Got Issued A Penalty Notice By Irish Rail After Being Allowed To Travel By Staff!

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 08:50PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you really need to ask how the OP got into this situation? OP decides to stay and extra day, ticket expires, decides not buy a new one so asks if he could travel on the expired one instead. He would have been told by the info desk and the booking office that he would have to buy a new ticket so i dont buy that he wasnt told. Its all in the thread.

How was your weekend anyway? do anything nice?

OP decides to stay an extra day, ticket expires. Decides to ask staff if he can travel a day later than planned on unused return ticket. According to OP staff decide he can. According to you, he's a liar.

I guess its just a case that you don't want to admit your colleagues ****ed up. Thats okay because lots of people **** up and just admit it and move on.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 08:51PM

corktina wrote: »

That's not the issue and it quite unfair. The OP asked three times if it was OK to travel on the ticket , what's a person to do if told three times it was OK?

Well if you actually read OP's post correctly you would see that only the man at the ticket barrier told him "ok". But since when are barrier operators ticket inspectors?lol

OP you used an out of date ticket now pay your fine

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 08:56PM

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm constantly amused at "the op must my lying as that would never happen" argument.

This is an internet forum. No one has any reason to lie about IR as it makes no difference in the real world, so why would they.

Wasting your time. IE staff do the very same as management when it suits them, yet are very quick to place blame on management for matters that affect their pocket. I guess the CIE group in general are still the cess pool that so many think it is. The public despise them. Politicians don't trust them. (but lack balls to takle them head on)

A real shame. For such a little nation, we could have a great railway if all involved actually gave a damn.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 08:57PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

The person that allowed him board the train after looking at his ticket is the only person that matters here. By allowing him board the train he was given permission to travel on an expired/invalid ticket so can not subsequently be penalised for being on the train without a valid ticket.

Do you even know what your talking about

The staff at the barrier are not allowing you to board the train, they are allowing you to enter the platform.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 08:58PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He wasn't told by three people that it was ok.

The first two directed him elsewhere.

This

Jesus Christ lord have mercy can people not read

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 08:59PM

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Well if you actually read OP's post correctly you would see that only the man at the ticket barrier told him "ok". But since when are barrier operators ticket inspectors?lol

OP you used an out of date ticket now pay your fine

Are you for real? The book was passed according to the OP. Passed from Info desk to ticket office to barrier. Bonkers.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 09:03PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This thread has gotten more abstract since I posted earlier...

Bottom line:

- Ticket was valid for return travel on 2/11, NOT 3/11
- First two IE employees referred him to someone else. The third guy pretty much shrugs and says "ok"
- Ticket inspector later checks the ticket and sees yesterday's date and issues a fine

Regardless of whether the guy at the gate should or shouldn't have let the OP through, the OP was fully aware that the ticket was expired.

So who's really to blame? The OP knowingly chancing it anyway, or the inspector doing his job?

Exactly why have dates on tickets if you can use out if date tickets

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 09:05PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Are you for real? The book was passed according to the OP. Passed from Info desk to ticket office to barrier. Bonkers.

No they didn't know the answer so they referred him on to another member of staff...

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:06PM

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Exactly why have dates on tickets if you can use out if date tickets

Exactly what? Your supporting a post that asks who's to blame.:rolleyes:

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:07PM

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

No they didn't know the answer so they referred him on to another member of staff...

Jesus wept! He was referred from those that should know to those that should really know to someone who just checks tickets and called it.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-11-2014 09:08PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Exactly what? Your supporting a post that asks who's to blame.:rolleyes:

" Ticket inspector later checks the ticket and sees yesterday's date and issues a fine"

Alf Veedersane · 03-11-2014 09:10PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Are you for real? The book was passed according to the OP. Passed from Info desk to ticket office to barrier. Bonkers.

But the OP wasn't at fault?

I agree that someone should have been aware that he had to pay something but the guy at the barrier probably let him off with it. The inspector didn't bend the rules though. The OP wasn't blatantly trying to rip anyone off but get away with a minor thing. In my opinion.

But the fact remains he still did the rounds trying to get on with the ticket he had or he'd just have gone and asked for the one way ticket home straight off the bat.

He should have been told by the guy at the barrier but he either didn't care about letting him on with an invalid ticket or let him off with it rather than it being his 'fault'.

03-11-2014 09:10PM

I'm all for paying up if you chance your arm and get caught but he did ask 3 times if it was ok and they referred him on to someone who said fine

abff · 03-11-2014 09:11PM

I'm slightly bemused as to why someone would bother to make several postings on this thread insisting that the OP must be lying.

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:17PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But the OP wasn't at fault?

I agree that someone should have been aware that he had to pay something but the guy at the barrier probably let him off with it. The inspector didn't bend the rules though. The OP wasn't blatantly trying to rip anyone off but get away with a minor thing. In my opinion.

But the fact remains he still did the rounds trying to get on with the ticket he had or he'd just have gone and asked for the one way ticket home straight off the bat.

He should have been told by the guy at the barrier but he either didn't care about letting him on with an invalid ticket or let him off with it rather than it being his 'fault'.

Nearly accurate. The rounds were only done after the info desk gave no definitive answer. Book passed to ticket office. Then the ticket office gave no definitive answer and ultimately (book passed again) it came down the the guy at the "automatic ticket barrier".

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:20PM

abff wrote: »

I'm slightly bemused as to why someone would bother to make several postings on this thread insisting that the OP must be lying.

Don't be bemused. Its the done thing around here. Guilty until proved innocent.

abff · 03-11-2014 09:21PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Don't be bemused. Its the done thing around here. Guilty until proved innocent.

Must be terrible to have such a negative attitude.

_Kaiser_ · 03-11-2014 09:26PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm all for paying up if you chance your arm and get caught but he did ask 3 times if it was ok and they referred him on to someone who said fine

But hang on - is it the passenger's responsibility to ensure that they have a valid ticket for the journey or not?

This wasn't an honest mistake.. the OP knew his ticket had expired but chanced his arm anyway. The first 2 staff he spoke to passed the buck, the 3rd guy just said "ok". Only the inspector actually did his job here but that doesn't absolve the OP of his responsibility

I wonder would we get the same responses if this thread was about "chancers" on Dublin Bus, or would people be blaming the drivers?

Mikros · 03-11-2014 09:29PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But hang on - is it the passenger's responsibility to ensure that they have a valid ticket for the journey or not?

This wasn't an honest mistake.. the OP knew his ticket had expired but chanced his arm anyway. The first 2 staff he spoke to passed the buck, the 3rd guy just said "ok". Only the inspector actually did his job here but that doesn't absolve the OP of his responsibility

People's travel arrangements change. Some companies allow you to transfer tickets, others do but charge a fee and some are non-transferable. The OP asked 3 members of staff what the situation was and was told he was ok to travel. Why in all that is reasonable should he be 2nd guessing a member of staff of the company?

"Chancing his arm" is not asking 3 members of staff.

n97 mini · 03-11-2014 09:31PM

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

" Ticket inspector later checks the ticket and sees yesterday's date and issues a fine"

Why are you latching onto the position held by only one out of five staff involved?

n97 mini · 03-11-2014 09:34PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wasting your time. IE staff do the very same as management when it suits them, yet are very quick to place blame on management for matters that affect their pocket. I guess the CIE group in general are still the cess pool that so many think it is. The public despise them. Politicians don't trust them. (but lack balls to takle them head on)

A real shame. For such a little nation, we could have a great railway if all involved actually gave a damn.

Ara I wouldn't go that far. There are some really great staff in IE. I don't meet them very often, but they are there. That English guy who does the snack trolley on the Waterford train is a star. (Ok, he doesn't work for IE, but he works on the trains)

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:42PM

abff wrote: »

Must be terrible to have such a negative attitude.

Not my attitude. Just commenting,

_Kaiser_ · 03-11-2014 09:42PM

Mikros wrote: »

People's travel arrangements change. Some companies allow you to transfer tickets, others do but charge a fee and some are non-transferable. The OP asked 3 members of staff what the situation was and was told he was ok to travel. Why in all that is reasonable should he be 2nd guessing a member of staff of the company?

"Chancing his arm" is not asking 3 members of staff.

- He asked 3 staff members, 2 of which fobbed him off/passed the buck to someone else, and the third didn't seem too bothered either way as the OP tells it

- There are arrangements in place apparently.. you pay an extra fare

- The OP's travel changes are not the company's problem

- It's still the passenger's responsibility to have a valid ticket for travel

Call it pedantic if you will, but the OP decided to stay up an extra night himself, he knew his ticket had expired yet chanced his arm anyway and he got caught by the one guy in the chain who was doing his job properly.

So should we continue this "cute hoor"/"it depends who you get" nonsense, or should we be trying to move to a fair and consistent service where everyone knows what's expected and those who try to pull a fast one are pulled up for it?

03-11-2014 09:45PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But hang on - is it the passenger's responsibility to ensure that they have a valid ticket for the journey or not?

This wasn't an honest mistake.. the OP knew his ticket had expired but chanced his arm anyway. The first 2 staff he spoke to passed the buck, the 3rd guy just said "ok". Only the inspector actually did his job here but that doesn't absolve the OP of his responsibility

I wonder would we get the same responses if this thread was about "chancers" on Dublin Bus, or would people be blaming the drivers?

maybe he figured since he had actually paid for a return journey they might allow it.
OP has a responsibility all right but I'd expect a little leniency in this case really

Deenie123 · 03-11-2014 09:48PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I usually agree with a lot of what you reason here, but that is a very very pedantic way of viewing the issue. The failure here, based on what was described was absolutely IE's fault. The OP was fully aware that the ticket expired and took measures to see if he could travel on it. Those measures allowed him to travel and then get nabbed by the inspector. Victim of a poor system.

Actually it sounds like the OP was actively seeking to find out if the return date was a hard and fast requirement, and if it was, how did he go about either updating the ticket or purchasing a new one. He wasn't trying to travel on an expired ticket, he was trying to find out what steps he needed to take - be it a new ticket, paying €10 to change it (correct answer that none of the IE employees he spoke to told him of), or being told that he was okay to travel on an unused but expired by 9 hours ticket.

Mikros · 03-11-2014 09:53PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So should we continue this "cute hoor"/"it depends who you get" nonsense, or should we be trying to move to a fair and consistent service where everyone knows what's expected and those who try to pull a fast one are pulled up for it?

A fair and consistent service is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not saying he should have got on for free or the rules shouldn't apply. But the person at fault in this scenario was the staff member who told him he could travel on his expired ticket. That is the inconsistency that makes the resulting fine unfair on the OP.

Looking to transfer tickets is not that unusual for a customer to request - happens all the time. if Irish Rail staff don't know or don't care about their own policy in this regard, it is a failing of the company, not the customer.

Grandeeod · 03-11-2014 09:54PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

-
So should we continue this "cute hoor"/"it depends who you get" nonsense,

Some people are so hung up on this so called traditional Irish way of doing things that we may end up straighter that a ****ing ruler and so far up our own holes, we'll be giving ourselves guided tours of our own teeth. Cute Hoorism is alive and well within the elected Government. Deal with that first, before you critique it in relation to something as simple as travelling on a train.

From the top down, not the bottom up.

abff · 03-11-2014 10:00PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Not my attitude. Just commenting,

My comment about having a negative attitude was not aimed at you. I just don't understand why some people seem to always assume the worst in others. I know that going to the other extreme and always believing everything people tell you is somewhat naive, but to be that cynical is just sad.

_Kaiser_ · 03-11-2014 10:10PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Some people are so hung up on this so called traditional Irish way of doing things that we may end up straighter that a ****ing ruler and so far up our own holes, we'll be giving ourselves guided tours of our own teeth. Cute Hoorism is alive and well within the elected Government. Deal with that first, before you critique it in relation to something as simple as travelling on a train.

From the top down, not the bottom up.

(At the risk of going off-topic..)

But where does the Government come from? The electorate.

Why do they continue to pull strokes? Because there's still a sizable part of the electorate that support the same practices and in the privacy of their own thoughts admit that they'd do exactly the same given the opportunity and/or are envious that they themselves haven't the balls/neck to do the same.

Change needs to start at the bottom up, not with those who are benefiting most from the current setup. As you mentioned politics, this starts with demanding better from the TD's and Councillors we elect and taking a more active role to ensure it happens.

This whole "it's someone else's fault" / "can't someone else do it" attitude is precisely WHY the country is the mess it is - where honest decent people bear the brunt (and cost) for those who continue to chance their arm.

You say this is just about tavelling on a train, but where do you draw the line? How many others chanced their arm that day? How many others were let away with it? How much extra are paying passengers stumping up to compensate? How much are we ALL paying for the strokes of others?

Two wrongs don't make a right I was taught as a child - that and personal responsibility for one's actions .. reading this thread though I may have to have a word with my mother as it seems she was wrong!

corktina · 03-11-2014 10:19PM

I'm blaming management.....

Got Issued A Penalty Notice By Irish Rail After Being Allowed To Travel By Staff!

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