Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

culbaire · 20-07-2014 9:55am

Orizio wrote: »

I don't care about Waterford's inner politics, and I have no reason to favour Ryan, McGrath, Tinkerbell or anyone the **** else. I'm not from Waterford.

I'm simply pointing that of all the major teams Waterford's conditioning and fitness is miles behind everyone else.

I have already outlined above why this management is out of its depth. I would not disagree either with your statement re fitness. It is the responsibility of Derek McGrath and the management team to ensure that the team is fully fit. It does not just boil down to lack of fitness alone. Lack of fitness is part of a far bigger problem. Lack of fitness is a further reason why the management team should go.

deisewood · 20-07-2014 10:11am

can anyone tell me when is the last time we were knocked out this early , i am not biased to any coach, but under michael ryan last year we would have expected to beat wexford and limerick , derek mcgrath has come in and we have been relegated to division 2 and knocked out of championship at our earliest stage in almost 20 years , clearly with michael ryan it was clash of personality with players , when he was in charge of de la salle they won county and munster titles , mcgrath took over and they went in to decline , there is lack of experience throughout waterford management team , the players are fit most are training with clubs and colleges all year , maybe we are not as good as we think but surely with the success of minor over last 6 years contesting munster finals we have some talent , another point and maybe i am wrong but the guy doing the stats knows absolutely nothing about hurling , maybe he does not have to . next year we have no chance of promotion from 1b with the likes of limerick and wexford getting stronger , all in all in 12 months we have gone from an expected quarter final slot to limping out ,

KevIRL · 20-07-2014 10:13am

Knocked out at the same stage last year deisewood. We went down fighting though a lot more last year

seananigans · 20-07-2014 10:26am

deisewood wrote: »

can anyone tell me when is the last time we were knocked out this early , i am not biased to any coach, but under michael ryan last year we would have expected to beat wexford and limerick , derek mcgrath has come in and we have been relegated to division 2 and knocked out of championship at our earliest stage in almost 20 years , clearly with michael ryan it was clash of personality with players , when he was in charge of de la salle they won county and munster titles , mcgrath took over and they went in to decline , there is lack of experience throughout waterford management team , the players are fit most are training with clubs and colleges all year , maybe we are not as good as we think but surely with the success of minor over last 6 years contesting munster finals we have some talent , another point and maybe i am wrong but the guy doing the stats knows absolutely nothing about hurling , maybe he does not have to . next year we have no chance of promotion from 1b with the likes of limerick and wexford getting stronger , all in all in 12 months we have gone from an expected quarter final slot to limping out ,

Plenty chance getting promoted, we can rest our players now and go back to training sooner than our competition, I don't think Derek will get sacked or leave, so we're stuck with him , but I doubt he's fooled himeself into thinking that he's good enough.

We played the best hurling of the year last night, but given that we played a lot more freely, player were confused from not having played like that previously , if we had done it all year, might hae been a different story .

a lot of underage/college comps done in winter months meaning lots of practice, should be aiming to get promoted next year,no excuses

Tramore84 · 20-07-2014 11:01am

I heard an interview this morning on WLR about a 3 year plan - the 3 year plan must be a personal plan for Derek to acquire enough experience and nous to operate properly as a senior county hurling manager - not sure what benefit the 3 year plan can have for the players. Some young players made their debut this year and Gleeson and Dunford will hopefully go on to star for Waterford for a long time however that has nothing to do with the present management. I have been going to matches a long time and I never heard the Waterford crowd give out so much. In the second half when the team came back out there was no roar - no applause from the Waterford fans. The confidence and belief is being sucked out of the players and supporters - talking about the future and the young players to come is waffle. This management team cannot get the best out of the present team - never mind bring through the underage talent that is there. The U21 cluster**** last week is another example of this as McGrath spoke all year of using the U21 as a template for the 'plan' and way of playing. This management team should be binned.

Alf Tupper · 20-07-2014 11:13am

culbaire wrote: »

How Ryan Donnelly, Jamie Barron and Ray Barry were dumped off the panel for tonight is beyond me. Richie Foley and Jamie Nagle are out of favour as well.
QUOTE]

If that is true and I've no reason to doubt it, if I was anyone of those players I know what I would be saying to Del Boy McGrath come next season. Go and f*ck yourself.

Somebody else told me that Stephen Roche was in the match squad last night and we know that Martin O'Neill was, only because it was announced on TV that he was coming on. Don't think he touched a ball.

Stand up Jim Green and take a bow. The last time there was an east/west divide was when you were again involved back in the mid 80's. The same skulduggery went on last night that went on then.

Flannery, Shanahan, and Maher go hang your heads in shame. None of the three of you made any contribution all year. When push came to shove McGrath and Greene picked the team and squad last night.

I know first hand that the spirit in the camp was at an all time low. Certain players not even being spoken to by McGrath or any else of the management team for months.

I always knew from his DLS days that McGrath was a spoofer and a bluffe and it has been borne out al year.

But hey,it's all ok Derek, heard you apologised again last night.

How many times is that this year??

Just feel sorry for the likes of Donnelly, Barry, Nagle and Barron etc, to train all year and to be just discarded last night like that by McGrath and Greene.

Feel sorry to for Stephen Bennett too, a young lad thrown to the wolves last night by a so called manager with all the answers who really doesn't even know the questions, never mind the answers. Stephen Bennett is nowhere near match fit

God, you just couldn't make this stuff up.

Compare McGrath and Greene with Staunton and Robson. Forget the other three none entities who posed as selectors, they never had a say anyway.

Well Derek, you're the gaffer, you're the boss, the buck stops with you.

Yourself and Greene have reopened an east/west split that has been dormant since 1997 when Gerald came in so for God's sake do the decent thing and go.

Go back to writing slogans on ball alleys and collars of jerseys for school teams because that's about the level you're at.

culbaire · 20-07-2014 11:16am

deisewood wrote: »

can anyone tell me when is the last time we were knocked out this early , i am not biased to any coach, but under michael ryan last year we would have expected to beat wexford and limerick , derek mcgrath has come in and we have been relegated to division 2 and knocked out of championship at our earliest stage in almost 20 years , clearly with michael ryan it was clash of personality with players , when he was in charge of de la salle they won county and munster titles , mcgrath took over and they went in to decline , there is lack of experience throughout waterford management team , the players are fit most are training with clubs and colleges all year , maybe we are not as good as we think but surely with the success of minor over last 6 years contesting munster finals we have some talent , another point and maybe i am wrong but the guy doing the stats knows absolutely nothing about hurling , maybe he does not have to . next year we have no chance of promotion from 1b with the likes of limerick and wexford getting stronger , all in all in 12 months we have gone from an expected quarter final slot to limping out ,

The spin is already starting among McGrath supporters about how we must target promotion. It's an effort to divert attention from what has been a disastrous year. I agree with you re Limerick and Wexford. Indeed in wet cold conditions of Winter Waterford could struggle to beat Laois and Offaly. Even countries like Carlow are beginning to improve. Nobody in division 1B will fear Waterford any more.

The media will close ranks and swing in behind the management team. That's the Waterford way. It is the road to mediocrity. Its the road to disaster. Its always next year is "on the horizon". We are in the here and now. This is some mess. Watch for all the excuses appearing in print. Watch for the promises of "bread tomorrow". Watch the failure to ask the hard questions over the next few weeks. At least here there is robust debate and the hard questions will be asked. Is it any wonder that Waterford has not won a senior hurling All Ireland since 1959. This management team should resign and drop the nonsense about three year plans.
Waterford supporters voted with their feet last night. They have had enough. This will spill over into attendances at matches and cost the County Board more money.

culbaire · 20-07-2014 11:25am

@Alf Tupper
Ryan Donnelly , Jaime Barron and Ray Barry did not even make the panel. Richie Foley and Jamie Nagle got no game time last night. We need an outside coach to stop this East /West divide which has opened up once more. It is time for the Co. Board to take hard decisions NOW. The current management team lacks the expertise necessary to take a talented group of players forward. It is a shambles.

The blue blaa · 20-07-2014 11:35am

Annie Oakes wrote: »

Id love to know how Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley. Molumphy are not getting their game on this team even from the bench for the first two , really puzzles me, ( i spose they are all from west clubs)

I dont wanna bring this forum into a michael ryan/ derek macgrath discussion but look at the facts lads. Ryan only lost his job cos a clique of players didnt like him and prob cudnt understand his accent.

Just a note also to : Seananingans, redlead and pht2009- this is a waterford hurling forum try keep personal info off the forum please its just clogging it. cheers lads.

Two things really annoy me about the complete ignorance of this post, obviously you have not got a clue what your on about.

Us east & west players actually get on great an have no bitterness towards each other yet ppl like you try make out there's a divide between us. If you put in half as much time into the game you might understand that.
Secondly Michael Ryan is an absolute gent and I'd love to know who exactly this clique of players are and if they couldn't understand his accent does this imply that again its East folk. Your seriously out of your depth on them statements. A little bit more thought into what your spouting wouldn't go a stray.

alllcounty · 20-07-2014 11:43am

I heard Derek McGrath on the radio aswell going on about his 3 year plan, FFS does the man have no shame.The first time I heard MCgrath wanted the waterford job was on here last year before we played Offaly up in Tullamore. There were 2 posters on here with links to the Ballygunner club kept saying Derek Mcgrath should be manager and we were wasting our time with Ryan. Back then nobody took them seriously as what had McGrath achieved up to then. He managed a school team and won harty cups in 07/08 with a very good team spending a fortune on them at the time. The only adult team he managed was DLS for 2 years where they went backwards.

But since then we have learned McGrath was working behind the scenes all the time when Ryan was in charge keeping in contact with his former pupils he had managed in DLS. We learned he was putting ideas in their heads, that he could take them to the next level and it was after this braining washing that 8 players from the east held a badly orgainsed meeting hours before our minor team took to the field in Croke Park and rang and coerced other players to row in behind them.

The meeting was set up to get rid of Michael Ryan so it would pave the way for Derek McGrath to come in, after which he was odds on favourite with the bookies. We had a man in charge last year that was trying to get Waterford playing a positive brand of hurling on a more consistent basis. We were very good from 1 to 9 but needed more forwards to compete for the all ireland. The forwards were on their way from the underage set up and we were moving in the right direction.

Then this whole mess came along with Derek Mcgrath pulling the stings behind the scenes. The man hasn't a clue what he is doing and has no idea how to get the best out of the players we have coming through the underage set up. For the sake of Waterford hurling he has to step aside. He will contine to talk about his 3 year plan to buy himself more time so he can destroy the young players coming through, so it is up to the county board now to step up and replace him. Too much has been invested in developing underage talent in this county to see it been destroyed by him.

phkk · 20-07-2014 11:46am

Can somebody tell me what was Willie Maher's role? Was he the coach/trainer? Perhaps skills coach? Or who did the training with Waterford? When did Jim Greene get involved? I'm very surprised at that because I was hurling with a club in America before and Jim came in to give us a motivational talk circa 1999 and talking about a bluffer... I said it to many people up here last year that when Waterford got rid of Michael Ryan, they would be finished for afew years, especially after their performance against us in Thurles and then to do so on the morning of the minor game. Why didn't Waterford go out and play 15 v 15 the way they did with great style for so many years?

Alf Tupper · 20-07-2014 11:48am

alllcounty wrote: »

I heard Derek McGrath on the radio aswell going on about his 3 year plan, FFS does the man have no shame.The first time I heard MCgrath wanted the waterford job was on here last year before we played Offaly up in Tullamore. There were 2 posters on here with links to the Ballygunner club kept saying Derek Mcgrath should be manager and we were wasting our time with Ryan. Back then nobody took them seriously as what had McGrath achieved up to then. He managed a school team and won harty cups in 07/08 with a very good team spending a fortune on them at the time. The only adult team he managed was DLS for 2 years where they went backwards.

But since then we have learned McGrath was working behind the scenes all the time when Ryan was in charge keeping in contact with his former pupils he had managed in DLS. We learned he was putting ideas in their heads, that he could take them to the next level and it was after this braining washing that 8 players from the east held a badly orgainsed meeting hours before our minor team took to the field in Croke Park and rang and coerced other players to row in behind them.

The meeting was set up to get rid of Michael Ryan so it would pave the way for Derek McGrath to come in, after which he was odds on favourite with the bookies. We had a man in charge last year that was trying to get Waterford playing a positive brand of hurling on a more consistent basis. We were very good from 1 to 9 but needed more forwards to compete for the all ireland. The forwards were on their way from the underage set up and we were moving in the right direction.

Then this whole mess came along with Derek Mcgrath pulling the stings behind the scenes. The man hasn't a clue what he is doing and has no idea how to get the best out of the players we have coming through the underage set up. For the sake of Waterford hurling he has to step aside. He will contine to talk about his 3 year plan to buy himself more time so he can destroy the young players coming through, so it is up to the county board now to step up and replace him. Too much has been invested in developing underage talent in this county to see it been destroyed by him.

The problem is he will not have many of the young players because they won't stick around and take the S8it that was thrown at them this year while Derek and his school buddies sold Waterford hurling down the river.

Alf Tupper · 20-07-2014 11:56am

phkk wrote: »

Can somebody tell me what was Willie Maher's role? Was he the coach/trainer? Perhaps skills coach? Or who did the training with Waterford? When did Jim Greene get involved? I'm very surprised at that because I was hurling with a club in America before and Jim came in to give us a motivational talk circa 1999 and talking about a bluffer... I said it to many people up here last year that when Waterford got rid of Michael Ryan, they would be finished for afew years, especially after their performance against us in Thurles and then to do so on the morning of the minor game. Why didn't Waterford go out and play 15 v 15 the way they did with great style for so many years?

Greene is probably the most divisive character in Waterford hurling. That's the reason he never got the Manager's job.

You're bang on the money, a complete and utter spoofer.

The problem is though he's nothing if not resourceful so he found a way this year to get involed, recognising McGrath as the lightweight he is.

The thing is he's a chancer with an agenda. There's always an angle with Greene.

Hence the two Mount Sion guys parachuted on to the panel last night.

deisedoz · 20-07-2014 11:56am

Someone remarked to me coming out of Nowlan Park last night that going to matches and supporting this setup has more in common with an unwanted chore than attending for enjoyment. I don't think there is a more damning indictment than that

deisewood · 20-07-2014 12:28pm

watching the match yesterday , waterford were woeful yet still they only lost by 3 points , waterford are a hurling team that play with rhythm , when we are good we are good , when we are bad we are bad , there was no rhythm yesterday , trying to change systems and the way team plays to show you are a clever manager simply didnt work , michael ryan kept us in 1a and we were at least competitive in all matches last year , michael ryan got sacked for not been popular amongst players . mcgrath has to go , dan shanahan lacks experience but his heart is with waterford hurling , john mullane retired because he couldnt get on with ryan any other reason is just smokescreen , managers are there to do a job not to be your friends , not everyone will be happy . I cant understand why we dont have a coach good enough though , is it due to lack of coaching courses , we have two good coaches in kevin ryan and jason ryan doing good jobs in other counties , people say donal og for manager but has he got the experience yet , why not bring in someone like donal o grady or liam sheedy and appoint a young waterford coach to work with them . we should be watching what kilkenny are doing in terms of training and structure , kilkenny havent changed the way they played and it works ,

robopaddy · 20-07-2014 12:43pm

Were all gutted about last night's result and how the year has petered out but can we lay off the personal remarks about guys. Using it as an excuse to air your personal grievances about certain people and clubs is not really in anyone's interest. Remember we are talking about volunteers here at the end of the day everyone who does it does it for the love of the game and their county. Yes we are in crisis but no one has set out deliberately to cause this.

I'm more interested in hearing about where people think we go from here...

Hamstrings59 · 20-07-2014 1:03pm

How they stayed looking at lawlor full back all night I'll never know he was always a disastr waiting to happen and putting on seamus prendergast for fcuk sake

redlead · 20-07-2014 1:05pm

Annie Oakes wrote: »

Just a note also to : Seananingans, redlead and pht2009- this is a waterford hurling forum try keep personal info off the forum please its just clogging it. cheers lads.

I didn't say anything remotely personal about anyone.

The forum could do with less of your east v west tripe too. It's absolute nonsense. Unfortunately the lack of maturity shown by many Waterford hurling people highlights why we should never have a manager from Waterford.

Hamstrings59 · 20-07-2014 1:06pm

Well said paddy, the personal attacks on the management and their clubs and East Waterford have been sickening these last few months, some fellas call themselves Waterford men and supporters, fcuk off, hang ye're heads in shame, ye know who ye are

ct98 · 20-07-2014 1:10pm

Based on the performances this year, I can't see any evidence of going in the right direction. I find the management decisions very hard to understand. Now the question is - where to from here? Over previous years the players have forced out management who have done better. Apart from the losses this year, it's the manner of the displays (negativity) that is most concerning. Is this management team the right people to bring through our underage talent? I don't think so.

Waterford cd · 20-07-2014 1:19pm

Simple McGrath has to go the man hasn't a notion , thinks he's this tactical genius put his just another one of them clowns

deisedoz · 20-07-2014 1:28pm

Hamstrings59 wrote: »

How they stayed looking at lawlor full back all night I'll never know he was always a disastr waiting to happen

Lawlor pulled up in warm up and was receiving extensive treatment before throw in from what I could see. Management should have either not risked him or taken him off at ht. Lawlor has not once let the team down over the years and if he is perceived to have done so now when not fit that is the managements fault.

JeffKenna · 20-07-2014 1:34pm

deisedoz wrote: »

Lawlor pulled up in warm up and was receiving extensive treatment before throw in from what I could see. Management should have either not risked him or taken him off at ht

I didn't see that as I was at the other end of the pitch. Pity if true as despite all the criticism he receives it's the first poor performance in championship I've seen him turn in.

Hamstrings59 · 20-07-2014 1:56pm

Why didn't lawlor put his hand up so and say he wasn't fit to play???

Ropaire · 20-07-2014 2:07pm

Moran was shocking at center back and left runners clean through on Lawlor. Brick should never have been moved away from center back.

McGrath has to go, its been obvious for a long time that the lad is way out of his depth. Outside manager needed, but who would want the job now? On top of rebuilding the shattered confidence and pulling a fractured squad back together the McGrath fanclub will be sniping and mouthing undermining whoever we get. Its a nightmare scenario but hopefully we can recover to some sort of decent level next year.

taytobreath · 20-07-2014 2:09pm

Just wondering, Whats the story with Maurice Shanahan, is he still injured? why didn't he play last night if he wasn't?
I know he was injured but I would of thought he'd be fit by now.

culbaire · 20-07-2014 2:12pm

This is a disaster for Waterford hurling. We need an outside coach with a proven track record. Lets be blunt: The current management team lacks the expertise necessary. That is not being personal. It is a statement of fact. There are excellent coaches available in Cork and Kilkenny. It is much more difficult to accuse an outside coach of favouritism.

The disaster this year has major implications for Co. Board finances. It is likely that the county will be in division 1 B for a few years. Do you realise the implications of that for the development of Waterford hurling? It is not so long ago that Waterford sank to Division 3 in hurling and was beaten by Mayo and Roscommon. Don't think that it could not happen again. No team in Division 1 B will be afraid of Waterford after this.

This is a shambles which needs to be addressed immediately. Knowing Waterford as I do the media will seek to shut down debate on the issue of new management.
Do you think this shambles would be acceptable in Kilkenny and Cork?
What has really angered knowledgeable Waterford supporters in city and county alike is:

The negative brand of hurling being played.

The stupid selectorial decisions,.

Lack of fitness of the players,.

The failure to get the best out of talented players.

The lack of a pattern of play.....

Evident lack of coaching in defence and attack

The fact that the team has gone back since last year

The deterioration in skill levels

As far as I am concerned Waterford stretches from the Cork border to Waterford harbour. It is one county.

hurler on de ditch · 20-07-2014 2:21pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Id say Brick, Seamus Prendergast, Stephen Molumphy and Shane Walsh will all retire and then what a state we will be in. A team full of youngfellas and only a small handful of experienced players.

Its a dark dark day in Waterford hurling today and things are going to get worse if things are not changed.

Hopefully the minors will win on tuesday and give us something to cheer about. If we lose it will be tough because we would only have a 5 day turn around before we could play Dublin in the all ireland quarter final.

At the end of the day Mcgrath is not going to be sacked or walk away so we just have to get on with it.

Expectations next year would be to get a top 4 finish in the league and possbilly a few championship wins but 1B will be tough with both Limerick and Wexford in it and to a lessner extent Laois and Offaly

Brick retiring might not be a bad thing his hurling has declined so much in the last few years he has barely hit a ball with a hurl,great athelete ,great man ,but a hurler no,Shane Walsh all be it out best chance of getting a goal over the last few years ,was injured more times than he played ,Molumphy has a year left max,as for Sheamus great man who never let us down but best days are behind him ,,throw Kevin Moran,Shane o Sullivan,P Mahoney ,and you have another 3 that promise so much and deliver so little ,Plenty of top class hurlers in Waterford but unfortunately the Fish rots from the head ,everything that is wrong with Waterford hurling is the responsibility of the County Board ,the state of hurling ,finance,PR,County Grounds etc etc

PTH2009 · 20-07-2014 2:22pm

i wish the supporters could get together and get the management team removed eg petition etc.

The players wont get rid of Mcgrath and he wont walk away either.

We just have to stick with him and hope he improves next year

Wexford and Limerick are in 1b next year too and we have to beat them and the other 3 teams to get promotion.

Anyone going to the minor match tuesday. ??

KevIRL · 20-07-2014 2:27pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

i wish the supporters could get together and get the management team removed eg petition etc.

The players wont get rid of Mcgrath and he wont walk away either.

We just have to stick with him and hope he improves next year

Wexford and Limerick are in 1b next year too and we have to beat them and the other 3 teams to get promotion.

Anyone going to the minor match tuesday. ??

Yep, am going.

As for a petition. That is mental talk and we'd be even more of a laughing stock. Would be pretty hard to get many signatures from actual supporters too considering the poor turn out for games this year.

Its a pity but our so called excellent support really has gotten shown up over the past few years for being just as bandwagon jumping, big day out loving as the rest of the counties. When the chips were down the people didnt come out

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Comments