More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

Dan_Solo · 21-10-2014 10:58AM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Probably related to the membership of IRA charges?

I suppose it must be. An awfully weak tie in though obviously designed to get the T word into the statement as if sexual abuse wasn't enough to get the seriousness conveyed.

K-9 · 21-10-2014 12:20PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

That's if the state authorities, particularly the RUC, would have given much of a shit about a Fenian girl related to PIRA members.

This was the late 90's, up to 2006, people had more knowledge and awareness of sex abuse as the church scandals came out.

As Dennis Bradley said, the IRA should have had the cop to know that they just couldn't handle this. It's a "machismo" organisation by its very nature, in no way suitable to cases like this, sure what punishments could they hand out?

Really, was it that hard to just admit "guys, this just isn't within our power to do anything about", leave it to health and justice services that are experts in this area, with funding and knowledge to go with it, even then they often feck it up. Politics was always going to come into it, but at least make sure she got the support from mental health services.

This is where SF handled this wrongly, they should have come straight out with it, all right they'd look hypocritical as quotes would be dragged up about stuff they said about the Church and state authorities, but it would be far better than playing politics with it as they are doing.

tipptom · 21-10-2014 12:54PM

What chance has the PP now of going after the rapist of Maria Cahill after the media circus that has being unleashed by the the media and political opponents of SF and GA and her alleged rapist being named on all papers and social media including this one.

This all seemed like an opportunity for Michael Martin,Enda Kenny,the Sunday Independant and Peter Robinson to attack a party that's soaring in the polls rather than imprison a rapist and if they had any morals they would have assisted her without prejudicing the trial with media attention for themselves and their party the case in to getting her alleged rapist in to court and then the story would have unfolded with Gerry Adams role in this, where it should have been,in court with a rapist on trial.

Creative Juices · 21-10-2014 01:15PM

The bottom line which some reactive posters are failing to consider is whether SF will do better in 2016 with or without Adams. I know SF will do well in 2016 but how well.
I reckon SF could get well over 20 seats in 2016 with Adams. Without Adams I reckon the sky is the limit. I am only one vote but I would definitely vote for a SF candidate if Mary Lou was in charge. My perception of Adams could be completely wrong but that is irrelevant, perception wins and loses elections.

Winty · 21-10-2014 01:48PM

tipptom wrote: »

What chance has the PP now of going after the rapist of Maria Cahill after the media circus that has being unleashed by the the media and political opponents of SF and GA and her alleged rapist being named on all papers and social media including this one.

This all seemed like an opportunity for Michael Martin,Enda Kenny,the Sunday Independant and Peter Robinson to attack a party that's soaring in the polls rather than imprison a rapist and if they had any morals they would have assisted her without prejudicing the trial with media attention for themselves and their party the case in to getting her alleged rapist in to court and then the story would have unfolded with Gerry Adams role in this, where it should have been,in court with a rapist on trial.

I like your use of words and how you make poor Gerry into the victim.

Dan_Solo · 21-10-2014 02:22PM

Winty wrote: »

I like your use of words and how you make poor Gerry into the victim.

He most certainly is A victim of a trial by media and the sh1t scared establishment parties.
Nobody said he was the ONLY victim in this case, but you probably knew that so are just carefully phrasing things to make a non-existent point.

Godge · 21-10-2014 03:22PM

tipptom wrote: »

What chance has the PP now of going after the rapist of Maria Cahill after the media circus that has being unleashed by the the media and political opponents of SF and GA and her alleged rapist being named on all papers and social media including this one.

This all seemed like an opportunity for Michael Martin,Enda Kenny,the Sunday Independant and Peter Robinson to attack a party that's soaring in the polls rather than imprison a rapist and if they had any morals they would have assisted her without prejudicing the trial with media attention for themselves and their party the case in to getting her alleged rapist in to court and then the story would have unfolded with Gerry Adams role in this, where it should have been,in court with a rapist on trial.

Actually, if the members of the kangaroo court who are still alive were to come forward and give evidence, which they haven't to date, then there is every chance a conviction could be achieved. SF/IRA have been playing cloak and dagger with this investigation, in the full glare of publicity they have no option but to tell their members to co-operate.

Winty · 21-10-2014 03:37PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

He most certainly is A victim of a trial by media and the sh1t scared establishment parties.
Nobody said he was the ONLY victim in this case, but you probably knew that so are just carefully phrasing things to make a non-existent point.

How is Gerry a victim? He lied to everyone and got caught and you think he is a victim!

Poor Gerry

Maybe a walk along a beach in Louth would help, I know he has a favourite

Karl Stein · 21-10-2014 05:00PM

MouseTail wrote: »

that sounds eerily similar to the Church apologists who distracted from the emerging scandal over the cover up of child sexual abuse by pointing to 'all the good we did'.

I was specifically referring to the erroneous and reductive claims about various organisations. I couldn't care less which organisation an individual who committed sex offences was in - they're all equally reprehensible in my view.

I'd be delighted to see anyone who was subject to sexual offences get justice and see anyone who perpetrated these crimes being dragged before the courts.

Godge · 21-10-2014 05:21PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

He most certainly is A victim of a trial by media and the sh1t scared establishment parties.
Nobody said he was the ONLY victim in this case, but you probably knew that so are just carefully phrasing things to make a non-existent point.

Adams is not a victim of this and will never be a victim. I hope his political career is a victim of it though, but he will not suffer like a victim of child sexual abuse.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/questions-for-gerry-adams-and-sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-answer-in-response-to-ma%C3%ADria-cahill-1.1970477

"Adams’s claim that there was “absolutely no cover up by Sinn Féin at any level”, is worthy of the most cynical bishop. It appears to be based on the fact that the IRA came to accept that she had indeed been abused. But its response was not to assist in bringing the culprit to some external forum of justice, or to counsel and assist the victim, but to offer to shoot him. That way the organisation wouldn’t have to face the opprobrium of guilt by public association or suggestions of tacit complicity. No cover up? That Adams’s party colleagues should selectively accept some of what Cahill claims but not any imputation against their leader’s word is hardly surprising. They all have form in this regard, not least in their loyalty to his insistence that he was never in the IRA. But being willing to ask tough questions of your own leader, demonstrating that you are not just dupes of the Sinn Féin machine, may be as important in making the party a credible force for government as any airbrushing of a paramilitary past"

Happyman42 · 21-10-2014 06:09PM

But being willing to ask tough questions of your own leader, demonstrating that you are not just dupes of xxxxx xxx machine, /QUOTE]

Oh yeh, we see party members doing that all the time in FF, FG, Lab, DUP, UUP etc etc. :rolleyes:
Jaysus H! Talk about cheap journalistic tripe!

Godge · 21-10-2014 06:28PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Oh yeh, we see party members doing that all the time in FF, FG, Lab, DUP, UUP etc etc. :rolleyes:
Jaysus H! Talk about cheap journalistic tripe!

I can tell you this much, not one other party leader would have lasted five minutes if they had taken 20 years to go to the police about their child-abusing brother.

porsche959 · 21-10-2014 07:40PM

Godge wrote: »

I can tell you this much, not one other party leader would have lasted five minutes if they had taken 20 years to go to the police about their child-abusing brother.

You're parrotting almost verbatim what the opportunist Enda Kenny said in the Dail earlier, a guy that sat in the Dail for forty years and never heard a word about abuses in residential care homes until 2009. A guy that leaks personal communications relating to his own TD's.

The three wise monkeys springs to mind, maybe Enda is the forth monkey who heard of evil only when he thought he could exploit it for political reasons.

michael999999 · 21-10-2014 07:44PM

porsche959 wrote: »

You're parrotting almost verbatim what the opportunist Enda Kenny said in the Dail earlier, a guy that sat in the Dail for forty years and never heard a word about abuses in residential care homes until 2009.

The three wise monkeys springs to mind, maybe Enda is the forth monkey who heard of evil only when he thought he could exploit it for political reasons.

And Michael Martin staring across the Dail for decades, also seemingly oblivious to what was going on!

porsche959 · 21-10-2014 07:59PM

michael999999 wrote: »

And Michael Martin staring across the Dail for decades, also seemingly oblivious to what was going on!

No party leader could last five seconds if he was part of a Cabinet that drove the economy into the rocks, necessitating IMF bailout! Except, miraculously, Michael did.

michael999999 · 21-10-2014 08:09PM

porsche959 wrote: »

No party leader could last five seconds if he was part of a Cabinet that drove the economy into the rocks, necessitating IMF bailout! Except, miraculously, Michael did.

He can afford to retire early. All that developers money that went into he's wife's account must be racking up interest!

yipeeeee · 21-10-2014 08:31PM

How many of those in the dail knew what the church was doing for years and said nothing??

walshb · 21-10-2014 08:55PM

I have to agree with Enda. If this was any other party the leader would be gone. The whole innocent until proven guilty notwithstanding.

Happyman42 · 21-10-2014 09:45PM

walshb wrote: »

I have to agree with Enda. If this was any other party the leader would be gone. The whole innocent until proven guilty notwithstanding.

Generally when a politician resigns, it turns out that they are in fact guilty of the allegations. I don't see why Gerry should resign his position on foot of allegations that have turned out to be false or unproven. 'membership, Jean McConville etc etc'. Why should somebody succumb to allegations, that makes a nonsense of democracy.
In my world the onus is on the accuser to prove the allegation.

K-9 · 21-10-2014 10:20PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Generally when a politician resigns, it turns out that they are in fact guilty of the allegations. I don't see why Gerry should resign his position on foot of allegations that have turned out to be false or unproven. 'membership, Jean McConville etc etc'. Why should somebody succumb to allegations, that makes a nonsense of democracy.
In my world the onus is on the accuser to prove the allegation.

Second sex abuse case is a bit careless all right.

Happyman42 · 21-10-2014 10:27PM

K-9 wrote: »

Second sex abuse case is a bit careless all right.

Cyclical allegations are suspicious and must be treated with care by all democrats.
You only have to look casually around these boards to see that there are those who have wet dreams about catching this particular man on something.
Maybe they will go after him on his taxes like Al Capone.

_Kaiser_ · 21-10-2014 10:27PM

Whatever about the real story here, I fail to see why it isn't being dealt with through normal channels like any other case/accusation of this type.

Given what we know of FF and FG it won't surprise me if it turns out to be a smear campaign as a reaction to SF's rise in the polls.

Enda himself has been involved in more than a few scandals in the last 24 months alone - to have him pontificating about leaders going is more than a tad ironic

K-9 · 21-10-2014 10:32PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Cyclical allegations are suspicious and must be treated with care by all democrats.
You only have to look casually around these boards to see that there are those who have wet dreams about catching this particular man on something.
Maybe they will go after him on his taxes like Al Capone.

Well, Mr Adams had some problems with his mature recollection then, so maybe his memory has improved in the interim, no notes or records and all!

Godge · 21-10-2014 10:32PM

yipeeeee wrote: »

How many of those in the dail knew what the church was doing for years and said nothing??

porsche959 wrote: »

No party leader could last five seconds if he was part of a Cabinet that drove the economy into the rocks, necessitating IMF bailout! Except, miraculously, Michael did.

The whataboutery brigade are out in force tonight, Gerry must be in real trouble.

oscarBravo · 21-10-2014 10:33PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maybe they will go after him on his taxes like Al Capone.

I'm not sure what's funnier - the implication that poor old Al was unjustly hounded, or the implication that Gerry is a tax evader.

_Kaiser_ · 21-10-2014 10:34PM

Godge wrote: »

The whataboutery brigade are out in force tonight, Gerry must be in real trouble.

I think you'll find it's more the old saying about people in glass houses...

Godge · 21-10-2014 10:36PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Whatever about the real story here, I fail to see why it isn't being dealt with through normal channels like any other case/accusation of this type.

Given what we know of FF and FG it won't surprise me if it turns out to be a smear campaign as a reaction to SF's rise in the polls.

Enda himself has been involved in more than a few scandals in the last 24 months alone - to have him pontificating about leaders going is more than a tad ironic

Alan Shatter didn't wait for a case against him to be proved. Neither did Charlie Haughey, or Ray Burke, or Brian Cowen or Albert Reynolds.

Some of them were honourable men, some dishonourable, but they all resigned before there was a guilty verdict in a criminal case. Can we expect the same from Gerry or will the Dear Leader' apologists still cling to the thinnest of lifelines that he has never been convicted of anything?

Godge · 21-10-2014 10:37PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure what's funnier - the implication that poor old Al was unjustly hounded, or the implication that Gerry is a tax evader.

Think he owes some fuel taxes, diesel or something.

RandomName2 · 21-10-2014 10:44PM

Godge wrote: »

The whataboutery brigade are out in force tonight, Gerry must be in real trouble.

He won't be among regular SF supporters. Like Adams himself in relation to his denial of being in the IRA, they've invested too much to go back. If he resigns it will be of his own doing, for the "good of the party". Will that happen here? Unlikely. Sex abuse and its cover up is rather low level in terms of what we've seen to date. It would have to be a recent scandal, as in something that happened after the Good Friday Agreement (and I don't mean something overly murky like the torture and assassination of Denis Donaldson). It would have to be something like taxes. Which would be hilarious, all things considered.

Happyman42 · 21-10-2014 10:45PM

How many TD's would be left in the Dail if they resigned anytime somebody made an allegation?

More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

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