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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #1682
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    What about the supporters of Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

    They are only left with Qatar supporting them, a nation that treats poor foreign workers to slavery, and North Korea that has been accused by the UN as being akin to Nazi Germany.
    What about the what? Is that just some random spittle filled shouting organisation names to the air expecting some sort of "OMG, you're SO right!" in answer?
    You mean this UN?
    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/
    Anyway, that's an argument ad populum. They're right because some other guys say they are right even though I haven't a clue why they are right myself.


  • #1683
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    RobertKK wrote: »
    What about the supporters of Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

    They are only left with Qatar supporting them, a nation that treats poor foreign workers to slavery, and North Korea that has been accused by the UN as being akin to Nazi Germany.

    The talking points memos you were handed a few days ago have run out and you are repeating yourself.


  • #1684
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not justifying any wrongdoing.

    I am just providing a bit of balance, there has been wrong done on all sides, all we by some is how terrible Israel is.
    At least Israeli's valued their lives enough unlike some Gazans who were blowing themselves up and other on buses and restaurants.

    Hamas have also bombed Gaza, their rockets don't always escape Gaza when fired.

    Ask yourself why are they blowing themselves up ffs man. People dont do it for nothing, for every action there is a reaction, and Israels actions create these terrorists.


  • #1685
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,660 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not justifying any wrongdoing.

    So you condemn Israel for killing civilians?


    Hamas have also bombed Gaza, their rockets don't always escape Gaza when fired.

    I think HQ has recalled that memo


  • #1686
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not justifying any wrongdoing.

    I am just providing a bit of balance, there has been wrong done on all sides, all we by some is how terrible Israel is.
    At least Israeli's valued their lives enough unlike some Gazans who were blowing themselves up and other on buses and restaurants.

    Hamas have also bombed Gaza, their rockets don't always escape Gaza when fired.
    Ziopologist handbook bullshine 101.
    "balance" "hate their own people" "not justifying deliberately bombing sleeping children but I actually am".


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  • #1687
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You support kidnapping?

    He hadn't been kidnapped@ DUCY?


  • #1688
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Hamas are a terrorist group, unlike the IDF despite what people want to say.

    If Loyalist terrorists took an Irish soldier during the troubles, would it be kidnapping or prisoner of war.

    Capturing a soldier during a conflict is not a terrorist action, and Hamas as the elected government of Gaza is both a terrorist organization and a state military organization. So in this specific instance, they have not committed a terrorist act by capturing a POW.
    Of course, what really matters is how they treat the aforementioned POW. It could still turn out to be a terrorist act depending on what happens next, eg if they refuse to afford him his internationally guaranteed rights as a POW.


  • #1689
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Does North Korea really support Hamas anyway? In any substantive manner?

    I mean every time Kim Jong-un is finished bathing in the tears of virgins of a morning, and just before he heads off to smash another golf record, he will probably head to a pulpit and denounce the US whilst supporting whomever is fighting the US ( or it's proxies) that day. If he even said anything.

    In terms of material support? Nothing.


  • #1690
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not justifying any wrongdoing.


    At least Israeli's valued their lives enough unlike some Gazans who were blowing themselves up and other on buses and restaurants.

    Yes but they don't value the Palestinians lifes at all and many of their government ministers and supporters don't seem to consider them human. What about you? Do you think they are human and worthy of life and a peaceful existence?


  • #1691
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Ask yourself why are they blowing themselves up ffs man. People dont do it for nothing, for every action there is a reaction, and Israels actions create these terrorists.

    Religious fanaticism as opposed to desperation in 5, 4, 3... :rolleyes:


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  • #1692
    ElChe32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭ElChe32


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Capturing a soldier during a conflict is not a terrorist action, and Hamas as the elected government of Gaza is both a terrorist organization and a state military organization. So in this specific instance, they have not committed a terrorist act by capturing a POW.
    Of course, what really matters is how they treat the aforementioned POW. It could still turn out to be a terrorist act depending on what happens next, eg if they refuse to afford him his internationally guaranteed rights as a POW.

    Absolutely...lets hope they afford him the same treatment Israel does to the 500+ interned Palestinians...oh wait..

    Surely they'll treat him like the Israelis do with detained Palestinian kids...

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/06/2013620192613601306.html


  • #1693
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Religious fanaticism as opposed to desperation in 5, 4, 3... :rolleyes:

    They like to spout that line too, the muslims hate us because we drink and vote but thats just ballocks, they hate us because of our foreign policy in there homelands.


  • #1694
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So what good did the Palestinian kidnapping of an Israeli soldier do for the Palestinian people?


    How is he 'kidnapped'?

    He is a POW prisoner of war,

    Not a hostage, not kidnapped


  • #1695
    myshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    Liberalbrehon wrote: »
    Philosophical question
    People asking to boycott Israeli goods I have a question. Lets say you are married and have a few kids who rely on your paycheck for everything otherwise you are homeless. now you work for a company that has close ties with an Israeli firm and you have to work with Israelis, would you follow your own advice and refuse to work with the Israelis, and most likely get fired to feel better but let your own family suffer?

    1 f#cking million gazillion percent YES. And I mean that with every ounce of my will. Every.

    See everyone tomorrow.


  • #1696
    opinionated3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Hamas also happen to be the elected government in Gaza.

    I don't remember the Irish army invading the north and killing thousands of unionists.

    How about dealing with what's happening rather than using stoooooopid makey uppey scenarios?

    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?


  • #1697
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?

    I'd imagine they've more immediate worries.


  • #1698
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You support kidnapping?

    Would he not be considered a POW?


  • #1699
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    h2005 wrote: »
    Would he not be considered a POW?


    When Israel do it its taking prisoners, when Hamas do it its terrorist kidnapping.


  • #1700
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?
    OK, for the 1,000,001st time.
    Give us a definition of "terrorist" that doesn't also cover the IDF or this whole post is meaningless sewage.

    You are also saying it was morally correct for Osama Bin Laden to destroy the Twin Towers as civilians who had voted in the US government were in those buildings?


  • #1701
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    h2005 wrote: »
    Would he not be considered a POW?

    Only Palestinians are allowed to called POW :rolleyes:


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  • #1702
    ElChe32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭ElChe32


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?

    We had this discussion earlier, as to why Hamas were elected, go back a few pages and read. Israeli actions fall under the banner of TERRORISM. The labeling of a group a terrorist group is pointless as has been pointed out a billion times.


  • #1703
    KahBoom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭KahBoom


    Obama pretty much just stated his unwavering support of Israel, and congress just spent a quarter of a billion restocking Israel with ammunition to drop on Gaza - Israel have absolutely free reign with practically zero official/governmental international outcry (just words, no real actions - from our own government, as well as most others).

    In western nations in particular, our governments increasingly represent the population less and less as the years go by, and more pander to well funded lobby groups - they are increasingly detached in operation, from the population.


  • #1704
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?

    Is the correct title for them a terrorist organisation when they have been elected by their people in free elections?


  • #1705
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Nodin wrote: »
    When Israel do it its taking prisoners, when Hamas do it its terrorist kidnapping.
    Apparently defending your country AT ALL is now terrorism.
    My terrorist toilet roll just ran out on me and my terrorist dog did a piss in my kitchen. My terrorist nose is itchy.
    IDF lovers: the word is ****ed. Stop using it.


  • #1706
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am not justifying any wrongdoing.

    I am just providing a bit of balance, there has been wrong done on all sides, all we by some is how terrible Israel is.

    Every little helps but you've along way to go!


  • #1707
    donegal__road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 953 ✭✭✭donegal__road


    Orthodox Jew and Zionist Sir Gerald Kaufman, veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

    During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel. Such a pity there weren't more like him on the other side of the Atlantic...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8


  • #1708
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    “When they are in control of the school they can [be assured] that it is free of weapons and no one with arms is allowed in the school,” Mr. Ging said.

    Both militants and the Israeli Defense Forces had occupied those schools in the past, he added, “we deplore that but we cannot control” the schools when the UN is not physically present in the building.

    It's Okay for the IDF to be hanging out in UN schools but god damn those others being in there.. :rolleyes:

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48369#.U9vsUZ69nqs


  • #1709
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    opinionated3 wrote: »
    So you're saying the civilians in gaza elected a bunch of terrorists to represent them? That was clever wasn't it? Would it also be fair to say that Hamas, being a recognised Islamic terror organisation wouldn't like people like me too much ie from the West and a Christian?

    You lost all credibility in this thread when you insisted that Israel were blowing up tunnels that led into Israeli territory and it was pointed out that the tunnels were actually leading into Egypt and not even near Israel.


  • #1710
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    If those jewish terrorists didnt come to somebody elses land, displace and massacre the population who were living there for centuries there would be no Hamas?? Do you not agree???????

    It was biblical prophecy that Israel would be restored.
    The nation of Israel in various prophecies would arise again when people thought it was gone for ever, with all it's traditions and language.
    One of the prophecies says before Israel could be restored, the Jews would be in foreign lands and would be hunted down.
    You might like this bit in the bible "you have behaved more wickedly than your ancestors. See how all of you are following the stubbornness of your evil hearts instead of obeying me."
    'I will send for many fishermen,” declares the Lord, “and they will catch them. After that I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them down on every mountain and hill and from the crevices of the rocks'
    'They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.”
    But after the persecution it goes onto say:
    'As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their ancestors.'

    It was biblical prophecy that Israel would be restored after a great persecution.


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  • #1711
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It was biblical prophecy that Israel would be restored.
    The nation of Israel in various prophecies would arise again when people thought it was gone for ever, with all it's traditions and language.
    One of the prophecies says before Israel could be restored, the Jews would be in foreign lands and would be hunted down.
    You might like this bit in the bible "you have behaved more wickedly than your ancestors. See how all of you are following the stubbornness of your evil hearts instead of obeying me."
    'I will send for many fishermen,” declares the Lord, “and they will catch them. After that I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them down on every mountain and hill and from the crevices of the rocks'
    'They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.”
    But after the persecution it goes onto say:
    'As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their ancestors.'

    It was biblical prophecy that Israel would be restored after a great persecution.


    O jesus no.............


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