Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

1…1011131516…57

Comments

  • #362
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That isn't a source for your claim 'That SF had the tapes'.
    She doesn't say SF had them, just that they exist.


    The simplest explanation (Occam's Razor), in the absence of any other evidence, is that someone else at the meeting taped the meeting i.e. a member of the SF/IRA apparatus. If there is another more complicated explanation, please provide evidence.

    We don't need to argue about it so long as we both agree that whoever has the tapes should release them.


  • #363
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Godge wrote: »
    We don't need to argue about it so long as we both agree that whoever has the tapes should release them.
    We would all have to agree that these tapes you are convinced "should be released" exist in the first place.


  • #364
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    You told me SF and the IRA had the tapes though .... Occam's Razor doesnt mean the simplest explanation btw. It states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. You are making quite a lot of assumptions.


    Godge wrote: »
    The simplest explanation (Occam's Razor), in the absence of any other evidence, is that someone else at the meeting taped the meeting i.e. a member of the SF/IRA apparatus. If there is another more complicated explanation, please provide evidence.

    We don't need to argue about it so long as we both agree that whoever has the tapes should release them.


  • #365
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    We would all have to agree that these tapes you are convinced "should be released" exist in the first place.

    Assuming they exist, can we all agree they should be released? It would clear up quickly who is lying, wouldn't it.


  • #366
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Godge wrote: »
    Assuming they exist, can we all agree they should be released? It would clear up quickly who is lying, wouldn't it.
    I'll agree to that sure.
    Not sure why anybody here's opinion on it makes a blind bit of difference to the facts available we are discussing though.


  • Advertisement
  • #367
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-believes-more-cases-to-follow-alleged-republican-cover-up-of-sex-abuse-1.1970238

    I just hope Enda Kenny is wrong and Mairia Cahill is not the tip of the iceberg but the whole story.

    As much as I dislike SF/IRA, I do not want to see them being brought down because children were sexually abused. Please let there be no more.


  • #368
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,906 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Godge wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-believes-more-cases-to-follow-alleged-republican-cover-up-of-sex-abuse-1.1970238

    I just hope Enda Kenny is wrong and Mairia Cahill is not the tip of the iceberg but the whole story.

    As much as I dislike SF/IRA, I do not want to see them being brought down because children were sexually abused. Please let there be no more.

    Sinn Fein


    Up there with the catholic church imo.


  • #369
    Xenophile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,073 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    davycc wrote: »
    The humour is strong in this one! Ever considered a journalism career with the indo?

    Thanks for the compliment but I really am an Irish Times man myself.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



  • #370
    BlutendeRabe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭BlutendeRabe


    Godge wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-believes-more-cases-to-follow-alleged-republican-cover-up-of-sex-abuse-1.1970238

    I just hope Enda Kenny is wrong and Mairia Cahill is not the tip of the iceberg but the whole story.

    As much as I dislike SF/IRA, I do not want to see them being brought down because children were sexually abused. Please let there be no more.

    Its an ugly case from a time where people believed circumstances dictated certain courses of action (e.g. never going to the RUC) had to be followed.
    Reminds me a bit of this case
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/breige-meehan-handed-suspended-sentence-for-child-cruelty-29398088.html

    Would be surprised if this brought the beard down however. He's a knack for political survival. Will be interesting to see if there are any further developments (and there will be IMO)


  • #371
    joe swanson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    The shinners really being shown up for what they are these last few days. Mind you it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

    I don't think however Sinn Fein "supporters" are going to be put off if years of murder and terrorism doesn't.


  • Advertisement
  • #372
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    gallag wrote: »
    yet the IRA/SF Killed more catholics/nationalists than the UVF, UDA

    Untrue. Loyalists killed over 800 innocent Catholic civilians. Loyalist murder gangs killed more of each other feuding than they did Republicans.
    K-9 wrote: »
    Policing is one of the first victims in a war situation but the heads of the IRA should have had the cop to know that they couldn't possibly deal with sex abuse cases. That was for the state authorities to deal with, and even they, with far more resources and knowledge, often got it wrong.

    That's if the state authorities, particularly the RUC, would have given much of a shit about a Fenian girl related to PIRA members.


  • #373
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    joe swanson wrote: »
    I don't think however Sinn Fein "supporters" are going to be put off if years of murder and terrorism doesn't.
    Utterly random inverted comma attack there.
    Do you think SF don't have any actual, real, supporters? It's all just the IRA fixing the ballots and opinion polls, eh?


  • #374
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    Untrue. Loyalists killed over 800 innocent Catholic civilians. Loyalist murder gangs killed more of each other feuding than they did Republicans.



    That's if the state authorities, particularly the RUC, would have given much of a shit about a Fenian girl related to PIRA members.

    What I said is explicitly true!

    The IRA killed more catholics than the UVF! !

    The IRA killed more catholics than the UDA!

    The IRA killed more catholics than the British Security Forces! !

    if you want to play silly buggers and add them all together to make yourself feel better about the carnage the IRA inflicted on the catholics in N.I then work away bit you should really be asking yourself if you want to do mental gymnastics to excuse the IRA for being a bigger blight on nationalists than the UVF ffs.

    let that sink in, the absolute animals of the UVF never killed as many catholics as the IRA. fact. yet you will completley blank that FACT and go on the defensive. The difference between you and me is that you don't need to convince me that loyalist paramilitarys were a blight on my community, I know that, I hate them, mabey someday you will see these "protectors" of your community for what they were.


  • #375
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    joe swanson wrote: »
    I don't think however Sinn Fein "supporters" are going to be put off if years of murder and terrorism doesn't.

    Sinn Fein support increased dramatically AFTER the ceasefire. So, Sinn Fein voters do not necessarily validate the Provo's actions. Some agree with the Provo's campaign, others don't. Some weren't even born in 1994! Others agreed with Provos actions at the time but have moved on. (Maybe you should try moving on too?) Inconvenient for the Cruiserite/Sindo faction perhaps, but there you go.


  • #376
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    On Prime time now. Someone from Labour on giving their opinion about a rape case in Northern Ireland which they know even less about than they do about rape and child abuse cases in Southern Ireland where they have no opinion on.


  • #377
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    Morris is probably sitting back laughing at all of this. The media circus all but puts an end to any possibility of there ever being a fair trial or of anyone being convicted for this crime. He gets off pretty much scot free (not that I think justice has anything to do with any of this). She's not going to get what she wants from this trial by media, all it's going to do is ensure that her abuser never sees jail and give cynical politicians and journalists a chance to use her case as a political weapon and capitalize off of the current appetite for justice for historical crimes. Symptomatic of a wider problem pertaining to people's attitudes towards sexual abuse victims in this country. People can't even deal with the problem in a reasonable way and follow due process. Instead, the whole thing is sensationalized and turned into a spectacle.


  • #378
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Lord Trollington wrote: »
    On Prime time now. Someone from Labour on giving their opinion about a rape case in Northern Ireland which they know even less about than they do about rape and child abuse cases in Southern Ireland where they have no opinion on.


    Ivana Bacik it was. Very credible sounding, has worked with abused women, so knows what she is talking about unlike the SF/IRA clone who parroted the party line.

    Ivana would know a lot more than men on internet boards though.


  • #379
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    gallag wrote: »
    The IRA killed more catholics than the UVF! !

    The IRA killed more catholics than the UDA!

    The IRA killed more catholics than the British Security Forces!

    Creating sandboxes where you separate the UVF/UDA/RHC/FRU killers (and those who colluded with them in the UDR/BA/RUC) is about as disingenuous as if I were to say that IRA volunteers with fair hair killed less Catholics than the UVF.
    mabey someday you will see these "protectors" of your community for what they were.

    Let there be no doubt about one thing: it was guns in the hands of Republicans that put a stop to this union/loyalist destruction. There were thousands of Nationalist refugees who fled across the border to escape Loyalist terror.

    I'm sure that many many Nationalists who grew up during those times would have views in opposition to yours.


  • #380
    MouseTail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    Let there be no doubt about one thing: it was guns in the hands of Republicans that put a stop to this union/loyalist destruction. There were thousands of Nationalist refugees who fled across the border to escape Loyalist terror.

    I'm sure that many many Nationalists who grew up during those times would have views in opposition to yours.

    that sounds eerily similar to the Church apologists who distracted from the emerging scandal over the cover up of child sexual abuse by pointing to 'all the good we did'.


  • #381
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Whats more disappointing for me in this case is the way that damn fine politicians such as Mary Lou McDonald display utter blind loyalty to Gerry for everything he is accused of. For many people, Gerry is a busted flush but instead of pushing SF to power, the 'cleaner' SF politicians spend all their time defending him and his shady past. He brings them all down with him.


  • Advertisement
  • #382
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Whats more disappointing for me in this case is the way that damn fine politicians such as Mary Lou McDonald display utter blind loyalty to Gerry for everything he is accused of. For many people, Gerry is a busted flush but instead of pushing SF to power, the 'cleaner' SF politicians spend all their time defending him and his shady past. He brings them all down with him.

    It actually reminds me of latter end of the Haughey era in Fianna Fail. Everyone including the dogs in the street knew he was corrupt but his defenders could say that nobody could prove it.

    With Adams, everyone including the dogs in the street know about his involvement in the IRA but his defenders can say that he has never been found guilty of membership.

    What is scarier about SF is that there was always a George Colley, Des O'Malley, David Andrews. Charlie McCreevy or Gang of Four in FF voicing opposition to CJH. SF is a monolith in comparison with only one voice and one position on everything.


  • #383
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Whats more disappointing for me in this case is the way that damn fine politicians such as Mary Lou McDonald display utter blind loyalty to Gerry for everything he is accused of.
    You said it yourself, only you didn't even notice.
    Accused of. Not proven to have done.


  • #384
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Godge wrote: »
    It actually reminds me of latter end of the Haughey era in Fianna Fail. Everyone including the dogs in the street knew he was corrupt but his defenders could say that nobody could prove it.
    The difference here is that the entire police justice system was (and to some extent still is) in the back pocket of the golden circle. Nobody wanted to prove it. They didn't even try.
    Every politician north and south of the border are out to get SF but can't seem to make much stick. The Gardai and PSNI are hardly their best mates either and don't seem to be making much of a case against them.


  • #385
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You said it yourself, only you didn't even notice.
    Accused of. Not proven to have done.

    Ah will you stop, that kind of an attitude will sink SF in 2016. They first tried to bury and discredit the story, then they changed their tune and admitted there were meetings but Adams never got into the "details" - Adams always knows more than he admits. Irrelevant really, the facts are that most people regards Adams as dodgy. SF need to face that fact and do something about it. And you know, I think they will.


  • #386
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Godge wrote: »
    SF is a monolith in comparison with only one voice and one position on everything.

    Exactly!!

    They scare me with their Borg like loyalty.


  • #387
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Ah will you stop, that kind of an attitude will sink SF in 2016.
    So you, establishment parties and many of their media mouthpieces say. We shall see.
    Creative Juices wrote: »
    They first tried to bury and discredit the story, then they changed their tune and admitted there were meetings
    Can you show me where SF denied there were meetings that they later admitted to happening?


  • #388
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Creative Juices wrote: »
    Exactly!!

    They scare me with their Borg like loyalty.
    Unlike, for example, FF, FG or Labour who show no loyalty at all backing their leaders to the hilt no matter what ****e they spout?


  • #389
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,695 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Some relevant and breaking news this morning.

    BBC News - PPS announces review of Maíria Cahill cases
    Three cases linked to the alleged rape of Belfast woman Maíria Cahill are to be reviewed, the PPS has announced.

    ...

    Announcing an independent review of the cases, Director of Public Prosecutions Barra McGrory, QC, said: "I have carefully considered the range of issues that have been raised following the recent edition of BBC NI's Spotlight programme 'A Woman Alone with the IRA'.

    "While it would not be appropriate for the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) to enter into a media discussion about evidential aspects of these particular cases, I consider that an independent, external scrutiny of our processes and procedures is warranted."

    He added: "I consider that there are particular challenges in prosecuting complex and interlinked cases, as in this instance, involving serious sexual abuse and terrorist related charges and involving multiple complainants and multiple defendants.


  • #390
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    He added: "I consider that there are particular challenges in prosecuting complex and interlinked cases, as in this instance, involving serious sexual abuse and terrorist related charges and involving multiple complainants and multiple defendants.
    What terrorist charges are these? Made by whom against whom?


  • Advertisement
  • #391
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,695 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What terrorist charges are these? Made by whom against whom?

    Probably related to the membership of IRA charges?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement