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SSM Referendum Spring 2015

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Comments

  • #992
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Give unto Caesar what is Caesars...not sure marriage is Caesars...

    Civil marriage is. If it's not done before god, she doesn't even recognise it's existence, so she hardly gets a say on the legal definition of it.


  • #993
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don't see that as committed, if he believes what he believes but then puts it aside, it shows what he believes has weak foundations.
    It is not like Lucinda Creighton who believes what she believes and sacrificed a good job for it, when many in her party put aside beliefs for power and influence within the party.
    He's not forcing someone to abide by religious rules,how exactly does this make the foundations of his belief weak? It's much weaker if you feel that you must force people to abide by your religious beliefs,can't they make their own choice?
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I don't buy the "if you're against gay marriage, don't have one." Or it's older brother, "if you're against abortion, don't have one."

    People are perfectly entitled to oppose things they don't agree with in the public realm. It is not jsut a case of not doing those things themselves.
    If you can't provide rational reasons to oppose something then your entire basis for your opinion is negative as limiting the rights of others with no basis. Not one person in this debate has provided a legitimate basis to prevent it.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Namecalling is used when a debate is lost or very weak.

    Now can you make a few fact based points against gay marriage then? Forcing people to abide by your beliefs is not a reasonable point,we're not a theocracy....

    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is to silence debate.

    I am finished posting in this thread.
    I wish all well, whatever way one is voting.

    Okay so your sticking to not making points. Good luck with that.


  • #994
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is to silence debate.

    No, silencing a debate is when you attempt to prevent people from calling a glaringly obvious homophobe a homophobe. Like what the Iona Institute did.


  • #995
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,123 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That was said mainly in jest SW.
    d'oh :o

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #996
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Claims of all no voters being bigots and homophobic is one.

    I was told on national radio, I was a "bigot" for following my religious faith.

    I was told on national radio I should not go to the polling station on the day of the referendum if I was voting No. That I did not have the right to vote in the way I intended.

    I am sure the listeners were astounded as I was in reply to a text I had sent in, which said people of committed religious belief and who don't hate anyone will vote no, as I would be doing.

    All I got was vile, and told I shouldn't use my democratic right. Yes, a national radio station telling people not to vote...and committed religious believers are bigots.

    The thing about it really is, who the fúck do you think you are to tell me, an Irish citizen just like you, what I am and am not entitled to?

    The answer is really you're nobody to dictate my rights. So even though we need a referendum by technicality, anything other than a yes vote is wrong. No debate about. No nonsensical, pseudoscientific drivel or spiel about it.

    It's like me voting to abolish the practice of your religion in this country, just because I don't like or agree with it.
    Like the issue of gay marriage, if it doesn't affect you, don't stand against it.

    Otherwise you'll only come across as a self entitled bigot -just like those gobshítes in America in the past who were against interracial marriage and thought they had the right to dictate their ideas onto others.


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  • #997
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is to silence debate.

    Please, it's feigned offense at best.

    "Oh, someone called me homophobic? Gosh darn, it's ruined my day." :rolleyes:

    I get called a liberal bigot this, PC brigadin' fascist that, LGBT Nazi the other, it happens constantly. Has this silenced me for even a second? Not a chance! The only people in this debate who are in the business of silencing is the no side who feign shock and offense at being called on their bullsh*te and set the legal hounds on people. So cut the "help, I'm being oppressed!" act, people aren't buying it.


  • #998
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SW wrote: »
    d'oh :o

    But your response was all serious!

    I say "mainly" because I do beleive that people would benefit from living their lives as I see fit.


  • #999
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Links234 wrote: »
    Please, it's feigned offense at best.

    "Oh, someone called me homophobic? Gosh darn, it's ruined my day." :rolleyes:

    I get called a liberal bigot this, PC brigadin' fascist that, LGBT Nazi the other, it happens constantly. Has this silenced me for even a second? Not a chance! The only people in this debate who are in the business of silencing is the no side who feign shock and offense at being called on their bullsh*te and set the legal hounds on people. So cut the "help, I'm being oppressed!" act, people aren't buying it.

    Exactly. If your skin isn't thick enough to handle a bit of flak for holding a certain position then what's the point of holding the bloody thing in the first place?


  • #1000
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    "I've been called a greasy-thug before too. And it never stops hurting."

    - H J Simpson


  • #1001
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Poll should have an option:

    "Support it but not gonna bother voting"

    This is the only way I can imagine SSM Referendum losing.. Can be sure that anyone who is against SSM is going to vote No - but those who see nothing wrong with SSM might not translate into a Yes vote (If I'm making sense)


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  • #1002
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    one of my good female friends is currently dating a woman for years now,

    she grew up like i did, imagining the day she got married,playing pretend with the white dress, imagining up a big pretty white dress, big party,looking forward to spending the rest of her life with the person she loved most in the world,

    i watch her looking at my wedding photo's and they make her sad, because she is looking at what is now, a dream that is not legally possible for her, and why? because the person she loves is a girl,

    now the people of Ireland are being asked to vote on her dream, her future and the future of every woman or man in that situation,

    no matter what your religion, or your sexuality, or what you believe, no-one should be denying her the chance of marriage, a wedding, a secure future..etc

    as i say, why should we get it and not her? we both fell in long term love, both relationships should be equal,


  • #1003
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Under God we are all equal, it doesn't mean men can give birth to babies, one can marry the same sex, one can take human life, sleep around or whatever but we should treat others with respect.

    If you are a Catholic and following you faith, though people like Enda Kenny make a joke of it (after watching him on the meaning of life) you can receive the Eucharist.


    What lies have the "yes" side said about the consequences of the referendum gay marriage being approved or disapproved Robert, and why do I have to chase you for examples of a thing you yourself claimed~?


  • #1004
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    It will be passed, no doubt.

    It's just a natural step forward for us as human beings.

    Everyone deserves happiness regardless of who they love.

    I hope there's also a referendum for trans rights.

    Changing official gender, name changes and the like.

    There wont be. Its not needed thankfully.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1005
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There wont be. Its not needed thankfully.

    I have a transgender friend and as far as I'm aware you can't legally change your gender in Ireland.

    Maybe I'm wrong and you can?

    That's great news if you can.


  • #1006
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,123 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    But your response was all serious!
    the d'oh was aimed at myself not you ;)
    I say "mainly" because I do beleive that people would benefit from living their lives as I see fit.
    understood:)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1007
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    one of my good female friends is currently dating a woman for years now,

    she grew up like i did, imagining the day she got married,playing pretend with the white dress, imagining up a big pretty white dress, big party,looking forward to spending the rest of her life with the person she loved most in the world,

    i watch her looking at my wedding photo's and they make her sad, because she is looking at what is now, a dream that is not legally possible for her, and why? because the person she loves is a girl,

    now the people of Ireland are being asked to vote on her dream, her future and the future of every woman or man in that situation,

    no matter what your religion, or your sexuality, or what you believe, no-one should be denying her the chance of marriage, a wedding, a secure future..etc

    as i say, why should we get it and not her? we both fell in long term love, both relationships should be equal,

    This, oh yes, this. <3

    The ballot card should be a gilt-edged invitation +1 to share in the happiness of all the Irish people in love. RSVP Tá/Níl.


  • #1008
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SW wrote: »
    the d'oh was aimed at myself not you ;)

    understood:)

    D'ohs all round so :-)


  • #1009
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    one of my good female friends is currently dating a woman for years now,

    she grew up like i did, imagining the day she got married,playing pretend with the white dress, imagining up a big pretty white dress, big party,looking forward to spending the rest of her life with the person she loved most in the world,

    i watch her looking at my wedding photo's and they make her sad, because she is looking at what is now, a dream that is not legally possible for her, and why? because the person she loves is a girl,

    now the people of Ireland are being asked to vote on her dream, her future and the future of every woman or man in that situation,

    no matter what your religion, or your sexuality, or what you believe, no-one should be denying her the chance of marriage, a wedding, a secure future..etc

    as i say, why should we get it and not her? we both fell in long term love, both relationships should be equal,
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.


  • #1010
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.

    Neither is good enough, why should she have to settle for these options?


  • #1011
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    RobertKK wrote: »
    What is the point of having a belief if you don't believe it and do the opposite?

    Lots of odd beliefs in the Bible

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


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  • #1012
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    I have a transgender friend and as far as I'm aware you can't legally change your gender in Ireland.

    Maybe I'm wrong and you can?

    That's great news if you can.

    You're correct. However, there's no constitutional change needed, so a referendum isn't required. The Government can legislate on it.


  • #1013
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.

    Hmmm. Why is that the answer for everything?

    No jobs for the young people - go abroad.

    No abortion available - go abroad.

    No marriage for gay people - go abroad.

    Sure wasn't it the case not so long ago there were no contraceptives for people and they had to go abroad (well, across the border)...


  • #1014
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Just a single person voting no because of their religious beliefs.

    Where's the poster that said Ireland is a Catholic State?

    anseo


  • #1015
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.

    Such fúcking arrogance


  • #1016
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.

    Sure couldn't Rosa Parks have just sat at the back of the bus?

    All that fuss over civil rights for nothing!


  • #1017
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    You're correct. However, there's no constitutional change needed, so a referendum isn't required. The Government can legislate on it.

    Seriously? Then why haven't they yet?

    Really hope they're priorities for them.


  • #1018
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    She has options. She can go abroad to get married or she can have a civil partnership.

    Wunderbar! Ireland, exporting our social problems since 1922 :rolleyes:


  • #1019
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Neither is good enough, why should she have to settle for these options?

    Why would any self respecting human being want to get married in a church who despise her?


  • #1020
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    RobertKK wrote: »
    All I got was vile, and told I shouldn't use my democratic right. Yes, a national radio station telling people not to vote...and committed religious believers are bigots.

    I'm not being funny (and I wasn't listening to the radio today), but have you considered that not voting is actually a good option for some religious people?

    Like seriously, I'm sure there are people out there who know it goes against the teachings of their religion, but who also have nothing against gay people. If they vote against, they basically vote in favour of inequality, if the vote for, they vote against their religion. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    So in seriousness, not voting is actually a viable option if you're not homophobic but are religious.


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  • #1021
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Why would any self respecting human being want to get married in a church who despise her?

    Eh,nobody is asking to be married under the church... Civil marriage is under the state and a legal contract.


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