2014 Cups & Shields

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 7:30pm

Russman wrote: »

Put it this way, in something like, for example Metro, which has a lower limit of 9, chances are that if you shoot 9 over par in a match in the latter stages, you'll probably lose, and badly. Did your opponent have a good day or is he a bandit ? its very grey.

It isnt grey at all. The probability in that case is strongly that he is a bandit. If the probability is high of you being beaten when playing to your handicap, then you are playing against teams of bandits. The correct odds are that if you play to your handicap, then you should win. But as you note, this is in the latter stages, showing that it is the cheating teams that reach the latter stages. The final being likely a contest between the most crooked golfers a club could assemble.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 7:53pm

Dont agree with alot of this.
So im a bandit because i was part of the prov towns winning team this year.
I play off 10 only played 3 singles comp this year because all my focus was on practice.
Playing the the away course 3 times in 2 weeks i had no time to concentrate on my handicap just how well i needed to play

mafc · 08-09-2014 8:38pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

Dont agree with alot of this.
So im a bandit because i was part of the prov towns winning team this year.
I play off 10 only played 3 singles comp this year because all my focus was on practice.
Playing the the away course 3 times in 2 weeks i had no time to concentrate on my handicap just how well i needed to play

+1 on this.

Shocking some of the attitude here, not a bandit & never was........

PARlance · 08-09-2014 8:47pm

mafc wrote: »

+1 on this.

Shocking some of the attitude here, not a bandit & never was........

I certainly think that an awful lot of club teams are picked and made up of lads that can "comfortably" play to their HC with a few improving (current year) golfers thrown in.
Not all, but I've heard enough first & second hand stuff to believe it's fairly prevalent.

But yes, I do think it's harsh on honest golfers that give their all, who have probably played well in trails and gotten onto teams. And for the honest clubs that don't promote or accommodate banditry. It's harsh for them to be tarred with the same brush!

Are there lads on your team that are a little bit more "comfortable" than you mafc?

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 8:47pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

Dont agree with alot of this.
So im a bandit because i was part of the prov towns winning team this year.

Not necessarily. But more likely than most. And also likely that the win was achieved, even if not you, with the contribution of bandits.

Ciaranra wrote: »

I play off 10 only played 3 singles comp this year because all my focus was on practice.

This does increase the probability that your handicap does not reflect your true playing ability.

Ciaranra wrote: »

Playing the the away course 3 times in 2 weeks i had no time to concentrate on my handicap just how well i needed to play

Granted what you are doing is not outside the rules, so I wouldnt be critical of you. But it is the rules that are the problem, and I am critical of them. The rules permitting what you are doing is what devalues and sullies team golf.

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 8:49pm

mafc wrote: »

+1 on this.

Shocking some of the attitude here, not a bandit & never was........

A general observation, and not aimed at you personally. But no golfer is a bandit in his own mind.

thebigbandit · 08-09-2014 8:52pm

i am a bandit

Rikand · 08-09-2014 8:52pm

I should easily be off scratch, but I'm very comfortable off 5...

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 8:54pm

PARlance wrote: »

But yes, I do think it's harsh on honest golfers that give their all, who have probably played well in trails and gotten onto teams. And for the honest clubs that don't promote or accommodate banditry. It's harsh for them to be tarred with the same brush!

I do think it harsh also, and thats why it bugs me. And there are far more honest, players, teams, and clubs that do not field bandit teams, than ones that do. But the honest ones bomb out in the qualifiers or first rounds.
I am tarring all the semi-finalist with the same brush though. You simply cannot get their with legitimate handicaps. And I am speaking from direct knowledge of golfers I know and play with, and the reprehensible behaviour of my own club in this regard. The pennants over the bar embarrass me.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 8:57pm

I played 3 times during prov towns got cut .4
Played 3 times since looking to get cut but ended up getting two .1 in a medal and presidents

PARlance · 08-09-2014 9:02pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

I played 3 times during prov towns got cut .4
Played 3 times since looking to get cut but ended up getting two .1 in a medal and presidents

A long way off your goal so....

Ciaranra wrote: »

My handicap is 10.1 my goal this year 12.1

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 9:04pm

That was a piss take

Sir montygom · 08-09-2014 9:16pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

A general observation, and not aimed at you personally. But no golfer is a bandit in his own mind.

The bandits think that there is bigger bandits than themselves out there and think that their own hc is justified so as to be able to compete !!!! It's probably an inner fear of being a loser that they are trying to hide!!

FixdePitchmark · 08-09-2014 9:17pm

So Ciarana there plays off his last years handicap ?

No matter what he did this year is irrelevant.

If you don't mind me picking you out Ciarana. Just as an example.

Is fair to say you are comfortable off 10 ?

PARlance · 08-09-2014 9:22pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

That was a piss take

That's why I gave a little

Onto the next item....

Ciaranra wrote: »

Last 20 rounds on golf shot
par 3 scoring 3.3
Par 4 scoring 4.5
Par 5 scoring 5.1

You do know that those stats (from 2 months ago) would suggest that you are playing off a higher handicap than you should be

Assuming a standard layout
4 Par 3's @ 3.3 = 1.2 over
10 Par 4's @ 4.5 = 5 over
4 Par 5's @ 5.1 = 0.4 over

You're averaging 6.6 over there...playing off a HC off 10
There's only one word for that in my book.

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 9:25pm

PARlance wrote: »

That's why I gave a little

Onto the next item....

You do know that those stats (from 2 months ago) would suggest that you are playing off a higher handicap than you should be

Assuming a standard layout
4 Par 3's @ 3.3 = 1.2 over
10 Par 4's @ 4.5 = 5 over
4 Par 5's @ 5.1 = 0.4 over

You're averaging 6.6 over there...playing off a HC off 10
There's only one word for that in my book.

Two words really:

Four Handicapper.

SEORG · 08-09-2014 9:25pm

My lowest last yr was 13, I'm down to 8...I'm certainly not a bandit but I did play Purcell this year and was off 9.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 9:27pm

Played very well this year to 10 looking to get Hc down but if its not happening i still qualify for next year and hope to be a better golfer

FixdePitchmark · 08-09-2014 9:30pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

Played very well this year to 10 looking to get Hc down but if its not happening i still qualify for next year and hope to be a better golfer

Ciarana fair play you being 100 % honest.

Great insight.

Can I ask were you encouraged to not play in qualifying comps.

Just to show you how daft things are I'm off 6.8.
But my stats are 0.1 worse then you.

You had a 6 over in pga . Great score.
And you can go again next year.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 9:30pm

PARlance wrote: »

That's why I gave a little

Onto the next item....

You do know that those stats (from 2 months ago) would suggest that you are playing off a higher handicap than you should be

Assuming a standard layout
4 Par 3's @ 3.3 = 1.2 over
10 Par 4's @ 4.5 = 5 over
4 Par 5's @ 5.1 = 0.4 over

You're averaging 6.6 over there...playing off a HC off 10
There's only one word for that in my book.

Yea had a great year but practice games you dont get cut for

Russman · 08-09-2014 9:33pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I do think it harsh also, and thats why it bugs me. And there are far more honest, players, teams, and clubs that do not field bandit teams, than ones that do. But the honest ones bomb out in the qualifiers or first rounds.
I am tarring all the semi-finalist with the same brush though. You simply cannot get their with legitimate handicaps. And I am speaking from direct knowledge of golfers I know and play with, and the reprehensible behaviour of my own club in this regard. The pennants over the bar embarrass me.

Definitely agree this is the case, and I don't doubt that events like PP are almost always won by teams with plenty of handicap "rogues". Down through the years, there's often been remarks about certain winning teams, not all mind you, but every few years a team gets mentioned. I think there was a Barton winning team about 10/12 years ago that was regarded as being iffy and I can think of another from about 5 years prior to that one.

Interclub has always attracted the best players in their respective categories. Why do managers pick player X over player Y when they're both the same handicap (PP team building aside

) ? I know this is in theory against the system, but in reality you can have two players off the same handicap and one is clearly a better player than the other, doesn't necessarily make him a bandit. Perhaps player X can be depended upon to play to his handicap under pressure in a match, whereas player Y usually caves in, it doesn't make X a bandit IMHO.

We haven't won a worthwhile pennant in years, its a constant discussion whether other teams are all rogues or our guys are handicapped too tightly. To be honest I've mostly had the view that we're picking lads who can't play to their handicaps in a million years, or can't play to it away from home. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 9:33pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Ciarana fair play you being 100 % honest.

Great insight.

Can I ask were you encouraged to not play in qualifying comps.

Just to show you how daft things are I'm off 6.8.
But my stats are 0.1 worse then you.

You had a 6 over in pga . Great score.
And you can go next year.

No never asked that just no time to play singles
our practice eas very intense glad its over

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 9:35pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

Played very well this year to 10 looking to get Hc down but if its not happening i still qualify for next year and hope to be a better golfer

But you couldnt possibly have a handicap of 10 if those 20 rounds were submitted as competitive cards. And being not competitive rounds shows how far your handicap is out of whack with your true playing ability. Again, its within the rules. But shouldnt be. The team win purports to be a noteworthy success at playing golf. Really its a success at playing the system, but pretending it is a golfing success. An apposite example of the sham of team events being hereabouts discussed for those still granting such victories some kudos.

Russman · 08-09-2014 9:36pm

PARlance wrote: »

There's only one word phrase for that in my book.

A good man for the Barton

:D

mafc · 08-09-2014 9:36pm

Ciaranra wrote: »

Yea had a great year but practice games you dont get cut for

Bit of a witch hunt here, played on the same team as Ciaranra.... none of us bandits , just fcuking good match play players.

If you play to your handicap and can handle the pressure you will win most matches.

Ciaranra · 08-09-2014 9:37pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Two words really:

Four Handicapper.

Hopefully some day

PARlance · 08-09-2014 9:38pm

mafc wrote: »

Bit of a witch hunt here, played on the same team as Ciaranra.... none of us bandits , just fcuking good match play players.

If you play to your handicap and can handle the pressure you will win most matches.

And you'll win the provincial towns cup too?

mafc · 08-09-2014 9:41pm

PARlance wrote: »

And you'll win the provincial towns cup too?

We did :P

SaveOurLyric · 08-09-2014 9:43pm

mafc wrote: »

Bit of a witch hunt here, played on the same team as Ciaranra.... none of us bandits , just fcuking good match play players.

If you play to your handicap and can handle the pressure you will win most matches.

If you can play to your handicap and winning most matches, you are a bandit.

FixdePitchmark · 08-09-2014 9:46pm

mafc wrote: »

Bit of a witch hunt here, played on the same team as Ciaranra.... none of us bandits , just fcuking good match play players.

If you play to your handicap and can handle the pressure you will win most matches.

Don't know mafc.

I genuinely don't know how this works.

A lad comes on defending it. We ask a few questions . Ciarana accepts he is a six or less (yes?)

Then he says he is going again next year.

If ("I") was running things a lad would have to play 10 + qualifying comps in last .

so I'm breaking me balls off 7. You want me to be happy facing a player with a lag of 4 in his handicap ?

2014 Cups & Shields

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