Water meter protests

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 05:48PM

end of the road wrote: »

SF or the water charge protesters have nothing to do with me, they might be happy with having a UK system thats fine, i'm not

Problem is i think we get put in with the never pay these charges crowds, We can just clearly see what is coming down the line. And its not going to be pretty if it gets privatised, milked for profit and very little reinvestment to upgrade/run the service.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:50PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Well I'd be more than happy with privisation. Take a cost I get nothing from away from the exchequer.

the cost you get nothing from will not be taken away from the exchequer. thats just not true, but if your happy with paying more for greedy private companies to proffit from the peoples water then thats fine, but i think people should oppose it by whatever means necessary

Lemlin wrote: »

If any people are unhappy with the service, they can source a private well. That's what I'd be telling anyone who refuses to pay their bill also.
If you want something, you pay for it.

not water, it must only be covered by general taxation and must be provided only by the state to ensure its extremely affordable at all times at all costs.

sligoface · 19-06-2014 05:56PM

I genuinely think most people who are in favor of this are simply those who can afford it. Especially when they are spouting about people 'not paying their way' and 'scabbing off the rest of society', calling the protesters thugs, etc. Nothing more than thinly veiled dole bashing.

Does anyone really think that this shambles of a government and Irish Water is going to be providing you with anything more than a bill? Get a freakin clue. Your water will not be any better in five or ten years, it will just cost more.

This is just paving the way for it to be privatised and we will have no say whatsoever in what we are charged (not that we do now, but it will be worse).

As a recent college grad who is unable to get full time work, and is unable to avail of rent allowance due to unrealistic rent limits for the scheme, I rarely have anything left over after the rent and esb are paid and the bin is taken, even though I have no car, shop in Aldi, don't smoke, rarely drink. The only small luxury I have is the internet which you really need for jobseeking these days anyway. I can't afford this bill unless I get a job, it's just not possible. But my water, a basic resource needed for survival, should be cut off because I'm 'scabbing off the rest of society'? Well, that's not much of a society then is it? Not one I want to be a part of anyway. I mean does anyone really want to live in a country where the government will shut your water off if you don't pay an amount that you don't have and can't pay?

Maybe I'll cancel my internet and get rid of my TV and TV license, so I can pay for my water. Oh wait, I'll still have to pay the 'broadcast fee' just for owning a laptop and smartphone. Okay then, I'll get rid of those. Now I can afford water. But it will be kind of hard to get a job now without a computer or internet so I'll still be on the dole 'scabbing off society'. Sorry, lads.

We're still in a recession, but our government is heaping tax on vital services, charging us for 'improvements' we have yet to see, and some people are applauding this. I don't understand it. It's not about 'paying our way', it's about being lied to and coerced into giving our money away for the profit of private companies and investors. That is what those of us who are against the charge have a problem with.

The Irish government, Irish Water, our bailout masters, bondholders, shareholders are the ones scabbing off society. Not the people who are resisting the water charge. Point the fingers at the real scoungers.

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 05:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

the cost you get nothing from will not be taken away from the exchequer. thats just not true, but if your happy with paying more for greedy private companies to proffit from the peoples water then thats fine, but i think people should oppose it by whatever means necessary

not water, it must only be covered by general taxation and must be provided only by the state to ensure its extremely affordable at all times at all costs.

Doesn't the regulator set the price?

end of the road · 19-06-2014 05:59PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Problem is i think we get put in with the never pay these charges crowds, We can just clearly see what is coming down the line. And its not going to be pretty if it gets privatised, milked for profit and very little reinvestment to upgrade/run the service.

absolutely, i'm surprised people in the UK didn't do everything in their power to oppose the selling off of the peoples services but i suppose after the miners strike and the violent brutality met out by the state people were reluctant to protest to much until the poal tax, of course loony ronald probably beats that by sending the national guard in when he was governor of i think calafornia to violently crush protests leading to the murder of one man, it sounds like the murder was a good thing in his eyes as he later said something along the lines of, "if it takes a blood bath so be it" or something to that effect.

end of the road · 19-06-2014 06:01PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Doesn't the regulator set the price?

if we do have one they will do nothing and just allow every price increase

Tardful Slakerly II · 19-06-2014 06:07PM

end of the road wrote: »

the cost you get nothing from will not be taken away from the exchequer. thats just not true, but if your happy with paying more for greedy private companies to proffit from the peoples water then thats fine, but i think people should oppose it by whatever means necessary

It's farcical that people don't understand this, the naivety is shocking.

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 06:27PM

end of the road wrote: »

if we do have one they will do nothing and just allow every price increase

If? I would think that you would at least know who will be setting the prices if you're gonna argue about affordability and predict the future.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 06:37PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes and none of them answered the question.

Of course it did.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 06:38PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Then how do you know the rates will double ?

Uriel. wrote: »

I know they will.

Can you use your crystal ball and tell us who's going to win the England match tonight?

:pac:

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 06:42PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Well I'd be more than happy with privisation. Take a cost I get nothing from away from the exchequer.

Well, aren't ya just great.

Lemlin wrote: »

If any people are unhappy with the service, they can source a private well. That's what I'd be telling anyone who refuses to pay their bill also.

:pac:

Fuck sake :rolleyes:

Lemlin wrote: »

If you want something, you pay for it.

We are paying for it. We just don't want to billed extra by a private company who only cares about their profit margins and end up paying over the odds.

Tony EH · 19-06-2014 06:47PM

Tardful Slakerly II wrote: »

It's farcical that people don't understand this, the naivety is shocking.

It's naivety, encompassed in a small ideological bubble, which always small minded be it on the left, or the right.

dxhound2005 · 19-06-2014 07:21PM

sligoface wrote: »

I genuinely think most people who are in favor of this are simply those who can afford it. Especially when they are spouting about people 'not paying their way' and 'scabbing off the rest of society', calling the protesters thugs, etc. Nothing more than thinly veiled dole bashing.

Does anyone really think that this shambles of a government and Irish Water is going to be providing you with anything more than a bill? Get a freakin clue. Your water will not be any better in five or ten years, it will just cost more.

This is just paving the way for it to be privatised and we will have no say whatsoever in what we are charged (not that we do now, but it will be worse).

As a recent college grad who is unable to get full time work, and is unable to avail of rent allowance due to unrealistic rent limits for the scheme, I rarely have anything left over after the rent and esb are paid and the bin is taken, even though I have no car, shop in Aldi, don't smoke, rarely drink. The only small luxury I have is the internet which you really need for jobseeking these days anyway. I can't afford this bill unless I get a job, it's just not possible. But my water, a basic resource needed for survival, should be cut off because I'm 'scabbing off the rest of society'? Well, that's not much of a society then is it? Not one I want to be a part of anyway. I mean does anyone really want to live in a country where the government will shut your water off if you don't pay an amount that you don't have and can't pay?

Maybe I'll cancel my internet and get rid of my TV and TV license, so I can pay for my water. Oh wait, I'll still have to pay the 'broadcast fee' just for owning a laptop and smartphone. Okay then, I'll get rid of those. Now I can afford water. But it will be kind of hard to get a job now without a computer or internet so I'll still be on the dole 'scabbing off society'. Sorry, lads.

We're still in a recession, but our government is heaping tax on vital services, charging us for 'improvements' we have yet to see, and some people are applauding this. I don't understand it. It's not about 'paying our way', it's about being lied to and coerced into giving our money away for the profit of private companies and investors. That is what those of us who are against the charge have a problem with.

The Irish government, Irish Water, our bailout masters, bondholders, shareholders are the ones scabbing off society. Not the people who are resisting the water charge. Point the fingers at the real scoungers.

You have a very efficient landlord if it has already been arranged that you as the tenant will pay the water charges directly or it has been agreed that it will be added to your rent. The landlord, as the owner of the property would be the person who would get the bill next year. Did you pay the property tax directly as well, or was it added to your rent?

It won't be an issue for another six months anyway and by then you might have secured full time employment. As a university graduate your prospects are better than for non graduates.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 07:52PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Of course it did.

Yes, you agreed with me that the new system of charges will result in fairness. It will mean both rural and urban dwellers are paying direct water charges rather than just rural dwellers.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 07:59PM

sligoface wrote: »

I genuinely think most people who are in favor of this are simply those who can afford it. Especially when they are spouting about people 'not paying their way' and 'scabbing off the rest of society', calling the protesters thugs, etc. Nothing more than thinly veiled dole bashing.

Does anyone really think that this shambles of a government and Irish Water is going to be providing you with anything more than a bill? Get a freakin clue. Your water will not be any better in five or ten years, it will just cost more.

This is just paving the way for it to be privatised and we will have no say whatsoever in what we are charged (not that we do now, but it will be worse).

As a recent college grad who is unable to get full time work, and is unable to avail of rent allowance due to unrealistic rent limits for the scheme, I rarely have anything left over after the rent and esb are paid and the bin is taken, even though I have no car, shop in Aldi, don't smoke, rarely drink. The only small luxury I have is the internet which you really need for jobseeking these days anyway. I can't afford this bill unless I get a job, it's just not possible. But my water, a basic resource needed for survival, should be cut off because I'm 'scabbing off the rest of society'? Well, that's not much of a society then is it? Not one I want to be a part of anyway. I mean does anyone really want to live in a country where the government will shut your water off if you don't pay an amount that you don't have and can't pay?

Maybe I'll cancel my internet and get rid of my TV and TV license, so I can pay for my water. Oh wait, I'll still have to pay the 'broadcast fee' just for owning a laptop and smartphone. Okay then, I'll get rid of those. Now I can afford water. But it will be kind of hard to get a job now without a computer or internet so I'll still be on the dole 'scabbing off society'. Sorry, lads.

We're still in a recession, but our government is heaping tax on vital services, charging us for 'improvements' we have yet to see, and some people are applauding this. I don't understand it. It's not about 'paying our way', it's about being lied to and coerced into giving our money away for the profit of private companies and investors. That is what those of us who are against the charge have a problem with.

The Irish government, Irish Water, our bailout masters, bondholders, shareholders are the ones scabbing off society. Not the people who are resisting the water charge. Point the fingers at the real scoungers.

So you're making ends meet like most Irish people. If you're unhappy with the country and government, as a graduate you would have great prospects abroad so why not emigrate?

Also, I'm tired of reading this bull about "private companies and investors". The anti water charge camp have no feasible argument to back up their point so they've created one about privatisation.

Btw, you say who wants to live in a country where..... in any other country you will pay direct water charges.

shedweller · 19-06-2014 09:05PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Also, if a company did triple prices, the prices would be extortionate and people would merely move to private wells.

Not in a housing estate (etc etc) they wont!

Sellecks_Tache · 19-06-2014 09:09PM

I wonder why we still bother with modern capitalist society and everything it entails. Water charges, TV licence, USC, PRSI, inflated motor tax, Property tax, Mandatory insurance premiums, all while revelling in an economy with 200 billion in National debt. Where is all this money going ?

Back to some good 'ol agrarian society and some sweat off your brow I say.

SaveOurLyric · 19-06-2014 09:45PM

Sellecks_Tache wrote: »

I wonder why we still bother with modern capitalist society and everything it entails. Water charges, TV licence, USC, PRSI, inflated motor tax, Property tax, Mandatory insurance premiums, all while revelling in an economy with 200 billion in National debt. Where is all this money going ?

You spent it.

Banjo String · 19-06-2014 10:09PM

Lemlin wrote: »

The human right to water and sanitation states:

Water can therefore be charged for. If people are unwilling to pay, it should be cut off as per any service. When I built a house, it was up to me to ensure it had a water supply and I pay for the maintenance of same. If others aren't willing to pay, they shouldn't be provided with the service.

Who forced you to build in a rural area, not connected to the mains btw?

You remind me in the man who buys a house next door to the dump and complains constantly about the smell to the dump owners. You (prob) could have bought in an urban areas but you didn't.

Get over it.

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 10:37PM

Banjo String wrote: »

Who forced you to build in a rural area, not connected to the mains btw?

You remind me in the man who buys a house next door to the dump and complains constantly about the smell to the dump owners. You (prob) could have bought in an urban areas but you didn't.

Get over it.

My point is that paying for water is nothing new. Rural people have been doing it for years.

I chose to build here but some have to live in sparsely populated areas out of necessity e.g. Farmers.

I'd also point out I'm not complaining about anything. You and others are whinging about paying for a service which is provided.

I got over water charges long ago. How about you get over it and pay your way too.

Uriel. · 19-06-2014 10:55PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Can you use your crystal ball and tell us who's going to win the England match tonight?

:pac:

No crystal ball was required

end of the road · 19-06-2014 11:13PM

Lemlin wrote: »

My point is that paying for water is nothing new. Rural people have been doing it for years.

I chose to build here but some have to live in sparsely populated areas out of necessity e.g. Farmers.

I'd also point out I'm not complaining about anything. You and others are whinging about paying for a service which is provided.

I got over water charges long ago. How about you get over it and pay your way too.

he does pay his way, via tax

Lemlin · 19-06-2014 11:39PM

end of the road wrote: »

he does pay his way, via tax

And, as I've pointed out on numerous occasions, I and others pay our way twice if that's your opinion.

The new direct charge system evens the playing field for both rural and urban dwellers.

sligoface · 20-06-2014 01:24AM

Lemlin wrote: »

So you're making ends meet like most Irish people. If you're unhappy with the country and government, as a graduate you would have great prospects abroad so why not emigrate?

Also, I'm tired of reading this bull about "private companies and investors". The anti water charge camp have no feasible argument to back up their point so they've created one about privatisation.

Btw, you say who wants to live in a country where..... in any other country you will pay direct water charges.

Ah sure, everyone who can't afford or doesn't want to pay new extortionate taxes should just leave. To heck with trying to expect fairness in the democratic country you were born in and are supposed so have a say in. You would fit right in with Enda and his pals.

If I can't afford to pay an extra 5 euro a week tax, where am I going to get the money to emigrate? If I could I would leave this joke of a place in a hearbeat. Do you think I haven't considered that option or something? Me and my family emigrated to the US when I was a child. It didn't solve everything. I had to move back because I couldn't afford college.

I didn't say I don't want to live in a country where you have to pay for water, you completely twisted what I wrote. I said I don't want to live in a society where people think that a vital reource like water should be denied to those who can't afford to pay for it. In the US I paid for water. But the thing was... You could get a job to pay for it! Here there is no work and yet the government are trying to take money I don't have for something I cannot do without.

It is directly related to our debts and private companies get your head out of the sand. Why didn't this come in until after we had to get bailed out then? Never heard a word about a water charge during the boom years. No feasible argument? How about the fact that people are still struggling due to the recession and don't have the ability to pay whatever charges the government dream up? It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Banjo String · 20-06-2014 06:41AM

Lemlin wrote: »

My point is that paying for water is nothing new. Rural people have been doing it for years.

I chose to build here but some have to live in sparsely populated areas out of necessity e.g. Farmers.

You keep coming back to this rural people have been paying it for years thing, that's the choice rural home owners made when deciding to live rural I'm afraid.

To even up the score with city dwellers (such as Dublin) maybe a toll should be placed on your main road? If for no other reason than to even up the score. (Dubs halve been faced with no less than 3 tolled roads afaik) I mean they have been paying motor tax, fuel tax, and tolls.

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd also point out I'm not complaining about anything. You and others are whinging about paying for a service which is provided.

Well one might interpret that you are complaining about some folk 'not currently paying for their water' despite the fact they are through the current taxation model.

It could be argued that city dwellers might actually be paying more than you, and therefore subsidising you through higher taxation (higher salaries, higher commercial rates greater density of population and so on)

Lemlin wrote: »

I got over water charges long ago. How about you get over it and pay your way too.

It sounds to me like you may well have accepted that you have to fund a water system (1600 per year) due to where you've chosen to live, much like I've accepted the hum of the N7 which is not too far from where I live (which was there when I bought)

I am currently paying for my water too incidentally. I keep reminding you of this fact.

(we can do this all day)

Barely There · 20-06-2014 07:46AM

sligoface wrote: »

I didn't say I don't want to live in a country where you have to pay for water, you completely twisted what I wrote. I said I don't want to live in a society where people think that a vital reource like water should be denied to those who can't afford to pay for it. In the US I paid for water. But the thing was... You could get a job to pay for it! Here there is no work and yet the government are trying to take money I don't have for something I cannot do without.

So now your gripe is that you can't get a job to pay your water charge?

Seems to me your looking for any excuse not to pay increased taxes.

Nobody's happy with increased taxes or cuts in services, but the current situation is unsustainable and the all whinging from the usual suspects ain't gonna change that fact anytime soon.

keithclancy · 20-06-2014 07:48AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You can refuse to have a meter on your private property. People are fine with established utilities meters but many are not fine with these ones. I can't see how freezing would be an issue anyway if it’s that cold the whole pipe system would be frozen.

That's not really a reason.

Mine is inside for example

I can read it to see my usage
I can submit a meter reading myself so less resources are required to manually read the meters
Less problems with digging up roads and so on
Less risk of freezing in the winter

To have clean running potable water running into my house, I don't really expect to have it for free.

They should have at least allowed the option for an installation inside the property, I know I would prefer that, than them digging a hole and blocking up my driveway.

Uriel. · 20-06-2014 08:13AM

Banjo String wrote: »

You keep coming back to this rural people have been paying it for years thing, that's the choice rural home owners made when deciding to live rural I'm afraid.

To even up the score with city dwellers (such as Dublin) maybe a toll should be placed on your main road? If for no other reason than to even up the score. (Dubs halve been faced with no less than 3 tolled roads afaik) I mean they have been paying motor tax, fuel tax, and tolls.

Well one might interpret that you are complaining about some folk 'not currently paying for their water' despite the fact they are through the current taxation model.

It could be argued that city dwellers might actually be paying more than you, and therefore subsidising you through higher taxation (higher salaries, higher commercial rates greater density of population and so on)

It sounds to me like you may well have accepted that you have to fund a water system (1600 per year) due to where you've chosen to live, much like I've accepted the hum of the N7 which is not too far from where I live (which was there when I bought)

I am currently paying for my water too incidentally. I keep reminding you of this fact.

(we can do this all day)

You are currently paying taxes. Some of which goes towards Paying for water infrastructure. But we, including you, are not paying enough taxes to fund our services, including water. Instead, we are borrowing to pay for our services. This is not sustainable.

Government policy has, for some time, been to decrease reliance on general taxation through the paye system and instead to generate state revenue via a broader more sustainable tax system, including direct charges for certain services.

Let's not also forget the EU Law requires us to have pay per use water charges. Of course it's the "will" of the "people" to leave the EU, which can easily be done over night and of course we'd be far better off. Nothing like turning back to our yokel past and reliving the glory days of peaceful, prosperous, equal Ireland

Jester252 · 20-06-2014 08:34AM

FYI we don't pay a water tax already. So stop pretending we do, Dublin says no.

Barely There · 20-06-2014 08:46AM

Jester252 wrote: »

FYI we don't pay a water tax already. So stop pretending we do, Dublin says no.

I'm afraid just saying 'no' isn't an option unless you're a 2 year old in the middle of a temper tantrum.

Pleas post up your alternatives means of bridging our budget deficit in as much detail as your able to manage so we can assess your proposals

Water meter protests

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