Scrap the dole!

better call saul · 23-08-2014 12:23PM

caithimh wrote: »

I left school at 16 , started working full time in an unskilled job, but for great money . Thought i would have a job for life but was made redundant 2 years ago .

Now i get my dole and work on the side as it is the only way i can get close to the money i used to earn

QED

artful_codger · 23-08-2014 12:25PM

Mince Pie wrote: »

Getting real tired if this Shiite. Made redundant and struggling to get a job to the point it's looking like I may end up long term unemployed.
So op tell me where you're gonna magic these jobs for the people desperate for them so we don't have to scrounge of your hard earned tax dollars??? Please enlighten us?
I'm perched on the edge of my seat waiting while supping me bottle of buck fast in me free house and butlers servicing me helicopter to take me to Monte Carlo for the 5th time this year

The jobs would magically appear if those in employment weren't taxed to the hilt. Instead of spending my disposable income in the real economy, which creates real jobs, my money props up an immoral cradle to grave Welfare system which is churning out feral, dysfunctional scum who are making society a much worse place for ordinary hard working people.

numnumcake · 23-08-2014 12:32PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That is your problem and not anyone else though. Get yourself a job. Any job. It's not as difficult as many seem to think or want everyone else to believe. If you really want a job you could get one.

That's absolutely not true. Even the most menial of jobs are impossible to get now without having a bit of pull. Most people I know working have that job because a family member got them in, some of us aren't that lucky! And if you think by educating yourself is the answer to gaining employment then your wrong. Many of my friends have degrees and even masters and can't find work.

This nonsense that everyone on the dole is living the high life is crazy. Those people are in the minority! How would you feel after spending over 2 grand a year for four years in college to be told your not even employable to clean toilets and you can't even afford a plane ticket out of this place as all you get is 100 euro a week.

jigglypuffstuff · 23-08-2014 12:49PM

Its simple

EDUCATE YOURSELF!!

Work is attainable when you have skills

To get skills you need to educated

whats so hard to understand??

There is back to education allowance there..so nobobody has any excuse to not be either working or studying

tomwaterford · 23-08-2014 01:54PM

pone2012 wrote: »

Its simple

EDUCATE YOURSELF!!

Work is attainable when you have skills

To get skills you need to educated

whats so hard to understand??

There is back to education allowance there..so nobobody has any excuse to not be either working or studying

What of those that cant get work with no experience???
Your hardly one of those that want people who get educated to work for nothing....when will they start to earn??
Five and half years is too long to give on welfare....BTEA and jobbrigde....taking a degree at four years

better call saul · 23-08-2014 02:05PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

What of those that cant get work with no experience???
Your hardly one of those that want people who get educated to work for nothing....when will they start to earn??
Five and half years is too long to give on welfare....BTEA and jobbrigde....taking a degree at four years

Heaven forbid they have to get a part time job like the rest of us did during college, the sense of entitlement jeez

wp_rathead · 23-08-2014 02:06PM

caithimh wrote: »

I left school at 16 , started working full time in an unskilled job, but for great money . Thought i would have a job for life but was made redundant 2 years ago .

Now i get my dole and work on the side as it is the only way i can get close to the money i used to earn

:mad::mad:

Hope ta feck you declare that money you earn "on the side"

Dayum · 23-08-2014 02:22PM

Copyright/Patents, minimum wage law and tax all contribute to a lack of jobs.

If you want to get rid of the welfare state (and we should so we can grow the economy) we need to look at why the government cut off ordinary people from the opportunity of earning a living.

Iwasfrozen · 23-08-2014 02:26PM

The government should fund a study to determine how much it costs in Ireland to meet the very basic necessities of life i.e. food, water, 2nd hand clothes etc. and that should be the amount payed weekly on social welfare.

Sweet Rose · 23-08-2014 02:26PM

Dayum wrote: »

Copyright/Patents, minimum wage law and tax all contribute to a lack of jobs.

If you want to get rid of the welfare state (and we should so we can grow the economy) we need to look at why the government cut off ordinary people from the opportunity of earning a living.

Or why some people cut themselves off from ever wanting to work. Laziness, cushy life etc etc.

Dayum · 23-08-2014 02:29PM

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Or why some people cut themselves off from ever wanting to work. Laziness, cushy life etc etc.

Tell that to those "lazy" people who cannot find work because their lack of skills is not worth 350 euro a week to an employer. The minimum wage locks them out of the labour market.

Sweet Rose · 23-08-2014 02:32PM

Dayum wrote: »

Tell that to those "lazy" people who cannot find work because their lack of skills is not worth 350 euro a week to an employer. The minimum wage locks them out of the labour market.

I'm talking about people who don't want to work. Can work, won't work.

RayM · 23-08-2014 02:32PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The government should fund a study to determine how much it costs in Ireland to meet the very basic necessities of life i.e. food, water, 2nd hand clothes etc. and that should be the amount payed weekly on social welfare.

I can't see that having a very positive effect on unemployed people's mental health. It actually sounds like it would be quite degrading. Although maybe that's the whole point...

Dayum · 23-08-2014 02:42PM

Sweet Rose wrote: »

I'm talking about people who don't want to work. Can work, won't work.

I'd imagine there are very few people on the dole with Master degrees. We can assume that the majority there are uneducated, unskilled etc. If you want to get these people back to work, then you have to get rid of the minimum wage so that they can find a mentor in an industry where they'll gain valuable experience and become more employable. A qualified doctor or solicitor is hardly going to say "yeah, I could go to work....but fuuuck it".

Dowl88 · 23-08-2014 02:44PM

smellmepower wrote: »

Education is completely free now is it?

Yep if you do a springboard course which is free proper level 7 8 9 college courses and are only one year long. No excuse these days

Iwasfrozen · 23-08-2014 02:49PM

RayM wrote: »

I can't see that having a very positive effect on unemployed people's mental health.

So what?

It actually sounds like it would be quite degrading. Although maybe that's the whole point...

It's humbling. A person who doesn't contribute to society shouldn't benefit from it beyond the very basic resources needed to stay alive.

dixiefly · 23-08-2014 02:51PM

better call saul wrote: »

The time has come to scrap the dole, for those on it long term anyway! No more freebies at the expense of the educated people, hard working decent people. Not the cunce who's sky sports and multi room sub is paid for by the folk who get out of bed in the morning. I'm sick busting my balls every day while these wasters longer around drinking cans of Stella at lunchtime

We should petition the government prior to the budget, then scrap usc for us decent folk

forgive my ignorance but do people on the dole (long term) have sky sports & multi room etc?

Just wondering because I have been working full time for almost 30 years and cant justify it.

Dayum · 23-08-2014 02:53PM

A lot of people think schooling and education are one and the same - they're not. Two entirely different things. Education is about self-development. I have a 32 year old friend that sat on his ass since he left secondary. He wanted to prove to himself that he was capable of something more in life so he read, read and read. Within one year he found a job in London in asset management.

He got the job not because he had a piece of paper but because of the drive he had to self-educate about equity, derivatives, options and futures. That kind of character content is absolutely impressive from an employers perspective. After a few months they sent him to earn his BOFS. He passed his CFA last year.

Inspirational story.

There definitely is options out there if you've an ambitious person.

Tarzana · 23-08-2014 02:55PM

better call saul wrote: »

Get educated.

Lots of educated people are unemployed right now. But you already knew that, right?

Iwasfrozen · 23-08-2014 02:59PM

Dayum wrote: »

A lot of people think schooling and education are one and the same - they're not. Two entirely different things. Education is about self-development. I have a 32 year old friend that sat on his ass since he left secondary. He wanted to prove to himself that he was capable of something more in life so he read, read and read. Within one year he found a job in London in asset management.

He got the job not because he had a piece of paper but because of the drive he had to self-educate about equity, derivatives, options and futures. That kind of character content is absolutely impressive from an employers perspective. After a few months they sent him to earn his BOFS. He passed his CFA last year.

Inspirational story.

There definitely is options out there if you've an ambitious person.

A CFA after starting to study at 32???!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Kudos to your friend he's obviously a hard working intelligent guy. Though what's a BOFS?

statesaver · 23-08-2014 03:01PM

Zoo

better call saul · 23-08-2014 03:01PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Who said they wouldn't? But is there a part-time job out there for every college student?

Theres a whole different debate about wasters drinking away their grant but we will leave that for today.

Amirani · 23-08-2014 03:02PM

Sweet Rose wrote: »

Like I said, why aren't some people made to account for what they spend the dole money on. I'm not talking about families here. I'm talking about people who live at home with their parents for example.

From what I see its €188 for all adults but why aren't your personal circumstances taken into account.

You don't seem to have researched this very well.

SCOOP 64 · 23-08-2014 03:03PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Hate to break it to you lads but all i have is a leaving cert behind me

but ive had about 14 jobs in the last 4 years (I'm only 22)

All permanent if i wanted them including my current one.

so theres jobs here in ireland to be had, and i dont even mean the mcdonalds / lidls either that are also there for taking.

Your lucky your only 22 , if your over 40 not so easy.

RayM · 23-08-2014 03:04PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So what?

For a start, when you wreck someone's self-esteem, you kind of run the risk of making them less employable, duh.

Iwasfrozen wrote:

It's humbling. A person who doesn't contribute to society shouldn't benefit from it beyond the very basic resources needed to stay alive.

Until you find yourself unemployed. Then it'll be degrading.

Amirani · 23-08-2014 03:06PM

Yes, clearly nobody on the dole wants to work - http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/images/economic-crisis-unemployment-rates-ireland.jpg

Why did we have essentially full employment a couple of years ago? It'd be pretty reasonable to surmise that the majority of people on the dole are willing to work when there's jobs available.

Tarzana · 23-08-2014 03:08PM

krudler wrote: »

There's a ton of ways to educate yourself for free online, MIT, one of the most prestigious colleges in the world publish nearly all their course material online, for free:
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

More here: https://www.coursera.org/

Want to learn a language? Here ya go:
http://www.openculture.com/freelanguagelessons

here too:https://www.duolingo.com/

Computer programming take your fancy? there ya go:
http://code.org/

Here too:http://www.codecademy.com/

Maths giving you grief?
http://www.math.com/

How about science?
https://www.khanacademy.org/

History?
http://www.extension.harvard.edu/open-learning-initiative/world-war-history

Loads here too
http://alison.com/subjects/25/Diploma-Courses

hell even FAS do online education:
http://www.professionaldevelopment.ie/free-courses

That's all grand, but for most industries, you'll want to be putting down a certification on your CV, to show that you have been deemed competent in a particular area. Saying you self-learned with no demonstration of what you know will probably see your CV end up in the bin. That's where the money part comes in.

numnumcake · 23-08-2014 03:15PM

better call saul wrote: »

Theres a whole different debate about wasters drinking away their grant but we will leave that for today.

Not every student gets a grant.

Calibos · 23-08-2014 03:26PM

How many times does it need to be said that 'Full Employment' is attained at x percent which in Irelands case was about 200,000 people. Of that figure you can probably split it down the middle where 100,000 are simply unemployable due to physical or mental health issues or even personality issues. We all know people who through no fault of their own have physical ailments that either patently make them unemployable or make it such that their work attendance is so hit and miss due to their health issues that an employer would nearly need to hire another employee just to provide cover. We all know people with either mental health or personality issues that make them unemployable. It is only right that we as a society support these unfortunates.

The other 100,000 were the Dole lifers. The Wasters. We all know the type. The type the ire of these threads is mainly directed at but for which the other 250,000 non lifer/wasters also catch the flack. The thing is though, in the grand scheme of things 100,000 of these lifers isn't actually a lot. If these types of people made up the entire 400,000 unemployed at the height of unemployment then it would indeed have been worth the investment to put systems in place to weed out the chancers and scam artists etc. Unfortunately though it is a simple fact that for 100,000 waster/dole lifers the cost of the monitoring systems would be millions more than the money saved. Pragmatism has to win out.

Certainly we need to eradicate the welfare trap so as not to turn any of the 200,000 new unemployed into lifers and reform the welfare system, minimum wage, childcare costs etc but we do have time and don't have to make any rash decisions. 200,000 extra unemployed people raised with a culture of work don't suddenly all become dole lifers and wasters even in the space of 5 years unemployed. Its a familial generational process. We have time to fix this before you have a nightmare scenario of a new full employment figure with 400,000 lifers/wasters. The time to fix this isn't necessarily in the middle of a contracting economy but when the economy is growing strongly again and jobs are being created. You get those 200,000 'want to work but can't find work' back in work and then you sort out the welfare trap. You don't punish them while they are caught in the middle of the trap.

Iwasfrozen · 23-08-2014 03:27PM

RayM wrote: »

For a start, when you wreck someone's self-esteem, you kind of run the risk of making them less employable, duh.

Tell you what everyone has a brush in their house right? My advice to an unemployed person receiving only the bare necessities for life would be go around all of your neighbours houses and ask them if you can sweep their yard for a fiver.

Ta-da instant self worth and they can even save up enough money to earn a few drinks at the weekend.

Until you find yourself unemployed. Then it'll be degrading.

Everyone should be putting 20% of their earnings into a savings account. With taxes cut to pay for less dole that percentage can go up. Only the long term unemployed and the reckless would find themselves in a position like that.

Scrap the dole!

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