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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #1832
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    A Greedy Algorithm wrote: »
    Where do they hide the captured Israeli soldiers, do they put them down a hole in the ground?

    If I was that soldier, I'd settle for that - not anywhere dangerous, like a school, hospital, UN shelter, etc.


  • #1833
    DeadHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    tayto lover wrote: »
    They don't need my advice.
    They will do whatever they deem necessary and fair play to them.

    I think even the most ardent critics of Isreal will agree that Hamas are an odious, murderous organization.

    They have cynically slaughtered their political rivals wholesale in Gaza and engage in medival religious coercion of Palestinians. They prefer to martyr their own people for political gain than make any real effort to protect them and, insanely, Isreal has played right into their blood soaked hands with it's own wanton brutality.

    So, no, not fair play to them. Fair play to no-one involved here except the brave non-combatant medical and emergency services on the ground in Gaza.


  • #1834
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    If I was that soldier, I'd settle for that - not anywhere dangerous, like a school, hospital, UN shelter, etc.

    Please no, please, stick me in the ground,

    Dont leave me under the protection of the UN


  • #1835
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    moxin wrote: »
    Are the Israeli's trying kill all 1.7m Palestinians in Gaza?
    Yes. Just slowly enough that we dont all kick up and call them the genocidal b'stards that they are.


  • #1836
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Fair play to no-one involved here except the brave non-combatant medical and emergency services on the ground in Gaza.

    Absolute heroes, those guys. I'd say they have inspired a new generation of medics.


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  • #1837
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Not banned? Illegal maybe?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-israeli-military-using-flechette-rounds-in-gaza-strip-9617480.html



    Either way the use of flechette rounds against civilians is ****ed up. You claim to be a military man but at this stage i'm.wondering if you have actually seen any action because anyone who has seen the devastation caused by artillery fire would not hesitate to condemn the barrage that the Palestinian people have had to face.

    Any specific incident involving the use of a flechette round may or may not be legal depending on the circumstances, just as with any other weapon.

    I have two tours under my belt. It is a bit rich of you to suggest that I am unaware of what wars do. For better or worse, warfare is governed by certain laws, and it is my job to conduct myself in accordance with them. Things like canister, fuel air explosives, phosphorus, flamethrowers, land mines, or even running people over with ny tank may all be gruesome, but it is my job to use every legal system at my disposal in the appropriate manner. Unpleasantness is a political problem for people paid much more than I am to figure out. If it's legal, it's legal, any form of death is pretty unpleasant.


  • #1838
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Any specific incident involving the use of a flechette round may or may not be legal depending on the circumstances, just as with any other weapon.

    I have two tours under my belt. It is a bit rich of you to suggest that I am unaware of what wars do. For better or worse, warfare is governed by certain laws, and it is my job to conduct myself in accordance with them. Things like canister, fuel air explosives, phosphorus, flamethrowers, land mines, or even running people over with ny tank may all be gruesome, but it is my job to use every legal system at my disposal in the appropriate manner. Unpleasantness is a political problem for people paid much more than I am to figure out. If it's legal, it's legal, any form of death is pretty unpleasant.

    IF its legal. There's the kicker.
    Is israel behaving in a legal manner here?


  • #1839
    moxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Presently the BBC have the picture of 1 missing Israeli soldier reported missing. No pics of the hundreds of kids they the Israelis murdered??http://www.bbc.com/news/world/middle_east/


  • #1840
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    DeadHand wrote: »
    They have cynically slaughtered their political rivals wholesale in Gaza and engage in medival religious coercion of Palestinians.

    Who are we talking about?


  • #1841
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Any specific incident involving the use of a flechette round may or may not be legal depending on the circumstances, just as with any other weapon.

    I have two tours under my belt. It is a bit rich of you to suggest that I am unaware of what wars do. For better or worse, warfare is governed by certain laws, and it is my job to conduct myself in accordance with them. Things like canister, fuel air explosives, phosphorus, flamethrowers, land mines, or even running people over with ny tank may all be gruesome, but it is my job to use every legal system at my disposal in the appropriate manner. Unpleasantness is a political problem for people paid much more than I am to figure out. If it's legal, it's legal, any form of death is pretty unpleasant.

    You denied the use of flechette rounds

    How many children and babies have you killed ?


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  • #1842
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Any specific incident involving the use of a flechette round may or may not be legal depending on the circumstances, just as with any other weapon.

    I have two tours under my belt. It is a bit rich of you to suggest that I am unaware of what wars do. For better or worse, warfare is governed by certain laws, and it is my job to conduct myself in accordance with them. Things like canister, fuel air explosives, phosphorus, flamethrowers, land mines, or even running people over with ny tank may all be gruesome, but it is my job to use every legal system at my disposal in the appropriate manner. Unpleasantness is a political problem for people paid much more than I am to figure out. If it's legal, it's legal, any form of death is pretty unpleasant.

    Couldn't you consider another career? Surely killing people to serve the interests of those who don't have your interests at heart must give you food for thought. Maybe not,I don't know,but if not then how do you justify it to yourself? or do you bother?Lot of questions I know but I'm curious but you don't need to answer if you don't want to.


  • #1843
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    moxin wrote: »
    Presently the BBC have the picture of 1 missing Israeli soldier reported missing. No pics of the hundreds of kids they the Israelis murdered??http://www.bbc.com/news/world/middle_east/
    Thats because they are biased in the extreme. Like all media outlets.
    When the fcuk are we going to wake up and actually do something here? Its no use on my own? What was that barcode from israel again? They like money so lets pull the plug on that one. Boycott the fcukers.


  • #1844
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Any specific incident involving the use of a flechette round may or may not be legal depending on the circumstances, just as with any other weapon.

    I have two tours under my belt. It is a bit rich of you to suggest that I am unaware of what wars do. For better or worse, warfare is governed by certain laws, and it is my job to conduct myself in accordance with them. Things like canister, fuel air explosives, phosphorus, flamethrowers, land mines, or even running people over with ny tank may all be gruesome, but it is my job to use every legal system at my disposal in the appropriate manner. Unpleasantness is a political problem for people paid much more than I am to figure out. If it's legal, it's legal, any form of death is pretty unpleasant.

    Next time you fire off a flechette round or white phosphorous or even a high explosive round into a civilian area maybe you should go.and look.at the results of your work. You may feel differently about it afterwards. Remember now, civilians.....not soldiers!


  • #1845
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    shedweller wrote: »
    IF its legal. There's the kicker.
    Is israel behaving in a legal manner here?

    Different issue. I was responding to the claim that Israel has been using banned weapons. Of all Israel's faults, that has not been one of them.

    I am unlikely to ever be associated with Israeli actions. I am, however, quite likely to be associated with the use of various weapons, the same rules for which apply to me as to an Israeli soldier. I may as well set the record straight.


  • #1846
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Next time you fire off a flechette round or white phosphorous or even a high explosive round into a civilian area maybe you should go.and look.at the results of your work. You may feel differently about it afterwards. Remember now, civilians.....not soldiers!

    What makes you think I haven't? Part of my first tour was within the city of Mosul.


  • #1847
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Next time you fire off a flechette round or white phosphorous or even a high explosive round into a civilian area maybe you should go.and look.at the results of your work. You may feel differently about it afterwards. Remember now, civilians.....not soldiers!

    It's hard to know how you can compartmentalize that. But then again look at the plight of the vietnam vets which is well documented and look at the damaged british and american soldiers of recent conflicts. However some seem able to return to civilian life.


  • #1848
    Voltex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Make you wonder what they make those schools and hospitals out of doesn't it for the IDF to blow up. Their own childrens' bones I guess you'll tell me.
    So Hamas launches rockets from a school as below


    What should the IDF do? Ignore the rockets? Hamas are purposely leveraging the international media to garner support. Its a classically contrived David and Goliath media stunt.


  • #1849
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    What makes you think I haven't? Part of my first tour was within the city of Mosul.

    Have uou?


  • #1850
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Voltex wrote: »
    So Hamas launches rockets from a school as below


    What should the IDF do? Ignore the rockets? Hamas are purposely leveraging the international media to garner support. Its a classically contrived David and Goliath media stunt.

    What type of warhead is on those "rockets" ?


  • #1851
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    What makes you think I haven't? Part of my first tour was within the city of Mosul.

    The fact you advocate the use of thermobaric weapons tells me much about you. Flachettes, thermobarics, white phospherous? All crimes against humanity.


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  • #1852
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    What makes you think I haven't? Part of my first tour was within the city of Mosul.

    This Mosul

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/27767


  • #1853
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    shedweller wrote: »
    Thats because they are biased in the extreme. Like all media outlets.

    You've been watching different coverage to me then. The BBC website is full of pictures of civilians in Gaza.

    Jon Snow's report on channel 4 was pretty moving as well, especially when he broke down.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/31/jon-snow-gaza-video-backed-channel-4


  • #1854
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭brimal


    shedweller wrote: »
    Thats because they are biased in the extreme. Like all media outlets.
    When the fcuk are we going to wake up and actually do something here? Its no use on my own? What was that barcode from israel again? They like money so lets pull the plug on that one. Boycott the fcukers.

    Please explain...


  • #1855
    Voltex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Voltex


    hju6 wrote: »
    What type of warhead is on those "rockets" ?
    Warheads are stamped with "Made in Iran" but cheque book stubs say "Central Bank of Qatar, Saudi, Turkey and Iran".


  • #1856
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Voltex wrote: »
    So Hamas launches rockets from a school as below


    What should the IDF do? Ignore the rockets? Hamas are purposely leveraging the international media to garner support. Its a classically contrived David and Goliath media stunt.

    What about that YouTUbe video you advised us to watch showing the secret cache of Hamas which amounted to an arsenal that could launch WW3? What's with these lame comments about 'leveraging international media' and 'David and Goliath media stunt'. The international media has being more than fair to Israel on their campaign careful to repeat the mantra that 'Israel has the right to defend itself' presumably with the intention to hypnotizing people into indifference.


  • #1857
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Voltex wrote: »
    Warheads are stamped with "Made in Iran" but cheque book stubs say "Central Bank of Qatar, Saudi, Turkey and Iran".

    Saudi Arabia and Turkey are client states of the US.You're just talking nonsense.


  • #1858
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not a bit red faced and cringey typing that phrase?

    I would offer him a job on Fox News. I could see Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly refer to terror tunnels.


  • #1859
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Voltex wrote: »
    So Hamas launches rockets from a school as below


    What should the IDF do? Ignore the rockets? Hamas are purposely leveraging the international media to garner support. Its a classically contrived David and Goliath media stunt.

    Who's to say it was Hamas? In previous post I posted the UN had noted that the IDF has used UN schools.. Maybe their IDF comrades had just just lost a few of them and thought they were Hamas?
    Quote:
    “When they are in control of the school they can [be assured] that it is free of weapons and no one with arms is allowed in the school,” Mr. Ging said.

    Both militants and the Israeli Defense Forces had occupied those schools in the past, he added, “we deplore that but we cannot control” the schools when the UN is not physically present in the building.
    It's Okay for the IDF to be hanging out in UN schools but god damn those others being in there..

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...9#.U9vsUZ69nqs

    Care to share your opinion why the good guys would be using a UN school for operations?


  • #1860
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    KahBoom wrote: »
    Obama pretty much just stated his unwavering support of Israel, and congress just spent a quarter of a billion restocking Israel with ammunition to drop on Gaza - Israel have absolutely free reign with practically zero official/governmental international outcry (just words, no real actions - from our own government, as well as most others).


    If people are boycotting Israeli goods over the Gaza conflict and the treatment of Palestinians then they really should be including America in this boycott. America provides money, arms, logistical support and moral cover for Israel to murder, steal land and terrorise the Palestinians. Internationally America should be included in the boycott.


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  • #1861
    DeadHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Who are we talking about?

    Hamas. Says it right there in the first paragraph.


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