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Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

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    #572
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You keep up with the attempts to silence and censor Fred. Well done.

    One of the chief 'celebrants' yesterday is obviously wracked by the same 'paranoia' in private, but in public life can ignore it. He's not alone it seems. :rolleyes:

    No need to silence or censor, because you are simply coming out with empty rhetoric.

    Do you have any evidence of the Presidents personal feelings, because the quote you posted could apply to dozens of scenarios. The famine service you attended, for example.


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    #573
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No doubt about that.
    The British (politicians and generals) disregard of human life in insisting on sending men over the top at the Somme when they knew and were told of it's pointlessness is a shameful thing.
    Their sense of superiority (how could the Hun outwit us and be better dug in and prepared?) led them into a huge human disaster.

    The summer offensive on the Somme was supposed to be part of a general offensive by the allied powers against the central powers. The demand for a large attack in 1916 came from the French and initially France would provide more divisions than the British - and presumably would determine the strategy of the offensive. It would have been better if they had - their hard won experience might have resulted in more gains for fewer casualties. Verdun obliged the French to move divisions away from the coming Somme offensive, which gave the British effective control of the tactics. The French observed the British casualties and small gains and considered that the British would learn some hard lessons on the Somme.
    It's worth noting that two of the largest assaults of the war - with some of the heaviest casualties - came from the Germans. The initial thrust into Belgium and France in 1914 -which failed and created the western front. And Ludendorff's series of huge assaults from March 1918 onward - these also failed and led to the ending of the war.
    Generals making mistakes and causing huge casualties for their own armies was not confined to the British.


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    #574
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,002 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Irelandcool wrote: »
    Also I think there was an Irish SAS officer who died in the falkland's

    yes, a war which happened so a failed loony who had no chance of being re-elected would get re-elected, before selling off everything to the lowist bidder, everything must go

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #575
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes, a war which happened so a failed loony who had no chance of being re-elected would get re-elected, before selling off everything to the lowist bidder, everything must go

    You missed the small matter of a military Junta invading the islands in the first place.


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    #576
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,002 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    You missed the small matter of a military Junta invading the islands in the first place.
    which the military junta were right to do, leaving it to them would have saved the british tax payers billions and removed a loony extremist from the highist office in the british state, possibly meaning people not having to pay over inflated prices to a few greedy private companies

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #577
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    which the military junta were right to do, leaving it to them would have saved the british tax payers billions and removed a loony extremist from the highist office in the british state, possibly meaning people not having to pay over inflated prices to a few greedy private companies

    But leaving the people of the Falklands living under a brutal military dictatorship.


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    #578
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,002 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    But leaving the people of the Falklands living under a brutal military dictatorship.
    if it meant thatcher not being re-elected, so be it, the people living on those islands are and will never be british, descendants of british people maybe but thats it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #579
    Broxi_Bear_Eire
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Broxi_Bear_Eire


    end of the road wrote: »
    if it meant thatcher not being re-elected, so be it, the people living on those islands are and will never be british, descendants of british people maybe but thats it.

    As much as I hated Thatcher and disagreed with the Falklands war what gives you the right to condemn these people to a military junta ruling them. They don't want to be part of Argentina surely they have right to determine who governs them as other peoples do


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    #580
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    That is a matter of interpretation I suppose.

    What beggars belief about all of this is that there are still people on this island that think the GFA cured all our ills. It simply hasn't and there are sizable numbers who still believe we have a way to go, on both sides.
    It will only continue to fester as the two governments play happy families reunited.
    Ignore it if you wish but don't act suprised everytime this rears it's head...it will continue to happen.

    Only a small minority on both sides would change the current status quo (imperfect as it is) and go back to how it was. Most of the problems on the extremes on both sides would be solved by socio economic, long term solutions, extra jobs, opportunities and money. We'll always have bigots and slaves to history on both sides, but that's mostly symtoms of their upbringing than anything else.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #581
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    K-9 wrote: »
    Only a small minority on both sides would change the current status quo (imperfect as it is) and go back to how it was. Most of the problems on the extremes on both sides would be solved by socio economic, long term solutions, extra jobs, opportunities and money. We'll always have bigots and slaves to history on both sides, but that's mostly symtoms of their upbringing than anything else.


    this is a big issue...where would the best future be served espially for the extremes....In a united Ireland or continueing plodding along under britin where it doesn't want to invest too much money for fear of event of united Ireland coming to pass....there by effectively letting the place run down??


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    #582
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Jaysus, The North is heavily subsidised and reliant on the British Exchequer, something like 2/3'rds of jobs are public service or Government funded to some extent. If that money dried up and N.I. Was forced to become more self reliant it would raise questions, but the answers aren' coming from a United Ireland IMO.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #583
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,002 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »
    As much as I hated Thatcher and disagreed with the Falklands war what gives you the right to condemn these people to a military junta ruling them. They don't want to be part of Argentina surely they have right to determine who governs them as other peoples do
    eventually when britains military is cut again and they have had enough of racing half way around the world into conflicts the people there won't get a choice

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #584
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    eventually when britains military is cut again and they have had enough of racing half way around the world into conflicts the people there won't get a choice

    I doubt the Argentinean military will see any investment in the near future.


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    #585
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,002 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I doubt the Argentinean military will see any investment in the near future.
    the argentines had a good military back in 82 but got scared, otherwise they would have defeated the thrown together bits of ships and planes the british had had they kept fighting

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #586
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    the argentines had a good military back in 82 but got scared, otherwise they would have defeated the thrown together bits of ships and planes the british had had they kept fighting

    Maybe, but their military is pretty much the same now as it was in 82.


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    #587
    Mosby61
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Mosby61


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    The PIRA lost a lot of support in the wake of that atrocity and rightly so.

    Loyalists murderers, on the other hand, are celebrated for their massacres of innocent people - 'here lies a soldier' is written on the UVF headstone of a Shankill Butcher.
    PIRA supporters put up a disgraceful plaque just recently to commemorate the Shankill bomber who murdered so many people. You either didn't know or tried to pull the wool over less educated eyes on this.

    And a parade is being organised now to remember PIRA death squads too. So it isn't black and white at all.


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    #588
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Mosby61 wrote: »

    And a parade is being organised now to remember PIRA death squads too. So it isn't black and white at all.

    Which death squads are these now?


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    #589
    Mosby61
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Mosby61


    wazky wrote: »
    Which death squads are these now?
    PIRA squads which murdered innocent people with bombs.


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    #590
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    PIRA squads which murdered innocent people with bombs.

    Oh right those ones.


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    #591
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Mosby61 wrote: »
    PIRA supporters put up a disgraceful plaque just recently to commemorate the Shankill bomber who murdered so many people. You either didn't know or tried to pull the wool over less educated eyes on this.

    Again, the PIRA lost a lot of support in the wake of such atrocities*. Loyalists on the other hand were celebrated in their communities for shooting innocent Catholics in bars, bookies or at work.

    In the wake of that bomb:

    The UDA shot a Catholic delivery driver in Belfast after luring him to a bogus call just a few hours after the bombing. He died on 25 October.

    On 26 October, the UDA shot dead another two Catholic civilians and wounded five in an indiscriminate attack at a Council Depot on Kennedy Way, Belfast.

    On 30 October, UDA members entered a pub in Greysteel frequented by Catholics and again opened-fire indiscriminately. Eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded.

    Adair also vowed to launch simultaneous attacks on Catholics attending mass in Belfast. A UDA member said that a carload of gunmen were sent to attack Holy Family Catholic Church on the Limestone Road, but called off the attack due to the high security.

    The UVF shot dead a Catholic man in Newtownabbey and two Catholic brothers in Bleary.

    See the difference there? The guys in the fish shop were trying to kill paramilitaries of Johnny Adair's ilk while the people they were trying to kill went out and murdered innocent unarmed people for being Catholics. Brave men eh?
    There is a congenial, indeed government-backed myth, in both Scotland and in Ireland, that "one side is bad as another": that Sinn Fein-IRA are pretty much the same as the UDA/UVF. This is simply untrue. There is no republican equivalent to the Romper Rooms of the UDA, wherein men were routinely beaten to a pulp by loyalist thugs, and from which both the term and the practice became celebrated.

    This culture did not emerge simply as a response to IRA violence. It was there already. It was feckless, violent, drunken, lost, lumpen proletarians for whom a perverted tribal identity conjoined with a Godlessly Calvinist sense of superiority, even as they stewed in their ghettoes of suffocating illiteracy and economic failure.

    Kevin Myers.

    *That bomb was meant for loyalist killers who were thought to be meeting upstairs. The plan was to evacuate the people in the shop and detonate the bomb. Seán Kelly, the surviving IRA member, was badly wounded in the blast ... in an interview shortly after his release, he said he had never intended to kill innocent people and regrets what happened.


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    #592
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    There is a congenial, indeed government-backed myth, in both Scotland and in Ireland, that "one side is bad as another": that Sinn Fein-IRA are pretty much the same as the UDA/UVF. This is simply untrue. There is no republican equivalent to the Romper Rooms of the UDA, wherein men were routinely beaten to a pulp by loyalist thugs, and from which both the term and the practice became celebrated.

    This culture did not emerge simply as a response to IRA violence. It was there already. It was feckless, violent, drunken, lost, lumpen proletarians for whom a perverted tribal identity conjoined with a Godlessly Calvinist sense of superiority, even as they stewed in their ghettoes of suffocating illiteracy and economic failure.

    Kevin Myers.
    And Kevin Myers ain't no provo apologist.


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    #593
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Maybe they're sore the germans didn't win?

    Seriously though, there are enough 'prime candidate' posters on here who may very well be out threre protesting (presumably because so many Irish men fought with the allies). If the poppy threads on boards.ie are anything to go by there is an annual outporing of pure hatred at any and all WWI commemorations in Ireland, so I guess these dim wit hecklers may represent their sentiments? questionmark.

    I love the faux outrage over it. Republicans like to put on this veil of respectability. It's like putting lipstick on a pig. The countless threads slaughtering the OO, unionists in NI, the British Royals, the BA, coupled with threads deifying convicts like Bobby Sands and those who murdered in the name of Irish republicanism, show that their is more than a little support for this kind of behavior. I can only begin to imagine the level of vulgarity that will be on display in 2016.


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    #594
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    The expression "Faux outrage" is really in now - I'm amazed at the amount of mind-readers out there.
    Where are "The countless threads slaughtering the OO, unionists in NI, the British Royals, the BA"? :confused:
    If a person can't see how elements within the British army deserve criticism, and how a LOT of elements within the Orange Order deserve criticism... speaks volumes.


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    #595
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Magaggie wrote: »
    The expression "Faux outrage" is really in now - I'm amazed at the amount of mind-readers out there.
    Where are "The countless threads slaughtering the OO, unionists in NI, the British Royals, the BA"? :confused:

    Search the site. You'll find plenty of examples in this forum and the Politics fora. The threads on Prince George of Cambridge, a new born baby, are particularly tasteless.


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    #596
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Berserker wrote: »
    I love the faux outrage over it. Republicans like to put on this veil of respectability. It's like putting lipstick on a pig. The countless threads slaughtering the OO, unionists in NI, the British Royals, the BA, coupled with threads deifying convicts like Bobby Sands and those who murdered in the name of Irish republicanism, show that their is more than a little support for this kind of behavior. I can only begin to imagine the level of vulgarity that will be on display in 2016.

    Jaysus, you're just the ray of sunshine this thread needs.


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    #597
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Nodin wrote: »
    Jaysus, you're just the ray of sunshine this thread needs.

    Why? This incident shows Republicans for what they are, as opposed to the angelic, victim persona that is usually portrayed.


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    #598
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Berserker wrote: »
    Why? This incident shows Republicans for what they are, as opposed to the angelic, victim persona that is usually portrayed.
    Saying this incident = how all republicans are... again, speaks volumes.

    These "enlightened" Irish folk who act as if the conflict in Northern Ireland was formed in a vacuum and it was all down the republicans... what would we do without them and their superiority?


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    #599
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Isn't it fantastic how these threads attract so many brand new users to boards?


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    #600
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Berserker wrote: »
    Why? This incident shows Republicans for what they are, as opposed to the angelic, victim persona that is usually portrayed.


    Fairly sure there's more Republicans than the 20 or so who showed up at the cemetery. Even more sure they generally don't support RSF.


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    #601
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Berserker wrote: »
    This incident shows Republicans for what they are, as opposed to the angelic, victim persona that is usually portrayed.

    They're about as representative of your average Irish Republican/Nationalist as the EDL is of the average Englishman.

    Your axe will soon be reduced to its handle if you keep grinding it.


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