Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

Spring Onion · 06-06-2014 9:55pm

aloyisious wrote: »

One did not (unfortunately) ask questions when alkward situations arose. It was seen as insolence (getting above one's station). The only clergy I know of that questioned dogma or authority are Pastor Niemoller and Father Bernard Lynch.

Fair enough but looking at the spectrum of evil within the Roman organisation, there should have been many priests/nuns pushing for reform/change - was dealing with this crap their "calling". They still haven't opened up if these stories are anything to go by. Look at the leader of the Roman catholic church in Ireland - Sean Brady - what does that tell you? The lesson for all priests is that protecting the church via oaths of silence on abuse children achieves power. He let Smyth continue his reign of abuse for many years.

FouxDaFaFa · 06-06-2014 10:19pm

How pitiful is it that a tabloid newspaper (the Mail on Sunday) is facter to act than the Gardaí in scanning the field where the bodies are?

I've always complained that the Daily Mail group are terrible, vile vultures who come stomping all over people's personal tragedy and grief but in this case, I think a little stomping is required to find the truth.

vibe666 · 06-06-2014 10:26pm

Can't believe the neck on this lot! :eek: http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/the-stench-of-an-irish-rat/

PopePalpatine · 06-06-2014 10:50pm

vibe666 wrote: »

Can't believe the neck on this lot! :eek: http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/the-stench-of-an-irish-rat/

I've fucking had it with these apologist cunts.

It's highly likely that they have never experienced what the Church has inflicted upon the women and children of this country. They are devoid of empathy. They can't - or more likely, won't - imagine the beatings inflicted upon nuns and priests who you'd swear were Nazis who escaped the advancing Red Army and managed to put on a convincing Irish accent.

To see people scream "ANTI-CATHOLIC AGENDA!!!!", it makes my blood fucking boil. It makes me sick to imagine what they would have done 40 years ago if they overheard their daughter worry aloud about missing a period. It makes me want to punch them in the fucking face.

Bannasidhe · 06-06-2014 10:55pm

vibe666 wrote: »

Can't believe the neck on this lot! :eek: http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/the-stench-of-an-irish-rat/

'Furthermore, prior to the 1960′s, it was commonly believed that the corpses of those who died from infectious disease were a source of epidemic. Even today, there is an effort underway on the part of humanitarian organizations to educate disaster relief workers who still believe as much. It’s entirely possible, therefore, that the mass grave was used as an attempt to keep infection levels in check.'

There is a link on his web page to contact Mr Louie Verrecchio - author of the above.

I urge people to keep it civil and not provide such apologists with an excuse to play the victim card.

Lingua Franca · 06-06-2014 10:57pm

Total speculation ("And while allegations of “malnutrition” and “mistreatment” are being tossed about with reckless abandon, no supporting documentation has been provided that even hints at abuse at the hands of the nuns.") and people praising them in the comments for "fact-checking and thinking."

Pherekydes · 06-06-2014 10:59pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is a link on his web page to contact Mr Louie Verrecchio - author of the above.

I urge people to keep it civil and not provide such apologists with an excuse to play the victim card.

Fcuk that. He's the one who used the word 'rat'.

Bannasidhe · 06-06-2014 11:03pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

Fcuk that. He's the one who used the word 'rat'.

All the more reason not to demean ourselves by stooping to his gutter level.

Bannasidhe · 06-06-2014 11:12pm

A time-line of the Tuam Mother and Child home.

https://storify.com/Limerick1914/children-s-home-in-tuam-1920s-1960s

Deep rage calming breathes will be required.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 06-06-2014 11:14pm

Lingua Franca wrote: »

He's saying that a government official overstepping their brief to stop babies from dying of gastroenteritis is exactly the same as as men putting women into the laundries and the churches treating them like crap, because said government official was also male.

I think he's actually refuting the simplistic and self-serving analysis being presented by another poster.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I said you had a point.

Not that I intend enter into a discussion with you while you pursue what ever your current agenda is.

Sure, all I was doing was pointing out where you were dissembling. What's to discuss?

Obliq wrote: »

Yes, but what the hell is it about the Irish psyche that enables us to be brainwashed by an invasive religion?

That's close to the nub of it. There's something about Catholicism that fit, as a way of underwriting the way that people wanted things to be.

Because, exactly as the article linked above says, the core issue of high infant mortality in these institutions was a matter of public debate at the time. So too was the generally high infant and maternal mortality which was getting worse, following independence. The Mother and Child Scheme wasn't just a random political pledge, like the current under 6 medical card. It was actually addressing a pressing and persistent issue. This is Senator Rowlette's speech in 1937

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail1937040700026#N137

There is another point in connection with infant mortality to which I think it right to draw the attention of the House and that is the alarming mortality amongst illegitimate children. The matter does not come under the Minister's report to-day, but I am basing my remarks on the last report of the Department. In the year 1934-5 there were 2,030 illegitimate children born, and 538 died under the age of one year. That is to say, the mortality amongst illegitimate children was something like 26 per cent., while the general mortality all over the country was 7 per cent. That is a shocking position in a Christian country and I draw the attention of the House to the demand that was made in the report of the Department on this topic for 1934-35:

“This mortality rate is out of all proportion to the corresponding rate in respect of legitimate infants and calls for investigation as to its causes and as to what measures should be taken to effect a reduction in this abnormal mortality.”

That is a sentiment with which I think we are all in thorough sympathy and I press upon the Minister to consider inaugurating such an investigation, whether by a committee or by officers of his Department if he can spare them, because it is a shocking comment on the civilisation of the country, that a child, unfortunate enough in other respects to be born illegitimately, has four times a greater prospect of dying in the first year than the ordinary child.

In other words, this issue was officially reported on and publically debated at the time it was happening. The idea that this was all some dark secret that could not be mentioned is part of the myth-making.

I'd agree there's a need to grapple with the whole context, and accept that the society that we're talking about is the one that produced us. One barrier to the kind of debate needed is the perennial rush to judgment. Discussion always takes second place to advocacy of a position. Generally, Irish people don't actually understand why you'd contribute to a discussion unless you were trying to advance your own position. They regard it as insane that people would entertain or explore ideas that might actually undermine their personal situation.

Obliq · 06-06-2014 11:22pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I think he's actually refuting the simplistic and self-serving analysis being presented by another poster

Jaysus, well done on fooling at least two posters then :-/ But anyone who calls themselves after a culture battleship has to be more oblique than me...

Generally, Irish people don't actually understand why you'd contribute to a discussion unless you were trying to advance your own position. They regard it as insane that people would entertain or explore ideas that might actually undermine their personal situation.

As usual, I nearly agree with you except for the generalisations. Which in a discussion usually serve to advance the generaliser's position.

Bannasidhe · 07-06-2014 12:01am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

A time-line of the Tuam Mother and Child home.

https://storify.com/Limerick1914/children-s-home-in-tuam-1920s-1960s

Deep rage calming breathes will be required.

Did some calculations as this piece from the Connacht Tribune gives us some solid figures to work from

Tuam Mother and Child Home was expected to received about £3,000 (equivalent to £164,265.90/€ 202,308 today) in 1927/8 from the Health Board for the care of 114 'inmates' consisting of 22 women and 92 children.

The women also worked doing laundry which generated more income.
The Order owned the property and, as far as I can determine, also had a farm which produced produce for the home with the surplus sold - am currently researching this.

Also keep in mind that the staffing costs would have been minimal as nuns didn't get wages.

nagirrac · 07-06-2014 12:52am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did some calculations as this piece from the Connacht Tribune gives us some solid figures to work from

Tuam Mother and Child Home was expected to received about £3,000 (equivalent to £164,265.90/€ 202,308 today) in 1927/8 from the Health Board for the care of 114 'inmates' consisting of 22 women and 92 children.

The number of "inmates" had ballooned to 333 by 1944 according to a Health Board inspection report, in a building designed for 243. Among the many contributing factors here, especially when it comes to infectious diseases, was likely to be overcrowding. One wonder if the contract from the Dept of Health was ever increased, something worth investigation. Perhaps it wasn't given the economic state of the country then, economic war, effects of great depression, etc. 202.3K translates to 600 per "inmate" per annum, or 11 Euro a week in today's money.

One of the pertinent questions here is why did the population in the home swell by a factor of 3 in just over a decade, at a time when I believe the overall population in the country was declining.

tawnyowl · 07-06-2014 1:16am

vibe666 wrote: »

Can't believe the neck on this lot! :eek: http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/the-stench-of-an-irish-rat/

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

tawnyowl · 07-06-2014 1:25am

It took David Quinn a while to respond to the revelations. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/at-some-point-christianity-here-became-more-about-punishment-than-forgiveness-30333644.html

Starring whataboutery and a grudging admission that there was probably something wrong about the situation.

I gather Waters was on Vincent Browne a night or two ago, defending the nuns. I didn't see it, but given his past record that's probably good for my blood pressure!

Bannasidhe · 07-06-2014 2:01am

nagirrac wrote: »

The number of "inmates" had ballooned to 333 by 1944 according to a Health Board inspection report, in a building designed for 243. Among the many contributing factors here, especially when it comes to infectious diseases, was likely to be overcrowding. One wonder if the contract from the Dept of Health was ever increased, something worth investigation. Perhaps it wasn't given the economic state of the country then, economic war, effects of great depression, etc. 202.3K translates to 600 per "inmate" per annum, or 11 Euro a week in today's money.

It was a possibility but it seems no cigar as this report from The Tuam Herald 24/9/1938 would indicate the amount paid did not remain static.

The report makes it clear that the cost of maintaining the children is met out of the rates and the figure given is £8,000 a year total for 138 children. Note they are specifically discussing only the children and no mention is made of the women.

My reading of this would lead me to conclude that as the amount paid for the maintenance of 92 children in 1927 was 2,392 (based on that £26 per year per child) but 138 children cost £8,000 in 1938 the amount paid per child per year had increased to around £57 - or over 100% in 11 years.

That is the equivalent of £3,343.02/€ 4,1166 per child per year* or a total of £469,196.00/€ 577,7680.

That amounts to the equivalent of over half a million euro a year to care for 138 children.

*The State currently pays €1,549.6 a year per child in Social Welfare allowances such as LPA/JSB/JSA.

The following costs were also met out of the rates:
Chaplain - £150 pa
Doctor - £ 90 pa
All external maintenance of the property and building works.
Coffins - sent out to tender.

Esel · 07-06-2014 2:32am

I have not read most of this thread, but I am appalled by the issue. However, I do have to wonder about the timing...

Is it just a coincidence that this has come to attention just after the election results? Parties are looking at future decimation (at least) or even temporary rejection by the permanent electorate (the PE, aka those who almost always vote). The PE used to be relied on to vote on Party lines - up to the crash at least... Since then, however, all bets are off. The Party (or Parties...) is at risk now. How can it be saved? One way would be to bring up an issue that cannot be argued against; an issue that we ( i.e the Party) are seen to be addressing post-haste.

An alternative view might be that another Party might see this issue as a good means to wrong-foot those temporarily in power.

As I said at the start of this post, I am appalled by this issue. Appalled, but not surprised.

Synchronicity; serendipity... the news that does not get reported is often the news that you need to hear/read.

Bannasidhe · 07-06-2014 2:39am

Esel wrote: »

I have not read most of this thread, but I am appalled by the issue. However, I do have to wonder about the timing...

Is it just a coincidence that this has come to attention just after the election results? Parties are looking at future decimation (at least) or even temporary rejection by the permanent electorate (the PE, aka those who almost always vote). The PE used to be relied on to vote on Party lines - up to the crash at least... Since then, however, all bets are off. The Party (or Parties...) is at risk now. How can it be saved? One way would be to bring up an issue that cannot be argued against; an issue that we ( i.e the Party) are seen to be addressing post-haste.

An alternative view might be that another Party might see this issue as a good means to wrong-foot those temporarily in power.

As I said at the start of this post, I am appalled by this issue. Appalled, but not surprised.

Synchronicity; serendipity... the news that does not get reported is often the news that you need to hear/read.

A file detailing all of this was sent to Frances Fitzgerald when she was Minister for Children over a year ago and no action was taken.

If you want to see political conspiracies ask why nothing was done then.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 07-06-2014 2:52am

A repulsive article from the Irish Times, which despicably avoids jumping on the outrage bandwagon. This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow Catholics write for your newspaper.

It has the temerity to suggest that the headlines stating that 800 bodies were found in a septic tank were inaccurate and made up.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393?page=1

Catherine Corless, a local historian in Co Galway, tells The Irish Times. “I never said to anyone that 800 bodies were dumped in a septic tank. That did not come from me at any point. They are not my words.”

<...>

“Tell us the truth about the children dumped in Galway’s mass graves” – The Guardian.

“Bodies of 800 babies, long-dead, found in septic tank at former Irish home for unwed mothers” – The Washington Post.

“Nearly 800 dead babies found in septic tank in Ireland” – Al Jazeera.

“800 skeletons of babies found inside tank at former Irish home for unwed mothers” – New York Daily News.

“Almost 800 ‘forgotten’ Irish children dumped in septic tank mass grave at Catholic home” – ABC News, Australia.

<...>

The children’s names, ages, places of birth and causes of death were recorded. The average number of deaths over the 36-year period was just over 22 a year. The information recorded on these State- issued certificates has been seen by The Irish Times; the children are marked as having died variously of tuberculosis, convulsions, measles, whooping cough, influenza, bronchitis and meningitis, among other illnesses.

<...>

Sweeney was 10 in 1975, and the friend he was with on that day, Frannie Hopkins, was 12. <...>

Between them the boys levered up the slab. “There were skeletons thrown in there. They were all this way and that way. They weren’t wrapped in anything, and there were no coffins,” he says. “But there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number. I don’t know where the papers got that.” How many skeletons does he believe there were? “About 20.”

<...>

She believes that what Sweeney and Hopkins found was the former sewage tank, which she had previously referred to in her article as a crypt. It seems this is where the story of “800 skeletons dumped in a septic tank” has subsequently come from.

<...>

Even if a number of children are indeed interred in what was once a sewage tank, horrific as that thought is, there cannot be 796 of them. The public water scheme came to Tuam in 1937. Between 1925, when the home opened, and 1937 the tank remained in use. During that period 204 children died at the home. Corless admits that it now seems impossible to her that more than 200 bodies could have been put in a working sewage tank.

<...>

Corless has proved that 796 children died while at St Mary’s in Tuam – a shameful statistic that would not have been known without her years of dedicated work. It seems clear that at least some of these children lie in the small plot of land at the back of the Dublin Road housing estate. Excavation might be the only way to be sure.

Bannasidhe · 07-06-2014 3:28am

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

A repulsive article from the Irish Times, which despicably avoids jumping on the outrage bandwagon. This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow Catholics write for your newspaper.

It has the temerity to suggest that the headlines stating that 800 bodies were found in a septic tank were inaccurate and made up.

I suggest you immediately write a strongly worded letter to every single media outlet which engaged in sensationalism and point out the error of their ways.

Then you can write to the Irish Times and congratulate them on both their objectivity and liberalism in allowing a persecuted and despised minority to grace the pages of their worthy publication.

jank · 07-06-2014 3:53am

daveohdave wrote: »

It is, but you can understand why they would be emotional, and now is not the time to be playing down what _did_ happen in Bessborough, and of course Tuam.

To be honest, and I say this as someone that's extremely open-minded, the attempts by others in this thread to make light of these affairs frankly disgusts me -- I literally think those people are disgusting creatures.

Been busy lately so only coming to this point now.

I do not think making sarcastic comments about how 'lucky' one is not to have been raped or abused when they were born in an institution that have absued others... especially when I have volunteered such information freely (some people on boards know me personally) is called for.

Do you honestly think that I have never thought about it? Really? Do you honestly think that these stories have made me examine my own up bringing, where the nuns that were nice and kind to me one minute, closed the door and abused someone else the next minute. You honestly think this does not effect me at all on a personal level? Are you that emotionally naive?

Would you make the same comment to someone who came out of a church institution who only suffered 'mild abuse' and say 'sure if could have been much worse, you were never raped...'.

I preference all this by saying a) I did not raise the issue of the Bessberough mother and baby home initially (Bannasidhe did that) b) have called for a full independent inquiry into the Tuam babies discovery c) have called for the truth to come out about any and all issues that haunt our past. When I mean the truth I mean the unvarnished truth, be it good or bad.

My experience was thankfully positive, that is my truth. I also acknowledge people have had terrible times in these places and that is of course the truth as well. Only when we get all the stories out, good or bad will we get the true picture of the actual truth.

pauldla · 07-06-2014 5:08am

Even the Global Times (the CCPs International paper) has picked up the story.

Irish Church horrified by mass child grave

Not sure yet if it's being covered in the Chinese media as such, though I doubt it very much as Ireland is a bit off the radar as far as the Chinese are concerned. It's fit into their traditional news format though (Story 1: The leaders are busy. Story 2: The people are happy.Story 3: Foreign countries suck).

Lingua Franca · 07-06-2014 5:10am

Mymistake, I went into a rant based on the first page of an article not realising that there were a few more.

jank · 07-06-2014 5:19am

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

A repulsive article from the Irish Times, which despicably avoids jumping on the outrage bandwagon. This is the kind of thing that happens when you allow Catholics write for your newspaper.

It has the temerity to suggest that the headlines stating that 800 bodies were found in a septic tank were inaccurate and made up.

This was obvious to anyone who actually read the details of the story.
Nowhere is it verified that 800 babies were/are dumped in the septic tank.

The local historian Catherine Corless (who did a great job in fairness, paying money out of her own pocket to get the death certs) came up with with the figure of 796 babies that died over a 36 year period.

Then of course there was the discovery of bones under a concrete slab 40 years ago. The media put 1 + 1 together and got 3. Once the story got legs there was nothing one could do to say "hang on whats the truth here" People who have asked basic simple questions about this have been accused of defending the RCC of murder and downplaying the 'fact' of 800 babies being dumped into a septic tank.

Between them the boys levered up the slab. “There were skeletons thrown in there. They were all this way and that way. They weren’t wrapped in anything, and there were no coffins,” he says. “But there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number. I don’t know where the papers got that.” How many skeletons does he believe there were? “About 20.”

Even if a number of children are indeed interred in what was once a sewage tank, horrific as that thought is, there cannot be 796 of them. The public water scheme came to Tuam in 1937. Between 1925, when the home opened, and 1937 the tank remained in use. During that period 204 children died at the home. Corless admits that it now seems impossible to her that more than 200 bodies could have been put in a working sewage tank.

Corless has proved that 796 children died while at St Mary’s in Tuam – a shameful statistic that would not have been known without her years of dedicated work. It seems clear that at least some of these children lie in the small plot of land at the back of the Dublin Road housing estate. Excavation might be the only way to be sure. “Our intention in setting up this committee was not excavation,” she says, “but I would welcome the truth.”

It should still be investigated of course and the truth brought to bear. We need the truth not conjecture.

Nodin · 07-06-2014 5:49am

jank wrote: »

This was obvious to anyone who actually read the details of the story.
Nowhere is it verified that 800 babies were/are dumped in the septic tank.

The local historian Catherine Corless (who did a great job in fairness, paying money out of her own pocket to get the death certs) came up with with the figure of 796 babies that died over a 36 year period.

Then of course there was the discovery of bones under a concrete slab 40 years ago. The media put 1 + 1 together and got 3. Once the story got legs there was nothing one could do to say "hang on whats the truth here" People who have asked basic simple questions about this have been accused of defending the RCC of murder and downplaying the 'fact' of 800 babies being dumped into a septic tank.

.

The death rates, however, were not an invention, nor are they isolated to this one home. Had the Government launched an enquiry when these issues first surfaced, rather than adopt the usual approaching of burying it and hoping it goes away, there might be less heat and more light.
http://www.thejournal.ie/morality-mother-and-baby-homes-1029062-Aug2013/

And a proper enquiry at that
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0205/502368-vatican-abuse/

Turtwig · 07-06-2014 5:51am

Jank has a very good point. On the face of it it doesn't appear good. I've followed the media long enough to know that they parrot data and nothing more. If we're missing a key bit of data or this historian made a mistake then it might be a story most people seem to be anticipating it good be worse. Or it could better.

I don't with agree with janks assessment that everyone who is keeping an open mind is downplaying this. I've seen far too much whataboutery in an attempt to absolve the Catholic institutions of relative wrongdoing were an atrocity committed.

The facts are at the moment this does not look good. We won't even be surprised if this the only incident that comes to light. As gvn said there's probably dozens of skeletons in these institutions past waiting to be unearthed. But as things stand all there is is the appearance of a disgusting outcome. It still has to be objectively verified and that will take some time.

Unfortunately in a world where causes of plane crashes must be known days after the crash, most people will already have made up their minds over what happened. Now, in this particular case I have faith the conclusion is mostly right. But I hate this path of conclusions from conjecture that social media and lazy ass journalism provide.

jank · 07-06-2014 6:57am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

*The State currently pays €1,549.6 a year per child in Social Welfare allowances such as LPA/JSB/JSA.

That is really not a valid comparison as a child in receipt of those allowances has a parent who generally provides and/or cares for them them by buying clothes/food/provides housing/heat/transportation to school etc. full time.

A more valid comparison would be finding out how much the HSE spends per child today that is in their own full time care.

http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Child_Welfare_Protection/childrenincare.htm

The above is a link to the department of children and youth affairs that gives a break down on numbers but can't see anything on costs. No doubt they are buried somewhere in some Oireachtas committee report.

40now · 07-06-2014 6:59am

Thanks for the Link.

Obliq · 07-06-2014 7:08am

Here's some more speculation now though...well, more like curiosity really. I wonder how many small bodies a large sceptic tank could process a year? I know mine (small), even when it wasn't working great could do 4 or 5.....CHICKENS people. Chicken carcasses.

Because nobody thought that couldn't be done, did they? Or thought that any body that went into a working tank would still be there.....? Because I'm afraid that a large, working sceptic tank is an ideal place to make a small body disappear completely, but for parts of the heavier bones.

However, I don't think that without eyewitness accounts we'll actually ever know where they buried, interred, dropped the 800 approx children that died over the course of the records, but I'm very happy to see us tackling this as a nation and being publicly horrified about what that very recent society (that bred us directly) allowed to happen. Where/when will our institutionalised deference to the RCC end? Hopefully now.

Ps. Jank, thanks for the input of your personal experiences. It's good to know that the unmarried Irish mother and baby experience wasn't always a horror show.

jank · 07-06-2014 7:14am

Nodin wrote: »

The death rates, however, were not an invention, nor are they isolated to this one home. Had the Government launched an enquiry when these issues first surfaced, rather than adopt the usual approaching of burying it and hoping it goes away, there might be less heat and more light.
http://www.thejournal.ie/morality-mother-and-baby-homes-1029062-Aug2013/

And a proper enquiry at that
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0205/502368-vatican-abuse/

I agree, the death rates are there for all to see and should be investigated. However, a lot of these death rates were already of public record but the media didn't really go for it. Old statistics don't sell newspapers or get clicks.

Why? Words like 'Mass Grave', 'Murder', '800 Dumped, 'Septic Tank' make a great headline and as we have seen this headline has spread around the world. Yet, as we are leaning now it appears a false narrative and untrue (for now at least, until investigated).

I think it says more about the state of our modern society and media where tidbits of information are cobbled together to make a story, a story that will sell where the truth is then a distant cousin.

Sure, look at the title of this thread and the same one in AH. You honestly think that these threads would have the same traction if it were one of mere statistics/ratio's without add strong emotive language like 'Mass Grave'?

Can a Mod edit the title to show some clarity?

Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

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