If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 9:56am

Gone Drinking wrote: »

He's not bro-British or just anti-Irish:

Also its the manner in which he comments, hes obviously here purely to troll.

I never said he was pro-British or anti-Irish (obviously is however). I read the comment quoted when I was watching that thread. He came across as quite happy when Scotland voted no to independence.

FTA69 · 20-09-2014 10:00am

Honestly like, these threads always bemuse the f*ck out of me. It's mad that after years of attempted suppression of the concept of an Irish nation and a long and hard struggle for independence; people still retain this bizarre filial attachment to a former colonial power. Frantz Fanon wrote a lot about this phenomenon, namely the belief that the former colonised people were conditioned to believe they were fundamentally inept and could only be better served by union or subservience to a colonial entity.

Ireland has problems. Massive structural ones that go to the heart of the state here. If the state is to serve the ordinary people of Ireland as opposed to an elite or well-connected political and economic class then it indeed needs systematic reform. However, the onus to achieve that change lies with us, the Irish people themselves; acting in their own interests and on their own behalf on their own steam. The average person in Ireland isn't going to be best served in the long run by subsuming itself into a monarchist state which is myopically governed from a mega city in the south east of England.

People can dress this b*llocks about rejoining the UK/Commonwealth etc as being "mature" or "pragmatic" all they want, the fact remains it's the same cringing, unimaginative nonsense it always was. Irish history was always littered with these sort of idiots, unfortunately they seem to be making a come back these days.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:07am

Ireland can't afford to link up with the most isolated state in the EU. The Americans wouldn't be happy with it since they are pro-EU and the rest of the EU wouldn't be happy with one of the most pro-EU states joining one of the most anti-EU states.

Relationships with the US and the rest of the EU are more important than joining the UK. No point isolating yourself and ruining your trade surplus, lowering your GDP per head, lowering your mean PISA scores, lowering your HDI etc.

What would happen with the USA ties and the 12.5% tax rate? There are about 500 US companies in Ireland directly employing roughly 160,000 people. Follow the US/Europe, not the UK.

FTA69 · 20-09-2014 10:08am

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Ireland can't afford to link up with the most isolated state in the EU. The Americans wouldn't be happy with it since they are pro-EU and the rest of the EU wouldn't be happy with one of the most pro-EU states joining one of the most anti-EU states.

That's nonsense. The US is closer to the UK than any other country in Europe. The USA probably wouldn't give two f*ck's what Ireland does believe it or not.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:16am

FTA69 wrote: »

That's nonsense. The US is closer to the UK than any other country in Europe. The USA probably wouldn't give two f*ck's what Ireland does believe it or not.

What leads you to think this exactly?

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 10:19am

FTA69 wrote: »

Honestly like, these threads always bemuse the f*ck out of me. It's mad that after years of attempted suppression of the concept of an Irish nation and a long and hard struggle for independence; people still retain this bizarre filial attachment to a former colonial power. Frantz Fanon wrote a lot about this phenomenon, namely the belief that the former colonised people were conditioned to believe they were fundamentally inept and could only be better served by union or subservience to a colonial entity.

Ireland has problems. Massive structural ones that go to the heart of the state here. If the state is to serve the ordinary people of Ireland as opposed to an elite or well-connected political and economic class then it indeed needs systematic reform. However, the onus to achieve that change lies with us, the Irish people themselves; acting in their own interests and on their own behalf on their own steam. The average person in Ireland isn't going to be best served in the long run by subsuming itself into a monarchist state which is myopically governed from a mega city in the south east of England.

People can dress this b*llocks about rejoining the UK/Commonwealth etc as being "mature" or "pragmatic" all they want, the fact remains it's the same cringing, unimaginative nonsense it always was. Irish history was always littered with these sort of idiots, unfortunately they seem to be making a come back these days.

Don't know about any of that - my views are formed from my experience of growing up here, and living in the UK, US, Germany and NZ.

If I have an affinity for the UK and NZ it's because of the hospitality I was shown there when I lived in those countries. It makes you realise that the idea that this is a 'great little country' is a load of horsesh1t - it could be great though.

The defining experience for me was when one of my kids got seriously ill in the UK - I wasn't once asked to pay for anything - the ICU, the helicopter transfers, the advanced medication etc all covered. The post-treatment review with the physicians was mindblowing.

Fast forward a couple of years and another child fell ill - the experience of the HSE in a republic that is supposed to 'cherish' its children would have put the Yanks to shame. No sooner had he been transferred from one hospital to another than the first hospital was phoning and chasing for 'their' money. No discussion / interaction with the medical team ("Family liaison? What's that?"), everything beyond the most basic care had to be paid for.

If the measure of a country is how well it treats its children, then as far as I'm concerned the Republic failed its test when it came to my family.

gordongekko · 20-09-2014 10:21am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah great Empire it was built on slavery and murder.

Enough about mayo we are talking about rejoining the UK.

c_man · 20-09-2014 10:23am

Hmm, should we join the UK? Well I'm not keen on the whole invading/bombing countries lark that they go on with nearly continually, nor the clampdown on freedoms/covering up of gross police excess all in the name of the War on Terror, can't say I'd be happy with the class system and huge inequalities which their system rejoices in, the whole right-wing anti-immigrant strain in their politics doesn't sit well with me, I don't want to be one of the world's biggest arms exporters, I don't really want to contribute taxes to white elephants like the twenty billion on Trident... Add to that I don't think putting an 'NHS' sign above our hospitals would actually achieve anything.

So that's a No from me anyways.

smurgen · 20-09-2014 10:23am

Why would we want to join a union with them? We have one of the highest standards of living in the World, there's is much lower in comparison. We are also a non militarized nation while they seem gun ho to get into every dirty war going. Ireland is a utopia compared to the U.K, anyone posing such a question or strongly supporting it must be trolling.

Having lived in continental Europe and in the U.K i can tell you that we are actually far similar to the Italians and French that the English in terms of sense of humor and values. I'm actually very surprised when people say we're very like the English, I see very little similarities.Just because we speak the same language doesn't make us similar.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 10:23am

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Ireland can't afford to link up with the most isolated state in the EU. The Americans wouldn't be happy with it since they are pro-EU and the rest of the EU wouldn't be happy with one of the most pro-EU states joining one of the most anti-EU states.

Relationships with the US and the rest of the EU are more important than joining the UK. No point isolating yourself and ruining your trade surplus, lowering your GDP per head, lowering your mean PISA scores, lowering your HDI etc.

What would happen with the USA ties and the 12.5% tax rate? There are about 500 US companies in Ireland directly employing roughly 160,000 people. Follow the US/Europe, not the UK.

The US is pretty much anti-EU! They are anti anything that threatens their power / influence in the international setting - the last thing they'd want is an organised and coherent EU.

Just look at how their attitude to France has morphed over the last 10 years or so - France apparently is now their 'oldest ally' - only a few years ago they were changing the name of French fries to Freedom Fries!!

There's 'Old Europe' and 'New Europe' in their view.

Henry Sidney · 20-09-2014 10:29am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Have a look at this guys post history and please tell me why he hasn't been banned yet?

Yeah, ban me because I don't agree with you. Typical.

smurgen · 20-09-2014 10:31am

Jawgap wrote: »

The US is pretty much anti-EU! They are anti anything that threatens their power / influence in the international setting - the last thing they'd want is an organised and coherent EU.

Just look at how their attitude to France has morphed over the last 10 years or so - France apparently is now their 'oldest ally' - only a few years ago they were changing the name of French fries to Freedom Fries!!

There's 'Old Europe' and 'New Europe' in their view.

exactly! If anything Ireland and the E.U should be integrating more to counter the U.S global influence.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:32am

Jawgap wrote: »

The US is pretty much anti-EU! They are anti anything that threatens their power / influence in the international setting - the last thing they'd want is an organised and coherent EU.

Just look at how their attitude to France has morphed over the last 10 years or so - France apparently is now their 'oldest ally' - only a few years ago they were changing the name of French fries to Freedom Fries!!

There's 'Old Europe' and 'New Europe' in their view.

Anti-Eu yet wants more and more states to join the EU? Obama warned the UK they should stay in the EU while the UK position on EU membership was being criticised in Brussels and Dublin (why would they do this is they were anti-EU? Explain it). They are also fully supportive of Turkey (who they are friendly with) joining. Pretty much everything they come out with shows they are pro-EU.

Germany is the main trading partner they have in Europe and France is their oldest ally now. I was wondering why a previous member tried to tell me the UK is the most important European state to the US.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:38am

smurgen wrote: »

exactly! If anything Ireland and the E.U should be integrating more to counter the U.S global influence.

No the EU and US should be integrating more to counter China. Which is why the US are pro-EU.

That US global influence that directly creates 160,000 jobs for Irish people so bad is it?

Berserker · 20-09-2014 10:42am

No to reject rejoining the Union

smurgen wrote: »

Having lived in continental Europe and in the U.K i can tell you that we are actually far similar to the Italians and French that the English in terms of sense of humor and values. I'm actually very surprised when people say we're very like the English, I see very little similarities.Just because we speak the same language doesn't make us similar.

We are identical to them. How on earth could we have the same humor as French and Italian people when we don't even speak the same language as them? Most Irish people are monolingual, just like the people in the UK. Most Italian and French people, particularly the younger generations, are bilingual. Have you ever visited France. I speak French and go there because it is so different to us in cultural terms (lifestyle in particular). I think we could learn some stuff from them actually.

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Ireland can't afford to link up with the most isolated state in the EU. The Americans wouldn't be happy with it since they are pro-EU and the rest of the EU wouldn't be happy with one of the most pro-EU states joining one of the most anti-EU states.

The USA is massively anti-EU. They feel threatened by the size and power that the EU has, as it competes with their USA. Lots of Americans believe that they are the biggest and best at everything and the rest of the world looks up to them in awe. A federal union with the UK would be very good for us, once we maintained our own government here which could set our tax rates etc. We could get rid of the god awful Euro. Building stronger ties with your neighbours can only be a good thing.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:44am

Berserker wrote: »

The USA is massively anti-EU. They feel threatened by the size and power that the EU has, as it competes with their USA. Lots of Americans believe that they are the biggest and best at everything and the rest of the world looks up to them in awe. A federal union with the UK would be very good for us, once we maintained our own government here which could set our tax rates etc. We could get rid of the god awful Euro. Building stronger ties with your neighbours can only be a good thing.

Threatened by the size and power yet want more countries to join and warning the UK to stay? How does this make any sense whatsoever? You're just making up things in your head and going with it it seems. The US are worried about China, not the EU.

DLMA23 · 20-09-2014 10:46am

Needs 'fúck off' option added to poll

irishfeen · 20-09-2014 10:48am

I'd be on the first plane out of here - it's a prospect that would horrify me ... We are one of the most successful independent countries in the world, we are much better off running our own affairs.

We can be best of friends and neighbours with the UK but roommates is totally out of the question.

smurgen · 20-09-2014 10:50am

Colinf1212 wrote: »

No the EU and US should be integrating more to counter China. Which is why the US are pro-EU.

That US global influence that directly creates 160,000 jobs for Irish people so bad is it?

no, they only suit U.S interests, they were caught spying on many European heads of states. any war which the E.U isn't backing that the U.S are shows the difference between the two. the recent war in Gaza being one, the war in Ukraine another. They have no respect for the opinion of the E.U and have a thin veneer of friendship with them. The best example of this in recent history was assistant secretary of State Victoria Nuland say " **** the E.U" in relation to Europe's hesitation to "pick a fight" with Moscow.

Berserker · 20-09-2014 10:52am

No to reject rejoining the Union

irishfeen wrote: »

We are one of the most successful independent countries in the world, we are much better off running our own affairs.

Given what has happened over the past 10 to 15 years in this country w.r.t. our financial "issues", child abuse scandals and mass baby graves, for a start, that is one hell of a statement.

DLMA23 · 20-09-2014 10:52am

smurgen wrote: »

Europe's hesitation to "pick a fight" with Europe.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 10:53am

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Anti-Eu yet wants more and more states to join the EU? Obama warned the UK they should stay in the EU while the UK position on EU membership was being criticised in Brussels and Dublin (why would they do this is they were anti-EU? Explain it). They are also fully supportive of Turkey (who they are friendly with) joining. Pretty much everything they come out with shows they are pro-EU.

Germany is the main trading partner they have in Europe and France is their oldest ally now. I was wondering why a previous member tried to tell me the UK is the most important European state to the US.

Yes of course they do- the governance structures in the EU are ponderous and complex - the more countries you add the more complexity you add the more inefficient it becomes - that suits the US.

The US are opportunists plus if France, Germany etc are so important to the US why won't they admit them to the Five Eyes agreement? And agree to stop spying on them?

Manach · 20-09-2014 10:54am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Given the centrality of economic power in Brussels, perhaps the discussion is moot.

darkdubh · 20-09-2014 10:54am

ZZZZ,this trolling crap comes around every few weeks find some other wind up topic.

smurgen · 20-09-2014 10:57am

DLMA23 wrote: »

fixed,meant to say Moscow

irishfeen · 20-09-2014 10:58am

Berserker wrote: »

Given what has happened over the past 10 to 15 years in this country w.r.t. our financial "issues", child abuse scandals and mass baby graves, for a start, that is one hell of a statement.

You could pick out things from every countries history ... Germany and the war, Britain and the empire, Australia and the aborigines, the US and slavery.. Etc.

We are of course one of the most successful countries in the world - things might seem better over the hedge but they rarely ever are.

Have a bit of pride in modern Ireland, we have built a very successful country from almost nothing.

Colinf1212 · 20-09-2014 10:59am

Jawgap wrote: »

And agree to stop spying on them?

You're pro joining the UK but against spying? Didn't a British leak say Ireland is being spied on by the UK from top-to-bottom?

The_Valeyard · 20-09-2014 11:00am

Absolute NO.

Those voting yes in here are traitors and dangerous to the Republic.

Ralf and Florian · 20-09-2014 11:00am

Berserker wrote: »

Given what has happened over the past 10 to 15 years in this country w.r.t. our financial "issues", child abuse scandals and mass baby graves, for a start, that is one hell of a statement.

The Jimmy Saville and Rotherham cases show we don't exactly hold a monopoly on establishment complicit child abuse.

Yggr of Asgard · 20-09-2014 11:02am

I think this public poll is a plan of Sinn Féin to gather names of people they want to deport once they win the next general election.

irishfeen · 20-09-2014 11:03am

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

The Jimmy Saville and Rotherham cases show we don't exactly hold a monopoly on establishment complicit child abuse.

Yep, as I said things always seem greener on the other side but stand back and the rarely if ever are.

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-09-2014 11:06am

No to reject rejoining the Union

dublin-texas wrote: »

I think this public poll is a plan of Sinn Féin to gather names of people they want to deport once they win the next general election.

Thankfully that will never happen.

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-09-2014 11:06am

No to reject rejoining the Union

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Absolute NO.

Those voting yes in here are traitors and dangerous to the Republic.

:rolleyes:

Lenin Skynard · 20-09-2014 11:12am

The poll says it all and that's on boards which is notoriously full of west Brit types. I'd wager a poll in real life would be more like 95% against.

Joining the United States would get more support, as crazy as an idea as that would be.

SpaceTime · 20-09-2014 11:12am

diomed wrote: »

I've had enough of "the mainland, "British isles", "Paddies", "Micks".
I'll stay with the enormous debt and the begrudgery.

They have an enormous debt, formalised begrudgey based on the class system AND a huge face deficit!

People always forget that the UK isn't exactly a perfectly run paradise.

Ireland still has higher rankings on all sorts of quality of life and human development indices.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 11:12am

Colinf1212 wrote: »

You're pro joining the UK but against spying? Didn't a British leak say Ireland is being spied on by the UK from top-to-bottom?

I'm not sure where you get that I'm pro joking the UK????

I'm pro having the conversation and pro - in certain circumstances - possibly joining a federation with Scotland, Wales, England and NI.

If you read my posts you'd see I was pretty clear on the institution of monarchy - can you have a United KINGDOM without a monarch?

So it's difficult to see how you arrived at the conclusion that I am pro joining something which wouldn't exist

EDIT: as for the spying, people can't be surprised that the Brits spy on us can they? Anyway in terms of monitoring out communications I'd say our good friends the Americans with that nice Offaly-man in charge and that nice Roscommon man in the CIA are way ahead in the spying on Irish citizens game.

Cienciano · 20-09-2014 11:13am

Imagine country nightclubs playing God Save The Queen before closing? And everyone standing up with their hand on their chest?
I'd imagine in a real poll the result would be about 98% no

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-09-2014 11:15am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Cienciano wrote: »

Imagine country nightclubs playing God Save The Queen before closing? And everyone standing up with their hand on their chest?
I'd imagine in a real poll the result would be about 98% no

Why would this happen? I have never seen this happen in a night club

Berserker · 20-09-2014 11:16am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Cienciano wrote: »

Imagine country nightclubs playing God Save The Queen before closing? And everyone standing up with their hand on their chest?
I'd imagine in a real poll the result would be about 98% no

What nightclub plays the national anthem at the end of the night? I have never been in one that does. How awfully tacky! Anyway the anthem wouldn't chance nor the flag. I know you Republicans are obsessed with flags. You clearly don't understand what a federal union means also.

Fratton Fred · 20-09-2014 11:16am

No to reject rejoining the Union

SpaceTime wrote: »

They have an enormous debt, formalised begrudgey based on the class system AND a huge face deficit!

People always forget that the UK isn't exactly a perfectly run paradise.

Ireland still has higher rankings on all sorts of quality of life and human development indices.

What's a face deficit?

Da Shins Kelly · 20-09-2014 11:17am

I don't know where people are getting this idea that Irish culture and British culture are somehow synonymous. There are many blatant differences. For a start, good luck defining whatever British culture is anymore. It's not a country with a homogeneous cultural, religious or ethnic identity in the way that Ireland is, it's not even close to it, and that's an issue that raises its head in some good ways and in plenty of bad ways too. I think there are just some people who wish they were more like your typical British person. The reality is, nobody seems to know what "typically British" means anymore.

As for the question, I don't feel like getting into the myriad of reasons for why I don't think it would be a good idea, so **** off is what I would simply say to that.

Fratton Fred · 20-09-2014 11:17am

No to reject rejoining the Union

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

The poll says it all and that's on boards which is notoriously full of west Brit types.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

c_man · 20-09-2014 11:19am

Berserker wrote: »

You clearly don't understand what a federal union means also.

The thread is clearly titled asking about rejoining the union. Of course the flag would change.

Lenin Skynard · 20-09-2014 11:20am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

Your ears must have been burning.

ZeitgeistGlee · 20-09-2014 11:25am

pedro1234 wrote: »

If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

1. Yes to accept rejoining the Union.
2. No to reject rejoining the Union.

Not as it currently stands, but if the four constituent nations were to form a new Republic based on equal voting rights with a clean slate across the board (constitution, flag, currency, etc) then we might have something to talk about.

DLMA23 · 20-09-2014 11:28am

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Not as it currently stands, but if the four constituent nations were to form a new Republic based on equal voting rights with a clean slate across the board (constitution, flag, currency, etc) then we might have something to talk about.

Utopian concept, nice in theory but humans being humans, doubtful it would work

SpaceTime · 20-09-2014 11:30am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What's a face deficit?

It's what happens when you type on Google Keyboard.

Jawgap · 20-09-2014 11:32am

DLMA23 wrote: »

Utopian concept, nice in theory but humans being humans, doubtful it would work

I agree.

Countries coming together to share sovereignty, develop socially progressive policies and enter into shared institutions with a common currency will never catch on........

..........despite what the EU would have us believe

The Golden Miller · 20-09-2014 11:38am

I'd rather cut my testicles off than rejoin the UK. They can fcuk off. Lost complete respect for the Scottish too. Cowards. The next Scot that comes up to me in a kilt and bangs on about Braveheart or some other such rubbish......well sh1ts gonna go down. Spineless useless clowns

The Golden Miller · 20-09-2014 11:40am

67 people need to be reefed up to the Wicklow mountains and given a good kicking

If the UK asked Ireland to rejoin the Union, how would you vote?

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