Got Issued A Penalty Notice By Irish Rail After Being Allowed To Travel By Staff!

mickydoomsux

Just to weigh in as a IE employee, the problem here is that there are pretty much zero standardized rules with things like this.

We've gotten numerous emails from different departments with contrary positions on excess/penalty fares and allowing people to travel on tickets at different times.

The general rule seems to be that if the ticket costs the same as it would for the same type at the booking office then you are ok but if it costs less you pay the difference. But then they sent out an email telling us to charge a €10 surcharge for changes across the board no matter how muchthe ticket originally cost.

I did that for a while and eventually had a complaint emailed in about me and was told to only charge the difference again. All the staff in our station did that for a while until someone who had paid the difference got fined by the RPU because of this.

Basically, Customer Service say charge the difference seemingly to keep customers onside and the RPU say charge a tenner because that's the "penalty" they have in place for making a change to the ticket.

No one in management is willing to codify a hard and fast set of rules and it's left up to the fool on the ground in the company to once again make the call on policy using conflicting information and hope it doesn't get him into bother.

Grandeeod

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

(At the risk of going off-topic..)

But where does the Government come from? The electorate.

Why do they continue to pull strokes? Because there's still a sizable part of the electorate that support the same practices and in the privacy of their own thoughts admit that they'd do exactly the same given the opportunity and/or are envious that they themselves haven't the balls/neck to do the same.

Change needs to start at the bottom up, not with those who are benefiting most from the current setup. As you mentioned politics, this starts with demanding better from the TD's and Councillors we elect and taking a more active role to ensure it happens.

This whole "it's someone else's fault" / "can't someone else do it" attitude is precisely WHY the country is the mess it is - where honest decent people bear the brunt (and cost) for those who continue to chance their arm.

You say this is just about tavelling on a train, but where do you draw the line? How many others chanced their arm that day? How many others were let away with it? How much extra are paying passengers stumping up to compensate? How much are we ALL paying for the strokes of others?

Two wrongs don't make a right I was taught as a child - that and personal responsibility for one's actions .. reading this thread though I may have to have a word with my mother as it seems she was wrong!

Wonderful post, but we will go way off topic developing our opinions. I'm with you regarding cute hoorism, but disagree that its changeable from the bottom up. Leaders lead, but we have no real leaders in Ireland. Irish Rail is a mess. No leaders, just goons towing the line. It's share holder is based on an even bigger mess that is Government which changes policy like the weather. No consistency. IE staff have been subsumed into this futility, but many refuse to recognise it and then think of their jobs as more like an entitlement rather than something to be proud off. The knock on effect means the actual customer is caught in the crossfire.

For all the pomp and ceremony from IE staff and CIE in general, I've seen no leadership emerge. The bottom rung hangs out here to defend the company, while its management cling to the media and spin more **** that a washing machine. Interestingly, despite all the staff Vs management stuff we witness here and the strikes that pop up over the years, there is a combined and resolute unity between them when it comes to critisism of the company in general. Herein lies the crux of a major problem. It appears that the company is proud and defensive, but without any accountability to its most basic responsibility to its customers.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Just to weigh in as a IE employee, the problem here is that there are pretty much zero standardized rules with things like this.

We've gotten numerous emails from different departments with contrary positions on excess/penalty fares and allowing people to travel on tickets at different times.

The general rule seems to be that if the ticket costs the same as it would for the same type at the booking office then you are ok but if it costs less you pay the difference. But then they sent out an email telling us to charge a €10 surcharge for changes across the board no matter how muchthe ticket originally cost.

I did that for a while and eventually had a complaint emailed in about me and was told to only charge the difference again. All the staff in our station did that for a while until someone who had paid the difference got fined by the RPU because of this.

Basically, Customer Service say charge the difference seemingly to keep customers onside and the RPU say charge a tenner because that's the "penalty" they have in place for making a change to the ticket.

No one in management is willing to codify a hard and fast set of rules and it's left up to the fool on the ground in the company to once again make the call on policy using conflicting information and hope it doesn't get him into bother.

At least you have been honest and not spun the **** out of the issue. Unfortunatley some of your colleagues have chosen to be ultra defensive and further muddy the waters by accusing customers of being liars.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you really need to ask how the OP got into this situation? OP decides to stay and extra day, ticket expires, decides not buy a new one so asks if he could travel on the expired one instead. He would have been told by the info desk and the booking office that he would have to buy a new ticket so i dont buy that he wasnt told. Its all in the thread.

How was your weekend anyway? do anything nice?

Seriously how would you know what the staff in any part of Irish Rail would have said to the OP or anyne else?

Strong Life in Dublin

n97 mini wrote: »

Why are you latching onto the position held by only one out of five staff involved?

5? I think you mean 4 and the ticket inspector is the one who gives the fines, the others have noting got to do with fines etc

Strong Life in Dublin

Okay so this is what happened. The guy at the barrier gave OP a chance to board without a valid ticked but the ticket inspector was not so easy going and done his job.

/end of story pay your fine

RayM

In this case, it's pretty obvious that there was no intention to defraud Irish Rail. They should save the penalties for deliberate fare evaders, rather than punishing someone who actually made the effort to ensure that their ticket was valid. They should also train their staff properly, so that they can be consistent and avoid this kind of mix-up. Even if the ticket inspector was right, common sense would dictate that a €100 fine is disproportionate.

Daenarys

It's on the terms & conditions when buying your online ticket, OP had to check the box to say he read them to complete the booking.

If he bothered to read up on how to change his ticket, he would have known to pay €10 at the ticket office because there currently isn't a "change your booking" function online yet.

It's all clearly stated when booking online and in the FAQ's, it's your responsibility to have a valid ticket.

Sorry OP I think you'll be paying your fine.

Alf Veedersane

Grandeeod wrote: »

Nearly accurate. The rounds were only done after the info desk gave no definitive answer. Book passed to ticket office. Then the ticket office gave no definitive answer and ultimately (book passed again) it came down the the guy at the "automatic ticket barrier".

It was still a case of "Is it okay to get on with this invalid ticket?"

"Go ask X"

Rinse and repeat.

All I'm saying is he was chancing it. Unless you're a first timer you know the score and that's how you play it...and hope that everyone else let's you away with it because someone earlier in the chain has.

God knows I've done it myself.

It's not trying to evade the fare but hoping that someone will bend the rules a little. That's why it's a harsh penalty.

But technically the inspector was correct to apply it. Doesn't make you go through every swear word in the book though.

Grandeeod

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It was still a case of "Is it okay to get on with this invalid ticket?"

"Go ask X"

Rinse and repeat.

All I'm saying is he was chancing it. Unless you're a first timer you know the score and that's how you play it...and hope that everyone else let's you away with it because someone earlier in the chain has.

God knows I've done it myself.

It's not trying to evade the fare but hoping that someone will bend the rules a little. That's why it's a harsh penalty.

But technically the inspector was correct to apply it. Doesn't make you go through every swear word in the book though.

Ive no problem with the end result inspector.

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm constantly amused at "the op must my lying as that would never happen" argument.

This is an internet forum. No one has any reason to lie about IR as it makes no difference in the real world, so why would they.

Its happened a few time on here

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

OP decides to stay an extra day, ticket expires. Decides to ask staff if he can travel a day later than planned on unused return ticket. According to OP staff decide he can. According to you, he's a liar.

I guess its just a case that you don't want to admit your colleagues ****ed up. Thats okay because lots of people **** up and just admit it and move on.

Point is that he would have been told at the first time of asking that he would have to buy a new ticket , OP decided not to buy a ticket and chance it on the train. OP got fined but now blames the staff for letting him through the barrier.
Either way, the OP wont win an appeal , like you said move on shall we.

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

Are you for real? The book was passed according to the OP. Passed from Info desk to ticket office to barrier. Bonkers.

It happens when someone doesnt accept the answer they are given, they tend to come up with some mad stuff and chance it anyway.

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Point is that he would have been told at the first time of asking that he would have to buy a new ticket , OP decided not to buy a ticket and chance it on the train. OP got fined but now blames the staff for letting him through the barrier.
Either way, the OP wont win an appeal , like you said move on shall we.

OP told the story. You have reinvented it. Even if your version of the event was true, how did the OP knowingly get through the Heuston barriers with an invalid ticket?

Hilly Bill

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

No they didn't know the answer so they referred him on to another member of staff...

You can be assured that they knew the answer but the OP didnt accept it. It happens everyday.

Hilly Bill

Deenie123 wrote: »

Actually it sounds like the OP was actively seeking to find out if the return date was a hard and fast requirement, and if it was, how did he go about either updating the ticket or purchasing a new one. He wasn't trying to travel on an expired ticket, he was trying to find out what steps he needed to take - be it a new ticket, paying €10 to change it (correct answer that none of the IE employees he spoke to told him of), or being told that he was okay to travel on an unused but expired by 9 hours ticket.

He would have been told at the first point of contact that he would have to buy a new ticket and especially at the ticket office.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Seriously how would you know what the staff in any part of Irish Rail would have said to the OP or anyne else?

experience

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

OP told the story. You have reinvented it. Even if your version of the event was true, how did the OP knowingly get through the Heuston barriers with an invalid ticket?

He gave a sob story to the chap on the barrier and he let him through just to get rid of him. happens every day.

Deenie123

Hilly Bill wrote: »

He would have been told at the first point of contact that he would have to buy a new ticket and especially at the ticket office.

Yet there is an IE employee on here saying that there's actually confusion about how to handle those exact situations, and another poster who was in a similar position had to have IE tweet them because nobody at the station knew what to do. I'm inclined to believe the OP.

lucernarian

Mikros wrote: »

People's travel arrangements change. Some companies allow you to transfer tickets, others do but charge a fee and some are non-transferable. The OP asked 3 members of staff what the situation was and was told he was ok to travel. Why in all that is reasonable should he be 2nd guessing a member of staff of the company?

"Chancing his arm" is not asking 3 members of staff.

Indeed. A passenger ensures he has a valid ticket for travel by asking 3 members of staff, one of which actually bothers to give an answer and gives a wrong answer at that. Yet who has to pay a standard fare and/or fine? Not the lazy f**ks in the station...

That's common sense at work there *rolleyes*

If people would stick to the OP and leave out the speculative ramblings and curmudgeonly suggestions to pay a fine which by the company's own rules is not justified were CCTV evidence or employee testimonials be produced.

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

He gave a sob story to the chap on the barrier and he let him through just to get rid of him. happens every day.

well then,if that's the case, he deserves the sack for not doing the job he is there to do.

Valetta

Hilly Bill wrote: »

He would have been told at the first point of contact that he would have to buy a new ticket and especially at the ticket office.

What's that supposed to mean?

Why don't you say "He was told......"

Why?- Because you don't know, so stop saying it as if it was fact.

I think the important point here- made earlier, is that the OP didn't deliberately try to evade a fare, so thier appeal should have a decent chance of success.

monument

This thread has yet to be moderated.

In the meanwhile everybody can relax, read the charter, and stop saying others are telling lies while at the same time looking for proof when you have no proof that their story is a lie.

-- moderator

LorMal

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You had a ticket for 2 October.

You traveled on 3 November.

You got caught.

Man / woman up and pay the fine.

Oh, for Gods sake!! The OP did everything possible to clarify the situation. If a member of staff (representing the company) informs the OP that it is okay to travel on the train with the ticket - then that should suffice.
It is NOTHING to do with 'manning up'! That's the kind of passive 'blame the customer' nonsense that allows our public service to constantly under-perform.
(If you want to be pedantic - and I suspect you probably do - then the staff member saying that it is okay to travel constitutes a verbal contract.)

Frank Lee Midere

lucernarian wrote: »

Indeed. A passenger ensures he has a valid ticket for travel by asking 3 members of staff, one of which actually bothers to give an answer and gives a wrong answer at that. Yet who has to pay a standard fare and/or fine? Not the lazy f**ks in the station...

That's common sense at work there *rolleyes*

If people would stick to the OP and leave out the speculative ramblings and curmudgeonly suggestions to pay a fine which by the company's own rules is not justified were CCTV evidence or employee testimonials be produced.

Yes. Frankly nobody should be fined if the ticket gets through the barriers if there is a human there. For all we know a railway company ( not saying this one) might have a strategy of entrapment - let invalid tickets on then force an inspection to make money. The ticket holder can't be expected to know more about the regulations than the employees.

JimsAlterEgo

Appeal the fine, if rejected dont pay it and let them pursue you through the courts. cant see any judge siding with them

phater phagan

I think if the officials of Irish Rail okay-ed the ticket then he is not culpable and therefore should not be held responsible for the infraction.

kopfan77

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Point is that he would have been told at the first time of asking that he would have to buy a new ticket , OP decided not to buy a ticket and chance it on the train. OP got fined but now blames the staff for letting him through the barrier.
Either way, the OP wont win an appeal , like you said move on shall we.

He wasnt told at the first time of asking....so as you said....move on back to your hill!!

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Ara I wouldn't go that far. There are some really great staff in IE. I don't meet them very often, but they are there. That English guy who does the snack trolley on the Waterford train is a star. (Ok, he doesn't work for IE, but he works on the trains)

wonder is he the same lad who works the rosslare trains? if so, couldn't agree more

end of the road

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- He asked 3 staff members, 2 of which fobbed him off/passed the buck to someone else, and the third didn't seem too bothered either way as the OP tells it

- There are arrangements in place apparently.. you pay an extra fare

- The OP's travel changes are not the company's problem

- It's still the passenger's responsibility to have a valid ticket for travel

Call it pedantic if you will, but the OP decided to stay up an extra night himself, he knew his ticket had expired yet chanced his arm anyway and he got caught by the one guy in the chain who was doing his job properly.

So should we continue this "cute hoor"/"it depends who you get" nonsense, or should we be trying to move to a fair and consistent service where everyone knows what's expected and those who try to pull a fast one are pulled up for it?

3 staff let him through. so he should pay feck all