Swimming for Tri

shotgunmcos

I was going too post on another thread but this could be a good topic.

Primarily set up to support, I'll say one thing first

Never underestimate the natural resourcefulness of people, particularly with a stretchy goal in mind.

First question, if you can barely manage a width of the pool or swim oceans, do you like swimming?

I'm amazed how many triathletes actually don't like swimming. Treating it as a necessary evil. Box ticking aside, if you don't enjoy it, why the hell are you doing it? There are other multi sport races that involve biking and running and no swim or a token splash!

If you do/did like swimming but are just starting out, I urge you to be patient and consistent with it. Learn slowly and learn to feel the stroke. It is one of the most satisfying skills to learn as an adult.

Don't do a drill unless you understand what part of the stroke it is for, how it is supposed to feel. Then, can you pin point that drill in your stroke? Do you notice how it benefits the stroke? Are you practising between lessons?

Does your session involve a half dozen drills, of which you are supposed to wholesale apply to a magically new efficient stroke?

ToTriOrNot

Problem with group sessions is that there is no much time to go over what each individual is doing well or not!

One thing is, swimming in the pool and in open water is very different!! But I have gone from not swimming in the sea, to swim almost 3km in less than a couple of months. Safety first of course, do not swim alone, but get into the open water as soon as possible with experience people. Plenty of meets happening once the "cold" is gone.

I feel however, that as an adult who already knew how to swim, it's very difficult to correct all the bad bits!!!! I am hoping to get more practice and probably 1 on 1 lessons with the coach, also having a partner/ husband/ friend going to the pool/ sea helps a lot..My husband is the driving force behind my new found love for sea swimming!!

rainbow kirby

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

I feel however, that as an adult who already knew how to swim, it's very difficult to correct all the bad bits!!!!

This +1000, I had no coaching at all from age 13-ish until deciding to give triathlon a go at age 29 and I've needed so much stroke correction it's not even funny. I do actually enjoy swimming though, which helps matters...

tunney

rainbow kirby wrote: »

This +1000, I had no coaching at all from age 13-ish until deciding to give triathlon a go at age 29 and I've needed so much stroke correction it's not even funny. I do actually enjoy swimming though, which helps matters...

There is a difference between knowing how to swim and knowing how not to drown.

Most adults can't swim but won't drown (too easily)

Oryx

I did about ten lessons as a kid and took up swimming again 5 years ago. My regret is I did not get enough one on one coaching in the initial stages, so I compounded bad technique which is now very hard to undo. Learn the technique well first, nice and slow as shotgun says, so you have a good foundation.

zico10

I didn't want a new thread for this, so I'll ask here. Has anybody ever used either of these two pieces of kit?

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-booster-paddles.html

or

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-forearm-fulcrum.html

How have you found them? Apart from the strength training benefits of the paddles, would there be much difference between the two? Are they as good as Finis are making them out to be?

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

I didn't want a new thread for this, so I'll ask here. Has anybody ever used either of these two pieces of kit?

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-booster-paddles.html

or

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-forearm-fulcrum.html

How have you found them? Apart from the strength training benefits of the paddles, would there be much difference between the two? Are they as good as Finis are making them out to be?

Used the Forearm Fulcrum, I get the idea of what they are to do, but hated them and found they just annoyed me.

Oryx

Couldnt make much of fulcrums either. I saw little benefit, maybe you have to be strong technically to start with, a friend who is a strong swimmer, reckons they are the best invention ever.

peter kern

fulcrums can be good for some would be total waste for yourself .
the bolster 1 year ago could have been useful for you but given that you have an issue with 3rd phase i would not have recommneded it either .

I know people that like the fulcrum ,i dont like them , I have only recommended them to 2 people and see only a very small niche market for them .

instead of bolster b2race have a better paddle - at least in my mind - name has slipped my mind ( approx 9 cm wide 25 cm long and yellow one end is shaped like a triangle ) and would still allow you to focus on good third phase beside an high elbow

finis makes some really good stuff but both produsts i would call niche products maybe very useful for 10 %

zico10 wrote: »

I didn't want a new thread for this, so I'll ask here. Has anybody ever used either of these two pieces of kit?

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-booster-paddles.html

or

http://www.swimcyclerun.com/swim-accessories/finis-forearm-fulcrum.html

How have you found them? Apart from the strength training benefits of the paddles, would there be much difference between the two? Are they as good as Finis are making them out to be?

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

fulcrums can be good for some would be total waste for yourself .
the bolster 1 year ago could have been useful for you but given that you have an issue with 3rd phase i would not have recommneded it either .

I know people that like the fulcrum ,i dont like them , I have only recommended them to 2 people and see only a very small niche market for them .

instead of bolster b2race have a better paddle - at least in my mind - name has slipped my mind ( approx 9 cm wide 25 cm long and yellow one end is shaped like a triangle ) and would still allow you to focus on good third phase beside an high elbow

finis makes some really good stuff but both produsts i would call niche products maybe very useful for 10 %

You mean the Finis Freestyler. I was thinking of that for Zico as well for some reason.

I have the Freestyler and I think it is a nice paddle, as Peter says helps the 3rd phase, but I also find the timing and glide as well, also the high elbow, all round nice paddle, awkward as can be to touch turn with mind.

MojoMaker

I see a lot of the masters and tri groups using the freestyler paddles, including several in your group(s) Peter, I must try them out.

ToTriOrNot

What tools can be used to avoid over crossing? (I can't see myself, but I have been told by several people that I have an awful overcrossing!!)

I have the Speedo Tech Paddles, and I must say it's my least favorite toy in the kit bag!!!

tunney

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

What tools can be used to avoid over crossing? (I can't see myself, but I have been told by several people that I have an awful overcrossing!!)

I have the Speedo Tech Paddles, and I must say it's my least favorite toy in the kit bag!!!

Paddles, by and large, are not for the newbie swimmer.

A length of about 12 inches of a broom handle. Swim with one hand always on the very end of the pole. Hold it until the other hand grabs it at the other very end, repeat.

ToTriOrNot

tunney wrote: »

Paddles, by and large, are not for the newbie swimmer.

A length of about 12 inches of a broom handle. Swim with one hand always on the very end of the pole. Hold it until the other hand grabs it at the other very end, repeat.

hehehe, they just would love it if I turn up to the pool with a broom handle and try to swim with it!!!

Also, define newbie swimmer??

tunney

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

hehehe, they just would love it if I turn up to the pool with a broom handle and try to swim with it!!!

Also, define newbie swimmer??

will rephrase "a swimmer with poor technique"

Why not? 12 inches of a broom handle or a bit of plastic piping. bet you the signs don't say
"No diving
no petting
no running
no mini broom handles"

ToTriOrNot

tunney wrote: »

will rephrase "a swimmer with poor technique"

That's more accurate, thanks!!!

Oryx

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

hehehe, they just would love it if I turn up to the pool with a broom handle and try to swim with it!!!

Also, define newbie swimmer??

I guarantee you my bright pink snorkel, and tying my feet together with rubber gets worse looks than a broomstick would.

Tell the kids in the pool youre a halloween witch on a day off.

ToTriOrNot

Oryx wrote: »

I guarantee you my bright pink snorkel, and tying my feet together with rubber gets worse looks than a broomstick would.

Tell the kids in the pool youre a halloween witch on a day off.

Witches don't take the day off!!!

I did struggle with my bilateral breathing, but seem to have got the hang of it now, I even enjoy breathing every 4 or 5..
Tell me more about your pink snorkel

Oryx

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

Witches don't take the day off!!!

I did struggle with my bilateral breathing, but seem to have got the hang of it now, I even enjoy breathing every 4 or 5..
Tell me more about your pink snorkel

Its used for drills, so you can focus on what you are doing rather than the need to take a breath.

ToTriOrNot

Oryx wrote: »

Its used for drills, so you can focus on what you are doing rather than the need to take a breath.

I get you, so you get your technique right first, and then you just add the breathing?

Really need to get some one on one soon, or even a video analysis to see where I am going wrong...I know I have poor technique, and that it will take time to correct, but as I can't see what I am doing wrong, it's very difficult just to do the drills and expect the issues will correct themselves!
Any recommendations for video analysis (if it's not much to ask Munster side, rather than Dublin)

pgibbo

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

I get you, so you get your technique right first, and then you just add the breathing?

Really need to get some one on one soon, or even a video analysis to see where I am going wrong...I know I have poor technique, and that it will take time to correct, but as I can't see what I am doing wrong, it's very difficult just to do the drills and expect the issues will correct themselves!
Any recommendations for video analysis (if it's not much to ask Munster side, rather than Dublin)

I don't know of anywhere in Munster but it might be worth checking with STL on gotri.ie. I believe they have a swim flume in Shannon now

gerfmurphy

I'm looking for video analysis and 121 in dublin / Meath if anyone can recommend anyone

pgibbo

gerfmurphy wrote: »

I'm looking for video analysis and 121 in dublin / Meath if anyone can recommend anyone

I've no personal experience but a few people on here have used Eanna in Base2Race for analysis and 1-2-1.

Personally if I were on the East coast I'd be looking to attend some of the sessions hosted by interested, Peter Kern or Tango

mossym

there is a swim clinic held in athlone, day long, video analysis of your swim, drills training, individual feedback and recommended improvement work. i did it last year and was a big help. not sure if it is still going but i have the contact details somewhere

Oryx

mossym wrote: »

there is a swim clinic held in athlone, day long, video analysis of your swim, drills training, individual feedback and recommended improvement work. i did it last year and was a big help. not sure if it is still going but i have the contact details somewhere

I did that too, found it very good, but I would like to have been closer to Athlone to get some follow up after a few weeks.

Mr Tango

tunney wrote: »

You mean the Finis Freestyler. I was thinking of that for Zico as well for some reason.

I have the Freestyler and I think it is a nice paddle, as Peter says helps the 3rd phase, but I also find the timing and glide as well, also the high elbow, all round nice paddle, awkward as can be to touch turn with mind.

Please learn to tumble turn!!!!!!! Ur pool times will improve (incentive)

peter kern

I think the best tool to prevent overcrossinging is to use your brain and think what you are doing (Just in case as some will think iam trying to make fun i really mean it .


you have to define cross over at arm entry or during the stroke .
if under the water I would stay away from tyr catalyst paddles then . and the finis agility paddles could help as you will almost lose them if you come to a too akward positon (which most people achieve when they cross over
a good drill could be using the rope of the pool and do a 1 arm backstroke drill using one arm to propel yourself through the water .



as for paddles for technique .....
its an very interesting subject some very good coaches love them ( i guess at the most exteme spectrum brett sutton for pro paddles and some verg good coaches dislike them ( garry rodriguez for instance)

I understand why sutton likes them as he has a way to make it work for his poor technique swimmer . So i think yes thers is a injury risk but you can find ways around ( you have to eliminate start stop swimming ) and paddles can give good feedback .
people shoud start to use small paddles ( sometimes it has to be paddles for 8-9 year olds for adults and adapt to them slowly.

at the same time is somebody hates to swim with paddles dont make your live a missery becasue you think you have to use them ( or maybe try other paddles )

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

What tools can be used to avoid over crossing? (I can't see myself, but I have been told by several people that I have an awful overcrossing!!)

I have the Speedo Tech Paddles, and I must say it's my least favorite toy in the kit bag!!!

SucCes09

This has probably been brought up before, but I would be interested in hearing more about whether kicking should be "active" for those looking to do IM distance swimming. I typically just drag my feet behind, and only kick when breathing to keep the momentum. Mr Tango was kind enough to share some sets with me, and there was a set in most of the drills that was focused on the kick aspect.

BTH

Mr Tango wrote: »

Please learn to tumble turn!!!!!!! Ur pool times will improve (incentive)

I've learned to tumble. But I'm still quicker when I don't tumble. And what's pool times got to do with triathlon racing?

peter kern

BTH wrote: »

I've learned to tumble. But I'm still quicker when I don't tumble. And what's pool times got to do with triathlon racing?

in your case not going swimmng seems to have a lot to do with your results ;-)

tunney

BTH wrote: »

I've learned to tumble. But I'm still quicker when I don't tumble. And what's pool times got to do with triathlon racing?

Less recovery with a tumble so more accurate of OW swimming