Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

comongethappy · 10-07-2014 06:38AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You seem to be an expert on Hamas military operations, would you like to share your sources?
A justification for the killing of innocent civilians by the IDF if ever I heard one.

I'm an Israeli spy.

Well..... that, or I seen a Hamas video used on the BBC news yesterday showing that very thing (as the previous poster said).

Top notch as always Elmer.

FTA69 · 10-07-2014 10:00AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

There was a report on the BBC news last night with what the Libyan's would have called a "technical", a toyota pick-up truck with a multiple rocket launcher on the back and it was in plain sight on a street surrounded by houses.

Considering Gaza is the most densely populated place in the world that's unsurprising.

Hamas LOVES civilian casualties, because it can hype up impressionable arab youth into hating Israel and fool gullible western sympathisers into opposing Israel's right to defend itself.

Israel is not "defending itself". Israel is the aggressor in the region. It maintains a brutal occupation in the West Bank and is engaging in systematic theft and robbery of Palestinian land in order to build illegal settlements. To facilitate this, they have encircled the entire area with a barrier that has annexed over 10% of Palestinian territory and also crippled the local economy. Furthermore, they have instituted a system of apartheid in the parts of the West Bank they have under their control as well as East Jerusalem where Palestinians are slowly but surely being pushed out as a result of punitive measures taken against them. Gaza remains under total siege and is almost an open air prison at this stage.

And the Palestinians are the aggressors? Do I need to show you the statistic comparing the respective death tolls? It's hilarious you're calling people "gullible" because they don't agree with systematic land-grabs and forcible expulsions backed up by a nuclear-equipped military.

The IDF warns civilians to clear out of areas before making attacks, it isn't the IDF's fault if idiots decide to suicide themselves by being human shields for Hamas http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2014/07/gaza_civilian_casualties_while_hamas_targets_innocent_people_israel_tries.html

"Idiots" like the seven children killed two days ago? So poor and powerless people who get blown to pieces by Apaches and Jericho rockets are simply idiots and it's their own fault? And you're calling people gullible? Laughable stuff. And when Israel decide to drop a missile on a packed apartment block in the hope of killing a Hamas member are the casualties there too idiots as well?

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are the ones making indiscriminate attacks on civilians, but you'll hear the usual suspects on here say stuff like "oh they've only got unsophisticated rockets not like Israel" conveniently ignoring the fact that the 40lb of explosives on a grad rocket is plenty good a killing if it hits the right target, not to mention the more sophisticated missles that Hamas seems to have now.

Yeah, so sophisticated there have been no Israelis killed by them at all. As I said, I'm not defending the rocket attacks but it's clear they have little other response to Israel's siege of Gaza and it's occupation of the West Bank.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 02:05PM

The problem is poor old israel have an even bigger seige mentality than gaza I'm afraid. They surround gaza but they themselves are penned in. Years of paranoia built up from defending borders has made them think far different to you or me. All these strikes are not just about taking out hamas but showing neighbours that they're prepared to do anything to protect themselves. Israels biggest threat is if it's neighbours actually come together. It's a show of force, but the catch is you have young palistines and pro palistines growing more and more hatred toward them. Surely it will end one way or another

pO1Neil · 10-07-2014 02:26PM

comongethappy wrote: »

No one condones that.

Though when a truck with a rack of katyushas on the back parks on a street to unleash its salvo, it can't be surprising that the IDF will hit the location.

Perhaps collateral damage might be less if Hamas would refrain from hiding in civilian streets.

Well the IRA did same & over 1500 Irish kids weren't killed in the space of 20 years by British security forces. The IRA's bombs were a lot more devastating to the UK than Hamas's are to Israel.

I take offense to "collateral damage" part. Where the people killed on Bloody Sunday just that or the two little boys killed at Warrington in 93 or the 3 little babies & a full unborn in the Dublin Bombings just "collateral damage"to you? It should be called for what it is - murder of civilians. if they are just "collateral damage" to you fine I find that term very,very cold & dehumanizing.

wes · 10-07-2014 02:53PM

SeanW wrote: »

With people who's stated objective is to drive the Jews into the sea?

Zionists already literally drove Palestinians into the sea, after the ethnic cleansing in 1948, quite a few Palestinians fled via the sea to Gaza, some of them even lived in what is now called Sderot......

So, again how exactly are Zionist any better, seeing as they have already literally done what some in Hamas want to do?

comongethappy · 10-07-2014 02:55PM

pO1Neil wrote: »

I take offense

Feeling offended is your choice I suppose.
Though you can see from the tone of my posts, I'm not seeking to offend.

And if your that precious to find the words "collateral damage" offensive, you may be in the wrong forum.

Also, using such emotive language in favour of one side over another, as you seek to do doesn't help debate.

Gringo180 · 10-07-2014 03:12PM

comongethappy wrote: »

doesn't help debate.

There is no debate, the facts are the Israeli's are in the wrong and have been since they were promised another peoples land by Balfour, there state was founded on Jewish and Zionist fundamentalists who are every bit and in my opinion worse than Hamas.

Conas · 10-07-2014 03:17PM

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

comongethappy · 10-07-2014 03:24PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

There is no debate, the facts are the Israeli's are in the wrong

That's that then.

Can a mod close the thread?

irishmays · 10-07-2014 03:39PM

Conas wrote: »

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

But where will israel and USA test new weaponry. This situation is a perfect small scale war for them to test their army's bottle.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 03:54PM

And hamas for that matter too

Conas · 10-07-2014 04:01PM

irishmays wrote: »

But where will israel and USA test new weaponry. This situation is a perfect small scale war for them to test their army's bottle.

USA and Israel, can only pick on people that are smaller than them that's why. Or as the USA done in Japan, just use nuclear weapons. Will Obama sanction Israel for this? Like he did to Russia? No he won't, because he's too much of a whimp. America gives Israel $3 billion in aid, and this is all they get. Well 10s of millions live in poverty, and vets die from lack of healthcare. Who will pay for all this damage done to Gaza? America will. It'll probaly cost them billions of dollars more.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 04:28PM

Conas wrote: »

USA and Israel, can only pick on people that are smaller than them that's why. Or as the USA done in Japan, just use nuclear weapons. Will Obama sanction Israel for this? Like he did to Russia? No he won't, because he's too much of a whimp. America gives Israel $3 billion in aid, and this is all they get. Well 10s of millions live in poverty, and vets die from lack of healthcare. Who will pay for all this damage done to Gaza? America will. It'll probaly cost them billions of dollars more.

Sanction israel?! For what sure America supports most of their nonsense it doesn't support Russia that's why they were sanctioned. Come on now

paulmcshane · 10-07-2014 04:46PM

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

comongethappy · 10-07-2014 04:57PM

paulmcshane wrote: »

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

There is always hope.

They have made some attempts to achieve nationhood, but I think they are prevented fro going the whole hog.

I do think the time has long passed for the Intl community to assist though.

Ideally tens of thousands of blue UN helmets would be buffering the 1967 west bank border preventing Israeli encroachment.... Alas that was probably never on the cards.

Conas · 10-07-2014 04:58PM

paulmcshane wrote: »

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

Well then Obama and the US goverment, can't keep mouthing off about being about freedom and democracy then. Two countries that are always involved in a war or conflict every decade since WW2. It's terrorism for the brown coloured Arab muslims and not terrorism for others. They have made a total mockery of the US the Israeli's have. The Americans won't step in, because the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

You have to hand it to them though, they have the yanks by the balls, and the whole world can see it.

paulmcshane · 10-07-2014 05:01PM

Conas wrote: »

Well then Obama and the US goverment, can't keep mouthing off about being about freedom and democracy then. Two countries that are always involved in a war or conflict every decade since WW2. It's terrorism for the brown coloured Arab muslims and not terrorism for others. They have made a total mockery of the US the Israeli's have. The Americans won't step in, because the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

You have to hand it to them though, they have the yanks by the balls, and the whole world can see it.

Hit the nail on the head.

BlaasForRafa · 10-07-2014 05:01PM

Conas wrote: »

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.

As for everything being paid for by the US, last I looked Israel's defence spending was about $18 billion per year, about $3 billion of which is provided by the US. So, the Israeli taxpayers have to spend $15 billion of their hard earned money per year defending their country. Israel, by necessity, has had to become the world leaders in anti-missile technology, do you seriously think that Israel would rather spend that money on Iron Dome or on better health services?

And I see you're another one that goes on about "home made rockets". The Qassam rockets are made in Hamas facilities but Grad rockets are not, they are supplied by Hamas's buddies in Iran, who have also supplied longer range missiles to them.

comongethappy · 10-07-2014 05:03PM

Conas wrote: »

the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

Top Gun analysis right here.

Next up: how racial stereotyping will solve the North Korean issue.

Gringo180 · 10-07-2014 05:10PM

IMO if it was down to Obama he would be definitely sanctioning the Israeli's and calling for them to go back to pre 67 borders. The tail wags the dog in America, there is too many Zionists and Israeli sympathisers that have congress bought off, the likes of AIPAC and other lobbies.

Why would America continually support them otherwise, they have no interests in the region, it only causes them more harm than good. Its madness really that they continue to back them.

Nodin · 10-07-2014 05:37PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.
.

Israel doesn't annex the West Bank outright because that would take far too many Palestinians, hence the slow drip methodology employed.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 05:40PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

IMO if it was down to Obama he would be definitely sanctioning the Israeli's and calling for them to go back to pre 67 borders. The tail wags the dog in America, there is too many Zionists and Israeli sympathisers that have congress bought off, the likes of AIPAC and other lobbies.

Why would America continually support them otherwise, they have no interests in the region, it only causes them more harm thanI good. Its madness really that they continue to back them.

No interests? It's nice to have friends close to really scary enemys

mrsweebri · 10-07-2014 05:51PM

I rather like the idea of external peace keepers on the internationally recognised borders. They could be there ostensibly to prevent suicide bombers/rocket attacks on Israel and therefore remove the reason that most Israelis support the occupation/settlement expansion. Great idea.

Gringo180 · 10-07-2014 05:54PM

irishmays wrote: »

No interests? It's nice to have friends close to really scary enemys

It wouldnt effect mainland America if Israel crashed and burned tomorrow, they should look after there own people instead of worrying about a country thousands of miles away that causes them more harm than good.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 06:00PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

It wouldnt effect mainland America if Israel crashed and burned tomorrow, they should look after there own people instead of worrying about a country thousands of miles away that causes them more harm than good.

Well you might be right but America is not well liked around them areas and strategically israel is a good base to keep an eye on things. That's my take. America really couldn't give a fiddlers as to what hamas and Israel do to each other.

Gringo180 · 10-07-2014 06:07PM

irishmays wrote: »

Well you might be right but America is not well liked around them areas and strategically israel is a good base to keep an eye on things. That's my take. America really couldn't give a fiddlers as to what hamas and Israel do to each other.

The only reason why there not liked in the region is because of there foreign policy, nothing more nothing less.

I am not saying cut all ties with the Israeli's, but just stop there unwavering support of there atrocities committed against the Palestinians.

irishmays · 10-07-2014 06:17PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

The only reason why there not liked in the region is because of there foreign policy, nothing more nothing less.

I am not saying cut all ties with the Israeli's, but just stop there unwavering support of there atrocities committed against the Palestinians.

Not so much support as couldn care less as I said. Their America's allie like it or not

edanto · 10-07-2014 06:23PM

Quoting @tejucole from Twitter:

Quite early in a conversation, you can tell if someone considers Palestinian life literally equal to Israeli life. The rest flows from that.

Conas · 10-07-2014 06:45PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.

As for everything being paid for by the US, last I looked Israel's defence spending was about $18 billion per year, about $3 billion of which is provided by the US. So, the Israeli taxpayers have to spend $15 billion of their hard earned money per year defending their country. Israel, by necessity, has had to become the world leaders in anti-missile technology, do you seriously think that Israel would rather spend that money on Iron Dome or on better health services?

And I see you're another one that goes on about "home made rockets". The Qassam rockets are made in Hamas facilities but Grad rockets are not, they are supplied by Hamas's buddies in Iran, who have also supplied longer range missiles to them.

Well if they want to be a war all the time, that's there business. They should pay every last cent of the bill themselves. Why should hard working Americans give them billions of dollars in aid to kill the Arabs each year? and get nothing out of it. No country has had more resolutions passed against it at the UN than Israel, not to mention having nuclear weapons, and refusing to sign the NPT.

They're doing everything they can to start a war with Iran over the last few years. Why don't they grow a pair of balls and go and do the fighting themselves. All their supporters too can man up, and go and put their boots on the ground.

pO1Neil · 10-07-2014 07:04PM

comongethappy wrote: »

Feeling offended is your choice I suppose.
Though you can see from the tone of my posts, I'm not seeking to offend.

And if your that precious to find the words "collateral damage" offensive, you may be in the wrong forum.

Also, using such emotive language in favour of one side over another, as you seek to do doesn't help debate.

Would you use the same term for Irish or English kids killed during the north conflict?

If I said the people killed at Enniskillen or Bloody Sunday or the two boys at Warringpoint were collateral damage would you not be offended =?

Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

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