Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

Not stocking Diageo (Guinness) products is indeed a brave move and one that presents a bit of a moral dilemma for other publicans. While they're probably worried about the effect JDW will have on local pricing, they will be more than happy to see a heavyweight UK chain taking on a Goliath like Diageo.

The success of Heineken in the Irish market is mainly down to the fact that it is not a Guinness product, this more than any sponsorship or advertising was the key to it's success since the last thing the Irish pub trade wanted was yet another sector of the draught beer trade dominated by St. James Gate.

Diageo refusing to bend to the demands of JDW could open the door to Murphys getting a real foothold in the capital, something I suspect the trade would embrace with open arms.

coylemj wrote: »

That doesn't really tally with opening their first pub in the ROI in a prime location like Main St. Blackrock???

I think it was smart to pick blackrock as you don't get much trouble there, just as I never hear of much trouble in dalkey. So they might have been wary of starting out and having a reputation for all day session stag party style drinking.

I still imagine that many people who call themselves"guinness drinkers" have only tried 1 or 2 other stouts in their life, and maybe only a single pint at that.

The guinness in UK wetherspoons always seems to be 4.1% for some reason, its 4.2% here.

A spokesman for Wetherspoon said the price point sought by Diageo for the famous stout was “too high”.
“We like to sell our drink to customers at a certain price and the price that Diageo wanted us to sell the product at was too high,” a spokesman for Wetherspoon told The Irish Times today.


I'm interested in retail prices, and how they are determined.

Surely Diageo RoI simply set, or offer, a wholesale price to JDW, with associated volume rebates.

How would Diageo be involved in setting or influencing the final retail price?

JDW are free to sell Guinness at any price they like, surely?

JohnK wrote: »

I might have taken it up incorrectly but I had thought one of the things they'd be doing is bringing all their drink in via their existing distribution chain in UK/NI so they wouldn't have to deal with any local politics around pricing?

Yes, I thought that too.

If they import kegs from UK, then how would Diageo RoI be involved?

BeerNut wrote: »

That is a point about brand loyalty Lidl and Aldi sell unique and cheaper versions of the branded products you get in Tesco and Dunnes. Wetherspoon will also sell unfamiliar products at a lower price, and I doubt it will have much influence on places selling the mainstream beers.

That can only happen in the case of Blackrock if people who currently don't drink in Jack O'Rourke's and the other local pubs arrive from outside, attracted by the prospect of cheap beer, hardly something that will be welcomed by the local residents.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Years and years ago Cider had a lower VAT rate than beer, then the Government raised it, and it was the best thing that ever happened to Bulmers, instead of being a cheap drink for kids in fields, it became an expensive drink for beer gardens and pints of ice. Genius.

Publicans started charging the same price for cider as beer before the VAT rate was harmonised. This was part of a grand plan by Bulmers to raise the image of the drink. The attraction for the pub trade was that they got a higher margin since Bulmers allowed them to pocket the extra profit. So it suited the producer and the retailer and the consumer was blissfully unaware that he was being screwed because at the time cider had a lower rate of VAT than beer.

This pricing strategy helped cider to lose the tag of being a cheap drink suitable only for students so eventually even swanky hotels and yacht clubs which previously wouldn't touch cider started serving it on draught.

Of course for every new cider drinker there was one less beer drinker so the beer industry lobbied Charlie McCreevy that cider had an unfair advantage and in one of his budgets he jacked cider up to the same rate of VAT, an announcement that came as a complete surprise to me as I was then a cider drinker.

C&C (who own the Bulmers brand in Ireland) then found themselves in a quandry because the publicans wanted to hang to their extra profit and asked C&C to take the full hit which they couldn't afford to do so the end result was that cider went up in price, a classic case of being a victim of it's own success.

Geuze wrote: »

In post 450, I listed some prices from JDW in Enniskillen, April 2014.

For your information, here is a selection of prices from Wetherspoon Belfast, based on a visit during May 2014.

As the first JDW in RoI will open in Dublin and Cork, then Belfast city prices may be a better indicator of Dublin prices, than prices in Enniskillen.

All prices in stg.
Note that VAT on drink in Ireland is 23%, vs 20% in UK, but VAT on food in Ireland is lower at 9% vs 20% in UK.

Draught beer
Greene King IPA 4.1% 2.05
Abbot ale 5% 2.15
guest ales 2.40
Guinness 4.1% 2.99

Carlsberg 3.8% 2.35
Stella 4.8% 3.35
Heineken 5.0% 2.89

plus more lagers on menu, all between 2.35-3.35


Spirits

Gin = 2.40 with free tonic, 4 choices - this seems very good value

Vodka = 3.50-3.75, 4 choices

Bushmills = 2.20
Bushmills 10yr = 2.20
Bells = 2.80
Jameson = 3.55

Double spirit, 70ml according to menu, for 1.50 extra

So for 3.90 you get a double gin and tonic, that's under 5 euro - unreal value

A double Jameson is 5.05 stg.

I paid 3.70stg for a double Bushmills 10yr-old single malt

Northern Ireland "craft beer" selection = 3.05 - at least 10 bottles available

Other beer, bottled
Newcastle Brown ale = 2.70
Staropramen = 2.89
Erdinger = 2.89
Tyskie Gronie = 2.89
Leffe = 2.99

BrewDog Punk IPA 330ml = 2.89
Brooklyn lager 355ml = 2.89

Here are the STERLING prices from Belfast, May 2014.

Seaneh wrote: »

Problem is, right now in the Irish market they don't have any purchessing power, they only have 1 pub opening soon and 2 others lined up to open after that with up to 30 more to follow within a few years. Right now they don't have the ability to buy massive amounts and drive a hard price, they are just another pub buying stock.

I'd expect their UK made cask and draught ales to be a lot more keenly priced.

I presumed kegs of beer and bottles of spirits / wine could simply be added to existing orders from UK suppliers, exported from the UK ex-duty, and then add RoI duty??

So JDW could get the same low cost due to bulk purchasing as they do in the UK, and then add RoI duty.