Is feminism a dirty word?

P. Breathnach · 18-10-2014 11:35AM

Tea Earl Grey Hot wrote: »

The dumb argument is considering a woman who chooses prostitution as not having a choice.

I have to work in my current job due to financial pressures, should my job become illegal?

I raised the matter of women being forced into prostitution because of life circumstances. I indicated situations where the women had no realistic alternative. I did not propose criminalising either them or their clients.

But there is something wrong about a man getting a €20 blowjob in his car from a woman trying to fund her "boyfriend's" heroin habit when she knows that if she doesn't come home with money she can expect a beating.

One eyed Jack · 18-10-2014 11:36AM

Tea Earl Grey Hot wrote: »

On what basis are you saying "the overall effect balances itself out"?

Studies have proven there is bias in court sentencing against men.

I'm saying the overall effect of the law upon everyone, regardless of their gender, balances itself out, on the basis that women are discriminated against in law just as much as men are discriminated against in law.

I don't particularly care for studies that back up your one-sided argument as I have no doubt there are studies exist that show there is bias in court sentencing against women too.

S.L.F · 18-10-2014 12:10PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

First, although I consider myself a feminist, I don't think there is a single "feminist mindset".

Second, and much more important, you are imputing ideas to me that are so far from my beliefs that I am staggered. And if I valued your views, I'd be deeply offended.

The difference between the MHRM and the Marxist feminist movement is pretty clear here.

We believe women should have free choice to do as they please.

You've used a typical feminist tactic and made the worst possible scenario and made it a typical one.

Most sex workers do not have those issues and if they've been forced to have sex with people under duress then it is not free choice, which is about 1-2% of all sex workers!

Everyone I know is against people being forced to have sex with other people.

Your opinions are meaning less to me because you've never looked seriously into what it is feminism really is.

I just use your posts for throwing some facts against.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Again, that's a very vague statement when you offer no context. Everyone, regardless of their gender, is discriminated against in one way or another. I'll help someone who I know who is being discriminated against if they ask for my help and I can see they are clearly being discriminated against, but otherwise, I'm not going to be too bothered by people regardless of their gender whingeing about nothing.

General whingeing about nothing.

The male suicide rate is over 5-1 compared to women and increasing every year.

For every single man who does kill himself there are others who've seriously thought about it.

In the 1970's the suicide rate was around 2-1.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Bizarrely, even in this thread the idiotic 'Marxist' label is being thrown about, in relation to feminism.

It's just lazy bullshít pigeonholing, and the intent behind it, seems to be aimed at soapboxing.

Feminism is a Marxist ideology.

Tea Earl Grey Hot wrote: »

Do you think the fact that men get much more severe punishments by the courts for the same crime is "nothing"?

Women get about 40% of the punishment that men get.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's for me, and not for you, to decide what social movements I support.

Is there any reason to infer that I am not egalitarian?

If you are a real feminist no I don't think you can be an Egalitarian.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Let's take that back a step further - do you think it's OK for anyone to be breaking the law in the first place, regardless of their gender?

If people didn't break the law, they wouldn't have to worry about harsher sentences!

Of course it is not okay for people to break the law.

There is no question of that.

The problem for the MHRM is that the law is applied unfairly.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sweden is regarded as having one of the most gender equal societies in the world? Is that not what MHRMs and egalitarians want? Surely that is exactly what they are campaigning for, no? What exactly do you want, if you dismiss a gender equal society as a feminist canary?

I'm very confused now.

Being confused is a very typical thing for people who are beginning to wake up.

Sweden was always a very equal country it didn't need feminists at all.

You can see what it is feminists are all about in the link about the fires in Sweden (if you bothered to look at it).

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah look, they got nowhere though, did they? A small band of fringe lunatics with lunatic ideas and you're trying to hold that up as a representative example of god knows how many of the population of Sweden identify as feminist?

They are called the leadership.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

See I can't agree with that statement, as it's just the basis of a one sided argument with no context. Judges (who are mostly men) interpret the law as they see fit, and pass sentence accordingly, dependent on the nature of the crime and the circumstances of the case.

On that basis, I can't say you have any case worth arguing when the law discriminates as much against men as it does women. The overall effect balances itself out.

Men are happy to throw other men under the bus so to speak.

Circumstances of the case being if you are female you'll get 40% of the punishment your co-defendant gets just because he's a man.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I raised the matter of women being forced into prostitution because of life circumstances. I indicated situations where the women had no realistic alternative. I did not propose criminalising either them or their clients.

But there is something wrong about a man getting a €20 blowjob in his car from a woman trying to fund her "boyfriend's" heroin habit when she knows that if she doesn't come home with money she can expect a beating.

"forced into prostitution because of life circumstances"

Lets turn that around shall we!

People of their own free will choose to become sex workers.

If the hypothetical woman is getting beatings from a hypothetical boyfriend should she not hypothetically leave him?

What does that have to do with her own free choice of having sex with people for money.

If I don't work I'll be out on the street.

Does that mean my job should become illegal because I'd be desperate for the money?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm saying the overall effect of the law upon everyone, regardless of their gender, balances itself out, on the basis that women are discriminated against in law just as much as men are discriminated against in law.

I don't particularly care for studies that back up your one-sided argument as I have no doubt there are studies exist that show there is bias in court sentencing against women too.

'Bias in court sentencing against women'

You have no doubt about it, good.

So why not prove it!

hatrickpatrick · 18-10-2014 12:14PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

But there is something wrong about a man getting a €20 blowjob in his car from a woman trying to fund her "boyfriend's" heroin habit when she knows that if she doesn't come home with money she can expect a beating.

Honestly this is Ivana Bacick/Harriet Harmen 101, ultimately a man must be at the root of all the world's ills. :mad:

hatrickpatrick · 18-10-2014 12:19PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So every woman selling herself for sex who has not been trafficked is exercising a choice? That's nonsense.

I despise that expression TBH. Someone selling sex isn't selling themselves any more than someone selling their vocal talent is selling themselves. In both cases, you're being paid to do something.

P. Breathnach · 18-10-2014 12:24PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Honestly this is Ivana Bacick/Harriet Harmen 101, ultimately a man must be at the root of all the world's ills. :mad:

So because you suppose that people like Ivana Bacik and Harriet Harman might think it wrong, we should not be concerned about situations like this?

BrokenHero · 18-10-2014 12:30PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm not going to be drawn on this one because we could get too close to a discussion of me rather than a discussion of feminism in general.

You're the one that brought it up.

Quit identifying yourself as a male feminist in that case.

As for prostitution. There might be less of it if this kind of crap didn't go on:

HugsiePie wrote: »

In my college the feminist society would be seen as quite extreme, quite a bit of man hate.....at soc day they had posters telling women to withold sex and all that

hatrickpatrick · 18-10-2014 12:32PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So because you suppose that people like Ivana Bacik and Harriet Harman might think it wrong, we should not be concerned about situations like this?

Not at all, but you've provided no evidence that most or even many prostitutes are coerced by a man in this manner, you're merely stating that men are ultimately at fault and expecting everyone not to question how this conclusion was arrived at.

P. Breathnach · 18-10-2014 12:47PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not at all, but you've provided no evidence that most or even many prostitutes are coerced by a man in this manner, you're merely stating that men are ultimately at fault and expecting everyone not to question how this conclusion was arrived at.

I instanced a number of factors that might drive women into prostitution and which I would consider coercive - including a woman's own drug habit, being in fear of a moneylender, and being homeless. You don't seem at all exercised by these.

I never suggested these factors accounted for most prostitution. I simply don't know the numbers. But it takes a special type of blindfold to fail to see that such things happen in Ireland. Most women in such situations operate on the streets, don't have websites, and don't call themselves escorts.

And I'm fairly sure that they don't want themseves or their punters to be criminalised.

One eyed Jack · 18-10-2014 01:16PM

S.L.F wrote: »

General whingeing about nothing.

The male suicide rate is over 5-1 compared to women and increasing every year.

For every single man who does kill himself there are others who've seriously thought about it.

In the 1970's the suicide rate was around 2-1.

I'm not sure what your point is here really? More men choose to die by suicide than women? What has that got to do with feminism? It's just more meaningless, vague nonsense, and the whole "for every man who does kill himself, there are more men who have thought about it", well, no shìt, really? Just more vague nonsense.

You've yet to actually propose any way to tackle the issue of male suicide instead of simply pointing fingers at feminism and saying "it's all their fault", as if the issue of male suicide is as simple as that. You're just using the issue of male suicide as a stick to beat feminism with, rather than doing anything to address the actual issue of male suicide itself.

Of course it is not okay for people to break the law.

There is no question of that.

The problem for the MHRM is that the law is applied unfairly.

Feminists say exactly the same thing! You're both right, because both groups are looking at the issue from their own perspective. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to either ideology can see that the law is not as black and white as either groups try to make out, and they can see that the law discriminates against both genders in different ways, and therefore balances itself out. You seem to be arguing for increased sentencing for women, when wouldn't it be more logical to argue for lesser sentences for men?

Being confused is a very typical thing for people who are beginning to wake up.

I'm wide awake as it happens, I just don't subscribe to your perspective of looking at the world with one eye closed. You claim feminism is 'evil' and MHRM is 'good', you claim MHRM is about gender equality, yet all you've gone on about is how unfair society is on men? Where does equality for women actually figure in your ideology, unless you mean that you campaign for harsher sentences for women?

Can you see why anyone might want to dissociate themselves from such a ridiculous suggestion?

Sweden was always a very equal country it didn't need feminists at all.

You can see what it is feminists are all about in the link about the fires in Sweden (if you bothered to look at it).

I didn't bother to look at it, I'm more interested in hearing your opinion. If you want me to support your position, then it's in your interest to give me something I can actually relate to, as opposed to expecting I should have to go off and find for myself something to be offended by or upset about.

They are called the leadership.

Feminists are the leadership of feminists? What? More vague nonsense. You hold up a few crackpots as representative of an ideology, and expect anyone to take you seriously, when there are billions of feminists the world over tackling any number of issues and defining what feminism means to them personally. There simply is NO 'leadership', as nobody actually owns feminism. It means different things to different people. You just don't seem to be able to comprehend that.

Men are happy to throw other men under the bus so to speak.

So now it's not just women you have issues with, but you have issues with men too, it's all men's fault that men are oppressed? I think you ought to set up your own misanthropes movement tbh. A misanthrope movement with just one member, because you seem to hate everyone else that isn't you! I wish you good luck with that...

Circumstances of the case being if you are female you'll get 40% of the punishment your co-defendant gets just because he's a man.

Another meaningless throwaway statement that just hangs in the air, tells us nothing, etc.

'Bias in court sentencing against women'

You have no doubt about it, good.

So why not prove it!

I said I have no doubt that studies exist that show there is bias in court sentencing against women. What I can't say however is that there actually IS bias against women in court sentencing, in just the same way as I can't say there actually IS bias against men in court sentencing.

It's only a matter of opinion whether the law discriminates more against men or more against women, and it depends on what laws you're talking about, what punishment for what crimes you're talking about, and what measures for rehabilitation you're talking about.

Or you can just simply say "Men have it harder in todays society", in which case you will just be dismissed as a bitter, women hating whingebag. That Elam chap for example. How do you honestly expect to be given any hearing in normal society when your claims consist of -

- Feminism is evil
- Men throw themselves under the bus
- Hate mongering statements about women begging to be raped are just satire
- Women should receive harsher sentences for their crimes

Did I miss anything?

BrokenHero · 18-10-2014 01:30PM

Tea Earl Grey Hot wrote: »

Can you clarify why you identify as a feminist?

He has refused to be drawn on it, despite the fact that it was he who felt it pertinent enough to the discussion that he posted it.

In my own opinion, men identify as a male feminist to impress their female peers. They also tend to be the type to put women on pedestals. Extreme lefty liberal types in the main also and don't we know well how much they just love identifying with the oppressed.

I feel in their mind identifying as a feminist sends the message to their peers that they are a sensitive guy, not at all like those big mad misogynists and so hopefully that female validation will earn them enough accolades to put them at a higher standing in whichever peer group it is that they are so eager to impress.

Scratch a little below the surface of these guys though and their motives usually become quite clear as they will struggle to voice any other meaningful reasoning for their wish to be known as a male feminist. Hollywood is full of these guys lately:

herald.ie/opinion/are-irish-blokes-man-enough-to-own-up-to-being-feminists-30615759.html

Lyger · 18-10-2014 01:39PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

He has refused to be drawn on it, despite the fact that it was he who felt it pertinent enough to the discussion that he posted it.

In my own opinion, men identify as a male feminist to impress their female peers. They also tend to be the type to put women on pedestals. Extreme lefty liberal types in the main also and don't we know well how much they just love identifying with the oppressed.

I feel in their mind identifying as a feminist sends the message to their peers that they are a sensitive guy, not at all like those big mad misogynists and so hopefully that female validation will earn them enough accolades to put them at a higher standing in whichever peer group it is that they are so eager to impress.

Scratch a little below the surface of these guys though and their motives usually become quite clear as they will struggle to voice any other meaningful reasoning for their wish to be known as a male feminist. Hollywood is full of these guys lately:

herald.ie/opinion/are-irish-blokes-man-enough-to-own-up-to-being-feminists-30615759.html

I agree with a lot of that. The male feminists in support of that "Men, know your place!" woman were just nauseating. I've been on the receiving end of that stuff - ploy to get my knickers off totally.
Sure, there's obviously nothing wrong with men taking issue with when women's rights are abused (because these are human rights) but actually being a male feminist... I don't understand it.

Now maybe some guys who identify as feminist have a differing view on what feminism is and it wouldn't be fair of me to state all of them are just being cynical and trying to get laid, but why identify with a movement that can sometimes be quite negative towards men? Even if unintentionally, it can feel that way. E.g. "rape culture" - that's totally demonising of men.

FullblownRose · 18-10-2014 01:49PM

It's Egalitarianism, or has it been replaced wth 'equilism'? I suppose they both work.

Friend of mine gets cross because he thinks women are over represented and feminism is about the dominance of men.

While there are weird sects of feminism (separatist lesbian feminists for example) I don't think they deserve to be the face of feminism as they just put people off, alientate both men and women and bring feminism into disrepute.

I've reminded my friend that there's also an international men's day (he sees womens day as another example of men being left out) but he keeps forgetting and ranting about women's day.

Some people want to feel hard-done by.

One eyed Jack · 18-10-2014 02:03PM

FullblownRose wrote: »

Some people want to feel hard-done by.

This is all it comes down to really, people wanting to play the martyr and then whingeing because nobody wants to listen to them.

Lyger · 18-10-2014 02:08PM

Not picking a particular "side" here but some feminism can utterly thrive on that victimhood, martyrdom stuff.

P. Breathnach · 18-10-2014 02:13PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm not going to be drawn on this one because we could get too close to a discussion of me rather than a discussion of feminism in general.

It seems that even when I decline to be drawn because I don't want this to be a discussion of me, such a discussion happens anyway.

One eyed Jack · 18-10-2014 02:28PM

Lyger wrote: »

Not picking a particular "side" here but some feminism can utterly thrive on that victimhood, martyrdom stuff.

Absolutely, I think that's the point though, is that people who thrive on the victimhood, martyrdom stuff will always be found at the more extreme end of any ideology, and the victimhood, martyrdom crowd of the opposite ideology will always point out the extremists in the opposite movement as an example of the whole ideology.

That's why you get people pointing to Dworkin and Elam as examples of their particular ideology, when all they are really is an embarrassment that would never be taken seriously anyway! All it does is polarize any discussion as if to say - 'Well I haven't heard you criticise them, so that must mean you support them'.

Ehh, no, you're taking no account of the fact that I simply couldn't be arsed with them.

It's one of the reasons why I don't bother with any of these 'isms' and 'causes' and all the rest of it, because I simply can't relate to any of it.

BrokenHero · 18-10-2014 03:15PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It seems that even when I decline to be drawn because I don't want this to be a discussion of me, such a discussion happens anyway.

Oh quit playing the victim. YOU brought this aspect of yourself into the discussion. Nobody else:

P. Breathnach wrote: »

..I would like to think that in my own small way I am a good feminist..

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I identify myself as a feminist..

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm a feminist (a "Joe Soap" one)..

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I am a (male) feminist..

Might be an idea in the future, that you don't brings things up about yourself which you wish others didn't comment further on.

SoupMonster · 18-10-2014 03:37PM

The following have featured on my twitter feed in the last 24 hours (I follow quite a few moderate and radical feminists, some are extremely radical).

This is just a snapshot of what these women are discussing, concerned about and lobbying against. I don't see any man-hating in any of these items, unless you equate hatred of child abusers and rapists as man-hating.

Child porn
1. John Grisham (famous novelist) defends old men who **** off to images of child abuse. (No other way to phrase it).
2. Survivor of child porn explains why she feels repeatedly traumatised each time FBI tells her that her images are downloaded again.

GamerGate
1. Death threats against Anita Sarkeesian for pointing out that many games as sexist.
2. University refused to forbid concealed firearms in an auditorium where Anita was due to speak despite threats of a 'Montreal style massacre".
3. 14 women were separated from their male peers and shot, for having the audacity to study engineering, at Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, 1989.
4 Police say online threats are "the norm" and "unreal" because she hasn't been shot yet.
5. Brianna Wu (games developer) being targeted by men who think feminazis are attacking their precious rape culture. "I’ve got a K-bar and I’m coming to your house so I can shove it up your ugly feminist c*nt."

Silencing
1. Julie Bindle (lesbian feminist) is no-platformed from debating the merits/demerits of porn with a pornographer in Sheffield University.
2. Sheffield Students Union must comply with UK National Union of Students policy that "Julie Bindel is vile".
4. Jean Hatchet (outspoken feminist) gets death threats for having a view on rapists Ched Evans.

Sex and Gender
1. Whether penis is a male or female organ!
2. Legalisation of the idea that ANY man can simply state he is a woman, at any time and even on a whim.
3. Abortion as a social good.
4. Lack of sex/consent education in school blamed for boys being sexually coercive in their teens (UK).

Sexual Violence
1. Juries acquitting rapists on the basis of myths, such as "She was wearing a miniskirt, asking for it"
2. Jamie Oliver employs child rapist. (19 year-old who raped a 12 year old. Sentencing guidelines mandate an 8 to 13 year term, he got 4).
3. Rapes in UK up 29% in one year.
4 Ched Evans (rapist of blind drunk 19-year-old) to return to football at Sheffield United, where fans chant, "He rapes who he wants, He rapes who he wants".
5. Evans' team-mates have called the victim a “slag” and a “money-grabbing little tramp”.

Sexual Objectification
1. Australian sports women are honoured for their achievements by having topless woman welcome them on the red carpet.
2. Geena Davis on Hollywood's sexualisation of young girls (Women in films 'equally sexualised between ages 13 and 39).

Prostitution
1. Campaign to vacate the criminal records of trafficked minors in USA. Yes, trafficked and pimped kids are saddled with criminal records that limit job prospects for life.
2. New York introduces diversion courts to assist minors in prostitution rather than imprison them.
3. Japan continues effort to whitewash and deny history of "comfort women".
4. President Carter supports survivors of prostitution summit in New York and goals of abolition.
5. Women's Aid slams "shocking" DOJ prostitution report in N.Ireland.
6. German government struggling with the idea that a man paying to sexually abuse a trafficked women is committing a crime.
7. Rape is legal in Germany unless defence can show that victim physically struggled.

Trafficking
1. Anti-trafficking event in Dublin and release of trafficking statistics by EU for 2010-2012.
2. Sex trafficked woman says when johns knew she was forced, they demanded more of her.
3. Prostitution ring running trafficked males busted.
4. Former prison guard and his ex-inmate partner force 16 year old girl and 17 year old boy into prostitution.
5. 3 brothers ran a Gdansk brothel and most of 70 women working for them were forced. Women had tattoos declaring their loyalty to their pimps.
6 JaneDoe1 (trafficked and sold more than 1000 times when she was 15/16) and JaneDoe2 (trafficked at age 15) suing Backpage.com for facilitating their abuse.

Violence
1. Oscar Pistorius is upset because he shot his girlfriend multiple times, therefore should not go to jail.
2. Boko Haram and the Nigerian kidnapped school-girls.
3. 2 young black woman killed in Florida, found bound together and naked, but nobody cares because the were "only exotic dancers" and black.

Representation
1. Equal representation of men/women in UK parliament.

Equality
1. 35% of women imprisoned in Saudi Arabia remain in prison passed their release dates because their (male) guardian must consent to their release.
2. Welfare Food Challenge, can a single mother feed her kids on welfare in Canada. Answer is No. 30% shortfall.

Breaking:-
1. Court overturns Marissa Alexander’s 20-year sentence for firing a warning shot at abusive husband (Florida where "stand your ground" allowed Trayvon Martin to be legally killed for looking threatening.)

And finally
1. "If only you hated rape & domestic violence as much as you hate feminism".

Apologies for length of list but there are quite a few issues.
The fact that women can languish in prison in Saudi was new to me, otherwise, same old, same old.

Lyger · 18-10-2014 03:47PM

Thanks SoupMonster.

Some of the above... I don't get why they're feminist issues. They're human rights concerns.

Some of them though are gendered for sure though - e.g. the Ched Evans stuff (feel a bit sick reading that tbh) and the GamerGate stuff; this is why I don't have a problem with focus on women's rights alone at times (and indeed focus on men's rights alone at times).

I do find what Julie Bindle says to be vile at times too though - she has demonstrated hostility towards fellow women also.

P. Breathnach · 18-10-2014 03:47PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

Oh quit playing the victim. YOU brought this aspect of yourself into the discussion. Nobody else:

Might be an idea in the future, that you don't brings things up about yourself which you wish others didn't comment further on.

I have no difficulty in declaring myself to be a feminist.

I decline to be held accountable to you for taking that position. Given that your idea of holding me to account includes this sort of nonsense:

In my own opinion, men identify as a male feminist to impress their female peers. They also tend to be the type to put women on pedestals. Extreme lefty liberal types in the main also and don't we know well how much they just love identifying with the oppressed.

I feel in their mind identifying as a feminist sends the message to their peers that they are a sensitive guy, not at all like those big mad misogynists and so hopefully that female validation will earn them enough accolades to put them at a higher standing in whichever peer group it is that they are so eager to impress.

I think my decling to discuss my reasons with you is justified. You want to indulge in ad hominem (how apposite the term!) argument.

paddy1990 · 18-10-2014 04:35PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

He has refused to be drawn on it, despite the fact that it was he who felt it pertinent enough to the discussion that he posted it.

In my own opinion, men identify as a male feminist to impress their female peers. They also tend to be the type to put women on pedestals. Extreme lefty liberal types in the main also and don't we know well how much they just love identifying with the oppressed.

I feel in their mind identifying as a feminist sends the message to their peers that they are a sensitive guy, not at all like those big mad misogynists and so hopefully that female validation will earn them enough accolades to put them at a higher standing in whichever peer group it is that they are so eager to impress.

Scratch a little below the surface of these guys though and their motives usually become quite clear as they will struggle to voice any other meaningful reasoning for their wish to be known as a male feminist. Hollywood is full of these guys lately:

herald.ie/opinion/are-irish-blokes-man-enough-to-own-up-to-being-feminists-30615759.html

Great post.

Nicely exposes the "male" feminists.

SoupMonster · 18-10-2014 06:13PM

Lyger wrote: »

Thanks SoupMonster.

Some of the above... I don't get why they're feminist issues. They're human rights concerns.

Some of them though are gendered for sure though - e.g. the Ched Evans stuff (feel a bit sick reading that tbh) and the GamerGate stuff; this is why I don't have a problem with focus on women's rights alone at times (and indeed focus on men's rights alone at times).

I do find what Julie Bindle says to be vile at times too though - she has demonstrated hostility towards fellow women also.

They are not necessarily all feminist issues, they are the issues that the feminist activists in my timeline were concerned about/discussing during the last 24 hours. Feminists do concern themselves with general human rights and sometimes with men's issues, but being self-declared feminist activists, their primary focus is on issues that affect women and they adopt a feminist perspective (how things impact on women as a class) on wider issues.

A worrying issue with Evans and GamerGate is that boys/men react so badly. Anonymity is regarded as a licence to abuse and issue threats. There are entire sub-cultures that seem to believe this is OK because it only on the internet. It has a real impact, I know one woman who needed police protection due to this type of abuse, it's not funny. Many of the feminists I follow hold extreme ideological positions, but I have never seen any issue threats or wish harm on anyone.

On Julie Bindel, I don't see where she is particularly vile or hostile towards other women, though she can be quite forthright. What so you find hostile in what she says? Is it sufficient to no-platform her?

S.L.F · 18-10-2014 08:28PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

He has refused to be drawn on it, despite the fact that it was he who felt it pertinent enough to the discussion that he posted it.

In my own opinion, men identify as a male feminist to impress their female peers. They also tend to be the type to put women on pedestals. Extreme lefty liberal types in the main also and don't we know well how much they just love identifying with the oppressed.

I feel in their mind identifying as a feminist sends the message to their peers that they are a sensitive guy, not at all like those big mad misogynists and so hopefully that female validation will earn them enough accolades to put them at a higher standing in whichever peer group it is that they are so eager to impress.

Scratch a little below the surface of these guys though and their motives usually become quite clear as they will struggle to voice any other meaningful reasoning for their wish to be known as a male feminist. Hollywood is full of these guys lately:

My personal belief is that they don't respect women at all.

SoupMonster wrote: »

The following have featured on my twitter feed in the last 24 hours (I follow quite a few moderate and radical feminists, some are extremely radical).

This is just a snapshot of what these women are discussing, concerned about and lobbying against. I don't see any man-hating in any of these items, unless you equate hatred of child abusers and rapists as man-hating.

No what this is mainly is human rights issues but they have failed to mention that other half of the human race completely.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Child porn
1. John Grisham (famous novelist) defends old men who **** off to images of child abuse. (No other way to phrase it).
2. Survivor of child porn explains why she feels repeatedly traumatised each time FBI tells her that her images are downloaded again.

1. Here's the real story
2. All survivors of child sexual abuse should be treated with as much sympathy as humanly possible.
Anyone who views sexual abuse of children for 'pleasure' should be jailed for ever.

SoupMonster wrote: »

GamerGate
1. Death threats against Anita Sarkeesian for pointing out that many games as sexist.
2. University refused to forbid concealed firearms in an auditorium where Anita was due to speak despite threats of a 'Montreal style massacre".
3. 14 women were separated from their male peers and shot, for having the audacity to study engineering, at Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, 1989.
4 Police say online threats are "the norm" and "unreal" because she hasn't been shot yet.
5. Brianna Wu (games developer) being targeted by men who think feminazis are attacking their precious rape culture. "I’ve got a K-bar and I’m coming to your house so I can shove it up your ugly feminist c*nt."

1. No she claimed there were death threats but no one has ever been pointed out as the one responsible for the threats, I am told AVfM has given a reward for information for the arrest and prosecution of the people who have 'threatened' her.
The games are normally 'edgy' however if you take a minute to look at them and see just how many male characters are killed compared to females you'll clearly see that computer games encourage male disposablity.
2 Again more claims but no proof offered other than her word
3 I've no information on this.
4 Males suffer more threats than women ever do.
5 More claims by feminists with no proof offered.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Silencing
1. Julie Bindle (lesbian feminist) is no-platformed from debating the merits/demerits of porn with a pornographer in Sheffield University.
2. Sheffield Students Union must comply with UK National Union of Students policy that "Julie Bindel is vile".
4. Jean Hatchet (outspoken feminist) gets death threats for having a view on rapists Ched Evans.

1. Julie Bindle is behind a 'charity' which she does her best to get women who've murdered their partners cleared of their convictions.
2. She is vile
3. ___________
4. The Ched Evans rape case was interesting because the 'victim' in the case was a hostile witness. She didn't remember banging the first guy of the night nor the second and nor if there were any others. The first guy was cleared because she was seen talking to him earlier in the night and got willingly into a taxi with him.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Sex and Gender
1. Whether penis is a male or female organ!
2. Legalisation of the idea that ANY man can simply state he is a woman, at any time and even on a whim.
3. Abortion as a social good.
4. Lack of sex/consent education in school blamed for boys being sexually coercive in their teens (UK).

1. Estrogen or testosterone are what make people male or female....except the 1% of people who happen to be trans
2. That'd be an interesting thing, It'd mean far more rights for men.
3. No comment
4. So typical feminists are blaming boys again.

Quote...I don't see any man-hating in any of these items

SoupMonster wrote: »

Sexual Violence
1. Juries acquitting rapists on the basis of myths, such as "She was wearing a miniskirt, asking for it"
2. Jamie Oliver employs child rapist. (19 year-old who raped a 12 year old. Sentencing guidelines mandate an 8 to 13 year term, he got 4).
3. Rapes in UK up 29% in one year.
4 Ched Evans (rapist of blind drunk 19-year-old) to return to football at Sheffield United, where fans chant, "He rapes who he wants, He rapes who he wants".
5. Evans' team-mates have called the victim a “slag” and a “money-grabbing little tramp”.

1. Female rapists having sex with young boys and the press calling it 'Sex' and saying they were having a 'relationship'.
2. 4 years is longer than the vast majority of female rapists get for the same crimes that male child sex abusers get
3. Don't know enough about this to comment
4. Such things are disgusting
5. Such things are disgusting.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Sexual Objectification
1. Australian sports women are honoured for their achievements by having topless woman welcome them on the red carpet.
2. Geena Davis on Hollywood's sexualisation of young girls (Women in films 'equally sexualised between ages 13 and 39).

1. A bit of research on the subject reveals that the people who organised it were 'Women's Health Magazine'. Some could be so cheeky to ask why it is topless women should be an issue considering many feminists are pushing the notion that women should be able to do what they want to when they want to.
2. The sexualisation of men happens as well but few care overly much about that.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Prostitution
1. Campaign to vacate the criminal records of trafficked minors in USA. Yes, trafficked and pimped kids are saddled with criminal records that limit job prospects for life.
2. New York introduces diversion courts to assist minors in prostitution rather than imprison them.
3. Japan continues effort to whitewash and deny history of "comfort women".
4. President Carter supports survivors of prostitution summit in New York and goals of abolition.
5. Women's Aid slams "shocking" DOJ prostitution report in N.Ireland.
6. German government struggling with the idea that a man paying to sexually abuse a trafficked women is committing a crime.
7. Rape is legal in Germany unless defence can show that victim physically struggled.

1. I'll just bet there is more to this story than the bit you've put in here. Here's what I got for the couple of seconds searching I did. I don't have time to go into it further.
2. I know nothing about this
3. 5 years of sexual slavery would destroy anyone, those women are incredibly brave for speaking out. The Japanese administration should admit it's crimes and move forward.
4. Carter is pushing his new book.
5. Women's Aid....the feminist cash cow.
6. If a man knows the sex worker has been trafficked then he should be convicted.
7. Rape is a disgusting crime and all efforts should be brought to bear to bring rapists to justice, this includes female ones as well.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Trafficking
1. Anti-trafficking event in Dublin and release of trafficking statistics by EU for 2010-2012.
2. Sex trafficked woman says when johns knew she was forced, they demanded more of her.
3. Prostitution ring running trafficked males busted.
4. Former prison guard and his ex-inmate partner force 16 year old girl and 17 year old boy into prostitution.
5. 3 brothers ran a Gdansk brothel and most of 70 women working for them were forced. Women had tattoos declaring their loyalty to their pimps.
6 JaneDoe1 (trafficked and sold more than 1000 times when she was 15/16) and JaneDoe2 (trafficked at age 15) suing Backpage.com for facilitating their abuse.

1. The EU is run by feminists so I have no faith in their figures.
2. All sexual abuse is disgusting and if someone knows another has no choice and abuse them further they should be jailed for life.
3. Women are also traffickers and also are brothel keepers too.
4. If they forced them into sex work they should be jailed for life. This is child abuse and nothing makes me more angry than child abuse.
5. The story my view is that anyone who traffics another human being against their will should be jailed for life
6. Good...more people should sue the crap out of people who help sell the humans who are trafficked for sex

SoupMonster wrote: »

Violence
1. Oscar Pistorius is upset because he shot his girlfriend multiple times, therefore should not go to jail.
2. Boko Haram and the Nigerian kidnapped school-girls.
3. 2 young black woman killed in Florida, found bound together and naked, but nobody cares because the were "only exotic dancers" and black.

1. I've followed his story a bit but don't really have an opinion on the subject, I'd rather allow the law and justice to take place in SA.
2. They've butchered literally thousands of boys, girls, men and women. What is not well known is they have raped most people before they murder them.
3. If no one cared how come it has come out in the news?

SoupMonster wrote: »

Representation
1. Equal representation of men/women in UK parliament.

1. I don't understand this! Are the politicians in govt elected democratically or not? Do they ONLY act in the interest of men? Do women not vote for these men or something/

SoupMonster wrote: »

Equality
1. 35% of women imprisoned in Saudi Arabia remain in prison passed their release dates because their (male) guardian must consent to their release.
2. Welfare Food Challenge, can a single mother feed her kids on welfare in Canada. Answer is No. 30% shortfall.

1. I don't fully understand how their laws work but I can say it is not exactly great for men at the bottom either.
2. Why is this in "equality"?

SoupMonster wrote: »

Breaking:-
1. Court overturns Marissa Alexander’s 20-year sentence for firing a warning shot at abusive husband (Florida where "stand your ground" allowed Trayvon Martin to be legally killed for looking threatening.)

1. Amazing how feminists take 'alleged abuser' to be the exact same as abuser. Also there is no mention of the fact that she was in his home.

Corey's office argued that Alexander, who had not been living in the home for two months leading up to the shooting, provoked the incident, and that there was no proof the garage door was broken, Alexander's rationale for not leaving the altercation. Her office offered her a three-year plea deal in the case that was rejected.

SoupMonster wrote: »

And finally
1. "If only you hated rape & domestic violence as much as you hate feminism".

I and every member of both genders of the MHRM hate all domestic abuse, unlike feminists who only have problems with male abusers.

SoupMonster wrote: »

Apologies for length of list but there are quite a few issues.
The fact that women can languish in prison in Saudi was new to me, otherwise, same old, same old.

Quite a few issues which are bogus as well of course.

Was there any mention of the men who languish in Saudi prisons?

Was there any mention of the men who are whipped and the number of whips they get compared to women?

paddy1990 · 18-10-2014 08:36PM

S.L.F wrote: »

My personal belief is that they don't respect women at all.

No what this is mainly is human rights issues but they have failed to mention that other half of the human race completely.

1. Here's the real story
2. All survivors of child sexual abuse should be treated with as much sympathy as humanly possible.
Anyone who views sexual abuse of children for 'pleasure' should be jailed for ever.

1. No she claimed there were death threats but no one has ever been pointed out as the one responsible for the threats, I am told AVfM has given a reward for information for the arrest and prosecution of the people who have 'threatened' her.
The games are normally 'edgy' however if you take a minute to look at them and see just how many male characters are killed compared to females you'll clearly see that computer games encourage male disposablity.
2 Again more claims but no proof offered other than her word
3 I've no information on this.
4 Males suffer more threats than women ever do.
5 More claims by feminists with no proof offered.

1. Julie Bindle is behind a 'charity' which she does her best to get women who've murdered their partners cleared of their convictions.
2. She is vile
3. ___________
4. The Ched Evans rape case was interesting because the 'victim' in the case was a hostile witness. She didn't remember banging the first guy of the night nor the second and nor if there were any others. The first guy was cleared because she was seen talking to him earlier in the night and got willingly into a taxi with him.

1. Estrogen or testosterone are what make people male or female....except the 1% of people who happen to be trans
2. That'd be an interesting thing, It'd mean far more rights for men.
3. No comment
4. So typical feminists are blaming boys again.

1. Female rapists having sex with young boys and the press calling it 'Sex' and saying they were having a 'relationship'.
2. 4 years is longer than the vast majority of female rapists get for the same crimes that male child sex abusers get
3. Don't know enough about this to comment
4. Such things are disgusting
5. Such things are disgusting.

1. A bit of research on the subject reveals that the people who organised it were 'Women's Health Magazine'. Some could be so cheeky to ask why it is topless women should be an issue considering many feminists are pushing the notion that women should be able to do what they want to when they want to.
2. The sexualisation of men happens as well but few care overly much about that.

1. I'll just bet there is more to this story than the bit you've put in here. Here's what I got for the couple of seconds searching I did. I don't have time to go into it further.
2. I know nothing about this
3. 5 years of sexual slavery would destroy anyone, those women are incredibly brave for speaking out. The Japanese administration should admit it's crimes and move forward.
4. Carter is pushing his new book.
5. Women's Aid....the feminist cash cow.
6. If a man knows the sex worker has been trafficked then he should be convicted.
7. Rape is a disgusting crime and all efforts should be brought to bear to bring rapists to justice, this includes female ones as well.

1. The EU is run by feminists so I have no faith in their figures.
2. All sexual abuse is disgusting and if someone knows another has no choice and abuse them further they should be jailed for life.
3. Women are also traffickers and also are brothel keepers too.
4. If they forced them into sex work they should be jailed for life. This is child abuse and nothing makes me more angry than child abuse.
5. The story my view is that anyone who traffics another human being against their will should be jailed for life
6. Good...more people should sue the crap out of people who help sell the humans who are trafficked for sex

1. I've followed his story a bit but don't really have an opinion on the subject, I'd rather allow the law and justice to take place in SA.
2. They've butchered literally thousands of boys, girls, men and women. What is not well known is they have raped most people before they murder them.
3. If no one cared how come it has come out in the news?

1. I don't understand this! Are the politicians in govt elected democratically or not? Do they ONLY act in the interest of men? Do women not vote for these men or something/

1. I don't fully understand how their laws work but I can say it is not exactly great for men at the bottom either.
2. Why is this in "equality"?

1. Amazing how feminists take 'alleged abuser' to be the exact same as abuser. Also there is no mention of the fact that she was in his home.

I and every member of both genders of the MHRM hate all domestic abuse, unlike feminists who only have problems with male abusers.

Quite a few issues which are bogus as well of course.

Was there any mention of the men who languish in Saudi prisons?

Was there any mention of the men who are whipped and the number of whips they get compared to women?

One of the most thorough cases of someone completely winning an argument.

Exceptional post.

You could have gone easy, but you decided to bring out the heavy artillery.

Fine stuff.

S.L.F · 18-10-2014 08:40PM

paddy1990 wrote: »

One of the most thorough cases of someone completely winning an argument.

Exceptional post.

You could have gone easy, but you decided to bring out the heavy artillery.

Fine stuff.

Thank you.

The MHRM does try to use facts rather than accept lies based on a sick evil ideology.

S.L.F · 18-10-2014 09:04PM

SoupMonster wrote: »

3. 14 women were separated from their male peers and shot, for having the audacity to study engineering, at Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal, 1989.

Since I am in the mood I decided to look further into this.

Those women were not killed because they were studying engineering, they were killed under the pretext that they were feminists.

The story

However the truth is they were not killed because they were feminists it would be fairer to say that a mentally ill man got access to a gun and killed them.

I am certain that a good look at his family history would reveal some stuff feminists would rather was kept quiet.

Did you know that the majority of mass murderers come from single mother households?

Even the man in this story came from a single parent home however feminists keep pushing the notion it is violence against women that causes most crimes instead of a fatherless society.

paddy1990 · 18-10-2014 09:21PM

S.L.F wrote: »

Since I am in the mood I decided to look further into this.

Those women were not killed because they were studying engineering, they were killed under the pretext that they were feminists.

The story

However the truth is they were not killed because they were feminists it would be fairer to say that a mentally ill man got access to a gun and killed them.

I am certain that a good look at his family history would reveal some stuff feminists would rather was kept quiet.

Did you know that the majority of mass murderers come from single mother households?

Even the man in this story came from a single parent home however feminists keep pushing the notion it is violence against women that causes most crimes instead of a fatherless society.

Fantastic research again.

I'm sure the feminists would blame the man for the fact that it was a single mother household though. Saying the man was not a good father/selfish/left his kids etc etc. Nevermind the woman who made a decision to procreate with such a man.

S.L.F · 18-10-2014 09:30PM

Wanna see an interesting article.

Here's another set of stuff to read over if you have the time.

paddy1990 · 18-10-2014 09:38PM

S.L.F wrote: »

Wanna see an interesting article.

Here's another set of stuff to read over if you have the time.

Wow, those quotes by the Saudi women brought a tear to my eye.

Amazing women.

Is feminism a dirty word?

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