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drafting vs dumpline

  • 17-08-2014 06:02PM
    #1
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭


    At the IGA open day neither farm had dumplines in there parlours. And both farms calving a lot if cows quickly.
    I'm just wondering would I be as well do the same as them. Put in a good drafting system and draft out fresh cows and milk at end?
    I need a system any way. Its a balls holding all the cows at breeding and trying to separate cows on your own. .
    I don't think a dumpline is worth the price


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Comments

  • #2
    dar31
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭dar31


    Both are a great saving on time with the drafting being the most important
    We run all the antiobitic cows as a seperate batch in shed/field and milk last even though we have dump line as well
    At the iga the hylands milked all the antibiotic cows on the home farm separate to the main herd


  • #3
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    dar31 wrote: »
    Both are a great saving on time with the drafting being the most important
    We run all the antiobitic cows as a seperate batch in shed/field and milk last even though we have dump line as well
    At the iga the hylands milked all the antibiotic cows on the home farm separate to the main herd
    I think the dumpline is 3k can't remember off the top of my head. 3k would put in a good drafting system. Which would be a big time saver I think


  • #4
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    At the IGA open day neither farm had dumplines in there parlours. And both farms calving a lot if cows quickly.
    I'm just wondering would I be as well do the same as them. Put in a good drafting system and draft out fresh cows and milk at end?
    I need a system any way. Its a balls holding all the cows at breeding and trying to separate cows on your own. .
    I don't think a dumpline is worth the price

    It is for a few weeks in spring ,save a lot of time and lugging around tubs of milk from pit and trying to seperate cows and hold them back till last,
    Drafting is very handy also for simillar reasons but lies idle for a lot of year too.could u recycle the old lines jar and pump from old parlour and use them.thatcwould save a lot.
    Investing in both for a simple one man spring operation would be mobey well spent.both would be very beneficial at different times of the year and save time in parlour.dont get too hung up on what u see or hear at open days.take bits and pieces away and apply to your own place.usually those big operators can afford to have hired help full time in spring etc whereas your typical 100 cow man should be able to run it on his own and in your and mine case with help of father.parlour gadgets have a very valid place in farms like ur and mine


  • #5
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    It is for a few weeks in spring ,save a lot of time and lugging around tubs of milk from pit and trying to seperate cows and hold them back till last,
    Drafting is very handy also for simillar reasons but lies idle for a lot of year too.could u recycle the old lines jar and pump from old parlour and use them.thatcwould save a lot.
    Investing in both for a simple one man spring operation would be mobey well spent.both would be very beneficial at different times of the year and save time in parlour.dont get too hung up on what u see or hear at open days.take bits and pieces away and apply to your own place.usually those big operators can afford to have hired help full time in spring etc whereas your typical 100 cow man should be able to run it on his own and in your and mine case with help of father.parlour gadgets have a very valid place in farms like ur and mine

    I'm looking at the Kerr operation. 140 cow one man operation with a student in spring going to 160..22unit parlour. 9minutes per row.
    I I can reuse old parlour alright.
    I want to keep this as cheap as possible.
    The one thing I hate here is trying to seoerate cows out in both breeding seasons. Cows slip get agitated and nervous ones really hate it. Would same a lot of stress on them and save time ..
    I must get onto rep again and see what his prices were.
    Things were quickly escalating price wise with the parlour I might be just as well put on 2 extra units for 2 yrs and install drafting .
    I was thinking of milking cows at end and either keep seoerate herd or draft them and put them in second time and milk


  • #6
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I'm looking at the Kerr operation. 140 cow one man operation with a student in spring going to 160..22unit parlour. 9minutes per row.
    I I can reuse old parlour alright.
    I want to keep this as cheap as possible.
    The one thing I hate here is trying to seoerate cows out in both breeding seasons. Cows slip get agitated and nervous ones really hate it. Would same a lot of stress on them and save time ..
    I must get onto rep again and see what his prices were.
    Things were quickly escalating price wise with the parlour I might be just as well put on 2 extra units for 2 yrs and install drafting .
    I was thinking of milking cows at end and either keep seoerate herd or draft them and put them in second time and milk

    For 120/140 cows 14 units with more spec to save u trips in and out of pit,extra units and no drafting/dump line won't really help


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  • #7
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭visatorro


    My drafting system if fairly simple / silly, which ever way you want to look at it. When cows leave parlour they walk back out past collecting yard. It's easy to stop one at the top of the row. I walk out put wire up to gate of collecting yard, open gate then let her back in. Unfortunately I might have to draft her a couple of times if she's in early! I don't really have room for separate drafting pen outside parlour as yard is tight enough. Probably won't suit many lads but it's low cost and works. Also I wouldn't be doing as much ai on cows as most lads. So wouldn't be as hectic in spring


  • #8
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    For 120/140 cows 14 units with more spec to save u trips in and out of pit,extra units and no drafting/dump line won't really help

    The original idea was 12units with swing over dumpline and lowline wash but we still have the drafting which is only a minor cost I know.
    When I said to uncle about no swing over s he said it wouldn't work. What do I do with cluster if I want to drop the cluster was his comment.
    Eventually there will be 135/140 going trough parlour I hope.
    The tank will be bought first that's for sure and then something done with parlour.
    I'm wondering now would I be as well to get the uncle to put on 2 more units but then I have the problem of more froth building in the jar


  • #9
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,396 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    I've this very same decision also at the minute. I've been hearing good and bad on both systems, dumplines lying idle for most the year as they use more water/detergent than its worth to use it. Then auto drafting systems which are too close to the parlour exit, and the cows back up, meaning you have to leave the pit to drive them out. Auto drafting isn't cheap either, about 8k, so I guess 3k for the dumpline offers better value, if you have to choose one or the other. You can definitely put in a cheap enough manual drafting system however, what would would well would be one which is quite close to the exit of the pit, but only impedes the cows when you need to draft a cow, the rest of the time leave it open. However any system which requires the milker to be leaving the pit will probably mean ACRs are a necessity. At the minute this is what I'm considering, ACRs, 2 dump buckets, and as easy to use a manual drafting system as I can get.

    I assume adding in a dumpline afterwards if needs be would be a very simple job, just run any old milkline out and throw back up your old milk pump /jar.


  • #10
    trixi2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭trixi2011


    Have you any scope to set up cheap drafting at the front of the parlour. You can set up a really good drafting system with ropes and gates which wont break the bank. Know of a farm with a delaval parlour with dumpline which work with snap clips it failed twice in the one year and full tanks were lost each time . I always prefer running a separate group but might be a hassle with smaller numbers


  • #11
    Lofty0990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭Lofty0990


    Dumpline essential (mental stress alone) - even for spring only - during summer dumping any treated milk - selective high cell count -beats the hell out of slobbering around pulling pipes off claws to reroute to churns - as for drafting anyone one with compressed air one ram and one control box to gate in the right place just outside exit ,rolls royce job for a couple of hundred sqeuro.


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  • #12
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    trixi2011 wrote: »
    Have you any scope to set up cheap drafting at the front of the parlour. You can set up a really good drafting system with ropes and gates which wont break the bank. Know of a farm with a delaval parlour with dumpline which work with snap clips it failed twice in the one year and full tanks were lost each time . I always prefer running a separate group but might be a hassle with smaller numbers
    Our cows exit the parlour on the right into a ten ft wide race. I'd be leaving the pit a good bit if I set up a rope system..its an option alright


  • #13
    awaywithyou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    We're doing something a bit different for our new machine...:D going putting in a drafting gate before the cows come into the parlour.... To draft out cows whose milk is to be kept...


  • #14
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,796 ✭✭✭stanflt


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I'm looking at the Kerr operation. 140 cow one man operation with a student in spring going to 160..22unit parlour. 9minutes per row.
    I I can reuse old parlour alright.
    I want to keep this as cheap as possible.
    The one thing I hate here is trying to seoerate cows out in both breeding seasons. Cows slip get agitated and nervous ones really hate it. Would same a lot of stress on them and save time ..
    I must get onto rep again and see what his prices were.
    Things were quickly escalating price wise with the parlour I might be just as well put on 2 extra units for 2 yrs and install drafting .
    I was thinking of milking cows at end and either keep seoerate herd or draft them and put them in second time and milk


    Gg spend as much as you can on the parlour at day one to make your life easier

    I'd have no problem spending 8-10 k per unit
    A modern plant should last 30 years with proper up keep

    Compare it to your new tractor which cost you 50k and won't last more then 10years

    You will spend more time in the pit and it will make you money where as a tractor will only break your heart with diesel bills repair bills


  • #15
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,396 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Stan your probably right, although the money doesn't need to be huge, I'm looking at a 14unit with acrs, basic milk meters and a dumpline for 45k installed or 3200 a unit, then the grant back on it. Feeders are extra but I'll probably wait and see what way the new grants go.


  • #16
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    stanflt wrote: »
    Gg spend as much as you can on the parlour at day one to make your life easier

    I'd have no problem spending 8-10 k per unit
    A modern plant should last 30 years with proper up keep

    Compare it to your new tractor which cost you 50k and won't last more then 10years

    You will spend more time in the pit and it will make you money where as a tractor will only break your heart with diesel bills repair bills
    What would that 10k include? Shed and all?


  • #17
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Gg, to answer your question, I'd go drafting before dump though both would be nice.

    Keep colostrum and pen cows separate but if you can't mark clearly don't milk and draft. Milk at end when you have more time to deal with them. It's the pricking around with these that leads people to believe they need toys

    On the parlour question I'd suggest whatever you can afford. Basic 16 unit with manual drafting and batch feedrrs would shift 200 cows with one man. Forget the toys as not required unless you're a salesmanship wet dream. When your comfortably well off buy them


  • #18
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    This is what the parlour was coming in at

    Swing over
    1500l/m vacuum pump
    3kw electric motor
    Silicone milk and pulse tubes
    100mm milk line
    50mm wash line
    Low line wash with fold up betters
    Plate collet 800g/he
    Air injector for washing
    2x200 Ltd wash troughs
    26k +vat for 12units

    Milk recorders and act were
    13k + vat

    Feeders
    12 feeders
    I controller
    Can feed individualy
    8,300+ vat


  • #19
    quader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭quader


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    This is what the parlour was coming in at

    Swing over
    1500l/m vacuum pump
    3kw electric motor
    Silicone milk and pulse tubes
    100mm milk line
    50mm wash line
    Low line wash with fold up betters
    Plate collet 800g/he
    Air injector for washing
    2x200 Ltd wash troughs
    26k +vat for 12units

    Milk recorders and act were
    13k + vat

    Feeders
    12 feeders
    I controller
    Can feed individualy
    8,300+ vat

    What sort of feeders were you getting


  • #20
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    This is what the parlour was coming in at

    Swing over
    1500l/m vacuum pump
    3kw electric motor
    Silicone milk and pulse tubes
    100mm milk line
    50mm wash line
    Low line wash with fold up betters
    Plate collet 800g/he
    Air injector for washing
    2x200 Ltd wash troughs
    26k +vat for 12units

    Milk recorders and act were
    13k + vat

    Feeders
    12 feeders
    I controller
    Can feed individualy
    8,300+ vat

    Swing arm, unnecessary
    2*200 litre barrels for wash troughs
    You forgot meal bin and drafting


  • #21
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    At the IGA open day neither farm had dumplines in there parlours. And both farms calving a lot if cows quickly.
    I'm just wondering would I be as well do the same as them. Put in a good drafting system and draft out fresh cows and milk at end?
    I need a system any way. Its a balls holding all the cows at breeding and trying to separate cows on your own. .
    I don't think a dumpline is worth the price

    I'd do for drafting. I put in a dump line , made up of the previous milking machine and parked it after one year. Now I use ten gallon churns/cans , you can get a top for them to sideline the milk into them. When milking is finished I just pull the milk tube from the cluster and let the milk through the milking machine and pumped into barrels for transporting to the calf house. Fresh milk and antibiotic milk can be kept in separate churns if you don't want to feed it to heifer calves.


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  • #22
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    I'm with stan on this,gg u need to keep a tight efficient ship with help from ur dad as he moves on in years.14 units,swing overs,acrs,simple efficient drafting and recycle old lines from old parlour with that jar and pump or second hand one.no running in and out of parlour or lugging buckets up out of pit.do it once and do it right,u won't regret it.ur parlour and cows is where ull make ur money


  • #23
    trixi2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭trixi2011


    One thing I have noticed with a few new parlours around home is very little thought is put into cow flow. When putting in a new parlour I think it is one of the most important thing to take in to consecration. Cow flow is the one thing that can massively affect the length you spend in the milking parlour


  • #24
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Swing arm, unnecessary
    2*200 litre barrels for wash troughs
    You forgot meal bin and drafting

    I said to uncle about swing overs and he said it couldn't be done with out them
    There only small fish any way. 150/unit
    Meal bin is some thing I need alright. I might pick up a second hand one if I keep my eyes open


  • #25
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    I'm with stan on this,gg u need to keep a tight efficient ship with help from ur dad as he moves on in years.14 units,swing overs,acrs,simple efficient drafting and recycle old lines from old parlour with that jar and pump or second hand one.no running in and out of parlour or lugging buckets up out of pit.do it once and do it right,u won't regret it.ur parlour and cows is where ull make ur money
    Parlour built for 12 already
    Don't need acrs with that many units
    I could use that 13k better on drafting or something else. Need to keep this to minimum spend.
    Nothing wrong with a tight budget. Milked in a few parlours that were built in a low budget and found nothing wrong with them.
    The way modern parlours are now there built to add in extras. Not like parlours built 30yrs ago with bits added on and are awkward then. Its very easy to put on acrs and meters in 5/10 yrs when I have the big tax bill


  • #26
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,396 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    This is what the parlour was coming in at

    Swing over
    1500l/m vacuum pump
    3kw electric motor
    Silicone milk and pulse tubes
    100mm milk line
    50mm wash line
    Low line wash with fold up betters
    Plate collet 800g/he
    Air injector for washing
    2x200 Ltd wash troughs
    26k +vat for 12units

    Milk recorders and act were
    13k + vat

    Feeders
    12 feeders
    I controller
    Can feed individualy
    8,300+ vat

    GG I'd defo price that all up again and specifically ask the fullwood sales lad about the parlour for 1600/unit, would be 19k for 12units at that price. If you can get Joe to do any sort of cheap enough job to throw in the 2 extra units and a bigger milk line then do that for now instead!


  • #27
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    trixi2011 wrote: »
    One thing I have noticed with a few new parlours around home is very little thought is put into cow flow. When putting in a new parlour I think it is one of the most important thing to take in to consecration. Cow flow is the one thing that can massively affect the length you spend in the milking parlour

    Its alot more important than must add ons to parlours.for me its drafting all the way, you can use for lots of stuff , drafting for ai or milk withholding and you are milking mastitis cows last lower risk of cross infection, more time to mess around with them.in the spring when milking heifers I put in 12 or thirteen into row to squeeze the heifers and then I can recycle the unmilked ones


  • #28
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,123 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    trixi2011 wrote: »
    One thing I have noticed with a few new parlours around home is very little thought is put into cow flow. When putting in a new parlour I think it is one of the most important thing to take in to consecration. Cow flow is the one thing that can massively affect the length you spend in the milking parlour

    Really is baffling the length some lads go to when upgrading parlours to fit them into existing building the worst case i have seen was a 16 unit dairymaster with everything on it that could be got, that has 12 feet from the end of the pit to barrier gate with cows coming in at a 90 degree angle up onto a 2 foot ledge:rolleyes:.... ledges are probably my biggest pet hate should be banned


  • #29
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Parlour built for 12 already
    Don't need acrs with that many units
    I could use that 13k better on drafting or something else. Need to keep this to minimum spend.
    Nothing wrong with a tight budget. Milked in a few parlours that were built in a low budget and found nothing wrong with them.
    The way modern parlours are now there built to add in extras. Not like parlours built 30yrs ago with bits added on and are awkward then. Its very easy to put on acrs and meters in 5/10 yrs when I have the big tax bill

    I'd argue you do need acrs currently as with no drafting or dump line ur in and out of pit like a yo yo and lugging buckets of milk around your also in winter milk so the argument is there for the feeders .dont be afraid of technology it's there for your benefit to make things more efficient.14 units is perfectly adequate for 140/150 cows with a bit of spec.your young and building a parlour,do it once and do it right .adding on stuff after will in a lot of cases cost more as you will have to buy full wood,meters ,acrs etc to tie in with parlour.youve more scope to bargain at day 1.as stan said its a 30 year job and tax efficient and also the fact your milking year round with winter calvers you'll be getting a return every time u start the machine up.u won't get that with a tractor or machinery.
    It's good to see other guys set up ,but keep it relevant to yours and not guys milking a couple of hundered cows.


  • #30
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    I'd argue you do need acrs currently as with no drafting or dump line ur in and out of pit like a yo yo and lugging buckets of milk around your also in winter milk so the argument is there for the feeders .dont be afraid of technology it's there for your benefit to make things more efficient.14 units is perfectly adequate for 140/150 cows with a bit of spec.your young and building a parlour,do it once and do it right .adding on stuff after will in a lot of cases cost more as you will have to buy full wood,meters ,acrs etc to tie in with parlour.youve more scope to bargain at day 1.as stan said its a 30 year job and tax efficient and also the fact your milking year round with winter calvers you'll be getting a return every time u start the machine up.u won't get that with a tractor or machinery.
    It's good to see other guys set up ,but keep it relevant to yours and not guys milking a couple of hundered cows.
    I get what what your saying Mj and I fully aggre but you said yourself if you had other jobs to do around your place at the time you wouldn't have put as much into your parlour.
    Fullwood have a new parlour out now, haven't talked to uncle about it yet but I plan to. Might get quote of delaval and dairy master to beat him with.
    I might be able to get 14 units in I'll have to go measuring there is a bit of space at back where the troughs end but I don't think I will be extending the pit and taking out a tank for 2 extra units. If I was to do that I'd go to 18/20


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  • #31
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    I get what what your saying Mj and I fully aggre but you said yourself if you had other jobs to do around your place at the time you wouldn't have put as much into your parlour.
    Fullwood have a new parlour out now, haven't talked to uncle about it yet but I plan to. Might get quote of delaval and dairy master to beat him with.
    I might be able to get 14 units in I'll have to go measuring there is a bit of space at back where the troughs end but I don't think I will be extending the pit and taking out a tank for 2 extra units. If I was to do that I'd go to 18/20
    Yep had other jobs to do ,still have and still will next year a farm is constantly developing and needs constant revenue pumped in.dont regret for one minute any expense put into my parlour and when u do you won't either,just don't be afraid of going the extra yard to be more efficient and save I time.extra units with less spec to milk 150 cows don't make sense to me.14 units is loads for that no with a bit of spec,especially if staying I. Winter milk.stick with ur uncles full wood,it's a good a parlour as there is but bargain hard with him.my parlour is paid for for in 7 years and will be good to go for another 20 as well as been tax efficient.dobt be afraid of debt especially on your own business where u have a lot of control over what goes on.


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