SSM Referendum Spring 2015

P_1 · 01-07-2014 10:42pm

Nodin wrote: »

....which again imposes their belief on others who think differently by denying them the right to marry. They, however, are free to carry on acting in accordance with their beliefs regardless of the outcome.

Yes but having them refrain from imposing their views on you can be interpreted as you imposing your views on them and then we're stuck in a loop

dxhound2005 · 01-07-2014 10:43pm

Nodin wrote: »

....which again imposes their belief on others who think differently by denying them the right to marry. They, however, are free to carry on acting in accordance with their beliefs regardless of the outcome.

If there was an existing consensus and no competing arguments there would be no need for a vote. When there is a vote everyone will have to accept the result.

Zed Bank · 01-07-2014 10:46pm

Woodville56 wrote: »

I don't have a problem with gay marriage , my issue is with those who from their own conscience and convictions ( religious or otherwise) are being labelled as homophobic, stupid, looney, intolerant etc . There are many good and decent Christian people of various religions who will vote against this legislation out of deeply held beliefs and who are not homophobic or stupid either.
It's the labelling by LGBT I dont like . If all Catholics who follow catholic teaching vote against this legislation, are you really saying that each of these voters are homophobic or stupid or both ? I didn't think that having a conscience about something would be so objectionable to LGBT !
As for myself I'm not anti gay or anti SSM, just anti those who name call and insult anyone who has a different view or who admits to believe in an "imaginary god" as described earlier in a posting here .
As for my voting intentions , jury still out on the marriage thing, probably will support the legislation but not impressed with the tone of the LGBT spiel so far - might impress the converted but dunno how it will go down with your average catholic who has concerns about this issue to be labelled stupid or homophobic , might just backfire !

I honestly cannot understand this viewpoint whatsoever.

If you believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong and therefore want to infringe on the rights of gay people, that makes you a homophobe. end of.

Religion dose not justify intolerance.

tomwaterford · 01-07-2014 10:49pm

Zed Bank wrote: »

I honestly cannot understand this viewpoint whatsoever.

If you believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong and therefore want to infringe on the rights of gay people, that makes you a homophobe. end of.

Religion dose not justify intolerance.

I think its just means a little bigoted....as I always took homophobia to mean an illogical fear of the homosexuals??

now what would they rather be called homophobic or bigoted

Nodin · 01-07-2014 10:53pm

P_1 wrote: »

Yes but having them refrain from imposing their views on you can be interpreted as you imposing your views on them and then we're stuck in a loop

No, because there's no action required on their part. They're free to not be gay, not gay marry and not have sex outside marriage all they want.

There's apparently a need for a referendum because legal advice with regard to the constitution declares the law requires it.

RayM · 01-07-2014 10:54pm

fran17 wrote: »

the problem with attempting to gather any credible data surrounding how this referendum would go is that any individual who makes the slightest leaning towards voting no in the public domain is automatically labelled a "homophobe" and a vicious attack and character assassination campaign by the pro lobby groups ensue.or likewise when the good people of Ireland are polled on the street they now feel they cannot give there true opinion because we're now told its not politically correct to disagree with this issue.
on the day of this referendum people can vote in secret with the security of knowing that they wont be vilified in the polling booth for expressing there democratic right to have a different opinion.i believe this referendum will be defeated

The right to hold a different opinion is one thing. Actively seeking to deprive other people of basic rights is quite another. Politically or otherwise, it's not correct. There are no valid reasons to oppose marriage equality. The religious arguments make about as much sense as voting for an election candidate because they're a Sagittarius.

tomwaterford · 01-07-2014 11:00pm

RayM wrote: »

The right to hold a different opinion is one thing. Actively seeking to deprive other people of basic rights is quite another. Politically or otherwise, it's not correct. There are no valid reasons to oppose marriage equality. The religious arguments make about as much sense as voting for a election candidate because they're a Sagittarius.

is it not legal marriage and has nothing to do with the church???this religious thing just seems pointless

fleet_admiral · 01-07-2014 11:02pm

When is there going to be a change in the law to give single fathers the same rights as single mothers

comongethappy · 01-07-2014 11:02pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

this religious thing just seems pointless

And dishonest.

For 90% of the RCCs history, they had no issue with homosexuality.

For political expediency they changed their tune to appease the conservative rulers of the then, newly unified Italy.

Woodville56 · 01-07-2014 11:08pm

Cydoniac wrote: »

Are voters being forced into gay marriage? It would seem it from the way you're talking. I might have 'deeply held beliefs' about ketchup being atrocious but I'm not going to act offended if others eat it, am I?

Trivialising and smoke-screening the issue here ! Where did I say or suggest that voters were being forced into gay marriage - please point out where I said that or otherwise retract it It's this type of silly allegation and innuendo that detracts from the LGBT argument in my view! My point all along in my postings is that both sides should respect the others reasoned arguments in the debate without resorting to name calling and insults.
I believe that someone who would campaign against this referendum to have questions to answer as regards their motives but I cannot accept that someone who, in the privacy of the polling booth, for their own considered reasons, votes no, could be deemed to be homophobic or stupid - it's just to much of a generalisation and there's where I differ with LGBT. My contribution to this debate closed now - it's past my bedtime !

SEPT 23 1989 · 01-07-2014 11:08pm

So we have to listen to the far right catholic headbanger lobby groups poisoning the media for the next year

Woodville56 · 01-07-2014 11:11pm

Zed Bank wrote: »

If you believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong and therefore want to infringe on the rights of gay people, that makes you a homophobe. end of.
.

Where did I say that ?? Please show me ???

RDM_83 again · 01-07-2014 11:13pm

Daith wrote: »

In fairness alot of rights are already covered by civil partnership. The main thing is adoption.

In Ireland a single gay person can adopt but a couple can not adopt. This leads to the main argument that same sex marriage means gay adoption. It doesn't. Gay people can already adopt.

However the Government are surprisingly being clever here and look set to pass a bill which among other things will allow gay people to adopt jointly. Therefore regardless if SSM referendum passes or not, gay joint adoption will still happen.

Thus when the referendum comes around the only debate should be about allowing to same sex people to marry. Not about their ability to raise children.

Actually my only concern, which I have raised in another thread, is the situation that has occurred in the UK where Marriage equality has resulted in the closure of every Catholic adoption agency, now I am sure that a popular thing among the AH crowd but remember when you Hi-five the idea of a child not being raised by a Catholic family thing you are really doing is making some poor womans already difficult decision even harder.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I haven't asked my parents but everyone else I know will vote yes (not surprisingly). I'll be flying home to vote yes especially (although I know that displeases many - fcuk yiz :P)

Yeah it displeases people because its a blatant breach of election law and a subversion of our democratic system (particularly since you yourself have said you will probably never return to Ireland) but I guess the ends justify the means

Who can vote?
You must be an Irish citizen.
You must be at least 18 years old.
Your name must be on the Register of Electors.

Overseas voters

If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the Register of Electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list).

To be eligible to be included in the Register of Electors, you must:

Be at least 18 years old on the day the Register comes into force (15 February)
Have been ordinarily resident in the State on 1 September in the year preceding the coming into force of the Register.

links
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/elections_and_referenda/referenda/voting_in_a_referendum.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/elections_and_referenda/voting/registering_to_vote.html

If you are going to make use of the fact your name is still include on the register due to a mistake or your folks filling it in, please at least don't compound your hypocrisy by complaining about the Conservative American groups that are going to funnel money into the state on the NO side when you yourself are breaking the rules

comongethappy · 01-07-2014 11:13pm

RayM wrote: »

The funny thing is, you'll never hear the likes of the Iona Institute actually citing any religious reasons

That's because there are none

Muise... · 01-07-2014 11:18pm

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Actually my only concern, which I have raised in another thread, is the situation that has occurred in the UK where Marriage equality has resulted in the closure of every Catholic adoption agency, now I am sure that a popular thing among the AH crowd but remember when you Hi-five the idea of a child not being raised by a Catholic family thing you are really doing is making some poor womans already difficult decision even harder.

How does the lack of Catholic-run adoption agencies make a poor woman's decision even harder? Will she be tempted to have an abortion if there's only Quaker or Buddhist adoptions available or something?

Zed Bank · 01-07-2014 11:20pm

Woodville56 wrote: »

Where did I say that ?? Please show me ???

Not you in particular, you said decent christians voting against due to their conscience and deeply held convictions, even though ssm has absolutely fcuk all to do with them and has zero impact on their life.

Karl Stein · 01-07-2014 11:21pm

Ten of Swords wrote: »

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaRK-0W5HQI

What PR firm made that video? Who did the animation? The LGBT community and its supporters need to find out who are going to be helping these people and let everyone else know.

PopePalpatine · 01-07-2014 11:21pm

fran17 wrote: »

the problem with attempting to gather any credible data surrounding how this referendum would go is that any individual who makes the slightest leaning towards voting no in the public domain is automatically labelled a "homophobe" and a vicious attack and character assassination campaign by the pro lobby groups ensue.or likewise when the good people of Ireland are polled on the street they now feel they cannot give there true opinion because we're now told its not politically correct to disagree with this issue.
on the day of this referendum people can vote in secret with the security of knowing that they wont be vilified in the polling booth for expressing there democratic right to have a different opinion.i believe this referendum will be defeated

A prime example of playing the victim.

"DE QUARES ARE OPPRESSIN ME, DEY WON'T LET ME BEAT THEM UP!"

fleet_admiral · 01-07-2014 11:23pm

Im completely impartial on this. Im going to vote in favour simply as a personal 2 finger salute to the catholic cult

DazMarz · 01-07-2014 11:25pm

Also, I think these legends sum it up pretty well... Family Values....

ARE BULLSHÍT

NSFW Language abounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HbOYmg85sY

RDM_83 again · 01-07-2014 11:26pm

Muise... wrote: »

How does the lack of Catholic-run adoption agencies make a poor woman's decision even harder? Will she be tempted to have an abortion if there's only Quaker or Buddhist adoptions available or something?

Thats a nice sarcastic reply that pretty bloody low on empathy. You know giving up a child for adoption is an extremely traumatic situation, her faith could be extremely important to her but due to X,Y,Z circumstances she is giving away her child hopefully to a better life, shouldn't this process be made as easy as possible for her. If it gives a person a bit of comfort that they know their child will be raised in a certain faith why deprive them of that, if its not important to her there is non religious agencies.

Woodville56 · 01-07-2014 11:29pm

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im completely impartial on this. Im going to vote in favour simply as a personal 2 finger salute to the catholic cult

That's a very principalled position allrite !
I can see this referendum as a bit of a "catch all" protest vote for anti Catholic / anti organised religion factions

Canard · 01-07-2014 11:33pm

What is with this constant idea from the no side that religious beliefs != homophobia? They are basically the worst kind of homophobia. You are being homophobic for no reason other than that you were "told to" (if even). "Its my BELIEFS!!!" hurts my ears almost as much as "I'm not homophobic, I HAVE GAY FRIENDS!!!". You don't have to be Fred Phelps to be a homophobe, you know. If you're going to deprive people you don't know of rights that *~*will not infringe upon yours in any way whatsoever*~* (!!), at least accept that you are a homophobe.

I really, really hope this passes and, as has been said previously in the thread, I will be disgusted with this country if it doesn't.

Muise... · 01-07-2014 11:40pm

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Thats a nice sarcastic reply that pretty bloody low on empathy. You know giving up a child for adoption is an extremely traumatic situation, her faith could be extremely important to her but due to X,Y,Z circumstances she is giving away her child hopefully to a better life, shouldn't this process be made as easy as possible for her. If it gives a person a bit of comfort that they know their child will be raised in a certain faith why deprive them of that, if its not important to her there is non religious agencies.

Is it something you have had to do yourself, or are you just imagining it for the sake of argument?

_Redzer_ · 01-07-2014 11:42pm

Woodville56 wrote: »

That's a very principalled position allrite !
I can see this referendum as a bit of a "catch all" protest vote for anti Catholic / anti organised religion factions

No it's not, get over yourselves. This is about legalisation of a human right to which there is no logical or conclusive reason to oppose it.

Stop making yourself out to be a victim.

"Poor Catholic Church, never hurt a fly. Just wants to infringe its bigoted views over the whole country" :rolleyes:

Woodville56 · 01-07-2014 11:50pm

Canard wrote: »

What is with this constant idea from the no side that religious beliefs != homophobia? They are basically the worst kind of homophobia. You are being homophobic for no reason other than that you were "told to" (if even). "Its my BELIEFS!!!" hurts my ears almost as much as "I'm not homophobic, I HAVE GAY FRIENDS!!!". You don't have to be Fred Phelps to be a homophobe, you know. If you're going to deprive people you don't know of rights that *~*will not infringe upon yours in any way whatsoever*~* (!!), at least accept that you are a homophobe.

I really, really hope this passes and, as has been said previously in the thread, I will be disgusted with this country if it doesn't.

And the above from a supporter of a movement that whinges incessantly about intolerance ! So everyone who doesn't agree with gay marriage is a homophobe yeah ?? Peddle that yarn around the debates over the coming months and see where it gets ya !! Foot in mouth comes to mind ! I'm not committed either way at this point but ur well on the way to making my mind up for me , I can make my own mind up thank you and branding me and others undecided as homophobes won't help your cause ! Might go down well at the Pride gigs alright but the world doesn't revolve around SSM ya know !

Legs.Eleven · 01-07-2014 11:51pm

Yeah it displeases people because its a blatant breach of election law and a subversion of our democratic system (particularly since you yourself have said you will probably never return to Ireland) but I guess the ends justify the means

I know all this. I don't care.

Fact of the matter is, I can't vote in Spain outside local elections. I have no voice in the country I'm from and the country I live in. Ireland is the only country in Europe where its citizens can't vote in its elections living abroad and that is unjust. I've only voted in one general election since moving away 10 years ago and I will vote for the last time in this referendum until I move home.

I would like to return home to Ireland someday but my circumstances don't make that possible right now. I would never say never but it's not looking likely right now. I haven't turned my back on my country and care for its future.

You also can't state with total confidence that your future is in Ireland either. Few can.

I'm a law abider and a good citizen but I'll vote in that referendum next year and as I said, if that displeases some people, I don't care.

If you are going to make use of the fact your name is still include on the register due to a mistake or your folks filling it in, please at least don't compound your hypocrisy by complaining about the Conservative American groups that are going to funnel money into the state on the NO side when you yourself are breaking the rules

I haven't complained about the Iona Institute once.

You're simply gagging for an argument with me RD. Again. Strange.

Legs.Eleven · 01-07-2014 11:53pm

Muise... wrote: »

Is it something you have had to do yourself, or are you just imagining it for the sake of argument?

Total invention. Not the first time.

Woodville56 · 01-07-2014 11:53pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

No it's not, get over yourselves. This is about legalisation of a human right to which there is no logical or conclusive reason to oppose it.

Stop making yourself out to be a victim.

"Poor Catholic Church, never hurt a fly. Just wants to infringe its bigoted views over the whole country" :rolleyes:

So what else has the Catholic Church done to YOU apart from opposing gay marriage ??
Populist rant more like !!

Canard · 01-07-2014 11:54pm

Woodville56 wrote: »

And the above from a supporter of a movement that whinges incessantly about intolerance ! So everyone who doesn't agree with gay marriage is a homophobe yeah ?? Peddle that yarn around the debates over the coming months and see where it gets ya !! Foot in mouth comes to mind ! I'm not committed either way at this point but ur well on the way to making my mind up for me , I can make my own mind up thank you and branding me and others undecided as homophobes won't help your cause ! Might go down well at the Pride gigs alright but the world doesn't revolve around SSM ya know !

As with all your posts (and posts by the other homophobes), you can do nothing but whinge and moan that the people who want equality are intolerant and aggressive. Boo hoo.

:(:( Get a new line. Let me take one of yours:

Woodville56 wrote: »

Might go down well at the Pride gigs alright but the world doesn't revolve around SSM ya know !

"wer did i say dat?!!??!

:(:( "
Oh yeah, I didn't. But given that in the run-up to these votes the no side's lives revolve around blocking a yes at all costs, I found it funny that you made that remark. So what will help the cause? People have given VERY good reasons why voting yes makes sense, and why voting no does not, but by all means let's totally ignore that.

SSM Referendum Spring 2015

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