in the park. There must be something happening for the gardai to get called out, like a distruption for the meter installers and to the work that they have been employed to do. A peaceful protest of people and neighbours nearby some water meter installations chanting 'Enda Kenny, Not a penny' or 'Down with this sort of thing' or whatever is not going to require gardai. There must be something going down for the gardai to get called out.

IMO, this is wrong and futile. The protestors should be targeting their local TDs and the government that has implemented these charges and Irish Water.

Agreed.
But there's posters on this thread claiming that Gardai and IW workers are being assaulted on a regular basis.
I'm just wondering why, with all the 'Hollywood style equipment' there's out on the streets, that nobody can post a video of this happening.
Someone mentioned a Garda getting 'shoved in the back' but even when I asked for that clip, there was none.
Denis O'Brien's rag claims that dissident republicans are causing the trouble at the protests, yet where are the arrests and files sent to the DPP?
What we're seeing on here and in O'Brien's rags is a full on smear campaign.
It's almost a joke at this stage, the lies they're peddling.

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 04:36PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

tayto lover wrote: »

What intrigues me is that that poster seems to think that working for FG is dirty.
It's some kind of admission

I wouldn't work for them. Listen, if the extent of your argument is now just to throw accusations around about who people might be instead of arguing their points then you have already lost.

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Clear your inbox... I can't PM you.....

And the fact ye have to coordinate it is pretty sad.

Tinkersbell · 08-11-2014 04:37PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Anyway, I'm off to the Irish game, I'll leave the pro water tax lads to their smears for now.
Might bring a bucket to collect the rain for next week's coffee.

tayto lover · 08-11-2014 04:39PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I wouldn't work for them. Listen, if the extent of your argument is now just to throw accusations around about who people might be instead of arguing their points then you hav

Do you not understand English?
I said I know of one pro-water charges poster who does work for FG. He admitted it on another thread.

Tinkersbell · 08-11-2014 04:39PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I wouldn't work for them. Listen, if the extent of your argument is now just to throw accusations around about who people might be instead of arguing their points then you have already lost.

And the fact ye have to coordinate it is pretty sad.

LOL, I'd love to see the bag of lies that is your inbox......;)
See ya.

KERSPLAT! · 08-11-2014 04:40PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Ghost Buster wrote: »

How much is a stamp these days. Im going to start lobbying the only TRUE TDS in my area...

MOD

A CMOD has already been involved in a similar incident and his warning was a perma ban if it happens again, I'm giving the same warning now. This crap stops now.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Your posts and posting style intrigue me. I have a certain amount of training and experience in body language, tone,language, interpretation and subtext from my work. I work in theatre and give speech and drama classes.
You have some sort of vested interest dont you.
Are you in FG or work for the state in some capacity?

Ghost Buster wrote: »

He had to pop into work to get the facts and figures. I think i know who this is!!!!!:D

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Sorry.
Ill Pm back the 5 posters who gave me the false heads up on your FG and State Board connections.
Im gullible i guess.

And this crap can stop too.

gladrags · 08-11-2014 05:01PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Enda Kenny: "Irish water will
never be privatised"
November 7,2014

Enda Kenny :The USC charge is a "temporary measure". 2011.

Banjo String · 08-11-2014 05:08PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Phoebas wrote: »

The judge didn't say there was video evidence suggesting assault; he said there was other evidence suggesting assault.
The judge accepted the evidence and granted injunctions.

To argue that because you can't find a video on YouTube that it didn't happen is just moronic in the extreme.

And no prosecutions or charges.....

Seems legit.

Irish Steve · 08-11-2014 05:10PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

gladrags wrote: »

Enda Kenny: "Irish water will
never be privatised"
November 7,2014

Enda Kenny :The USC charge is a "temporary measure". 2011.

Which side of his mouth was he talking out of?

Or, Him speak with forked tongue.

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 05:20PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you not understand English?
I said I know of one pro-water charges poster who does work for FG. He admitted it on another thread.

But what does it matter? Even if it's Enda himself, you should still be able to argue his points without referring to who he is. It is very possible to work for FG and not agree with some of their policies just like it is possible to disagree with them even though you voted them in.

Tinkersbell wrote: »

LOL, I'd love to see the bag of lies that is your inbox......;)
See ya.

I'll send you a screenshot if you want.

dxhound2005 · 08-11-2014 05:29PM

gladrags wrote: »

Enda Kenny: "Irish water will
never be privatised"
November 7,2014

Enda Kenny :The USC charge is a "temporary measure". 2011.

Irish Steve wrote: »

Which side of his mouth was he talking out of?

Or, Him speak with forked tongue.

When did he say that? If he said it he is going completely against what the Minister for Finance is saying. USC was brought in by FF and the Greens but it was not really something new, it just combined two pre-existing levies into one.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20140513~WRG?opendocument

Minister for Finance (Deputy Michael Noonan): The Universal Social Charge (USC) was introduced in Budget 2011 to replace the Income Levy and the Health Levy. It was a necessary measure to widen the tax base, remove poverty traps and raise revenue to reduce the budget deficit. It is a more sustainable charge than those it replaced. It is applied at a low rate on a wide base. I should point out that it was never intended that the USC would be a temporary measure, it was designed and incorporated in to the Irish taxation system as part of its permanent structure and the revenues collected play a vital part in meeting the many expenditure demands placed on the Exchequer.

Stargate · 08-11-2014 05:30PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Stargate wrote: »

Denis "Banks write off €300m in three deals , Siteserv , Topaz and Beacon Hospital " O'Brien

Stargate wrote: »

I'll try again .......

Are you happy that Mr Hubert Kearns when he retired in 2013 got a whopping 270,000 and a pension of 68,000 per year. Is now a senior manager @IW being paid a high salary ? Yes Or No ? Simple reply , simple answer please!

YES OR NO?

Tinkersbell wrote: »

I'll see you Hubert Kearns and raise you one Mr. David O'Connor (ex fingal county manager)
Retired in November 2013 with a €296,082.00 lump sum and a yearly pension of €73,394.00.

Have a guess where he's employed now?

Yes Irish Water .

But I didn't know this !!!

From May 2014

" Denis O’Brien owned Topaz appoints Brian Cowen as director "

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/topaz-brian-cowen-1445910-May2014/

Where do Gardai and other service get their fuel ?

Fook me , the more i read and see this sh!te the more i see the need for not just water meters/ IW/ to go but that whole corrupt system.

tayto lover · 08-11-2014 05:31PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But what does it matter? Even if it's Enda himself, you should still be able to argue his points without referring to who he is. It is very possible to work for FG and not agree with some of their policies just like it is possible to disagree with them even though you voted them in.

If it mattered I would have said so a lot earlier in the thread obviously.
I mentioned it in reply to the other poster's question.
You seem to be more interested in it than he is.

Stargate · 08-11-2014 05:47PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But what does it matter? Even if it's Enda himself, you should still be able to argue his points without referring to who he is. It is very possible to work for FG and not agree with some of their policies just like it is possible to disagree with them even though you voted them in.

I'll send you a screenshot if you want.

Will we see Enda's name on the list ?

gladrags · 08-11-2014 05:52PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When did he say that? If he said it he is going completely against what the Minister for Finance is saying. USC was brought in by FF and the Greens but it was not really something new, it just combined two pre-existing levies into one.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20140513~WRG?opendocument

Minister for Finance (Deputy Michael Noonan): The Universal Social Charge (USC) was introduced in Budget 2011 to replace the Income Levy and the Health Levy. It was a necessary measure to widen the tax base, remove poverty traps and raise revenue to reduce the budget deficit. It is a more sustainable charge than those it replaced. It is applied at a low rate on a wide base. I should point out that it was never intended that the USC would be a temporary measure, it was designed and incorporated in to the Irish taxation system as part of its permanent structure and the revenues collected play a vital part in meeting the many expenditure demands placed on the Exchequer.

No need for a source,it is common knowledge.

Baldy's comments contradict Kenny's .

Its a question of who is lying and who is not.

Probably both.

Lying that is...

Nothing new.

My name is URL · 08-11-2014 05:58PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Good write up here about the insidious disinformation from Gardai and media regarding the number of 'assaults' and how they are erroneously framing them in the context of water protests.

http://oireachtasretort.tumblr.com/post/102073020165/are-irish-water-protesters-assaulting-three-gardai-a

In April of this year, at the height of garda scandals and ahead of their annual conference, the Garda Representative Association claimed 1000 Gardaí are assaulted each year.

That’s “around three per day” and was headlined as such in the Irish Mirror

Three Gardai are being assaulted by thugs every day, shock new figures show

and notably that according to Garda John Healy

“Whereas we don’t have a full year as yet to reflect the numbers month on month, they are actually twice what had been recorded here to fore.

“And it would appear to show that between 950 and 1000 guards are assaulted per annum.”

“And we’ll know that further once we get past October this year.”

Stargate · 08-11-2014 06:04PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

My name is URL wrote: »

Good write up here about the insidious disinformation from Gardai and media regarding the number of 'assaults' and how they are erroneously framing them in the context of water protests.

http://oireachtasretort.tumblr.com/post/102073020165/are-irish-water-protesters-assaulting-three-gardai-a

Just seen this , he looks like one of those "dissident , trackie wearing protester scum , attacking Garda types " I thought it might be you Irish Steve until i remembered the accent LOL , just kidding

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=555246774607120&set=vb.529293587202439&type=2&theater

masculinist · 08-11-2014 06:06PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Stargate wrote: »

Yes Irish Water .

But I didn't know this !!!

From May 2014

" Denis O’Brien owned Topaz appoints Brian Cowen as director "

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/topaz-brian-cowen-1445910-May2014/

Where do Gardai and other service get their fuel ?

Fook me , the more i read and see this sh!te the more i see the need for not just water meters/ IW/ to go but that whole corrupt system.

Topaz is not exactly the cheapest supplier either. I only stop at a Topaz if my tank is empty and I buy the bare minimum until I can get to someone cheaper.

Cantona's Collars · 08-11-2014 06:13PM

I agree with metered water charges

My name is URL wrote: »

Good write up here about the insidious disinformation from Gardai and media regarding the number of 'assaults' and how they are erroneously framing them in the context of water protests.

http://oireachtasretort.tumblr.com/post/102073020165/are-irish-water-protesters-assaulting-three-gardai-a

Paul Murphy was interviewed yesterday & asked about these reports of 3 assaults a day.He condemned any violence or threats but then asked the important question himself: "If 3 Gardai a day are assaulted,how come no arrests are made?"
I reckon if I walked down the town & assaulted a Garda,I'd be in a cell before I knew it.

Cuttlefish · 08-11-2014 06:23PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When did he say that? If he said it he is going completely against what the Minister for Finance is saying. USC was brought in by FF and the Greens but it was not really something new, it just combined two pre-existing levies into one.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/(indexlookupdail)/20140513~WRG?opendocument

Minister for Finance (Deputy Michael Noonan): The Universal Social Charge (USC) was introduced in Budget 2011 to replace the Income Levy and the Health Levy. It was a necessary measure to widen the tax base, remove poverty traps and raise revenue to reduce the budget deficit. It is a more sustainable charge than those it replaced. It is applied at a low rate on a wide base. I should point out that it was never intended that the USC would be a temporary measure, it was designed and incorporated in to the Irish taxation system as part of its permanent structure and the revenues collected play a vital part in meeting the many expenditure demands placed on the Exchequer.

I beg to differ on the status of the USC charge when it was first introduced and also its predecessor.

Both were seen to be temporary measures but USC levy/ tax/ charge, decide whatever you think it is, is a permanent fixture and a reminder in EVERYONES pay slip how we are paying for the good times had by developers et al.

IT WILL NEVER BE REMOVED, they will "tinker" with it and let you think you are getting money back/ relief etc but all smoke and mirrors

Tony EH · 08-11-2014 06:25PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Irrespective of the many different opinions people have of paying for water or the government's reasons for introducing water charges, how anyone can come on here and repeatedly defend Irish Water itself is absoulely beyond me

It stinks, from its inception, to how it was staffed, to how it has gone about its business, the whole thing is rotten.

Well, as I said before on the last thread, it's either due to vested interests of some discription, being afraid to roll back on a misguided opinion/conception, or they're simply Fine Gael mouthpieces (definitely one poster in the "FG/IW Circle Jerk" has already admitted to being so).

It's clear, as if it hasn't been since the first 100 pages of the original thread, that these people have absolutely zero credibility and their "opinions" should be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

the groutch · 08-11-2014 06:29PM

gladrags wrote: »

Enda Kenny: "Irish water will
never be privatised"
November 7,2014

Enda Kenny :The USC charge is a "temporary measure". 2011.

Enda Kenny: "It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person's home" 1994

Cuttlefish · 08-11-2014 06:31PM

Stargate wrote: »

Yes Irish Water .

But I didn't know this !!!

From May 2014

" Denis O’Brien owned Topaz appoints Brian Cowen as director "

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/topaz-brian-cowen-1445910-May2014/

Where do Gardai and other service get their fuel ?

Fook me , the more i read and see this sh!te the more i see the need for not just water meters/ IW/ to go but that whole corrupt system.

WOW and double WOW I missed that press release….

Just shows how this little "boys" club that is Ireland really does suit the rich and those in power and the little man can pay for the meal.

IW and Water Charges and the protests against it are for this very reason….Enough is enough.

Blatant nepotism, fat cats getting fatter and ordinary Irish people paying for it all

Wake up

Cork city Dec 6th - A date for your diaries

gladrags · 08-11-2014 06:33PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Irish Steve wrote: »

Which side of his mouth was he talking out of?

Or, Him speak with forked tongue.

It is only a miniscule example.

There is a need to confront the root cause.

Repeditive corruption covering all aspects of Irish society,and the fact that this corruption,is accepted as a norm.

The water charge anger,it appears,is challenging the "norm".

Little CuChulainn · 08-11-2014 06:34PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

zerks wrote: »

Paul Murphy was interviewed yesterday & asked about these reports of 3 assaults a day.He condemned any violence or threats but then asked the important question himself: "If 3 Gardai a day are assaulted,how come no arrests are made?"
I reckon if I walked down the town & assaulted a Garda,I'd be in a cell before I knew it.

Where do you get this idea that nobody is arrested for assaulting a Garda? The unfortunate part is that if the person receives other charges, such as public order charges, that charge will often not be accompanied by an assault charge. That's just the way it is. And it's something that has been brought up a number of times.

My name is URL wrote: »

Good write up here about the insidious disinformation from Gardai and media regarding the number of 'assaults' and how they are erroneously framing them in the context of water protests.

http://oireachtasretort.tumblr.com/post/102073020165/are-irish-water-protesters-assaulting-three-gardai-a

Can you clarify what the disinformation is from the GRA? He seems pretty clear. Gardaí have been assaulted at protests, there are 1000 gardaí assaulted per year and Gardaí have received threats in person and in Facebook. Where's the disinformation?

Stargate wrote: »

Just seen this , he looks like one of those "dissident , trackie wearing protester scum , attacking Garda types " I thought it might be you Irish Steve until i remembered the accent LOL , just kidding

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=555246774607120&set=vb.529293587202439&type=2&theater

The guy is saying that because Gardaí have been awarded medals for bravery then they shouldn't fear threats from protesters. I'm going to quote this again

https://www.facebook.com/EdenmoreSaysNo/posts/1552716361625721

Read the comments and you tell me why Gardaí do not have a reason for fearing the actions of protesters.

He's saying that nobody has been arrested. This is also false. There were three arrested for obstruction at the clinic in Coolock.

mikom · 08-11-2014 06:39PM

the groutch wrote: »

Enda Kenny: "It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a person's home" 1994

"We are committed to maintaining the services at Roscommon General Hospital.”

In a speech made in Roscommon town on February 8, as Kenny called on listeners to vote for local Fine Gael TDs Frank Feighan and Denis Naughten.

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP