The Sunday Game Thread

borntobike · 05-08-2014 12:00PM

McHugh is trying to be the Dunphy of GAA - "Platini is only a good player" made his name.
The Gooch is one of the all time greats and RTE need to get rid of people like McHugh trying to make a name for themselves by been sensenational.

keane2097 · 05-08-2014 01:29PM

By all means argue that Gooch isn't as good as people think, but the "two trick pony" thing - which he has since apologised for - deserved to be derided in the strongest terms and to call to do so being "unwilling to allow criticism" is a serious stretch.

Must be tough as a middle of the road intercounty player putting in hours and hours to be told that Gooch is only a two trick pony by a guy the National broadcaster designate an expert, essentially telling the rest of them they are no trick ponys.

freddiek · 05-08-2014 04:10PM

some people get upset when Cooper is not treated as reverentially as they feel he should be by the likes of Brolly and now McHugh.

they should remember that Cooper has lost FOUR All-Irelands finals with Kerry. he played in some very good teams packed with talent, maybe not all-time great sides but not far off it.

do you not think if he really is as good as some make him out to be, he couldn't have swung even one of those tight games they lost against Tyrone (x2) or the Dubs both times? i'll give him a pass for Armagh in 2002 as he was only out of minor and more experienced players should get the blame for blowing that one.

Gooch has only won the big one when the opposition was blown out of the water (Mayo) or Cork, who nobody expects to beat Kerry in Croke Park anyway.

it's just a fact that Gooch has never won Kerry a tight match in an All-Ireland final. so there remains an question mark over his achievements in my view.

aveytare · 05-08-2014 04:35PM

That's a pretty harsh criticism - he almost scored what in most circumstances would've been the insurance point in the 2011 final. He was one of Kerry's best players in the finals against Tyrone as well. Only Maurice Fitz basically won an all-ireland final by himself and the Mayo defence wouldn't have been as good as Tyrone's.

I'd say that Kerry team was an all-time great side. How many have there been that have been better? They were in nine finals from 2000-2011. They lost a few as well but you can't win them all. I know they won a few walkovers but Cork were the form team in 2009 and they beat Armagh in 2006 etc.

05-08-2014 05:44PM

freddiek wrote: »

some people get upset when Cooper is not treated as reverentially as they feel he should be by the likes of Brolly and now McHugh.

There is a gulf between "reverentially" and pointing out that he may amount to more than a "two trick pony".

Yellowblackbird · 05-08-2014 07:38PM

Does anyone know what the two tricks are ?

Yellowblackbird · 05-08-2014 07:41PM

aveytare wrote: »

They were in nine finals from 2000-2011.

They were knocked out of the championship a lot as well. Getting a bye back into the tournament under the bizarre "qualifier" system.
Two of those four all irelands were proper wins in the traditional sense.

aveytare · 05-08-2014 08:07PM

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

They were knocked out of the championship a lot as well. Getting a bye back into the tournament under the bizarre "qualifier" system.
Two of those four all irelands were proper wins in the traditional sense.

It works both ways though, Tyrone fan here and we won two all-irelands through the backdoor but maybe (as an example) we would've won Sam in 2010 had we not faced a Dublin team that'd improved a lot in the back-door after the Meath match. If there were no back door introduced I think Kerry would still have won a similar amount of all-Irelands in the noughties. Some teams aim to peak later in the championship as well.

Yellowblackbird · 05-08-2014 08:09PM

aveytare wrote: »

It works both ways though, Tyrone fan here and we won two all-irelands through the backdoor but maybe (as an example) we would've won Sam in 2010 had we not faced a Dublin team that'd improved a lot in the back-door after the Meath match. If there were no back door introduced I think Kerry would still have won a similar amount of all-Irelands in the noughties. Some teams aim to peak later in the championship as well.

That's a good point. I just think the nine finals is not the same as had it been done in the nineties, eighties etc is a different thing altogether.
That's not to say they weren't a great team anyway.

JohnBoy26 · 05-08-2014 08:34PM

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

They were knocked out of the championship a lot as well. Getting a bye back into the tournament under the bizarre "qualifier" system.
Two of those four all irelands were proper wins in the traditional sense.

The all Ireland championship and the provincial championships are two different tournaments so I fail to see how they were knocked out of the (all Ireland) "championship a lot"

I also fail to see how the qualifiers are "bizzare". It gives a team a second chance to prove their worth and if they are good enough to go all the way and win the all Ireland then they've won fair and square and are worthy champions.

Yes in the traditional sense they would of only Won 2 all Irelands since 2004 but to call their other wins not " proper" is a load of nonsense, by your logic Tyrone didn't win "properly" in 05+08 either or Cork in 2010, or even Galway in 2001 which is a load of nonsense tbh, All were worthy champions and the best team in the country in those respective years.

Anyway even in Munster Kerry weren't and aren't defeated "a lot". They have won 7 out of the last 11 Munster titles, that's hardly a lot of defeats now is it.

Yellowblackbird · 05-08-2014 09:10PM

JohnBoy26 it’s either a knock out competition or it’s not.
There are some cup/knock out tournaments where losers might play on for third place or something but the idea of being beaten and re-entering is I’m fairly sure unique to the GAA (and is bizzare and illogical) It was a money generator that demeaned the value of winning an All-Ireland.

I don’t subscribe to your cr<p about the championship being two tournaments.

harpsman · 05-08-2014 09:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pointing out that the analysis was stupid is hardly "unwillingness to allow any criticism". No one is saying McHugh should be censored or anything, just that he made a remark that was patently silly. Indeed, you yourself criticise McHugh in labelling it "extreme" - is your rejection of his comments really any more valid than others?

But you see the problem is that people are calling for McHugh to be censored- read this thread for one example. Also poor Kevin Mc Stay nearly needed the smelling salts. If youd heard Conor Deegan and David Brady on Newstalk youd think that hed come out as a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

TV pundits are always making silly, nonsensical statements like this one-my reaction is Yawn, Who cares?

Id still rather listen to McHughs opinions than most of the other fellas-hes proven himself not just as a player but as a manager too, and hes likely to bring a bit more insight to a game than most-even if that was a particularly silly remark on sunday.

Anyway Ive nothing more to say on the issue.

JohnBoy26 · 05-08-2014 09:56PM

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

JohnBoy26 it’s either a knock out competition or it’s not.
There are some cup/knock out tournaments where losers might play on for third place or something but the idea of being beaten and re-entering is I’m fairly sure unique to the GAA (and is bizzare and illogical) It was a money generator that demeaned the value of winning an All-Ireland.

I don’t subscribe to your cr<p about the championship being two tournaments.

The only one spouting "cr<p" here is you. If you don't think that they are 2 different competitions then I suggest you look it up. Nothing really "illogical" or "bizzare" about the qualifiers either. It just gives more teams a chance in the all Ireland series is all, rather than just the winners of the provincial championships as was the case pre 2001.

The all Ireland series is a knockout competition, when your defeated your gone, there is no such a thing as " re-entering" in this competition. the qualifiers don't demean the "value" or make winning an all Ireland less important or less prestigious.

They may have lessened the importance of winning a provincial championship somewhat but not an All Ireland.

harpsman · 06-08-2014 11:45AM

Ok I know I said I wasnt going to comment any more on "ponygate" just was listenin to 2nd Captains last night-were they reading my posts?:D

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains.

And Breheny in Indo

No need to berate McHugh for clumsy comment
Lighten up, folks. Martin McHugh, a solid citizen in a long career across all aspects of GAA life, is being portrayed as a charlatan for his description of Colm Cooper as 'a two-trick pony' while talking up the merits of James O'Donoghue on 'The Sunday Game'.
By McHugh's own admission, it was a clumsy choice of words, but, hey, there's no need to put him in stocks and pelt him with rotten eggs.
I doubt very much if 'Gooch' is overly concerned, so why such overwhelming outrage on his behalf?
It's no big deal, really.
In any event, the sceptic in me becomes even more suspicious when comments are made on TV, in particular, which are guaranteed to further energise the excitable world of social media.
After all, there's definitely no such thing as bad publicity in the TV game.
Even one-trick ponies know that.
Irish Independent

keane2097 · 06-08-2014 11:48AM

Qualifiers obviously make it harder to win the All Ireland as in the past any big team that got caught at Provincial time would be gone for good, with the Qualifiers they can come back and ensure the last 8 is as competitive as possible.

Kerry would probably have won another two All Irelands in 05 and 08 but for the back door.

DoctaDee · 06-08-2014 12:13PM

keane2097 wrote: »

......Kerry would probably have won another two All Irelands in 05 and 08 but for the back door.

Eugh 2008 I had consigned that year to the recycle bin, that 1/4 final in the lashing rain *shudder* .. what was it George Hook said about giving a sucker an even break ?

wow sierra · 06-08-2014 09:54PM

I don't mind pundits making controversial comments by accident - what I don't like is the practice of doing it deliberately to garner publicity. And the personal nature of some of the criticism is not acceptable. The Wexford hurlers were really hurt by the comments when they were beaten in the Club championship and the whole Sean Kavanagh thing was a new low. These are amateur players with their parents and friends watching - you can criticise the play without being personal about the player.

Someone quoted the Independent comment that the Gooch wouldn't care - are ye sure about that?? Gooch is in the worst possible place now for a Sportstar - he's getting older and nearing the end of his career and he is longterm injured. A horrible place to be. And then he has to look at the contender lighting up the field and being told he's not as good and a "two trick pony".

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

ProudDUB · 06-08-2014 10:25PM

wow sierra wrote: »

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

No. Just one man is making it be all about themselves. Martin McHugh. It's not like Colm Cooper is the victim of a mass media conspiracy to denigrate him. The media in general are just reporting on all the ensuing kerfuffle. That is their job. And to be fair to the media at large, pretty much every single pundit/journalist/commentator I have read/heard/seen since, has said that McHugh is full of you know what.

sam34 · 07-08-2014 08:21AM

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Does anyone know what the two tricks are ?

Scoring and making scores, I'd say :pac:

RV · 07-08-2014 04:27PM

sam34 wrote: »

Scoring and making scores, I'd say :pac:

Two tricks - goals and points?

keeponhurling · 07-08-2014 10:11PM

RV wrote: »

Two tricks - goals and points?

Munsters and All-irelands

ciarriaithuaidh · 08-08-2014 12:01AM

wow sierra wrote: »

I don't mind pundits making controversial comments by accident - what I don't like is the practice of doing it deliberately to garner publicity. And the personal nature of some of the criticism is not acceptable. The Wexford hurlers were really hurt by the comments when they were beaten in the Club championship and the whole Sean Kavanagh thing was a new low. These are amateur players with their parents and friends watching - you can criticise the play without being personal about the player.

Someone quoted the Independent comment that the Gooch wouldn't care - are ye sure about that?? Gooch is in the worst possible place now for a Sportstar - he's getting older and nearing the end of his career and he is longterm injured. A horrible place to be. And then he has to look at the contender lighting up the field and being told he's not as good and a "two trick pony".

James O'Donoghue is a joy to watch - the story of the weekend should be about him, and about the wonderful Armagh championship run after a disastrous league. But no - the media want the story to be all about themselves.

Great post WS and spot on.

Gooch sitting out the year and playing waterboy is no doubt depressing enough, but to have to listen to this ****e in the media then?
Anyway, it all pales in comparison to today as his mother Maureen sadly passed away. RIP.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 10-08-2014 10:13PM

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is half a foot higher than any other ground.

dastardly00 · 10-08-2014 10:26PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is a a foot higher than any other ground.

He said half a foot.

But yeah it would be interesting to know if that is true.

Realt Dearg Sec · 10-08-2014 10:40PM

Is denying Kilkenny, and in particular Richie Hogan, a MOTM award a part of Sunday Game policy this year?

Say Your Number · 10-08-2014 11:01PM

Brolly's off again

ProudDUB · 10-08-2014 11:02PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

He said half a foot.

But yeah it would be interesting to know if that is true.

It's not the first time that he has said that. He has mentioned it a few times in his newspaper column too. I vaguely remember some one from one of the provincial grounds (Ennis maybe) being asked if they had intentionally lowered their goal posts to give their goalkeeper an advantage. Or maybe it was someone from Croker who was asked if they had intentionally raised theirs. (I forget which, sorry.) Either way, denials were forthcoming that crossbars had been raised/lowered & they maintained that their crossbars were the regulation height, whatever that is.

Who wants to volunteer to sneak into Croker to measure it?

Mountainlad · 10-08-2014 11:22PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Is denying Kilkenny, and in particular Richie Hogan, a MOTM award a part of Sunday Game policy this year?

I think on this occasion the got it correct. Hogan was a bit quieter second half. Class act though on tthe ball and shoe in for hurler of the year. He made Colin Fennelly look brilliant today with some of the balls he played him, incredible vision and then the skill to pick him out.

What impressed me most was his ability to do this under intense physical pressure, it's like he just knows when to play the ball into certain positions.

rebel girl 15 · 10-08-2014 11:25PM

Fennelly got the Sky MOTM and Hickey the RTE one - bit silly having two?

Amprodude · 11-08-2014 04:30AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

According to Donal Óg Cusack tonight the crossbar in Croke Park is half a foot higher than any other ground.

He said that also in the 2004 final words hurling documentary when Joe Deane was trying to punch ball over bar and it hit crossbar.

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