Poppy

Karl Stein · 29-10-2014 04:43PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you dispute that the MAJORITY of soldiers who have served in the BA have served with dignity and great conduct?

Isn't that what people say to defend the church when abuser priests are talked about?

Skylinehead · 29-10-2014 04:44PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I mean the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS that died, I mean the MILLIONS who have served and done good. You can harp on about the government, the royal family and soldiers who did things in far flung places hundreds of years ago but the fact remains that the MAJORITY of soldiers who have and do serve in the BA are good honest people.

First of all it's only a few people, then it's hundreds of years ago. Think you'll find some pretty bad stuff in the last decade alone...

Nodin · 29-10-2014 04:45PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Oh i read them last year, and the year before, and the year before :rolleyes:

Strange that you're going on about hundreds of years ago and a "few" then.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So because they served in the army they were "evil" in your eyes by proxy?

They were serving an evil cause. Certain of them would have been required to supress the local population and thus been directly engaged. Countries occupied without consent are not held by hugs and kisses, they are held by violence and the fear of violence.

Beefy78 · 29-10-2014 04:46PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Just to let ye know that's it's the tenth anniversary of me first saying on this site that the poppy is a load of triumphalist b*llocks.

If your sign-up date here is right then it can only be the ninth anniversary

AudreyHepburn · 29-10-2014 04:50PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Isn't that what people say to defend the church when abuser priests are talked about?

It is and they would be right.

You cannot crucify the many for the deeds of the few.

Cantremember · 29-10-2014 04:52PM

Poopy

Nodin · 29-10-2014 04:52PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It is and they would be right.

You cannot crucify the many for the deeds of the few.

...but here it's the deeds of the many performed for an evil cause that are the issue.

Berserker · 29-10-2014 04:54PM

FTA69 wrote: »

It's a million times worse here. You can't go for a sh*t in England for the next two odd months without someone trying to slap a poppy on you for the occasion.

Really? I spend an awful lot of time in England, London in particular and whilst I see people selling them, I have never felt forced to buy one. Personally, I think that is really nice to have a day of remembrance for them and what they did for us.

MRnotlob606 · 29-10-2014 04:54PM

paulieG89 wrote: »

Nobody died for me !!

They died for themselves and their families. My own view is (god be good) may anybody that fought against the Germans in either war burn in the deepest depths of hell.

So my Grandfather should burn in Hell ?Cheers !

cajonlardo · 29-10-2014 04:55PM

Nodin wrote: »

Whats this 'deeds of a few'?The Empire was not created and maintained by a "few bad eggs". It was done by threat and force for hundreds of years across the globe.

You are correct.

But Mrs Byrne or Kelly who wants to wear a poppy to remind people her son or husband fought their way through hell in order to shut down the death camps should be left in peace to do as she sees fit. She committed no war crimes nor done any harm. Or Johnny Old Guy who still grieves for his school mate that he last saw in Tunisia or a hundred thousand others whose sacrifice may seem stupid to modern people. Most of them were not terrorists. Most supported no empire. Most only done their very best and ultimately learned they were only human and paid a high price.

I certainly wish the men from my family did not go to war.
The cost was far too high and had to be paid by those they left behind. A Grandmother who was left without her war pension, father and uncles and aunts that the state wanted to take into care because their was no money at home to feed them.But then I am left with a question. If they did not stop the Nazis - who would?

FTA69 · 29-10-2014 04:57PM

Berserker wrote: »

Really? I spend an awful lot of time in England, London in particular and whilst I see people selling them, I have never felt forced to buy one. Personally, I think that is really nice to have a day of remembrance for them and what they did for us.

I mean the sense that literally everyone on the box is wearing one and every year without fail there's some sort of scandal over someone who got on the telly without having one on or some nonsense. Coupled with the constant "Heroes" bullsh*t narrative that gets shoved down our throat on a continuous loop.

Personally I don't think there's anything particularly heroic about the British Army's actions in Ireland, Malaysia and umpteen other countries but it's pretty much unacceptable to point that out.

Nodin · 29-10-2014 04:59PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

You are correct.

But Mrs Byrne or Kelly who wants to wear a poppy to remind people her son or husband fought their way through hell in order to shut down the death camps should be left in peace to do as she sees fit...................

Yet that poppy does not symbolise that alone, wherein lies the problem. In this thread already we have people defending the Empire, which - certainly with regards to WW1 - did to far more peoples what the Germans did the Belgians and French.

Karl Stein · 29-10-2014 05:00PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

fought their way through hell in order to shut down the death camps

WWII wasn't fought to rescue people from the concentration camps.

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2014 05:01PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Isn't that what people say to defend the church when abuser priests are talked about?

Do you condemn all priests over the actions of a few?

Karl Stein · 29-10-2014 05:03PM

FTA69 wrote: »

constant "Heroes" bullsh*t narrative that gets shoved down our throat on a continuous loop.

Schmaltzy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUlvdzf1FNc

Nodin · 29-10-2014 05:03PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you condemn all priests?

All priests weren't tasked with molesting children, afaik.

Nodin · 29-10-2014 05:04PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Schmaltzy.

...good jaysus............

preston johnny · 29-10-2014 05:05PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Just to let ye know that's it's the tenth anniversary of me first saying on this site that the poppy is a load of triumphalist b*llocks.

Do you want a fcuking medal?

Karl Stein · 29-10-2014 05:05PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you condemn all priests over the actions of a few?

I condemn a corrupt institution that enabled abusive priests and those individuals who engaged in it. There were few in the Church that were unaware about what was going on so everyone was complicit.

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2014 05:06PM

Nodin wrote: »

All priests weren't tasked with molesting children, afaik.

But some did so going by your rules we should tar them all right?

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2014 05:07PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

I condemn a corrupt institution that enabled abusive priests and those individuals who engaged in it. There were few in the Church that were unaware about what was going on so everyone was complicit.

You can prove this of course?

Beefy78 · 29-10-2014 05:07PM

Berserker wrote: »

Really? I spend an awful lot of time in England, London in particular and whilst I see people selling them, I have never felt forced to buy one. Personally, I think that is really nice to have a day of remembrance for them and what they did for us.

That's because it doesn't happen. I was in London and Essex this weekend, saw plenty of people selling, saw a few people buying but this expectation or pressure to wear one simply doesn't exist.

Nodin · 29-10-2014 05:08PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But some did so going by your rules we should tar them all right?

Let's try this again.

The British Army was tasked with maintaining the British Empire.

The British Empire, like all Empires, was an evil thing. It was racist, occasionally sectarian, exploitative, deliberately divisive, harsh and violent.

Are you getting it now?

Berserker · 29-10-2014 05:09PM

FTA69 wrote: »

I mean the sense that literally everyone on the box is wearing one and every year

Coupled with the constant "Heroes" bullsh*t narrative that gets shoved down our throat on a continuous loop.

Are British people not allowed to display pride in relation to the work that their military forces do and have done? You might not agree with them but surely you cannot seriously be suggesting that they cannot do so, in their own country?

I mean, if the Republican movement had something similar here, celebrating the acts of republicanism in 1916 and decades gone by, as suggested by SF recently, I would not agree with it but I would respect the right of people to do so here in the RoI.

Beefy78 wrote: »

That's because it doesn't happen. I was in London and Essex this weekend, saw plenty of people selling, saw a few people buying but this expectation or pressure to wear one simply doesn't exist.

I know. I agree with you. My post was aimed at a poster suggesting that people were forcing him to buy one. They are openly available to buy but you are not forced to buy one, as you say.

Smiles35 · 29-10-2014 05:10PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But some did so going by your rules we should tar them all right?

Would you be happy to mark fallen priest day then?

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2014 05:12PM

Nodin wrote: »

Let's try this again.

The British Army was tasked with maintaining the British Empire.

The British Empire, like all Empires, was an evil thing. It was racist, occasionally sectarian, exploitative, deliberately divisive, harsh and violent.

Are you getting it now?

Was being the operative word.

So why should ALL members of the BA be condemned because of this? You are still trying to claim that all members of the BA are evil by proxy because of what happened in the past ergo you must think all priests are bad because of what happened in the past?

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2014 05:13PM

Noblong wrote: »

Would you be happy to mark fallen priest day then?

Nope

But if they had one i wouldn't whinge about it every 12 months when some people did want to remember them. That's their choice.

statesaver · 29-10-2014 05:16PM

Priests and poppies, for fúck sake people

Karl Stein · 29-10-2014 05:20PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

i wouldn't whinge about it every 12 months

You're the one doing the whinging. You're whinging about people who point out the truths of the British forces and their misdeeds and are trying to downplay them.

Well done.

Nodin · 29-10-2014 05:20PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Was being the operative word.

So why should ALL members of the BA be condemned because of this?

Well, theres nothing to celebrate, more to the point. They fought and died in an evil cause. We don't celebrate the Russians that occupied parts of Europe after WWII, we don't celebrate the Germans, why should we make an exception for the British?

Poppy

Comments