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2014 Cups & Shields

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭Ciaranra


    I'm going to stick my name down and if I see Cill Dara on the draw . I'm heading to Croker to see the Dubs win instead.

    lads shooting 2/3/4/5 over off 10.

    Lol. Another gametoto lads .

    Lads i don't blame individuals . It is the system and the GUI.
    If you play to your full potential in qualifying comps. You are no good to a team .

    To be honest cill dara will need to rebuild this team we must have 5 lads gone 2 low
    And i will prob be watching the Dubs myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,823 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I agree with Russman

    people do not understand what a bandit is and boards here are golfing technocrats . And not down and dirty (should we say).

    Most golfers in the real world are chasing 40 points.

    I'm starting a new thread here . My journey to 12 and interclub intergalactic cutless heroics.


    Give us a break on title. Only came up with idea now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭mafc


    Russman wrote: »
    From the what ??:)

    Well then (slightly tongue in cheek) everyone is a bandit, because pretty much everyone plays better in a casual or practice game than they do in competition. So if everyone is a bandit all we're arguing about is degrees of banditry......

    You've just nailed it there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,823 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    And to add to it.

    This moral high ground that lads seem to adapt.

    Be as low as you can.
    ignore interclubs
    don't enter clasics
    stay away from that.

    These lads claim to be on a higher level.

    But most don't seem very happy at all.

    People who have a handicap they can play to . Are having a wondrous life of joy and fun and variety. .

    A bandit is a great life.

    How do I start ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Russman wrote: »
    From the what ??:)

    Well then (slightly tongue in cheek) everyone is a bandit, because pretty much everyone plays better in a casual or practice game than they do in competition. So if everyone is a bandit all we're arguing about is degrees of banditry......
    :)
    Must despatch a missive to the lexicographers ! Definiton not clear enough !



    Nothing to do with playing performance in casual versus competitive rounds.



    And I think the definition is pretty close to good:
    Handicaps are determined by performance in competitive rounds so casual games do not enter the issue.

    What puts you into the bandit category is any attempt to manipulate your handicap whether done by
    - deciding to enter or not a competition because of your form, the weather, the type of event itself, or concern that you might be cut for a minor competition with loot or glory not worth being cut for, not returning cards on a frequent enough basis for your handicap to represent your playing form, or not entering comps 'in case' you are cut and would be outside a team comp qualification the following year
    - not letting your scores represent without interference your playing level on the day : i.e. 'pulling' on the last couple of holes being the most extreme example
    - not returning your card if it will trigger an even minor cut, because you reckon its not good enough to win or will only be an also run


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Russman


    I agree with Russman

    people do not understand what a bandit is and boards here are golfing technocrats . And not down and dirty (should we say).

    Most golfers in the real world are chasing 40 points.

    I'm starting a new thread here . My journey to 12 and interclub intergalactic cutless heroics.


    Give us a break on title. Only came up with idea now.

    You need more time to get a proper title !!

    Ah no, seriously, I think the banditry is overstated in a way. Yes there are teams that take the p1ss and it's well known, but, for a start, there's not a whole lot you can do about it, when clubs actively "build" teams or try to. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and handicap secretaries won't go cutting potential team members unless there's a VERY good reason.

    The overstating element is that I think most players, if they're honest, will admit they have a shot or two in hand if they play well. It's probably not intentional, its just the way golf is. The guy who manages to keep his head and play well will probably win his match - do this enough times and he'll be called a bandit, when all he's really done is find a way to play his normal game on the "big" stage if you like. So many guys play a different game to their normal game when they're playing for the club, looking at putts from every direction, taking too long on shots, looking for yardages etc, basically doing things that are completely outside their normal comfort zone and they play woeful or much worse than normal. When they lose to a guy who just plays "his" game, inevitably the winning guy gets tarred.

    I know earlier I said a metro player shooting 9 over won't win, and I believe that's true in the latter stages, but it's also surprising how often simply playing in or around your handicap would win a lot of matches. Barton Cup matches are regularly won by pairs who are almost averaging a bogey a hole or only a shot or two better, likewise in Metro. Four 90s almost always qualifies very easily in PP. Four 80s walked in in the junior cup this year on a par 70, and that's from 5 handicappers. Don't get disheartened by tales of rogues, inter club is mostly a fantastic experience. It's a bit like customer reviews, you only usually see the bad ones. It's rare to hear someone say "inter club is great, I played a guy who was as sh1t as me on the day, but I managed to get the win," it's always the "I was beaten by a bandit" story that gets the attention.

    And avoid the PP, you actually really do need a team of rogues to win that one !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭mafc


    And to add to it.

    This moral high ground that lads seem to adapt.

    Be as low as you can.
    ignore interclubs
    don't enter clasics
    stay away from that.

    These lads claim to be on a higher level.

    But most don't seem very happy at all.

    People who have a handicap they can play to . Are having a wondrous life of joy and fun and variety. .

    A bandit is a great life.

    How do I start ?

    Match play is completely different to playing singles stroke /stableford. You can win holes with 5's & 6"s, it's just about getting it in the hole one less than your opponent. Lads handle the pressure differently so it's not always the "better" golfer that wins the match.

    Don't knock it till you try it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Russman


    :)
    Must despatch a missive to the lexicographers ! Definiton not clear enough !



    Nothing to do with playing performance in casual versus competitive rounds.



    And I think the definition is pretty close to good:
    Handicaps are determined by performance in competitive rounds so casual games do not enter the issue.

    What puts you into the bandit category is any attempt to manipulate your handicap whether done by
    - deciding to enter or not a competition because of your form, the weather, the type of event itself, or concern that you might be cut for a minor competition with loot or glory not worth being cut for, not returning cards on a frequent enough basis for your handicap to represent your playing form, or not entering comps 'in case' you are cut and would be outside a team comp qualification the following year
    - not letting your scores represent without interference your playing level on the day : i.e. 'pulling' on the last couple of holes being the most extreme example
    - not returning your card if it will trigger an even minor cut, because you reckon its not good enough to win or will only be an also run

    Totally agree with all that expect the bolded part. Can't see how not playing, say for the club, because I'm playing rubbish makes me a bandit. Same for deciding not to play because it's pi$$ing rain and blowing a hooley.

    The "pulling" argument I'm slightly wary of. It comes down to intent obviously, so only the player will know for sure but passing judgement on someone for pulling is iffy. The best player in the world took 4 putts on a green last night, if he can do that, surely a 15 handicapper can too, at the most inopportune time.

    I think a simpler definition of a bandit is someone who is carrying a few shots and can produce the good scores when required. I suspect a lot fewer people would be classed as bandits using this criteria, as people rarely play to others' expectations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Russman wrote: »
    The "pulling" argument I'm slightly wary of. It comes down to intent obviously

    Pulling is by definition with intent. Whether the intent is there, as you say only the player really knows.

    But I think we have all known the guy who scrubs the last two holes in a Tueday small field open with token prizes when he was heading for 39. But it is no way nerves or pressure - as proven a few weeks later when he gets a few pars or birdies to pull of a prestige win in a Captains or something more to his taste.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    The form or the weather are not strictly the bandits thinking, more that of the vanity handicapper who fears the likelyhood of getting a point one - and doesnt want it. So yes, not quite applicable to the bandit of interclub fame.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BraveDonut


    Do players really pull for a handicap for interclub comps? I would have thought that these types are normally looking for prizes.

    I was lucky enough to play in the metro final this year. According to some posters here that makes my club a shower of bandits. I am currently off 8.7 with 8.6 as the lowest I have ever been. The best I have ever scored in my club competitions is 40 points. Never won a medal or anything significant - I can only dream of the 44 points that regularly wins our weekly comps. If I hit the buffer, I feel that I have played well. If I get a 0.2 cut, I feel that I have played GREAT.

    As far as I know the lowest handicap on our team was 8 this year. The managers picked the team based on form and there was fierce competition for places.
    We lost the final badly to a much better team. I don't consider any of them bandits either. There were a few that were on there way down - I think one of them is currently off 5.
    I was absolutely hammered in my match by a guy who played steady golf - playing to a 9 standard - not a bandit. I just had a really bad day where the pressure got to me (still have knots in my stomach thinking about it now).

    I feel kinda sad and disheartened reading this thread because I had a brilliant experience playing through all of the rounds. I loved representing my club - It made me feel what being a member of a club is all about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Ben1977


    BraveDonut wrote: »
    Do players really pull for a handicap for interclub comps? I would have thought that these types are normally looking for prizes.

    I was lucky enough to play in the metro final this year. According to some posters here that makes my club a shower of bandits. I am currently off 8.7 with 8.6 as the lowest I have ever been. The best I have ever scored in my club competitions is 40 points. Never won a medal or anything significant - I can only dream of the 44 points that regularly wins our weekly comps. If I hit the buffer, I feel that I have played well. If I get a 0.2 cut, I feel that I have played GREAT.

    As far as I know the lowest handicap on our team was 8 this year. The managers picked the team based on form and there was fierce competition for places.
    We lost the final badly to a much better team. I don't consider any of them bandits either. There were a few that were on there way down - I think one of them is currently off 5.
    I was absolutely hammered in my match by a guy who played steady golf - playing to a 9 standard - not a bandit. I just had a really bad day where the pressure got to me (still have knots in my stomach thinking about it now).

    I feel kinda sad and disheartened reading this thread because I had a brilliant experience playing through all of the rounds. I loved representing my club - It made me feel what being a member of a club is all about.

    This for me is what interclub is all about. Practice, with a bit of look improve and get cut during the year and hopefully move on to the next level of team comps.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Lads, we'll leave this thread for Cups and Shields. Start a new thread on handicaps and qualification for these events if ye wish


  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Ben1977


    Hope the weather holds for the finals next week. Am hoping to get to Carton to watch an hour or 2. Should be good, am glad its on the O'Meara just think its visually better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 592 ✭✭✭gorfield


    Thanks heavens its on the o'meara, it would have been some trek on the monty for the Purcell lads (well 3 of the teams anyway...)

    Were playing the barton shield semi final on wednesday should be great.
    However with all of our panel in full time jobs, it might be time for these finals to be moved to Friday Saturday Sunday going forward, becoming a real problem for players and spectators to get time off work. Especially with the semi and the final on separate days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Ben1977


    gorfield wrote: »
    Thanks heavens its on the o'meara, it would have been some trek on the monty for the Purcell lads (well 3 of the teams anyway...)

    Were playing the barton shield semi final on wednesday should be great.
    However with all of our panel in full time jobs, it might be time for these finals to be moved to Friday Saturday Sunday going forward, becoming a real problem for players and spectators to get time off work. Especially with the semi and the final on separate days.

    Gorfield some of us wish we had to hold some holidays for the finals in September. But I understand were your coming from.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 592 ✭✭✭gorfield


    Ben1977 wrote: »
    Gorfield some of us wish we had to hold some holidays for the finals in September. But I understand were your coming from.

    Of course, but logistically its very difficult.
    Take us in Muskerry gc, our semi final is 11.00 wednesday, so our members come up wed to watch, if we win we play 11.00 thurs morning, thus meaning the members drive back to cork wed eve and back up thurs morn?? Or they all look for somewhere to stay and take on that large expense?


  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Ben1977


    gorfield wrote: »
    Of course, but logistically its very difficult.
    Take us in Muskerry gc, our semi final is 11.00 wednesday, so our members come up wed to watch, if we win we play 11.00 thurs morning, thus meaning the members drive back to cork wed eve and back up thurs morn?? Or they all look for somewhere to stay and take on that large expense?

    Of course its expense for followers to travel or stay over, its just the nature of the thing as its moved around the country. From castlerock to kinsale to Royal Tara etc.
    At least if it was run at the weekend there would be more members travelling and more atmosphere. Still the same expense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭GCW


    Ciaranra wrote: »
    Played very well this year to 10 looking to get Hc down but if its not happening i still qualify for next year and hope to be a better golfer

    Sounds like you coincidentally managed to just get the requisite number of qualifiers in this year to enable you to impress on the interclub scene next year also. That was a lucky coincidence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    Ciaranra wrote: »
    Dont agree with alot of this.
    So im a bandit because i was part of the prov towns winning team this year.
    I play off 10 only played 3 singles comp this year because all my focus was on practice.
    Playing the the away course 3 times in 2 weeks i had no time to concentrate on my handicap just how well i needed to play

    So what your saying is your focus was solely on playing well for inter-club teams off an inaccurate handicap? Complete bullsh*t. You shouldn't be allowed to play team golf.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭GCW


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    So what your saying is your focus was solely on playing well for inter-club teams off an inaccurate handicap? Complete bullsh*t. You shouldn't be allowed to play team golf.

    I would have thought anyone who was playing good golf would be chomping at the bit to get out there and prove themselves in Singles Competitions to get that handicap down. It sounds like he was too busy with practice and matches etc. Have to take that at face value I guess but personally it would drive me mad knowing I had scores and cuts in me but couldn't capitalise on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭Ciaranra


    GCW wrote: »
    Sounds like you coincidentally managed to just get the requisite number of qualifiers in this year to enable you to impress on the interclub scene next year also. That was a lucky coincidence.[/QUO
    gave all my golf to team and i have played 6 singles now and more to come.
    I could have played more singles but made a choice team practice or club comps.
    Maybe thats y we won from hard work its not easy getting to carlow meath wexford etc with work family.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭Ciaranra


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    So what your saying is your focus was solely on playing well for inter-club teams off an inaccurate handicap? Complete bullsh*t. You shouldn't be allowed to play team golf.

    I think your a little of the mark hear with your comment


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭GCW


    [QUOTE=Ciaranra;92124267gave all my golf to team and i have played 6 singles now and more to come.
    I could have played more singles but made a choice team practice or club comps.
    Maybe thats y we won from hard work its not easy getting to carlow meath wexford etc with work family.[/QUOTE]

    Well, if that's genuinely the case - then you deserve every credit and I offer you genuine congratulations on your success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭GCW


    Ciaranra wrote: »
    gave all my golf to team and i have played 6 singles now and more to come.
    I could have played more singles but made a choice team practice or club comps.
    Maybe thats y we won from hard work its not easy getting to carlow meath wexford etc with work family.

    Well, if that's genuinely the case - then you deserve every credit and I offer you genuine congratulations on your success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Sligored


    we are onto the 2nd day of the finals, not that anyone who didnt spend the time bickering about handicaps would notice.

    reports from 2 top interclub comps below (courtesy of gui).

    Barton Shield
    Ryan Gribben was the toast of Warrenpoint when he sank the winning putt on the 20th hole at the end of a dramatic AIG Barton Shield semi-final against Royal Dublin.

    Gribben held his nerve over a six-footer for par on the second extra hole after Royal Dublin failed to get up and down from the bunker. Relief was the overriding emotion for the Point having conspired against themselves on 18 with the match in their hands.

    “We always do it the hard way,” Gribben admitted. Needing just a half on the last hole, Gribben left his partner, Colm Campbell Jnr, 135 yards to the pin thanks to a sweet drive but Campbell found the front left bunker after Barry Anderson had caught the sand front right. When both splashed out to around 18-feet, a coin toss was needed to decide who was away – Anderson made the most of going first by rattling the cup. When Campbell slid his par putt past, they headed for 19.

    “My dad (Colm senior), the team captain, just said to us: ' You start again. You're still in it. Keep your heads up',” said Campbell Jnr. After the first extra hole was halved in par fives, both missed the green on the par-three second. When Ian O'Rourke failed with his par putt for The Royal Dublin, Gribben holed out to put Warrenpoint into the final.

    “That was the first putt we made and it was a nice time for it to come, but the boys did the business at the front end and they got us out of a hole,” said Campbell Jnr. Earlier William Hanna and Stephen Coulter had made a regulation par on 18 to win their game by two holes having withstood a major surge from Sean Ryan and Richard Knightly on the back nine.

    A birdie from Knightly on 13 brought Royal Dublin back into the match having been four down after 12. Par on 14 was good enough for another win and when they birdied 17, they were only one down playing the last. A pulled drive on 18 left the Leinster champions in all sorts of trouble and Warrenpoint seized the initiative to take a two-hole lead, which proved crucial in the end.
    Munster champions Muskerry were already safely through to the final at that stage, having beaten Athenry by 10 holes in their semi-final. The Cork men were four ahead at the turn and pulled away on the back nine to win quite comfortably in the end.

    Muskerry captain Greg O'Sullivan was delighted to get through to the final having missed out on a place in the Senior Cup final in 2011 when they were beaten by Portmarnock at Castlerock.

    “To win by that margin in an All-Ireland is awesome really. Look, be it 10 holes or one hole, once we're there we're happy,” said O'Sullivan. “It was fairly convincing but they're a good bunch of lads with good experience and it came to the fore today. So we're looking forward to the final now.”
    Athenry's preparations for the semi-final hit a last-minute hitch when Martin Hynes damaged his eye putting in a contact lens, with Peter Dolan drafted in to replace him in the first match against Niall Gorey and Dave O'Donovan.



    Thursday at 11.10am
    AIG Barton Shield Final
    Warrenpoint v Muskerry
    (Warrenpoint names first)
    William Hanna & Stephen Coulter v Niall Gorey & Dave O'Donovan; Colm Campbell & Ryan Gribben v Daniel Hallissey & John Waldron

    Times subject to change.


    AIG Cups & Shields
    Carton House Golf Club
    17th – 20th September 2014

    AIG BARTON SHIELD

    Semi-Finals
    Wednesday 17th September, 2014
    Warrenpoint bt Royal Dublin
    William Hanna & Stephen Coulter bt Richard Knightly & Sean Ryan 2 holes; Colm Campbell & Ryan Gribben lost to Barry Anderson & Ian O'Rourke 1 hole (20th)

    Muskerry bt Athenry 10 holes
    Niall Gorey & Dave O'Donovan bt Brian O'Reilly & Peter Dolan* 5 holes; Daniel Hallissey & John Waldron bt David Byrne & Joe Bernie 5 holes

    Junior Cup
    Castle will meet Castletroy in Thursday's (18 September) AIG Junior Cup final after teenager Ben Murray secured the crucial point in their semi-final victory against Warrenpoint.

    Murray, the youngest member of the team, closed out his match on 17 as the south Dublin club edge ever closer to that elusive green pennant. The experienced Harry Gleeson, who managed the club to Senior Cup success in 2012, won his game at the top of the order after Fergal Walsh had put the first point on the board with an emphatic 5&4 victory in game three.

    “Fergal was always in control of his match,” said Castle team manager Barry McConville. “Finishing early and putting that first point on the board was very important. It was a bit of a momentum swinger.”
    McConville's side has a potent mix of youth and experience – anchor man Gerry Moran is an uncle of Kevin who played at number four in the order and celebrates his 18th birthday tomorrow (Thursday, 18 September).

    “We know it's only half the job done,” said team manager McConville. “We've won four Leinster pennants in 10 years. We haven't got the green one yet and that's the target this year.”

    Castle's preparations began as far back as October and their investment in team golf could yet garner the ultimate reward in the AIG Junior Cup Final. Standing in their way are Munster champions, Castletroy, who beat Athenry 4-1 in the second semi-final on the O'Meara course at Carton House.

    Michael Murphy won the decisive point for the Limerick men with a 4&3 win against Michael Kennelly. Murphy has been a saviour for Castletroy throughout their Junior Cup campaign – he produced a spectacular birdie-eagle finish to seal the winning point in the anchor leg of their Munster semi-final victory against Muskerry. Murphy was called on again in the Munster final against West Waterford, where he secured Castletroy's victory on the 17th green.

    Colm Geary – a brother of highly regarded Limerick hurler Brian – put Castletroy's first point on the board against Athenry with a 3&2 win in game two after teenager Jonathan McDonnell, son of the team manager Johnny, was beaten in the opening game.

    Brendan Reidy won a second point for Castletroy in game four before Murphy followed suit in the anchor leg to give the Limerick club a shot at winning their first All-Ireland title since 1972.



    Thursday 18th September, 2014

    AIG Junior Cup Final
    10.20am
    Castle v Castletroy
    (Castle names first)
    Harry Gleeson v Jonathan McDonnell; Ben Murray v Colmn Geary; Fergal Walsh v Keith Bermingham; Kevin Moran v Brendan Reidy; Gerry Moran v Michael Murphy

    AIG JUNIOR CUP

    Semi-Finals
    Wednesday 17th September, 2014

    Castle 4 Warrenpoint 1
    (Castle names first)
    Harry Gleeson bt Paddy Magee 2/1; Ben Murray bt Jack Campbell 2/1; Fergal Walsh bt Shane McMahon 5/4; Kevin Moran halved with Michael McGurk; Gerry Moran halved with Stanley Weir

    Castletroy v Athenry
    (Castletroy names first)
    Jonathan McDonnell lost to Darragh Conlon 6/5; Colm Geary bt Brian O'Connor 3/2; Keith Bermingham halved with Louis O'Hara; Brendan Reidy bt Thomas Reaney 5/4; Michael Murphy bt Michael Kennelly 4/3

    Best of luck to all teams still involved , but i worry for enniscrone.

    Cant wait for the bruen on friday , come on the hill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,348 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Good luck in the final today gorfield. We're all rooting for ya.


  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz


    Rikand wrote: »
    Good luck in the final today gorfield. We're all rooting for ya.

    Oh no we're not!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭pinkdoubleeagle


    Backed Warrenpoint in the Shield and Tramore win the Senior Cup. Hoping to get up to see the end of the shield today


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  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Sligored


    spanish point up in all 5 , such a joke , an embarrassment :mad:

    Enniscrone Spanish Point
    Thursday 18th September 2014
    Fourballs
    1 John Rush & Jim Rickard 6 Up Thru 9 Kevin Hynes & Damian Sexton
    2 Kenny McGrath & Eugene O'Doherty 4 Up Thru 9 Evan Talty & Mervin Hehir
    3 John Griffin & Jim Bowe 2 Up Thru 9 Aiden Sexton & Stephen Guilfoyle
    4 Richie Cloonan & Jack Ruane 3 Up Thru 7 Fergal Hehir & Martin Glenny
    5 Pat Ruane & Padraig Tighe 1 Up Thru 7 Eric Murrihy & Niall Heeney


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