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Should there be no speed limits on parts of the motorways?

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    I don't see why saving people a small bit of time is preferable to safer motorways..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    If the right hand lane was free you can essentially drive as fast as you want.

    What's to stop you?

    However Irish motorists are self policing in that all lanes including the right lane are clogged up with eejits trundling along at the same low speed. Creating basically a wall of cars across the motorway that the progressive motorist cannot get around.

    Of everyone kept to the speed limit this would never happen. I have never seen anyone in the overtaking lane of an Irish motorway doing less than the limit in free flow conditions.

    Keeping to the limit and overtaking someone on the inside doing 115kmh takes time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    If eradicating speed limits on certain parts of motorway leads to a higher number of deaths on the roads, like I think it would, then I don't think it's worth it. That's the point I was trying to make.

    An idiot driving at 120km/h is better than an idiot driving at 200km/h.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Of everyone kept to the speed limit this would never happen. I have never seen anyone in the overtaking lane of an Irish motorway doing less than the limit in free flow conditions.

    Keeping to the limit and overtaking someone on the inside doing 115kmh takes time.

    You don't drive much do you. I saw it three times this morning alone on the N7 and M50 S.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    coaches and trucks should have their limits lowered, **** the road hauliers association and the other groups they will do nothing about it

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    No. An excuse for assholes who think that when you are using the overtaking lane to overtake and they charge up to within 10 feet of your back bumper you should cut in and drive someone else off the road. You want people out of your way in a hurry get some blue lights.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Great idea!

    Charging along the M4 at 160 km/h when a lorry overtaking another lorry at 70 km/h pulls into your path.

    As I said, great idea.

    Yeah, preferably the change in limits would come into effect with a days notice. And happen at 11 a.m. on a Tuesday. Good man.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,197 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    c_man wrote: »
    Yeah, preferably the change in limits would come into effect with a days notice. And happen at 11 a.m. on a Tuesday. Good man.

    Wait, something would happen to stop lorries overtaking lorries at 70-80 km/h? I don't think so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Wait, something would happen to stop lorries overtaking lorries at 70-80 km/h? I don't think so.

    Usually when bringing in new laws/limits/whatever, there are associated measures taken with it. So as said increased campaign, clamping down on that, lessons to take stuff into account etc etc. Kinda what happens all the time with other stuff. You seem to think it would happen overnight with nothing to back it up. Kinda remind me of the anti-smoking-ban brigade's howling when the ban was proposed to an extent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,197 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    c_man wrote: »
    Usually when bringing in new laws/limits/whatever, there are associated measures taken with it. So as said increased campaign, clamping down on that, lessons to take stuff into account etc etc. Kinda what happens all the time with other stuff. You seem to think it would happen overnight with nothing to back it up. Kinda remind me of the anti-smoking-ban brigade's howling when the ban was proposed to an extent.

    Lorries overtaking on Motorways is already illegal. You could have a five year lead-in to the new limits and nothing would change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Lorries overtaking on Motorways is already illegal. You could have a five year lead-in to the new limits and nothing would change.

    I'm just in a bad mood thanks to Galways performance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,279 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Wait, something would happen to stop lorries overtaking lorries at 70-80 km/h? I don't think so.
    yes, if caught, a 50000 euros fine and a ban of up to 10 years

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Ferrari at 200 miles an hour is standing like they are going Fiestas!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Irish drivers can't be trusted to drive safely at the best of times.

    Removing speed limits would be carnage.

    If you can't stick to the speed limit then you shouldn't be on the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Patww79 wrote: »
    It's not preferable. But speeding isn't the single only evil on our roads the way some people (and the authorities) make it out to be. Far from it.

    It's not the only evil. But it is the biggest one. Along with motorists being in serious denial about its dangers and pretending that you HAVE to drive on the speed limit.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    It's not the only evil. But it is the biggest one. Along with motorists being in serious denial about its dangers and pretending that you HAVE to drive on the speed limit.

    I completely disagree with that. Speed is an exacerbating factor that turns the dumb things that Irish drivers do from survivable to fatal.

    It isn't the direct cause of accidents in itself. That's down to Paddy playing with his phone, pulling out of junctions in front of people too late, overtaking with traffic coming the other way, changing lanes without either looking or indicating and myriad other things that you will encounter on literally every car journey in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I completely disagree with that. Speed is an exacerbating factor that turns the dumb things that Irish drivers do from survivable to fatal.

    It isn't the direct cause of accidents in itself. That's down to Paddy playing with his phone, pulling out of junctions in front of people too late, overtaking with traffic coming the other way, changing lanes without either looking or indicating and myriad other things that you will encounter on literally every car journey in this country.

    These are issues too absolutely

    But it doesn't help that people insist on doing them with their foot to the floor.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Ferrari at 200 miles an hour is standing like they are going Fiestas!


    I was expecting him to break through the time barrier near the end of that video.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Irish drivers can't be trusted to drive safely at the best of times.

    The statistics say otherwise. Irish drivers are actually quite safe. I agree with you that removing speed limits would be foolhardy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    It isn't the direct cause of accidents in itself. That's down to Paddy playing with his phone, pulling out of junctions in front of people too late, overtaking with traffic coming the other way, changing lanes without either looking or indicating and myriad other things that you will encounter on literally every car journey in this country.

    How much have you driven abroad? In which countries?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,494 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    But it doesn't help that people insist on doing them with their foot to the floor.
    Really? My own experience of driving in Ireland, after 20 years of driving on the continent, is quite the opposite. You do see the occasional maniac, yes, but generally speaking I'd say I've never come across so many dawdlers on the roads, secondary, primary and motorways as I have here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Yes, that's what happens every single time someone goes fast. And going slower ensures it will never happen. Great insight.

    Stupid comment. That was neither stated or implied.

    If you checked the OPs quote highlighted viz.
    It might even help the economy! Well, it can't hurt right?

    And I posted
    Private health care companies, and car dealerships please note

    You would see the photo refers to the opportunities and challenges such a move could provide. Better read what is said rather than redrafting - its easier for the hard of understanding...

    But as to your unrelated comment -accidents on motorways at high speeds (and otherwise) do tend to yield greater opportunities for mass carnage.
    c_man wrote:
    First thing, I'm not referring to ditching all speed limits, or some lad coming off the M50 at 200mph into an industrial estate.

    Should we adopt a similar approach to our motorways as the German's have with their autobahns i.e. where it makes sense, we should have recommended speed limits on the particular sections of the motorway, rather than enforced limits?

    I was on the Dublin to Galway bus during the week, felt we could do it in a much better time. Plus I think it would be class.

    It might even help the economy! Well, it can't hurt right?


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Excessive speed isn’t the only cause of Motorway pile ups.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Excessive speed ins't the only cause of Motorway pile ups.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Excessive speed isn’t the only cause of Motorway pile ups.


    Says playback on other sites has been disabled by the owner :(


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gozunda wrote: »
    Says playback on other sites has been disabled by the owner :(
    I reposted it with a working link, but the original one can be seen if you go to youtube


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Even though I'd probably be more comfortable staying under 140km/hr myself, I wouldn't mind seeing limits increased to say 160km/hr, particularly on more rural stretchs of M-ways where there are good distances between exits. Only thing I would suggest though is that along with any increased speeds, there is a policy of zero tolerance for muppetry, particularly hogging overtaking lanes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭blueser


    c_man wrote: »
    First thing, I'm not referring to ditching all speed limits, or some lad coming off the M50 at 200mph into an industrial estate.

    Should we adopt a similar approach to our motorways as the German's have with their autobahns i.e. where it makes sense, we should have recommended speed limits on the particular sections of the motorway, rather than enforced limits?

    I was on the Dublin to Galway bus during the week, felt we could do it in a much better time. Plus I think it would be class.

    It might even help the economy! Well, it can't hurt right?
    You've lost me; why would it be ''class''?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭DanWall


    Why is it that in the UK dual carriageways and motorways are 70mph (113 km) and in Ireland dual carriageway 100km
    (63mph) with some parts of motorways also 100 km


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    blueser wrote: »
    You've lost me; why would it be ''class''?

    No problem. Going fast is fun. Or 'class' if you will. Add in that I started this thread this morning at 9ish, after a serious night last. Hope that clears things up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    jellyboy wrote: »
    For this "idea" to be valid ,we need motorways
    not the dual carriages we have that masquerade as motorways

    its a bit like going to Brown Thomas and buying a shirt with a primark label

    Stand over that one. How do you think they fall short? Have you seen the state of some of the German Autobahn network?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    I suppose it'd help natural selection to run its course.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,126 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I completely agree, I use the Autobahn very frequently and it's an excellent system. In Ireland, half the drivers don't even have a clue how to indicate when they're approaching or on a roundabout, never mind using a motorway.
    In theory you could have a system where drivers who have passed an advanced driving being allowed travel over 120Kmph in the outside lane when there are at least three lanes in a vehicle that is approved for such speeds, cf. German speed symbols on backs of vehicles, being allowed

    But if you've ever travelled from the M50 to the M4 or taken a trip on the Naas road to Naas you'd know that most Irish drivers (90%+ unless traffic is very heavy) Don't even have a clue of what lane they should be in.


    When you have idiots toddling along at 10-20Kmph under the speed limit in the middle lane and not prosecuted for obstruction or dangerous driving then asking for more hazards isn't on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    We need to get the scientists working on tube technology.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭GTE


    Lets teach ourselves how to drive on motorways before we speed our collective idiocy up.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DanWall wrote: »
    Why is it that in the UK dual carriageways and motorways are 70mph (113 km) and in Ireland dual carriageway 100km
    (63mph) with some parts of motorways also 100 km
    Because of the central barrier separating the flows of traffic. Some sections of UK dual carriageway do have lower limits because of crossover junctions & roundabouts and the like.

    There's nothing to stop a section of modern dual carriageway here having a limit of 120kph, It's just up to the local council to apply for it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭EDit


    Apart from the aforementioned issue with drivers not handling excessive speeds, the other issue with higher limits only in some areas is that most people would not slow down when they got to the end of that section, even if the signage told them to do so. Travel onto the Athlone by-pass from the M6 or into Dublin on the M7/N7 to see what I mean.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    EDit wrote: »
    Apart from the aforementioned issue with drivers not handling excessive speeds, the other issue with higher limits only in some areas is that most people would not slow down when they got to the end of that section, even if the signage told them to do so. Travel onto the Athlone by-pass from the M6 or into Dublin on the M7/N7 to see what I mean.
    There's often a Speed camera van sitting under the bridge just after the 100kph limit on the Athlone bypass.


  • Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭EDit


    There's often a Speed camera van sitting under the bridge just after the 100kph limit on the Athlone bypass.

    Yep, I've seen that myself a few times (more on the Dublin bound side near Eriksson turn off, though). Its less to do with that specific stretch of road, though...more to do with the concept that, once you allow someone to go at a higher speed on a road, if they don't leave that road and the road format does not change substantially, people appear to have less tendency to slow down unless they choose to (ie, even when signs tell us to do so). This would suggest that having sections of a motorway at, say, 150 kph, would likely result in a proportion of drivers just sticking at that speed for the rest of their journey on that road, regardless of what the signs are saying.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Several thoughts and comments.

    German Autobahn. There are long sections in some areas (eg Munich to Salzburg) that are the same as Irish Motorways, 2 lanes and a hard shoulder, with higher speed limits, and they work, even when one lane is seriously congested with HGV's that are not allowed in the second lane. In Germany, they obey that rule, so there's no danger of suddenly being faced with a HGV doing 70 Kph. I've driven that area a number of times, some of them in a RHD van that was limited to 110 Kph, so hard work, but even with the higher speed limits, it was still safe.

    Irish cars, the vast majority of them are not capable of much more than 120 Kph because the crazy tax system that's based on engine size has resulted in massive numbers of underpowered vehicles in this country, which often ends up costing more to run them, and has significant implications when trying to overtake on a single track road when the vehicle is fully loaded. A very telling experiment if you are looking for a new car is to have a careful look at what versions of that vehicle are offered in other European countries, and if the other countries all have a larger engined version as standard, then that's a good indication that the "Irish" version is likely to be a very poor performer, and it should be looked at very carefully before making a final buying decision. Another telling test is to take the vehicle out on a test drive, and put a couple of extra people in the back, and see what the acceleration is like, you may get a nasty surprise, in the mid 90's I took a Fiat Marea saloon out for a test run, and discovered that the 1.6 petrol engine version was close to being dangerous, it was so sluggish when fully loaded, when I looked into it, the rest of Europe all had the 1.8 engine as standard.

    Enforcement of lane discipline on HGV's and others. What enforcement? Doesn't happen with anything like the degree that's needed to get the attention of HGV drivers, or the huge numbers of drivers that don't have a clue how to drive on high speed roads.

    I'd also be very happy to see some checks on the Motorways for L drivers, there are plenty of them that don't see any problem using Motorways, and driving unaccompanied, and the chances of being caught are about as good as my chances of a good win on the lottery.

    Then, there's the issue of inaccurate speed indication systems in many vehicles. I've checked more than a few over the last few years with GPS systems, which because of the way that they work are accurate, unless you are driving around a maze, which is not often the case, if you're driving on "normal" roads at a steady speed, the GPS will give a very accurate calculation of the speed, and it's very often the case that the car speedo can be up to 15 Kph adrift, and 99% of the error is on the low side, so an "indicated" 120 Kph can be as low as 108 and the speedo is legal, and I've seen lower, the worst was a few years ago, a family member in the UK had an Escort, which was indicating 70, and they used to complain it took for ever to get to places, when I checked it, the "true" speed was 56 Mph, and that was checked in more than one way, so it was accurate. We've 2 vehicles in the family, one (Japanese 4x4) has a very accurate speedo, it's within 2 Kph at 120, the other (European small car) is way off, indicated 120 is 105 true. but getting it right would be a nightmare to do, as there's no way to adjust it, and unlike a commercial vehicle, there's no way to change the gearing of the speedo drive to get it right.

    The problem with this is that there is now so much fear of the speed trap vans, people don't even travel on the indicated speed limit, just in case they are going too fast. The end result is that they then sit there, in any and all lanes, doing what they swear is 120 Kph, but in reality could be as low as 105, but "I'm doing the limit, why should I move over", and the result is blockage after blockage.

    Personally, if the limit went up to 160, it would make no difference to me most of the time, the 4x4 gets expensive above 120, and won't do much more than about 140 anyway, and the other car isn't capable of getting to 160, but there have been times when being able to do a bit more (in other vehicles that were capable of faster) would have been helpful.

    Realistically, what's needed are variable speed limits, which would vary depending on things like weather conditions, and possibly time of day, the M50 at 1700 in the middle of December when there's heavy rain falling, and 0200 in the middle of summer in dry conditions are not the same, so it would make a lot of sense to have different limits that recognise those sorts of differences. Won't happen in my lifetime, if ever.

    If we were really serious, the "posted" limit would be a guide, rather than a target, and if an accident occurred, and in the opinion of the investigating officer, speed was a significant factor, then that should be the determining factor, regardless of what the sign might say. There are N roads in parts of the country where 80 kph let alone 100 Kph is not possible, and there are R roads with an 80 Kph limit where 120 is totally safe and can be done without risk. Being able to recognise that requires experience, so maybe one answer would be to have a system that imposes a lower limit on drivers that are either inexperienced, or have demonstrated an inability to respect the limits, or have had previous accidents due to speed.

    I'd also be happier to see a massive reduction in the number of speed limit signs, there are way too many now, and they are seriously inconsistent, with limits on some roads that are totally inappropriate, and have nothing to do with road safety, one classic example being the old N2, now R135, which for most of the distance from Dublin to Ashbourne has a limit of 60 kPH on it, which is as dangerous as having a limit of 100 Kph on it, it's an old N road, so not long ago, was deemed to be "safe" at 100 Kph, but now, trying to stay below 60 is boring and dangerous, it's too slow on a road that does not justify that limit.

    I've been driving now for over 40 years, and not had any accidents that would be speed related, and for a good number of years, I was driving as part of my work, so doing significant mileage, often on poor quality secondary roads, rather than motorways, and while I understand the issues of speed, in my view, it's being overdone here, there are plenty of other issues, (like mobile phone usage without handsfree, and drink) that are as big an issue as speed.

    As an example, why are companies not required to have hands free units fitted as standard in things like HGV's? The number of HGV drivers I see using mobiles in hand is massive, and the potential for damage or injury from an HGV is massive compared to a car.

    In danger of drifting off thread, but I suspect that there will be plenty of people that agree, and plenty that disagree at this stage.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭DanWall


    Irish Steve; I agree with most of your comments, but you must realise that the speedo indication is dependent on tyre ware.
    Or if the car has modified wheels/tyres. In my experience with my own cars, the GPS is 7 kmph less than the speedo, also the GPS is slower to respond


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    c_man wrote: »
    First thing, I'm not referring to ditching all speed limits, or some lad coming off the M50 at 200mph into an industrial estate.

    Should we adopt a similar approach to our motorways as the German's have with their autobahns i.e. where it makes sense, we should have recommended speed limits on the particular sections of the motorway, rather than enforced limits?

    I was on the Dublin to Galway bus during the week, felt we could do it in a much better time. Plus I think it would be class.

    It might even help the economy! Well, it can't hurt right?

    Let me put it this way : I just returned from a week in Germany yesterday evening. I've been driving quite a lot in Germany, visiting friends and family and did a good few hundred kms on various Autobahnen.

    Then we drove home from Dublin to Cork yesterday evening at around 10pm - and it was an utter nightmare.
    I'm sorry, but I can't say it any other way - there are too many Irish drivers who are nothing but bullies.

    While I was driving in Germany, the vast majority of people would keep a safety distance, even when I was overtaking and they were behind me clearly wanting to go faster. They stayed back and politely waited until I had safely pulled back in before in turn overtaking me.
    Back here, I had a lorry undertaking me while I was in lane and slowly approaching a red traffic light ahead.
    I then later watched as a lorry was overtaking another, with 5 (!) people belting past me in the overtaking lane, slamming on the brakes just before hitting the obviously slower vehicles in front of them and sitting on each others bumpers until the lorry's overtaking manoeuvre was complete.

    Having that recent and direct experience of the driving standards of the two countries, I'm almost inclined to suggest dropping the speed limit on Irish motorways even further until people have learned not to try and bully their way through every perceived "obstacle". Not that anybody obeys them here anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Back here, I had a lorry undertaking me while I was in lane and slowly approaching a red traffic light ahead.

    Why is that a problem? What you have described is legal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    mackerski wrote: »
    Why is that a problem? What you have described is legal.

    It was a problem because the gap he insinuated himself into wasn't actually lorry-sized...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Shenshen wrote: »
    It was a problem because the gap he insinuated himself into wasn't actually lorry-sized...

    You didn't actually mention that bit, just the irrelevant side he did it on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    mackerski wrote: »
    You didn't actually mention that bit, just the irrelevant side he did it on.

    Well, I can give you a detailed account of the event, I just felt it would make the post very long indeed.

    To flesh it out: I was doing the 60kph speed limit preparing to slow down as I had seen the red traffic light ahead when the lorry came alongside me on the left. He then proceeded to speed up significantly and swerved into the lane I was in, causing me to slam on the brakes and having a short religious moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,286 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    90% of irish people don't know how to drive on a motorway so it would probably be carnage.


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