drafting vs dumpline

Timmaay

Ok looking at drafting again. Heres a list of the ones I know about:

1)Full autodrafting with each cow having a permanent tag

Expensive, usually combined with heat detection/FTY system.

2) Autodrafting with tail transponders

Put a transponder on the tail when you spot the cow to draft in the pit. Remove it when you have her in the crush afterwards. Approx €8k for a system.

3) Manual drafting at end of the parlour, operated from the pit

Either a pneumatic ram or a rope and pully system which the operator opens from the pit. He needs to be careful that the cows are not too close together exiting or the cow to be drafted might escape. Cost €200-€2k

4) Basic gate opened by the milker

Milker leaves the pit to open and close the gate. Takes time but less risk of the cow slipping by, or having to draft off an extra cow. Closer to the parlour exit the better? Milker doesnt spend as long out of the pit.

5) Draft before the cow enters the parlour at all

awaywithyous suggestion. I've never seen an automated drafting before the pit. My main hesitation with this would be cows tend to be in more of a rush, well mine anyways as they want to enter the parlour for nuts.





Whatever system I go with in the future, I will definitely be having two different pens to draft the cows into. At the minute I only have one pen to draft into, awkward say if you have afew cows for AI and after to go back into the parlour, they'll need to be separated before the unmilked cows come back into the parlour.

Finally the biggest disadvantage of any of the autodrafting systems are if they are installed too close to the parlour exit, cows can backup. As well as this I've heard of cows who are in the holding pin turning around and forcing the drafting gate open, and totally clogging up the system, esp with the likes of a cow in heat.

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep had other jobs to do ,still have and still will next year a farm is constantly developing and needs constant revenue pumped in.dont regret for one minute any expense put into my parlour and when u do you won't either,just don't be afraid of going the extra yard to be more efficient and save I time.extra units with less spec to milk 150 cows don't make sense to me.14 units is loads for that no with a bit of spec,especially if staying I. Winter milk.stick with ur uncles full wood,it's a good a parlour as there is but bargain hard with him.my parlour is paid for for in 7 years and will be good to go for another 20 as well as been tax efficient.dobt be afraid of debt especially on your own business where u have a lot of control over what goes on.

Agreed that the fullwood probably is the best value when it comes to a high spec parlour. Actually one thing their salesman was pushing over some of the cheaper parlours were the use of all silicone hoses instead of rubber, which supposedly last much longer. Anyone any experience with using silicone, is it actually that much better? How many years can you get away with not changing it? The salesman wouldn't give me a straight answer on this ha!

frazzledhome

€1500

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

€1500

I forgot you had that. Looks the job after the galvanise.
Ill definitely do very similar.
Works well?

Greengrass1

....

Greengrass1

That's the parlour ready for new machine.
Sorry not the cleanist wasn't expecting visitors

billie holiday

i put in a home made dumpline.
i milk the colostrum/antibiotics into old fashioned withholding buckets.
i pour this milk into a seperate recieving jar from where it can be pumped up to calf feeding containers. after the milk is pumped i simply rince it with cold water and occasionally give her a good blast of caustic or some form of detergent.
it has a seperate 1 inch pipe so contamination of bulk tank impossible.
it has saved me lifting up to 100 litres a milking up 6 awkward steps.
i got local engineering company to hook up pump and pipe etc so it will last decades but it could be done with a pump from Lidl and an empty drum.
i love it. Now i need to think about drafting.... ah jaysus it never finishes

Greengrass1

The exit out of my parlour

Mulumpy

Timmaay wrote:

Agreed that the fullwood probably is the best value when it comes to a high spec parlour. Actually one thing their salesman was pushing over some of the cheaper parlours were the use of all silicone hoses instead of rubber, which supposedly last much longer. Anyone any experience with using silicone, is it actually that much better? How many years can you get away with not changing it? The salesman wouldn't give me a straight answer on this ha!

I put in silicone milk tubes this year. not mad about them they kink very easily. probably get about 3 to 4 years out of them other than that.

frazzledhome

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I forgot you had that. Looks the job after the galvanise.
Ill definitely do very similar.
Works well?

Yea, works really well. We made it up and used for a while to spot any problems. Egan happy sent to Galco for dipping. You'll notice in pic 3 a hook on wall holding gate. We found cows could open gate real easy. This is released with a foot pedal in the pit. Also pictured is the arm coming from the parlour. This works better than a counter weight for closing gate.

In all a successful job and never need to leave pit

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yea, works really well. We made it up and used for a while to spot any problems. Egan happy sent to Galco for dipping. You'll notice in pic 3 a hook on wall holding gate. We found cows could open gate real easy. This is released with a foot pedal in the pit. Also pictured is the arm coming from the parlour. This works better than a counter weight for closing gate.

In all a successful job and never need to leave pit

My dairy will be coming out where you have your holding pen there so I'll have to make a gate like yours then the cow being drafted and rest of cows will have to turn right. The cow being drafted will be held in a pen then is my idea in the race and rest of cows walk off down the firld

Greengrass1

At dg meeting today made a decission onIit no dumpline going Iin here. Two lads said they were taking them out amd it was just as easy to have two separate herds in spring

Timmaay

If I go with a dairymaster a dumpline would be 6k of an extra!! Gascoigne can reuse a decent bit from my old parlour tho.

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

If I go with a dairymaster a dumpline would be 6k of an extra!! Gascoigne can reuse a decent bit from my old parlour tho.

The lads today recond it was completely unnecessary ye can make a mistake easily with a cow not supposed to go intoo the tank

stop thelights

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The lads today recond it was completely unnecessary ye can make a mistake easily with a cow not supposed to go intoo the tank

I was going to post this when I just started reading this thread a few minutes ago!

At an open recently and talking to a lad that put in a new 20 unit gascoisge. With them you get four separate buckets with claws pieces and you just clip into the vacuum line. Very easy to do and no messing with pipes. Think there 500 per bucket.

Dump line is expensive, risk of transfer of milk into tank both accidentally or if a switch failed to divert milk. Also during summer when only used the odd time you'd imagine it would be hard to keep clean! Just said I'd throw that out there

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The lads today recond it was completely unnecessary ye can make a mistake easily with a cow not supposed to go intoo the tank

Crazy talk,if it's in why throw it out.fair enough it's only used for 6 to 10 weeks of year but you will appreciate it for that time.i have one and haven't used it since mid April but no way would I throw it out.it has its own line ,reception tank,vacuumed and claw pieces(recycled from old parlour).100% seperate from milk line going to tank and no messing with switches which are an accident waiting to happen.cost roughly 1500 to rig up and wire.some lads are gas they'd have shiny new tractors and new jeeps etc and cut and skimp in the place that makes them there money.

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Crazy talk,if it's in why throw it out.fair enough it's only used for 6 to 10 weeks of year but you will appreciate it for that time.i have one and haven't used it since mid April but no way would I throw it out.it has its own line ,reception tank,vacuumed and claw pieces(recycled from old parlour).100% seperate from milk line going to tank and no messing with switches which are an accident waiting to happen.cost roughly 1500 to rig up and wire.some lads are gas they'd have shiny new tractors and new jeeps etc and cut and skimp in the place that makes them there money.

Ive made the mistake myself a few times of letting cows off into the tank with my own herd and milking fir lads who had dumolines.
I think have a separate herd is a goid idea they dont join main herd until they are clear from antibiotics and pass the CMT test

Timmaay

stop thelights wrote: »

I was going to post this when I just started reading this thread a few minutes ago!

At an open recently and talking to a lad that put in a new 20 unit gascoisge. With them you get four separate buckets with claws pieces and you just clip into the vacuum line. Very easy to do and no messing with pipes. Think there 500 per bucket.

Dump line is expensive, risk of transfer of milk into tank both accidentally or if a switch failed to divert milk. Also during summer when only used the odd time you'd imagine it would be hard to keep clean! Just said I'd throw that out there

Fulwood quoted me 360e per dump bucket, that was theirs and dairymasters preferred method. Gascoigne said there would be no diff in price between 2 or 3 dump buckets/fittings and just a full separate dumpline, so I'll prb just go with that. For anyone with a full dumpline, I assume if you don't use it you don't need to clean it?

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Fulwood quoted me 360e per dump bucket, that was theirs and dairymasters preferred method. Gascoigne said there would be no diff in price between 2 or 3 dump buckets/fittings and just a full separate dumpline, so I'll prb just go with that. For anyone with a full dumpline, I assume if you don't use it you don't need to clean it?

Yep correct just wash it once per week to keep pump ticking over and lines clear,hot wash with de scaler usually

Viewtodiefor

Just one or two points on this lads

1) what is easiest way of transferring infection from cow to cow? Ans. milking machine!

2) does a dump line increase this risk? Ans . Yes because you have high cell cows and low cell cows milking at same time.

3) how can this risk be eliminated? Ans. cluster flush system

4) where is data to back all this up? More park trial of contamination in liners after coming off a high cell cow, there was still high risk after six uses of that cluster!!!

5) Lugging milk from pit in buckets is a pain! Yes buckets with their own claw piece reduce risk of cross contamination.

6) throwing out dump lines is rediculas talk. Why throw them out?? Dip clusters after use on high cell cow this helps.

7) consider drafting set up so cows can be drafted as they come in and exit a parlour, this means drafted cows milked last when milking again eliminating cross contamination

8) For above reason a bucket may b a safer option if the budget is tight. But dumplines if used correctly eliminate a lot of hardship, but they can be done without and drafting set up properly (if possible) may b a better option

stop thelights

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Just one or two points on this lads

1) what is easiest way of transferring infection from cow to cow? Ans. milking machine!

2) does a dump line increase this risk? Ans . Yes because you have high cell cows and low cell cows milking at same time.

3) how can this risk be eliminated? Ans. cluster flush system

4) where is data to back all this up? More park trial of contamination in liners after coming off a high cell cow, there was still high risk after six uses of that cluster!!!

5) Lugging milk from pit in buckets is a pain! Yes buckets with their own claw piece reduce risk of cross contamination.

6) throwing out dump lines is rediculas talk. Why throw them out?? Dip clusters after use on high cell cow this helps.

7) consider drafting set up so cows can be drafted as they come in and exit a parlour, this means drafted cows milked last when milking again eliminating cross contamination

8) For above reason a bucket may b a safer option if the budget is tight. But dumplines if used correctly eliminate a lot of hardship, but they can be done without and drafting set up properly (if possible) may b a better option

Basically it comes down to a system which is SIMPLE and which mistakes are minimised when you have relief in.

MJ s systems is ideal really but I would be in favour of the buckets with the separate claw pieces. Easiest and cheapest and simple solution. Letting cows around in circles is good in one way but its only adding time to the milking. Each lot each milking....could be 20 minutes a day!!

Greengrass1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Just one or two points on this lads

1) what is easiest way of transferring infection from cow to cow? Ans. milking machine!

2) does a dump line increase this risk? Ans . Yes because you have high cell cows and low cell cows milking at same time.

3) how can this risk be eliminated? Ans. cluster flush system

4) where is data to back all this up? More park trial of contamination in liners after coming off a high cell cow, there was still high risk after six uses of that cluster!!!

5) Lugging milk from pit in buckets is a pain! Yes buckets with their own claw piece reduce risk of cross contamination.

6) throwing out dump lines is rediculas talk. Why throw them out?? Dip clusters after use on high cell cow this helps.

7) consider drafting set up so cows can be drafted as they come in and exit a parlour, this means drafted cows milked last when milking again eliminating cross contamination

8) For above reason a bucket may b a safer option if the budget is tight. But dumplines if used correctly eliminate a lot of hardship, but they can be done without and drafting set up properly (if possible) may b a better option

What I am suggesting is at calving time milk your main herd -cows thar can go in to bulk tank
Then get in your fresh calvers/highscc/antibiotic cows milk these these can go threw yout machine into a barrel.
These cows stay in this group until antibiotics are out of them or there scc is cured. This group stays in shed or in seperate paddock which ever yr like. You have no transfere off bugs then.

In my opinion cluster flushing is only coverinh a problem. If a cow cant have a low scc there is no point in having her

Deepsouthwest

If a Gascoigne dumplines can be fitted for the cost of a few buckets then go for it. Have Gascoigne here and v happy with it. Vacuum on dumpline has to be turned on automatically, unlike the milk line which is automatic, therefore mistakes are unlikely as cluster on dumpline to be taken off manually, even in the event of forgetting then that milk goes to the dumpline as well iykwim. As for washing mine is washed or rinsed with the milkline 24/7, no switching back and forth, they both wash together

Timmaay

DSW did ya look into many other parlours before you settled with the Gascoigne? How old is yours? I've done a far bit of homework by now, milked in a new dairymaster and fullwood also, but neither come anywhere near the price of a Gascoigne so I'm close on doing a deal, just need to haggle the final few quid off it ha!

Viewtodiefor

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What I am suggesting is at calving time milk your main herd -cows thar can go in to bulk tank
Then get in your fresh calvers/highscc/antibiotic cows milk these these can go threw yout machine into a barrel.
These cows stay in this group until antibiotics are out of them or there scc is cured. This group stays in shed or in seperate paddock which ever yr like. You have no transfere off bugs then.

In my opinion cluster flushing is only coverinh a problem. If a cow cant have a low scc there is no point in having her

Your missing my point on the cluster flush gg. My point is its the only sure way of eliminating cross contamination.

I agree with your idea of holding them last as I said if you can accomodate drafting for when cows enter and leave the parlour (which can be done ) then it's makes this job a whole lot easier

Timmaay

With bang on 12 rows (72 cows) going through the parlour here now I hate having to recycle cows ha, gives me an extra row! I guess having say 7/8 rows with a 14 unit will take the pressure off in the future!

Viewtodiefor

Timmaay wrote: »

With bang on 12 rows (72 cows) going through the parlour here now I hate having to recycle cows ha, gives me an extra row! I guess having say 7/8 rows with a 14 unit will take the pressure off in the future!

Could be worse tim Seen guys milking 130 in a six unit for years

Greengrass1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Could be worse tim Seen guys milking 130 in a six unit for years

Really? Is it do able? Ideas

awaywithyou

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Could be worse tim Seen guys milking 130 in a six unit for years

i know of a crowd milking well over 200 cows in a 10 unit... thats some craic i'd say!

Deepsouthwest

Timmaay wrote: »

DSW did ya look into many other parlours before you settled with the Gascoigne? How old is yours? I've done a far bit of homework by now, milked in a new dairymaster and fullwood also, but neither come anywhere near the price of a Gascoigne so I'm close on doing a deal, just need to haggle the final few quid off it ha!

Parlour around 8 yrs old here, so not comparable with nowadays I guess. Priced both dairymaster and de Laval. Went with gascoigne cos they had the soundest dealer! All parlours will milk cows