Is feminism a dirty word?

Minera

I recently watched the video of Emma Watson making a speech about He for She at the U.N. and one of her of her points albeit not the main one, was feminism or being a feminist has certain connotations attatched to it.

By that I mean are both men and women afraid of saying they support gender equality for fear of being labelled as anti men?

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

COYVB

Feminism is just another word for aggressive sexism these days tbh.

It's got nothing to do with equality any more

Minera

COYVB wrote: »

Feminism is just another word for aggressive sexism these days tbh.

It's got nothing to do with equality any more

Why do you say that?

kneemos

Never know exactly what they want,nor have I heard anyone explain it.

dotsman

Equilism is about equality.

Feminism is just another word for sexism. The clue is in the name. Both masculism and feminism make up the 2 branches of sexism.

Minera

dotsman wrote: »

Equilism is about equality.

Feminism is just another word for sexism. The clue is in the name. Both masculism and feminism make up the 2 branches of sexism.

Hmmm I like that...equilism, I think ill change my wording when talking about gender equality!

So do you actively support equilism, or is it something you think about much?

Minera

kneemos wrote: »

Never know exactly what they want,nor have I heard anyone explain it.

youtube emma watson addresses u.n. its the most unbiased view ive seen yet!

banquo

This: since when are movie stars too young to have experienced anything of life our go-to people on complicated social issues?

jill_valentine

Minera wrote: »

I recently watched the video of Emma Watson making a speech about He for She at the U.N. and one of her of her points albeit not the main one, was feminism or being a feminist has certain connotations attatched to it.

By that I mean are both men and women afraid of saying they support gender equality for fear of being labelled as anti men?

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

Have a look at any thread about feminism in AH and see how long it takes posters with chips on their shoulders - AH has a massive readership but you will see the same names every time - to take over and dissolve it into a conversation about men's rights or what feminism "actually" means, despite what the women and feminists there are actually telling them. They will do this without any self awareness whatsoever, even as they start talking about why it should be called "equalism"

At least in these parts, and in many others, yes feminism is treated as a dirty word which, no matter how qualified and diluted and disclaimered, will still invite immediate vitriol.

For an illustration of this, you can go and see the reaction that Watson's speech, though incredibly innocuous, attracted.

jill_valentine

banquo wrote: »

This: since when are movie stars too young to have experienced anything of life our go-to people on complicated social issues?

Watson is a twenty four year old with an IQ of something like 135, an Ivy League degree, and an international movie career since the age of ten.

Fair enough, she's not Aung San Suu Kyi, but I wouldn't go dismissing her quite so offhandedly.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

COYVB

Minera wrote: »

Why do you say that?

Because feminism, more often means anti-men. That's not equality, and I don't support it.

Equality I DO support, but equal equality not positive discrimination "equality". Replace man or woman with person in just about every case you can think of (work, education, politics etc) and that's the way equality should be manifested.

By that I don't mean don't use the gender words, that would be ridiculous, but I mean anyone applying for a job, arguing a point, running for office etc does so with their gender being irrelevant.

Best and most suitable person for everything in all cases.

THAT'S equality

candy-gal1

I very rarely if ever say or have said that I support feminism and the like because of a lot of things like it doesnt really mean equality between sexes for most people it means that women are better in a way so a bit hypocritical if you ask me!

but one in particular - If I say this and support this etc then surely that means/would mean that if men and women are equal then both should be treated the exact same both good and bad, if you do something kind to/for a woman then its got to be done for a man in equal measure! Now, although I wouldnt have a problem with this at all, would there be many men out there who would do this?! Or women for that matter!

Until that is proven that they would then feminism to me is just a great word for women to have in their heads - "confidence" etc :P:)

mrkiscool2

jill_valentine wrote: »

Have a look at any thread about feminism in AH and see how long it takes posters with chips on their shoulders - AH has a massive readership but you will see the same names every time - to take over and dissolve it into a conversation about men's rights or what feminism "actually" means, despite what the women and feminists there are actually telling them. They will do this without any self awareness whatsoever, even as they start talking about why it should be called "equalism"

At least in these parts, and in many others, yes feminism is treated as a dirty word which, no matter how qualified and diluted and disclaimered, will still invite immediate vitriol.

For an illustration of this, you can go and see the reaction that Watson's speech, though incredibly innocuous, attracted.

I'm not ashamed to say I'm probably one of those common names. If feminism really was for equality then it wouldn't claim men are more likely to be violent in relationships than women, it wouldn't claim men are the rapists in 99% of cases and only account for around 3% of all rape cases, it wouldn't claim that the patriarchy still exists and only holds women back. It wouldn't claim any of that along with a dozen other things.

This current campaign (I'll admit Emma Watson's speech is probably the closest men's rights have gotten to a full statement of "men matter too" from a feminist) is still extremely sexist in that although it promotes "gender equality" the name of the campaign is "HeForShe" which basically argues that men have to make sure women get equal rights, even though in every 1st world country they have equal legal rights and in most 3rd world countries women haven't gone through suffrage yet.

Feminists truly believe that men still hold them back and that they are better than men, which is utter madness. The sexes each have different things they are better out and all things considered it does balance out. There is a need for a movement that focuses on BOTH genders at the same time. Focusing on one gender to get equality is like fixing one side of a broken axel in a car. No matter how much you want it to drive straight it's going to keep veering one way.

ALiasEX

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

First wave feminism had their fare share of advantaging women over men. Starts at about 11:20

Women don't do as well => There's some discrimination.
Men don't do as well => Sure it's their own fault, men and women are different.

tritium

Great, another thread where certain posters can tell is feminism is really really about equality. How all those feminists who promote misandry are really just a minority/ aren't really feminists. And how men looking for their rights to get some focus are just whatabouters who should check their privelige.

Oh and then ignore all the evidence that might imply otherwise

BurnsCarpenter

tritium wrote: »

Great, another thread where certain posters can tell is feminism is really really about equality. How all those feminists who promote misandry are really just a minority/ aren't really feminists. And how men looking for their rights to get some focus are just whatabouters who should check their privelige.

Oh and then ignore all the evidence that might imply otherwise

Great, another thread where the men's rights crowd try to make out that misandry is an actual thing.

Recondite49

Minera wrote: »

I recently watched the video of Emma Watson making a speech about He for She at the U.N. and one of her of her points albeit not the main one, was feminism or being a feminist has certain connotations attatched to it.

By that I mean are both men and women afraid of saying they support gender equality for fear of being labelled as anti men?

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

I've always thought Feminism was a disease masquerading as its own cure. In particular for a group of people who complain so often of being patronised, it's not really helping for Emma Watson to stand up and tell us we've misunderstood what it's all about.

Yes love, I can read the dictionary and look up the word Feminism too - compare and contrast that with the modern movement which plays fast and loose with human rights, regularly upholds double standards and tries to undermine Justice by lowering the burden of proof for innocent men accused of rape.

Every time this subject comes up on here and every time some Feminist advocate tells me once again I haven't understood Feminism properly as I've "only" been looking at all the mainstream media campaigns as the principle spokeswomen for the movement - what I can say safely is that we know all we wish to know!

Mod

Folks, please discuss this like grown ups and without slinging mud back and forth.

If you are just going to shout while sticking your fingers in your ears when other people talk, then you will be asked to vacate the thread.

Let's all get along, shall we.

Recondite49

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Great, another thread where the men's rights crowd try to make out that misandry is an actual thing.

Try speaking to a few unmarried men about access rights to their children.

Try speaking to men (my own brother included!) who have been falsely accused of rape and seen their accuser go unpunished.

Try speaking to those men who have been victims of domestic violence by their female partner (indeed this is notoriously difficult).

No one is saying of course that women haven't been dealt an awful hand too but if you live in a society where an unfounded accusation can cause a man to lose his job or go to prison, it's hard not to see the bias against men that's there.

I try not to make too much of it because I know there are men out there who suffer much more, for much more pressing reasons such as poverty. Indeed something I've noticed about the double standards of Modern Feminism is that when it comes to countries where women actually discriminated against systematically by the state, they don't really have much to say.

Then when a rape scene is shown on TV they're falling over themselves to tell everyone how offended they are.

Frankly, I don't know who they think they're fooling, almost all the women I talk to these days quite categorically say they've no time for Feminism.

Recondite49

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

Folks, please discuss this like grown ups and without slinging mud back and forth.

If you are just going to shout while sticking your fingers in your ears when other people talk, then you will be asked to vacate the thread.

Let's all get along, shall we.

Don't worry Mod, I've had my say. If anyone these days is deluded enough to throw their lot in with the Femtards then I won't mock the afflicted.

Recondite49 signing off. You heard it here first. :-D

BurnsCarpenter

Recondite49 wrote: »

Try speaking to a few unmarried men about access rights to their children.

Try speaking to men (my own brother included!) who have been falsely accused of rape and seen their accuser go unpunished.

Try speaking to those men who have been victims of domestic violence by their female partner (indeed this is notoriously difficult).

No one is saying of course that women haven't been dealt an awful hand too but if you live in a society where an unfounded accusation can cause a man to lose his job or go to prison, it's hard not to see the bias against men that's there.

I try not to make too much of it because I know there are men out there who suffer much more, for much more pressing reasons such as poverty. Indeed something I've noticed about the double standards of Modern Feminism is that when it comes to countries where women actually discriminated against systematically by the state, they don't really have much to say.

Then when a rape scene is shown on TV they're falling over themselves to tell everyone how offended they are.

Frankly, I don't know who they think they're fooling, almost all the women I talk to these days quite categorically say they've no time for Feminism.

Some fair points, fathers rights in particular need to be addressed. But there isn't the same systematic oppression of men, the way there has been for women, and still is in many parts of the world. In my experience, misogyny is still a real thing but misandry is limited to a minority of crackpots.

Tombi!

Here's the problem: too many women are using feminism as a way to be sexist towards men and want more rights than men have.

So people equate that brand of feminism (nicely known as being a femnazi) with feminism. Which is incredibly stupid.
Then you have feminists who speak out against that kind of stuff and suddenly when they actually do bring up issues they're concerned over, it's down to "oh you're just like them".

Also given that you asked this in AH, I have to wonder if you're completely insane.

Edit: By too many, I mean a small vocal minority which is mostly on the internet and in magazines where they can rant and rave to their hearts content about the slightest of offensive issues.

tritium

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

Great, another thread where the men's rights crowd try to make out that misandry is an actual thing.

And there was I thinking that cause its in the dictionary it must exist

Guess if you put your fingers in your academic feminist ears and go lalalalala for long enough it really does make everything go away.

Mod

Recondite49 and tritium thread banned for ignoring earlier mod warning.

cookie24

Lets be honest here, her (token) invitation for men to join her movement is not in any way egalitarian, its more feminism.

Males need to join this movement because we are too weak to seek help for mental illness (bollix if you ask me).

Why not address the real areas of male discrimination if you want to be taken seriously as an egalitarian? Convictions, custody battles, domestic abuse against males, gender neutral constitution, cant think of anything else.

The only way one of these movements will work is if it is run by a male and female. Both with enough common sense to realize discrimination and sexism work both ways.

Perhaps UsforUs would be a better title for her campaign. Maybe get Harry involved too for equality.

Tombi!

But plenty of feminists do argue in favour of equal rights. As in, if a woman slaps you across the face she should be punished just as equally if a man did it.
Same with father's rights, same punishments for female rapists, etc.
Hell, plenty of women on Boards are in favour of the above, along with other things feminism is for.

Minera

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Here's the problem: too many women are using feminism as a way to be sexist towards men and want more rights than men have.

So people equate that brand of feminism (nicely known as being a femnazi) with feminism. Which is incredibly stupid.
Then you have feminists who speak out against that kind of stuff and suddenly when they actually do bring up issues they're concerned over, it's down to "oh you're just like them".

Also given that you asked this in AH, I have to wonder if you're completely insane.

Edit: By too many, I mean a small vocal minority which is mostly on the internet and in magazines where they can rant and rave to their hearts content about the slightest of offensive issues.

I put this in AH to garner different opinions from people if i had put it in e.g. The ladies lounge it may be somewhat biased.

I already knew why feminism had a bad name, but the way I see it extreme feminism (my view) is definitely anti men. I believe many women will not admit they believe in feminism as they are considered as being 'sexist'. I also believe that there will be a movement away from extreme feminism due to this which I think is the way forward for both sexes

I'm truly disheartened to find that a lot of opinions are against feminism, it done a lot for women and continues to do so maybe in the current climate a more pro equality approach is needed

gaffer91

The reason a lot of people now are critical of feminism is simply because it is worth criticising. You'll see a lot of feminists arguing for things like gender quotas on company boards and in parliaments, which are both obviously complete nonsense. They'll be citing easily debunked and untrue statistics about gender pay gaps and sexual assault on college campuses. Any disparity in achievement favouring males is because of misogyny and any disparity favouring females is ignored (see Permabear's earlier post).

Something that is extremely irritating is how you'll see feminists weigh in behind a woman with a complaint no matter how justified or not she is- e.g a woman was passed over for a promotion- you bet your bottom dollar it was because of sexism. I couldn't believe for instance the number of feminists weighing in on why Janet Yellen should be new chair of the Fed in the USA, and I'd question the economic credentials of many of them (feminists also think Larry Summers, her opponent, is a sexist so there was probably a double incentive to be vocal on this topic for them).

animaal

Feminism is about the advancement of women's interests, not neccessarily equality.

Wikipedia isn't always dependable - but in this case it starts with
"Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women".

I think this highlights the difficulty in defining feminism; historically many of its goals were about granting women rights that men already had. However, measures that reduce women's rights in an area so as to be equal to men's rights would not usually be seen as feminist measures. On the flip side, if a measure was proposed that advanced women's rights beyond those of men, it could still be seen as feminist.

Obviously, a person can support both feminism and equality without there being a conflict. Having said that, they may feel more strongly about one than the other.

Shenshen

I think the problem with the word "feminism" is that it's a label anybody can use if they feel like it. So you end up with people who actually are blatant man-haters labelling themselves with the same word as people who are really concerned about gender equality and will speak up for both genders.

Growing up, the feminist movement I witnessed fought for the right of prostitutes to have their profession legally recognised, they fought for the rights of unmarried fathers to get legislation that will guarantee them access to their children and some rights in their upbringing, they fought for men getting the same rights to parental leave as women, they fought for tax laws to be changed so that if a couple decided the woman wants to go back to work and he would stay home to look after the kids that would not cost them extra, and they fought internationally for the practice of female and male circumcision to be abandoned.

Since then, I've been to a good few other countries and seen a good few other "flavours" of feminism - not all of them pleasant at all.

To me, the word will remain to mean a movement for gender equality, not a promotion of women over men. In my eyes, it's a movement that should liberate both males and females from outdated and damaging gender-specific roles.
But even that notion still has its opponents.

KomradeBishop

Where do people get their exposure to feminists, that ends up building a stereotype of them, as negative/sexist?

I tend to give benefit of the doubt, that it's more a vocal minority - probably mostly online - that ends up giving that bad impression, but it'd be interesting to hear how others develop their impression.

lazybones32

Minera wrote: »

I recently watched the video of Emma Watson making a speech about He for She at the U.N. and one of her of her points albeit not the main one, was feminism or being a feminist has certain connotations attatched to it.

By that I mean are both men and women afraid of saying they support gender equality for fear of being labelled as anti men?

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

I never hesitate to say that I am anti-feminism (on-line or irl) and I'm sometimes met with the same shocked look until I explain myself.

Feminism is about advancing political issues that pertain to women and has nothing to do with equality. It is nothing to do whatsoever with equality but certain women want to enjoy the perceived benefits they think are the exclusive domain of men, without accepting the responsibility that comes with them.

I think a lot of the first-world women who subscribe to feminism do so because of their own insecurities and not because they are discriminated against in health, education, employment etc., because there are plenty of Public Bodies/Institutions willing to fight your corner if you do suffer discrimination in these areas.

I ask you OP, if you are a feminist and what discrimination you have personally experienced on account of your gender?

lazybones32

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Where do people get their exposure to feminists, that ends up building a stereotype of them, as negative/sexist?

I tend to give benefit of the doubt, that it's more a vocal minority - probably mostly online - that ends up giving that bad impression, but it'd be interesting to hear how others develop their impression.

Read feminist literature and experience it for yourself. The First-Wave feminists are the Founding Mothers of feminism and their bile is the basis for the current wave.

shruikan2553

Many feminist groups seem to just be looking for some way to feel oppressed and that their failures are not their fault but are part of some conspiracy against them.

KomradeBishop

lazybones32 wrote: »

Read feminist literature and experience it for yourself. The First-Wave feminists are the Founding Mothers of feminism and their bile is the basis for the current wave.

Problem there, is how do you tell when some of the literature may just be a vocal minority?

Are there good examples of such literature - or other popular resources on feminism? (either on the crazy/sexist end, or on the reasonable/egalitarian end?)

Czarcasm

I think feminism has always been a good thing for women. I think some people have a problem with it because nowadays, with the Internet, we're being bombarded with some of the more asinine elements of society that claim their behaviour, or their thought processes or whatever, are based on their idea of feminism. Ideas have become very individualistic and selfish, and anyone can say what they like and call themselves feminist (the young girl with the funky ideas about only maintaining 10% of the male population in her new world, gets more worldwide coverage than women here in this country who still have fcukall say over their own reproductive rights). There's definitely something wrong there.

It's why I don't particularly care much for feminism, or any other kind of 'ism' for that matter. People are of course entitled to advocate for what and who they want, by whatever means necessary (peacefully would be nice), but because I cannot identify with any of these ideologies, I'll conserve my energy for those people in my local community whom I can actually help, as opposed to some cause on the other side of the planet that I have no clue about, and is unlikely ever to affect me personally.

I'm selfish and individualistic like that...

smurgen

Unless you've some sort of problem I don't think you really need to gravitate towards such groups or labels. I'm not fond of feminism the way I'm not fond of ladishness.I just don't get either. I see women as equal and I think they should be be treated the same as me. The same rewards for good behaviour and same punishment for bad behaviour.

lazybones32

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Problem there, is how do you tell when some of the literature may just be a vocal minority?

Are there good examples of such literature - or other popular resources on feminism? (either on the crazy/sexist end, or on the reasonable/egalitarian end?)

Anything by Valerie Solanas ("eradicate men") or Germaine Greer ("taste your own menstrual blood") would be a decent starter for the more radicalised/militant view.

smurgen

lazybones32 wrote: »

Anything by Valerie Solanas ("eradicate men") or Germaine Greer ("taste your own menstrual blood") would be a decent starter for the more radicalised/militant view.

Those women have psychological problems and are not representative of most women I'd imagine.

steddyeddy

Minera wrote: »

I recently watched the video of Emma Watson making a speech about He for She at the U.N. and one of her of her points albeit not the main one, was feminism or being a feminist has certain connotations attatched to it.

By that I mean are both men and women afraid of saying they support gender equality for fear of being labelled as anti men?

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

Why not call it gender equality and not feminism? That implies duty to only one gender.

Carlos Orange

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why not call it gender equality and not feminism? That implies duty to only one gender.

She was launching a campaign called He for She......

RDM_83 again

jill_valentine wrote: »

Have a look at any thread about feminism in AH and see how long it takes posters with chips on their shoulders - AH has a massive readership but you will see the same names every time - to take over and dissolve it into a conversation about men's rights or what feminism "actually" means, despite what the women and feminists there are actually telling them. They will do this without any self awareness whatsoever, even as they start talking about why it should be called "equalism"

Whats wrong with actually working out what Feminism actually means.
I mean when you talk about nearly any other major social movement its pretty easy to work out what sub-set someone is coming from and you can make a cohesive argument for and against.

The sheer broadness of the term feminism means that it essentially means nothing unless you pin down the specifics.

For example in a 1st or 2nd wave (or pre1970's/80's) context in western europe or the present day in other parts of the world, I could legitimately call myself a feminist because I believe in absolute equality between genders in terms of the law and franchise, the equality opportunity in terms of education and employment, and freedom from judgmentq for confirming to traditional gender roles.

At the same time I could be considered as an "anti-feminist" in that I don't believe that many of the issues raised by current Western feminism are coming from a desire to increase equality or protection of rights instead many of them seem to be about self-interest while ignoring issues that would be of greater importance to a true gender equality movement.

smurgen

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whats wrong with actually working out what Feminism actually means.
I mean when you talk about nearly any other major social movement its pretty easy to work out what sub-set someone is coming from and you can make a cohesive argument for and against.

The sheer broadness of the term feminism means that it essentially means nothing unless you pin down the specifics.

For example in a 1st or 2nd wave (or pre1970's/80's) context in western europe or the present day in other parts of the world, I could legitimately call myself a feminist because I believe in absolute equality between genders in terms of the law and franchise, the equality opportunity in terms of education and employment, and freedom from judgmentq for confirming to traditional gender roles.

At the same time I could be considered as an "anti-feminist" in that I don't believe that many of the issues raised by current Western feminism are coming from a desire to increase equality or protection of rights instead many of them seem to be about self-interest while ignoring issues that would be of greater importance to a true gender equality movement.

Very well put. I don't a quick read of the wiki page on feminism and one of the sections that caught my eye was the sections on transgender. It seems that a lot of.the militant feminist movements are very intolerant towards transgender folk. An interesting dynamic I never considered.

Pawwed Rig

Many who identify as Feminists indeed believe in equality and think feminism equals equality. They are unfortunately represented by the nuttier elements through the media and politics (Ivana Bacik and Una Mullally being good examples in Ireland) who push themselves forward as feminists but are effectively female supremacists who see all men as the root of all evil. People, such as they, actively seek inequality by advocating different treatments based on gender under the banner of feminism.
I would also add that gender studies courses in colleges push a solely feminist agenda dressing up what should be an analysis of each genders position pros and cons into a study on women alone. It is via these kind of courses that a 'groupthink' develops and spews many with disfunctional theories, which would be abhorrent to most right thinking people, into society further contaminating the feminist gene pool. People like those, who I discuss above imho, make feminism a dirty word and something I refuse to identify with whilst being a staunch defender of equality in all guises.

hatrickpatrick

I find the opposite, I hesitate to disassociate myself from feminism lest I be labelled anti-equality.

"Feminism" now stands for more than just equal rights, it also has a very nasty PC streak which seeks to impose restrictions on content and speech across the board (banning lads mags, banning page 3, trying to get "offensive" songs banned, pressuring companies to remove products which are "offensive" etc) - nothing whatsoever to do with equality and IMO a good enough reason to oppose the "feminist" label.

Czarcasm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I find the opposite, I hesitate to disassociate myself from feminism lest I be labelled anti-equality.

"Feminism" now stands for more than just equal rights, it also has a very nasty PC streak which seeks to impose restrictions on content and speech across the board (banning lads mags, banning page 3, trying to get "offensive" songs banned, pressuring companies to remove products which are "offensive" etc) - nothing whatsoever to do with equality and IMO a good enough reason to oppose the "feminist" label.

I don't think most people would label you anti-equality Patrick for wanting to dissociate yourself from what again most people would see as advocating censorship rather than gender equality.

That's what I meant earlier about all these 'isms' having lost all their meaning really, because there's no cohesion any more, and anyone can advocate for what they like and call themselves feminist. I mean, just in the example above -

There are women that love glamour modelling and have made good careers for themselves from it, and then there are women that would want to take those choices away from women. Both advocates can call themselves feminists!

It's all very confusing to me personally as I think feminism is about advocating for support for women and women's freedom to choose their own path in life and offer them opportunities to reach those goals, but more and more it seems to have become - if you're not with us, you're against us, and so we end up with a situation like Patrick above, who identifies as feminist, because he's too afraid to say he doesn't support some women who have some funky ideas he doesn't agree with, and then you have the likes of a guy who self identifies as feminist because he advocates for an end to the practice of male circumcision, and I'm just left feeling a bit....

"Huh??"

Adamantium

Why is it called feminism of it's about equality?

I also have to laugh at the #HeforShe tagline, what happened to being a strong independent woman who needs no man? Logic fails me, or her in this case. Time for women to start looking inward and take responsibility.

Frankly if you typed what she said into a text to speech program, the content of what she spoke isn't anything different from what has already been said in a 1000 different lifetimes, it's the accent that people fawned over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0euhM6bjg

RDM_83 again

smurgen wrote: »

Very well put. I don't a quick read of the wiki page on feminism and one of the sections that caught my eye was the sections on transgender. It seems that a lot of.the militant feminist movements are very intolerant towards transgender folk. An interesting dynamic I never considered.

I don't know I certainly wouldn't lump the majority of feminists with the lunatic fringe of actual misandrists (many of whom might actually simply be misanthropes anyway), I might disagree with some of the methods and goals of modern mainstream feminism however you can't compare them to the rad-fem fringe.
However its up to the more mainstream feminism to disassociate themselves and say "these people do not speak for me", something thats remarkably absent compared to how other groups that have a similar extremist fringe consistently do RE: Northern Irish Nationalists or moderate Left wing political movements.

Minera wrote: »

What do board.ie members think of this would you hesitate to say that you are for or against feminism or would you hesitate in giving your opinion others for fear of being ridiculed?

IMO you have to be extremely careful how phrase any criticism of feminism because its ridiculously easy to cause unintentional offense or come across as "having a chip in your shoulder", both of which will be used to invalidate any of your points.

On a converse note I presume since this site is about 70% male userbase (i think), feminism particularly in its current mode with its emphasis on calling men to action to 'reforming' male attitudes/behavior and its tendency to portray men as a monolithic group, its never going to be particularly well received by this audience and suffer from a kneejerk reaction (which I know I have occasionally been guilty off myself).

RayM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They are unfortunately represented by the nuttier elements through the media and politics (Ivana Bacik and Una Mullally being good examples in Ireland) who push themselves forward as feminists but are effectively female supremacists who see all men as the root of all evil. People, such as they, actively seek inequality by advocating different treatments based on gender under the banner of feminism.

I'm not that familiar with Una Mullally's opinions (I generally find her writing a bit annoying, whatever the topic), but I've never seen anything to suggest that Ivana Bacik is a 'female supremacist'. It actually sounds like a really ludicrous thing to say.