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Swimming for Tri

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭SucCes09


    I was looking around the web, and came across the http://www.swimsmooth.com/kick.html link. It seems to line up with the advise on this thread - the kick is not done for power (for triathlon distance races) but either a drill to improve fitness, or <more importantly> to improve the stroke efficiency.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Mr Tango wrote: »
    I would always advocate a small kick set as part of the session.

    Found nealry all triathletes dont.

    Any views???

    I think it helps for body position and efficiency in the water.

    I never did kick sets until I did sessions with Mr Tango. It took a while to get a good kick, i.e. one that gave any sort of forward propulsion, but a proper kick gave me a better body position which allowed me to finally start bilateral breathing which improved my swimming no end.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    All swim clubs and HP swim squads do kick sets almost every session so clearly its an important part of swim training.

    However hands up who knows exactly what they are intended for? Of course Tango, interested and PK can chip in as they are swim coaches. But what does your kick set do for you?

    Fins vs no fins? With fins a relaxed flutter sends you flying up and down the lane. Take them off and I personally grind to an almost stop. Yet a shark once commented that I had a good kick while drafting me for a bit. :confused:

    What is the real benefit of using fins? I find after a set of say 10x50m kick with a board and fins, I fly the next few lengths I swim. I see folk swimming sets with them. Are they kidding themselves?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym



    What is the real benefit of using fins? I find after a set of say 10x50m kick with a board and fins, I fly the next few lengths I swim. I see folk swimming sets with them. Are they kidding themselves?

    i find the same after a set of front scull while kicking with no fins. when i switch back to a normal stroke, i can feel the push i am getting off my kick.


    what does my kick set do for me? practise getting my kick cadence up for one. i 'm with you on this one mike, if i do my kick drills with no fins i'm going nowhere. for now though i've gone from no kick at all(and i mean none, legs just dragged) to a regular kick now. if i can just use the kick to keep me higher and more streamlined in the water i'll be happy.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    We were once given 1500m kick to do at a swim session. 1500m not really sure what the rationale behind that was, other than to cause intense pain.

    And kick sets without no fins and no board


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭SucCes09


    Would it be true to say that the kick will only have a significant impact on body position if the core is strong enough to support the legs and upper body?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Any thoughts on the pull buoy article that is floating around?

    http://trisutto.com/the-pull-buoy-debate-2/

    I used it a good bit probably about two years ago but never use my PB anymore. I'm no longer faster with it than I am without on last check so maybe thats why I stopped!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    I used to be faster with the pb than without, but was heading in the wrong direction by using it a lot. I am now much faster without the pb by training the kick better but I still find longer sets are easier with the extra buoyancy and as the article says it's the closest thing you can do in the pool to mimic wetsuit swimming conditions and as such will give significant aid to some swimmers and less to others.

    The main benefit I derived from the pb was the lengthening of my stroke and the correct catch and pull and learning how to make that cycle as efficient as possible while covering the longest distance. The main downside I found was my kick dropped off and I struggled to maintain body position as my cadence dropped.

    Absolutely no debate about the strength benefits of pb work though - I saw huge gains in just 3 months on a strict pb + paddles diet, gains that have now stayed by integrating back in a reasonable kick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    I recently got a Garmin 910xt and when I use it in the pool, the pace for my lengths is all over the place. For instance when I swam 800 today, the Garmin gave me the following paces for each length;

    1) 1.41/100m, 2) 1.58/100m, 3) 1.50/100m, 4) 1.56/100m, 5) 1.26/100m, 6) 2.20/100m, 7) 1.49/100m, 8) 1.53/100m, 9) 1.47/100m, 10) 1.57/100m, 11) 1.48/100m, 12) 1.52/100m, 13)) 1.49/100m, 14) 1.52/100m, 15) 1.50/100m, 16) 1.49/100m.

    The total time was 14.55 with an overall average pace of 1.51, which minus time spent turning at the wall, for my actual moving time is probably about right. The paces for the individual lengths clearly aren't though. Why does this happen? And can I read anything into any of them?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    zico10 wrote: »
    I recently got a Garmin 910xt and when I use it in the pool, the pace for my lengths is all over the place. For instance when I swam 800 today, the Garmin gave me the following paces for each length;

    1) 1.41/100m, 2) 1.58/100m, 3) 1.50/100m, 4) 1.56/100m, 5) 1.26/100m, 6) 2.20/100m, 7) 1.49/100m, 8) 1.53/100m, 9) 1.47/100m, 10) 1.57/100m, 11) 1.48/100m, 12) 1.52/100m, 13)) 1.49/100m, 14) 1.52/100m, 15) 1.50/100m, 16) 1.49/100m.

    The total time was 14.55 with an overall average pace of 1.51, which minus time spent turning at the wall, for my actual moving time is probably about right. The paces for the individual lengths clearly aren't though. Why does this happen? And can I read anything into any of them?

    The accelerometer reads a break in pattern as being a turn- touch turns may not read as being very distinct from your stroke, so a swim length may include a glide from the wall as being part of the preceeding length. Tumble turn for greater accuracy, the accelerometer will read this as your turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    And would a completly crap tumble turn be better than no tumble turn at all? Because that's what I'd be doing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    zico10 wrote: »
    And would a completly crap tumble turn be better than no tumble turn at all? Because that's what I'd be doing.

    I'd say so- although touch turning with a defined turn (exaggerated arm sweep) should improve accuracy too.

    In general I don't find the 910 all that useful for stroke analysis, too much variance. The Garmin Swim I found more accurate, but still outside what you'd expect to be useful.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    zico10 wrote: »
    And would a completly crap tumble turn be better than no tumble turn at all? Because that's what I'd be doing.

    if you want your 100 splits, hit the lap button on the wall on each 100, perfect timing analysis then


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    mossym wrote: »
    if you want your 100 splits, hit the lap button on the wall on each 100, perfect timing analysis then

    And very slow turns. Are you swimming 100s/400s or just lots of 25s??


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    BTH wrote: »
    And very slow turns. Are you swimming 100s/400s or just lots of 25s??

    you only need to do it for the 100's you're interested in. most people would be pretty consistent, so doing a 400 and pressing once at the end of the 400 and dividing by would be relatively accurate. if you really want to know your 100 time, the cost of a button press every 2/3 lengths may be worth it.

    i always found the pace the 910 calculated as off, but the time it measured for a length to be pretty accurate, so then you could figure out the time for the 100, without needing to hit the lap button. it just means calculating from the web interface rather than relying on the watch

    but if you really wanted to know from the watch, the button will do it, at the cost of slower turns as you said. but sure what do us racing tri's care about turns?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    mossym wrote: »
    if you want your 100 splits, hit the lap button on the wall on each 100, perfect timing analysis then

    I don't really need to know, certainly didn't need to know for what I was doing today, I was just curious is all.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    zico10 wrote: »
    I don't really need to know, certainly didn't need to know for what I was doing today, I was just curious is all.

    have a look at garmin connect, and pick out the lengths that make up the 100's you were curious about, see if the lengths added together give the same number as the pace.With the swimming you are doing no way have you that much variation on consecutive 100's unless you are experimenting with something


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    I've given up on analyzing most lap data from 910 pool swims. Far too much variance, often mistakes your stroke, and its prone to dropping lengths. Even timing 100's (start/stop button) is limited as it takes a second to compose at the end and hit the button, when swimming fast to the wall. Pool clock is much better. The Garmin is useful for counting distance for longer sets though, my maths goes to pieces on the pool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    mossym wrote: »
    have a look at garmin connect, and pick out the lengths that make up the 100's you were curious about, see if the lengths added together give the same number as the pace.With the swimming you are doing no way have you that much variation on consecutive 100's unless you are experimenting with something

    I wasn't curious about the pace I was holding for any of the lengths. I knew there hadn't been such variation in my paces and I was curious why the Garmin was recording such variations. KG's original reply explained this and I was no longer curious. I appreciate your responses, but I seldom analyse my training to the extent you're suggesting. It's good to know the watch's shortcomings if I ever did want accurate paces in future though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Ill normally just take a quick peak at the half way point in a 200 or 400 so i can check if theres a drop-off in the 2nd half


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Never had any issues with 910 swimming.

    What you can do is set up time alerts. In a 25 and want to swim 1:26 power hundred. Alert every 22 seconds. Should beep on every turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    tunney wrote: »
    Never had any issues with 910 swimming.

    What you can do is set up time alerts. In a 25 and want to swim 1:26 power hundred. Alert every 22 seconds. Should beep on every turn.

    We all wanna swim 1:26 per hundred, if only it was that easy.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    The accelerometer reads a break in pattern as being a turn- touch turns may not read as being very distinct from your stroke, so a swim length may include a glide from the wall as being part of the preceeding length. Tumble turn for greater accuracy, the accelerometer will read this as your turn.

    i don't think this is actually the case. from my understanding a lap isn't triggered by a break in pattern. it's triggered by an acceleration different to a normal stroke, in other words the push off the wall, which is faster than you can swing your arm. touch turns are fine if you get a decent push.

    stopping in the middle of the lane and going again would be a break in pattern, but wouldn't trigger a lap. the exaggerated arm swing suggested would then also not help trigger a lap. a decent push off the wall would


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    @Kurt Godel
    The best drill I have found to accomplish this is to incorporate the dolphin kick with freestyle or backstroke. The trick is to swim with a one kick to one pull ratio. By having to keep up with the legs with this drill, the swimmer will get into a much faster stroke rate than he or she customarily uses. Once they get accustomed to the stroke rate they can then switch back to a flutter kick without slowing the arm rate down. Michael Klim of Australia actually converted to dolphin kick with his freestyle in the last 10 meters or so of his world‐record 100 m. leadoff in the 4 x 100 freestyle relay in the Sydney Olympics. The purpose was to keep up his stroke rate at a time when it would normally slow in the race. In other words, instead of getting on the off‐ramp at the end of the race, the dolphin kick kept him on the freeway.
    FUNDAMENTALS OF FAST SWIMMING

    After reading this paragraph from the link you provided in the 'Swimming for Tri Beginners' thread, I tried dolphin kicking towards the end of some fast 100s I was doing. I was dolphin kicking for a lot closer to 5m than 10m, (and to someone standing poolside, it might not have looked like a dolphin kick) but be that as it may, it did force me to increase my stroke rate and it felt like I swam faster. Have you ever tried this yourself? Or can you ever see it being useful in training? Or more importantly a race?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    zico10 wrote: »
    @Kurt Godel


    FUNDAMENTALS OF FAST SWIMMING

    After reading this paragraph from the link you provided in the 'Swimming for Tri Beginners' thread, I tried dolphin kicking towards the end of some fast 100s I was doing. I was dolphin kicking for a lot closer to 5m than 10m, (and to someone standing poolside, it might not have looked like a dolphin kick) but be that as it may, it did force me to increase my stroke rate and it felt like I swam faster. Have you ever tried this yourself? Or can you ever see it being useful in training? Or more importantly a race?

    Never tried dolphin kicking (outside of fly) anywhere except a couple of dolphin kicks off a tumble turn, even then I don't do it right. I sometimes watch the Asgard sharks dolphin kick into a turn; seems to speed them up. Must try your move next time.

    Do you swim fly at all? It's a good stroke to give you a whole new appreciation of moving through the water, and how powerful a kick can be (dolphin or otherwise). Don't know that it would be much use in a restrictive wetsuit though- but thats just a hunch.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Never tried dolphin kicking (outside of fly) anywhere except a couple of dolphin kicks off a tumble turn, even then I don't do it right. I sometimes watch the Asgard sharks dolphin kick into a turn; seems to speed them up. Must try your move next time.

    Do you swim fly at all? It's a good stroke to give you a whole new appreciation of moving through the water, and how powerful a kick can be (dolphin or otherwise). Don't know that it would be much use in a restrictive wetsuit though- but thats just a hunch.

    I'm definitely not dolphin kicking right either. Saw a member of the elite squad do length after length of it in the NAC, and it made me feel like giving up swimming. But whatever I was doing at the end of the 100s, did make me increase my already incredibly slow stroke rate. I was looking for underwater clips of Michael Klim in that relay, but couldn't find anything.

    I'm barely coordinated enough to manage front crawl, so I don't swim butterfly. I don't see any use for it a tri, so like tumble turning, it's not a priority and I don't think I need to work on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    zico10 wrote: »
    I'm barely coordinated enough to manage front crawl, so I don't swim butterfly. I don't see any use for it a tri, so like tumble turning, it's not a priority and I don't think I need to work on it.

    To be honest I don't think you need to work on dolphin kicks at all.

    Worth thinking about why your stoke rate picked up when dolphin kicking though. Do your legs sink when flutter kicking? Are your toes pointed back, reducing drag?

    (Mind you I've been overthinking my swimming in the past while. Sometimes JKS is the best advice)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    To be honest I don't think you need to work on dolphin kicks at all.

    Worth thinking about why your stoke rate picked up when dolphin kicking though. Do your legs sink when flutter kicking? Are your toes pointed back, reducing drag?

    Yes to the first question, I'm sure they do. I generally swim faster with a pull buoy, so doesn't that mean my kick is not as good as it could be.

    No to the second question. I'm not the most flexible person naturally, and all the running I do no doubt makes matters worse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    zico10 wrote: »
    Yes to the first question, I'm sure they do. I generally swim faster with a pull buoy, so doesn't that mean my kick is not as good as it could be.

    No to the second question. I'm not the most flexible person naturally, and all the running I do no doubt makes matters worse.

    Sometimes this forum can be useful as a sounding board. There's no doubt that toes pointing downwards will cause a lot of drag and slow you down. And its quite true too that a lot of running will hinder this ability even further (tendons around the ankles and calf flex in completely different ways for running and swimming). Think I just got a light bulb moment- need to look up specific stretches for increased flexibility in this area.

    You might want to consider any hill running you have planned- even greater opposite plantar flexion involved in running up hills.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    zico10 wrote: »
    Yes to the first question, I'm sure they do. I generally swim faster with a pull buoy, so doesn't that mean my kick is not as good as it could be.

    No to the second question. I'm not the most flexible person naturally, and all the running I do no doubt makes matters worse.


    zico its the pb lifting up your hips, making you more streamlined and therefore faster.
    your kick is actually not too bad ( ie your legs are high in the water ) the the more weight you are losing around your waist the more your hips are sinking ( id say you are now about 1.5cm lower with your hips than 3 month ago.
    The interesting thing is your legs are actually staying high despite they actually get skinnier as well but you defo lost more weight around the waist .
    fly kick one arm freestyle stroke drill can work the only thing with you is that you are still very stiff when you swim , it will be a long process (it could go horribly wrong or help but why not trying it )


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    zico10 wrote: »
    I'm definitely not dolphin kicking right either. Saw a member of the elite squad do length after length of it in the NAC, and it made me feel like giving up swimming. But whatever I was doing at the end of the 100s, did make me increase my already incredibly slow stroke rate. I was looking for underwater clips of Michael Klim in that relay, but couldn't find anything.

    I'm barely coordinated enough to manage front crawl, so I don't swim butterfly. I don't see any use for it a tri, so like tumble turning, it's not a priority and I don't think I need to work on it.

    Always dolphin kick off the wall :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    zico its the pb lifting up your hips, making you more streamlined and therefore faster.
    your kick is actually not too bad ( ie your legs are high in the water ) the the more weight you are losing around your waist the more your hips are sinking ( id say you are now about 1.5cm lower with your hips than 3 month ago.
    The interesting thing is your legs are actually staying high despite they actually get skinnier as well but you defo lost more weight around the waist .
    fly kick one arm freestyle stroke drill can work the only thing with you is that you are still very stiff when you swim , it will be a long process (it could go horribly wrong or help but why not trying it )


    But its a common misconception that you *should* be faster with a pull buoy. If you are a top end swimmer you should be slower.

    Triathletes will be faster with a pull buoy but someone like Tango (any maybe you Peter) will be slower.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I used to be faster with a pull buoy. Now a good bit slower. Probably more that I propel myself with my kick...definitely nothing to do with my technique being good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    I used to be faster with a pull buoy. Now a good bit slower. Probably more that I propel myself with my kick...definitely nothing to do with my technique being good.

    Slower with a pull buoy can also be the result of cross over of hands. 12 inches of a broom stick will resolve that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    I used to be faster with a pull buoy. Now a good bit slower. Probably more that I propel myself with my kick...definitely nothing to do with my technique being good.


    people still use pull buoys?!..tut tut

    http://www.blueseventy.co.uk/blogs/stories/14855285-the-core-short-belongs-in-your-swim-bag


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney



    Little bit easier removing a pull buoy than taking off shorts between sets.

    10x200 alt sw/p on 1:50 - alot harder if changing shorts


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    tunney wrote: »
    Little bit easier removing a pull buoy than taking off shorts between sets.

    10x200 alt sw/p on 1:50 - alot harder if changing shorts

    Plus the lifeguard generally kicks me out of the pool when he sees me taking off my shorts :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    tunney wrote: »
    Little bit easier removing a pull buoy than taking off shorts between sets.

    10x200 alt sw/p on 1:50 - alot harder if changing shorts

    Defo not a suitable set
    BTH wrote: »
    Plus the lifeguard generally kicks me out of the pool when he sees me taking off my shorts :)

    I'd kick you out too. Some people would not recover at the thought! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭joey100


    I've seen people use them shorts as their swim shorts. That's what they will wear for the whole session. Anyone know if they are allowed for use in pool tri's? Out of curiosity more than anything.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    joey100 wrote: »
    I've seen people use them shorts as their swim shorts. That's what they will wear for the whole session. Anyone know if they are allowed for use in pool tri's? Out of curiosity more than anything.

    Eh that would be a no.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    joey100 wrote: »
    I've seen people use them shorts as their swim shorts. That's what they will wear for the whole session. Anyone know if they are allowed for use in pool tri's? Out of curiosity more than anything.

    No they are as banned as banned can be.

    In 2004 Ray Darcy signed up to Skerries Tri (when it was a 3dtri race), he was told to do all his swim training using fins. He was delighted with his progress. Race week came along and he tried swimming without them................

    I don't see the point in these shorts - other than helping pi$$ poor swimmers delude themselves into thinking they are competent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    TI allowed them in Joey last year. That might not be the case this year but they were allowed last year.

    If your races are going to be all wetsuit then using the shorts wouldn't be as bad as using fins. I wouldn't advocate it but it's better than using fins.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    pgibbo wrote: »
    TI allowed them in Joey last year. That might not be the case this year but they were allowed last year.

    If your races are going to be all wetsuit then using the shorts wouldn't be as bad as using fins. I wouldn't advocate it but it's better than using fins.

    WHAT?????? They let buoyancy aids in the pull? Or is it a case of the officials being clueless?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    The main training benefit i see with them is practising your kick while your hips are elevated and restricted (exactly like when in a wetsuit)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    tunney wrote: »
    But its a common misconception that you *should* be faster with a pull buoy. If you are a top end swimmer you should be slower.

    Triathletes will be faster with a pull buoy but someone like Tango (any maybe you Peter) will be slower.

    iam way slower without a pb, especially at cruising speed.

    Personally, I do actually think it's not a bad or a good thing to be faster or slower with a pb . ( for a triathlete)
    it tells you many things about your stroke which is great and then one can consider is it worth to adress it ...

    in other words when i see that a guy swims 40 sec faster over 400m in a wetsuit and the wetsuit tt time is where is needs to be iam not too worried about this ,if the wetsuit corrects the problem , great ..
    iam not the one who made up the swim distances and the focus on wetsuits in triathlon , i just use the system we work in. ( and as it is upper arm strenght favors a strong kick and or v good water position )


    in the current system I iam much more worried if a swimmer dosnt get at least 20 sec faster in the wetsuit as this is where Irish people do 90% plus of races in
    At the end what matters is what time you swim in a tri and not in the pool.



    I think the way you look at swim shorts is not correct ,at the same time i totally agree with your flipper explanation if it dosnt work its no good. but if it works its good and we cant say this without trying.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    tunney wrote: »
    WHAT?????? They let buoyancy aids in the pull? Or is it a case of the officials being clueless?

    The person that used them rang TI directly and got the OK off them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    pgibbo wrote: »
    The person that used them rang TI directly and got the OK off them.


    WOW, just WOW. Can you use a motorboat, motorbike and rollerblades???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    pgibbo wrote: »
    The person that used them rang TI directly and WRONGLY got the OK off them.

    ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Sometimes this forum can be useful as a sounding board. There's no doubt that toes pointing downwards will cause a lot of drag and slow you down. And its quite true too that a lot of running will hinder this ability even further (tendons around the ankles and calf flex in completely different ways for running and swimming). Think I just got a light bulb moment- need to look up specific stretches for increased flexibility in this area.

    You might want to consider any hill running you have planned- even greater opposite plantar flexion involved in running up hills.

    Did you mean reconsider?
    peter kern wrote: »
    zico its the pb lifting up your hips, making you more streamlined and therefore faster.
    your kick is actually not too bad ( ie your legs are high in the water ) the the more weight you are losing around your waist the more your hips are sinking ( id say you are now about 1.5cm lower with your hips than 3 month ago.
    The interesting thing is your legs are actually staying high despite they actually get skinnier as well but you defo lost more weight around the waist .
    fly kick one arm freestyle stroke drill can work the only thing with you is that you are still very stiff when you swim , it will be a long process (it could go horribly wrong or help but why not trying it )

    The conversation has moved on from when these posts were made, but for what it's worth;

    The way I look at things is training for tri is always going to be trade off between the three sports. I realise I could be a better swimmer if I shelved cycling and running for a few months. Likewise I'd be a better cyclist or runner if those were all I focussed on. With an IM in September, I can't afford to drop any of them though. So it becomes a question of prioritising between the three.

    Right now the priority is swimming. I'm not deliberately putting on weight to give me the extra buoyancy, but I've no target running or tri races anytime soon, so I'm not targetting my racing weight yet either. In a few months, I'll have to de-prioritise swimming and give greater weight to biking and running. I've no doubt I'll be lighter then, probably more fatigued doing my swim sessions, and no doubt not swimming as well as I might otherwise be. But that's a tradeoff I'll have to make.

    I get what you say Peter about how being more relaxed would be beneficial, but for Kurt Godel I don't think there is any need for me to worry about the effect hill running might have on ankle flexibility. I think the pros of the IMRA races will outweigh the cons.

    My ultimate swim goal by season's end is to be able to swim as fast and comfortably as I possibly can, despite the limitations that being a scrawny runner with skinny legs, inflexible ankles, and toes pointing to the bottom of the pool brings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    peter kern wrote: »
    ...

    They even rang twice to be sure Peter.


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